I'm not sure, but just a quick eyeball seems to confirm that Mills has an arm superior to what Tua has.
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Davis Mills getting no respect
- Thread starter SnakeEyes
- Start date
Tell me how many drives did Mills have in the 4th qtr and the score/results of those drives and what ended those drives.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Lol... Not even close. Mills can make every single throw in the book and he can do it on the run. Tua cannot throw a deep cross on the run, for example. His arm is probably a little below NFL average, but he's accurate and when he gets the ball out on time and in rhythm, he's effective. But Tua does not have a strong arm by NFL standards.
Yes sir just as I said Mills is obviously a superior talent to the noodle-arm in Miami.
Just give me Tyreck Hill for a couple games with D- Mills.
I'd be happy with Waddle or Hill
Texansballer74
The Marine
Mills is not no superior talent to Tua. Some of people are smoking if you truly believe that crap. Lol too freaking funny. And if we had Hills you guys would be complaining about how he’s only throwing to him verses spreading the freaking football around.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Not sure about superior talent overall (yet to be determined), but 10000% much better arm talent in terms of the ability to make all NFL throws. Tua excels in the timing passing game, so that's a big part of it also. We shall see. Tua has a noodle arm by NFL standards though and if he was in Pep's offense here and had to stand and read progressions in the pocket, I don't believe he would be better than Mills at all. Tua's game is predicated on timing and getting the ball out, which is why he's doing well because he has 2 dynamic WRs that can separate off the defender quickly.
Not comparing Tua to Mills.
How does Tua look this yr compared to last yr?
Having elite weapons matters.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That is not the only reason why he’s playing good football. He’s healthy, the system is built around him and coaching is also making it easy for him. But most of all his ability to extend plays. We don’t have that here in Houston anymore.
Tua extends plays? I always thought of him as more of a pocket passer.
Was he extending plays last yr? If he was he certainly wasn't as succesful at it as this yr and he still had Waddle/Giesiki to work with last yr. What's the difference, maybe not all of this is the addition of Hill, but I would say a lot of Tua's improvement is directly related to the addition of Hill.
I would say just as much or more is due to the addition of Mike McDaniel
vtech9
All Pro
Tua is the same QB he was last season. He uses his feet to buy time, and find passing lanes (since he can't see over the line). The difference this season are his receiving weapons. Tua hasn't been super accurate either. His WR's have bailed him out several times. From what I've seen, Mills has a much better arm than Tua, but doesn't have the talent around him that Tua does.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Exactly. It's Hill and McDaniel that are the difference. We saw early last game against Pitt when the timing is there and Tua can hit <2.5sec quick seems/slants, Tua does amazing. When Tua is forced to drop back and run progressions, not so much. Tua's success this year is largely a byproduct of McDaniel recognizing Tua's limitations as a classical drop back passer, and accentuating his abilities through quick timing patterns to WRs. Dolphins getting Hill was no accident IMO; they need Hill because he's elite at quick twitch separation and flat routes for YAC, which allows Tua to get the ball out quickly. To his credit, Tua is accurate so it is working for them despite the noodle arm and limitations on the types of throws he can make consistently (i.e. deep outs)
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yes he has that capability as well. Go look at his game highlights or just watch there games. Their OC is mixing that thing up beautiful. You would see him throw in tight windows, leading his receivers and getting the ball out quick.
People on here are so freaking quick to tear down other players but wants to hype of who they like. Which is Mills right now.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I prefer a quarterback with a cannon for an arm however I prefer a quarterback who can hit his targets in stride.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
I don't really see anybody hyping Mills. I just like his future because of 1) his arm talent + accuracy and 2) how quickly he made adjustments last year being thrust into a starting position as a deeply inexperienced rookie. Even despite his slowish start, opinion hasn't changed much at this point. Thankfully, he's trending in the right direction IMO but need more games to see if it continues. Could still go either way.
As for Tua, he is fine as a system QB. He just doesn't have a big arm, like Garropolo, and thus cannot make all the traditional pocket QB throws. But he's accurate and seems to know what's going on, so he can succeed in the right system... Like Garropolo.
