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David Johnson... welcome to houston

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You know what could be worse......the Cardinals finish with a better record and Hopkins delivers another Pro Bowl season along the way.

Would that make Murray better than Watson? NO! But some may insist it does.

Would that make another much younger and newer NFL HC and his staff better than a seasoned OB and his staff? YES! Would be more evidence to take into consideration.
Murray is better than DW4.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Apples to oranges.
If you can't tell them apart, there's no use discussing it.
There isn't if you're unable to read the simple W-L on Wiki. We've already had that boorish thread that you started up and I'm not willing to go down that rabbit hole again.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There isn't if you're unable to read the simple W-L on Wiki. We've already had that boorish thread that you started up and I'm not willing to go down that rabbit hole again.
Yes there is.
You're juat too stubborn to acknowledge it.
Many posters here, who don't care for Kubiak, acknowledge that he walked into a worse situation.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Reading is being stubborn?

LMAO
Try google Houston Texans all decade team and see how many of them that OBrien inherited.
Then extend it to include players from the inception (2002), like this one for example (or any other source you can find).
See how many of them that Kubiak inherited.

They are as close to facts as one can get.

Another fact is that Kubiak walked into a worse (much worse) cap situation.
Those numbers don't lie. They are facts and they don't change.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Try google Houston Texans all decade team and see how many of them that OBrien inherited.
Then extend it to include players from the inception (2002), like this one for example (or any other source you can find).
See how many of them that Kubiak inherited.

They are as close to facts as one can get.

Another fact is that Kubiak walked into a worse (much worse) cap situation.
Those numbers don't lie. They are facts and they don't change.
2-14 the Kubiak era ended just as it started.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Murray is better than DW4.
Maybe he is with Nuk catching his passes. . .

See, talent around the QB actually matters. As does having a coaching staff that comprehends how to implement a scheme to play to a QB's strengths.

I know, I know, it's a revolutionary thought process to evaluate single players within their situations. But that's what I do, forward thinking stuff, state-of-the-art mental gymnastics where circumstances actually matter in objective evaluations. :hmmm: [/SARCASM]
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Maybe he is with Nuk catching his passes. . .

See, talent around the QB actually matters. As does having a coaching staff that comprehends how to implement a scheme to play to a QB's strengths.

I know, I know, it's a revolutionary thought process to evaluate single players within their situations. But that's what I do, forward thinking stuff, state-of-the-art mental gymnastics where circumstances actually matter in objective evaluations. :hmmm: [/SARCASM]
Actually Murray was better last yr after Drake was traded for and long before Nuk got there as a rookie. Now that he's got Nuk to go with Fitz and Kirk, Murray is really ready to roll now that he has some experience.

It's intellectually lazy to say because the Cards got Nuk that's what makes Murray better than DW4.

Murray faced a tougher defense and did better than DW4 last week. After the last 6 games and counting this is beginning to become a trend.

I dont think BOB will ever bring a championship to Kirby and that's the reason I want him gone. However DW4's struggles aren't all on BOB and that's a fact. Whether you want to admit this or not.

If a QB succeeds in the NFL it's all because of his talent. If he fails it's all because of coaching. SMDH

Another reason I want BOB gone is so many here will see the light under a new HC. Even though we both know the excuses will last here for atleast another 4 yrs and we have RS to thank for this.

BTW, how much better did Dak look under McCarthy than Garrett? I suspect the same will hold true under the new Texans HC.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Actually Murray was better last yr after Drake was traded for and long before Nuk got there as a rookie. Now that he's got Nuk to go with Fitz and Kirk, Murray is really ready to roll now that he has some experience.

It's intellectually lazy to say because the Cards got Nuk that's what makes Murray better than DW4.

Murray faced a tougher defense and did better than DW4 last week. After the last 6 games and counting this is beginning to become a trend.

I dont think BOB will ever bring a championship to Kirby and that's the reason I want him gone. However DW4's struggles aren't all on BOB and that's a fact. Whether you want to admit this or not.

If a QB succeeds in the NFL it's all because of his talent. If he fails it's all because of coaching. SMDH

Another reason I want BOB gone is so many here will see the light under a new HC. Even though we both know the excuses will last here for atleast another 4 yrs and we have RS to thank for this.

BTW, how much better did Dak look under McCarthy than Garrett? Is suspect the same will hold true under the new Texans HC.
The numbers do not support your claim.
In fact, Murray saved his worst game for last, to the tune of 2 Ints and 2 lost fumbles.

 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Actually Murray was better last yr after Drake was traded for and long before Nuk got there as a rookie. Now that he's got Nuk to go with Fitz and Kirk, Murray is really ready to roll now that he has some experience.

It's intellectually lazy to say because the Cards got Nuk that's what makes Murray better than DW4.

Murray faced a tougher defense and did better than DW4 last week. After the last 6 games and counting this is beginning to become a trend.

I dont think BOB will ever bring a championship to Kirby and that's the reason I want him gone. However DW4's struggles aren't all on BOB and that's a fact. Whether you want to admit this or not.

If a QB succeeds in the NFL it's all because of his talent. If he fails it's all because of coaching. SMDH

Another reason I want BOB gone is so many here will see the light under a new HC. Even though we both know the excuses will last here for atleast another 4 yrs and we have RS to thank for this.