You didn't answer my question,
Why is he able to do all of these things and he wasn't able to do them last year. Did he suddenly become more active running the ball and more accurate throwing the ball? This has nothing to do with Mills, this has to do with better weapons makes any QB look better. BTW, I see Mills as a bridge QB but I'm willing to give him a full season to find out, despite having subpar coaching and talent around him
Last year, the Texans Oline was bad, but the Dolphins Oline was dead last and "historically" bad.
This year, both Oline improve to roughly the same level, with the Texans arguably ahead.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/ol-power-rankings-week-7-2022/
Three different outlets (PFF, ESPN, and SI) all said that the Dolphins Oline was historically bad, giving up 235 total pressures last year.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
What kind of question is that. Ask the coaches who are coaching him up.
That’s why you have OTA’s and stuff like that.
This website still has the Dolphins Oline at 28 and the Texans at 19.
The Undroppables - Offensive Line Injury Updates | Week 2 %
Our O-Line expert Brad Wire is here to give you the latest updates on injuries for guys in the trenches for you to consider when setting your fantasy football lineups. Arizona Cardinals Mason Cole – Out (Hamstring) – Cole played 36 snaps in Week 1 before going down with the injury and was...
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vtech9
All Pro
Yeah, I don't believe that. I think they are giving the Oline more credit than is deserved because of Pierce's success. Pierce leads the league in yards after contact. Mills is also close to the top of the list of QB's with the least amount of time to throw before being pressured.This website still has the Dolphins Oline at 28 and the Texans at 19.
The Undroppables - Offensive Line Injury Updates | Week 2 %
Our O-Line expert Brad Wire is here to give you the latest updates on injuries for guys in the trenches for you to consider when setting your fantasy football lineups. Arizona Cardinals Mason Cole – Out (Hamstring) – Cole played 36 snaps in Week 1 before going down with the injury and was...
Mills throws short very often, and as a first read.
Seriously, how much time does a QB need for that?
The coaching may or may not be better, but the main reason Tua's improved is 1. Hill 2. Armstead
Mills had Tunsil coming back healthy.
He also had another first round Olineman.
Nico has a year, and so on and so forth.
He is now supported by a running game.
Why is he stil bad?
He can only play decent-to-well against bad defense.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Mills has been well protected so far this season.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yes that’s part of it too. But coaching is also plays a major part. Did you even look at that video I posted. If not go look at the play designs. And look at how accurate he’s being with his passes.
vtech9
All Pro
Mills is tied for 5th in the league for being knocked down. Kirk Cousins has been knocked down two more times than Mills, but also has 21 more passing attempts. Matt Ryan by far leads all QB's in being knocked down. The other QB's with more knockdowns than Mills only have 3 or less more, but they have 56 to 101 more passing attempts.
Knock down is only one part of pressure.
Also, it would be nice if you can provide a link.
Thanks for the link.
A lot to chew on.
It's really hard to determine who's responsible for the pressure (knock down, hurry, sack) on any particular play.
But let's look at Mills and Tua as I can see something quite significant there.
If you sort by Air Yard, you will see that Tua had 821 Air Yards on just 150 attempts for an average of 5.5
Mills had 789 Air Yards on 207 attempt for an average of 3.8
That means on average, Tua's pass attempt is 1.7 yards further downfield.
3.8 is tied for 25th in the league (I had taken out guys with fewer throws like Zappe and Cooper Rush) with Wentz and Pickett.
Both Tua and Mills have the same TTT (time to throw) at 2.3
That means Tua throws the ball further downfield than Mills in the same time frame, on average.
vtech9
All Pro
Mills has been sacked 7 more times than Tua, and knocked down 17 more times. That tells me that Tua throws the ball because he wants to, and Mills throws the ball that quick because he has to. Tua is also going to have a better ypa and air yards because he has better WR's.
Like I said, pressure, sacks, knock downs, hurries, all those things, are not easy to place the responsibility on.
Remember those times in Schaub's early years when we sometimes complained that he didn't recognized the free Blitzer coming off the edge (actually the Blitzer can come from anywhere).
Oftentimes, we're not even sure whether that guy was the responsibility of the blocker or the QB.
....
But here, at the very least, we have to prorate the number of pressure (be it a sack or a knock down) to the number of attempts.
Everything being equal, a QB that throws the ball 207 times will see more "raw" number of pressure than a QB that throws the ball 150 times.
vtech9
All Pro
And also like I said, Tua has better YPA and Air Yards because he has better WR's. You know...Ones that can get open, and catch the ball when it is thrown to them?
I can't remember anyone interested in Tua as part of a trade for DW4.
Now all of a sudden we think he's good?
Now all of a sudden we think he's good?
This is not definite either.
First off, the Texans had 10 drops.
The Dolphins had 8.
A plus for the Dolphins, but not a deal breaker.
A QB that can find/identify the open receiver also helps.
We knew that Mills was off-target a bunch of time, especially early in the years. He left a bunch of yards on the field.
A mobile QB can avoid sacks and pressure in general better.
Sometimes that QB can get out of the pocket and improvise before QB gets there (so it wasn't recorded as a pressure.)
Moreover, from the links I had provided earlier, either two or three different outlets grade the Texans Oline as better than that of the Dolphins.
Besides, we have taken the YAC out of the equation, số whatever the receivers do after the catch is not involved here.
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It was actually quite the opposite. Consensus was wanting no part of the bum
Yep, Caserio went for the deal that could land players like Green/Pierce in the draft and set the team up for the next draft to draft Young/Stroud/Levis if he wants to go that way or wait until 2024 and draft Williams/Ewers/Maye to be his franchise QB. A truly great job by Caserio avoiding a guy like Tua, especially since he's got his Tua and maybe even better with Mills.
I wasn't interested in Tua due to his injury issue.
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Tua Tagovailoa injury history: A complete timeline of injuries for Dolphins QB | Sporting News
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That's a lot of injuries.
You consider Mills as a Tua, yet you said NC did a truly good job avoiding such a guy.
Isn't that talking out of both sides of the mouth?
Texansballer74
The Marine
I never wanted Tua either, just saying he’s playing some solid football. I posted the highlights from the Ravens game. Look at the creative by the OC. He’s playing to the strength of his players. While we’re running Burkhead out there on darn near every third down. Now they gave Dare some burn and watch them start playing him more.I wasn't interested in Tua due to his injury issue.
Tua Tagovailoa Injury History & Updates
Tua Tagovailoa Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injurieswww.draftsharks.com
Tua Tagovailoa injury history: A complete timeline of injuries for Dolphins QB | Sporting News
Tua Tagovailoa injury history: A timeline of injuries for Dolphins QB
That's a lot of injuries.
But to say Tua has a noodle arm is straight up false.
You consider Mills as a Tua, yet you said NC did a truly good job avoiding such a guy.
Isn't that talking out of both sides of the mouth?
Injuries, Remember CnD talking about the likelihood of Tua being injury prone once he entered the NFL? That's exactly how things have turned out.
And that's also the reason I never
said I want him.
Do you remember I've said otherwise.
But... you digress...
Just like a politician... again.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Hold on…..Mills has a Tyreek Hill type of receiver he gets to throw to? Where in the wide-wide world of sports have I been?
The parts that we discussed here exclude yards after catch.
Whatever the Dolphins receiving corp has (including Hill) are negated by that exclusion.
This was just about Air Yard.
The Texans have receivers like Cooks who can run route and get open; Collins, Jordan, Akins, Howard, etc. who can provide certain mismatch.
ben.aires.smith
Rookie
Howard and Aikens can provide mismatches? These are low-end TEs.
Jordan etc? How often have you seen any, including Cooks, get the kind of separation Hill and Waddle and Gisecki do?
The Texans TE group has 3 more catch and some 60 more yards than their Dolphins counterparts in one fewer game.
Edit for more catches to the Texans TE.
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TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Have you given any thought that while the Texans receivers can run routes and get open that the Miami receivers can run routes faster and get down the field farther than the Texans because Miami is that much faster?
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
This is very superficial.
This should make you think is this by design? Is the game plan to use the tight ends more? How many targets does one tight end group have over the other? And then compare that to completion.
For example - if the Texans TE group has more targets not an overwhelming amount of completions than Miami that should tell you that either the passes are bad or the TEs aren’t getting separation. Or both.