BTW, how much better did Dak look under McCarthy than Garrett? Is suspect the same will hold true under the new Texans HC.
It's very easy to see.
It doesn't matter whether Hopkins is open or not, Murray still has the confidence going to him right away, knowing Hops will cach the ball more often than not. He doesn't have to hesitate or has second thought. It helps him to get the ball out much quicker than last year.

 

Earl34

All Pro
BTW, how much better did Dak look under McCarthy than Garrett? I suspect the same will hold true under the new Texans HC.
Didn't McCarthy retain the OC? Wait until the offense struggles and McCarthy takes control of the offense like he did with his OCs in Green Bay. Then you can make that comment. Right now, you're a bit premature after one game.

Also, based on your comments, how do you account for the job the Titans have done with Tannehill? He was a bust in Miami. Goes to the Titans and a WCO and he looks like a totally different player. Isn't that coaching?
 

Earl34

All Pro
It's very easy to see.
It doesn't matter whether Hopkins is open or not, Murray still has the confidence going to him right away, knowing Hops will cach the ball more often than not. He doesn't have to hesitate or has second thought. It helps him to get the ball out much quicker than last year.

Also, look at Murray's passes. The majority are less than 10 yards. Out of 26 completions, only four were over 10 yards and none were over 20 yards.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Didn't McCarthy retain the OC? Wait until the offense struggles and McCarthy takes control of the offense like he did with his OCs in Green Bay. Then you can make that comment. Right now, you're a bit premature after one game.

Also, based on your comments, how do you account for the job the Titans have done with Tannehill? He was a bust in Miami. Goes to the Titans and a WCO and he looks like a totally different player. Isn't that coaching?
Tamnehill has always been good. He just was injury prone with the Dolphins. He's been healthy with the Titans
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Also, look at Murray's passes. The majority are less than 10 yards. Out of 26 completions, only four were over 10 yards and none were over 20 yards.

Yeah, I noticed that while watching the game this afternoon.
Kingsburry call a lot of quick hit plays including a bunch of screens and some roll-outs.
Murray saw very little pressure.
The line held up fairly well on a number of deeper routes.
And Murray was allowed to take off soon as he sees his primary receiver covered.
It was pretty much how the Cowboys played Dak during his rookie year.
Nothing too complicated; just well executed by the whole offense for the majority of the time.
I did check the nextgen stats for both Murray and Watson before I read your post.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Murray is better than DW4.
I thought you didn't like/respect QBs who give their #1 WRs the majority of the WR targets? Murray targeted Hopkins 17 times and I wouldn't be surprise if he targets Hopkins more than Watson ever did. What is the stat you kept quoting about Watson using Hopkins as a security blanket and giving him x% of the WR targets? Too funny.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I thought you didn't like QBs who give their #1 WRs the majority of the WR targets? Murray targeted Hopkins 17 times and I wouldn't be surprise if he targets Hopkins more than Watson ever did. What is the stat you kept quoting about Watson using Hopkins as a security blanket and giving him x% of the targets? Too funny.
I don't

1 game
 

mws

Waterboy
So far I guess it was worth it to get rid of Hopkins so we could pay over 5 times as much for a running back.

Carlos Hyde - 2019 salary $1,900,000
Week 1 83 yards
Week 2 90 yards
-----------------------------------
Total: 173 yards - Ave/Gm 86.5 yards

David Johnson - 2020 salary $11,156,250
Week 1 77 yards
Week 2 34 yards
-----------------------------------
Total 111 yards - Ave/Gm 55.5 yards
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
So far I guess it was worth it to get rid of Hopkins so we could pay over 5 times as much for a running back.

Carlos Hyde - 2019 salary $1,900,000
Week 1 83 yards
Week 2 90 yards
-----------------------------------
Total: 173 yards - Ave/Gm 86.5 yards

David Johnson - 2020 salary $11,156,250
Week 1 77 yards
Week 2 34 yards
-----------------------------------
Total 111 yards - Ave/Gm 55.5 yards
Calling Dr O...Dr B...Dr Incompetent!!!!!
 

zshawn10

All Pro
Texans’ David Johnson experiment looks worse than ever in loss to Steelers


Through the first two winless weeks of this Texans season, as they failed to produce explosive plays with their new downfield threats, there was still something distinctly different about this year’s offense: Even when controlling for win probability in a pair of blowouts, Houston led the league in early-down passing frequency.
Analytics favor this approach, but the Texans’ first-time play caller, offensive coordinator Tim Kelly, promised this wasn’t part of his football philosophy.

“We don’t want to be pass-heavy,” Kelly said this week. “We’d like to be more balanced, and I’ve got to do a better job making sure we’re more balanced.”

To ensure that, Kelly course-corrected in dramatic fashion Sunday, even as results told him to stop. In the Texans’ 28-21 loss to the Steelers in Pittsburgh, Houston’s explosive passing offense showed up in the first half, when the Texans scored all of their points, but a fruitless commitment to the run did them in as they dropped to 0-3. Though David Johnson scored Houston’s first touchdown, he ultimately had the least efficient performance of his career, gaining 23 yards on 13 carries (1.8 YPC).

All of Johnson’s rushing attempts came on first and second downs, contributing to the Texans averaging 11.3 yards to go on third down — the worst mark by a Houston team since 2003.

“We tried to work different schemes, and really nothing worked,” head coach and general manager Bill O’Brien said. “We weren’t able to get to the edge, and we weren’t able to really get up inside too much. So we just have to look at it. … We have to figure out how to get our running game going.”

If the Texans don’t, they could waste more performances from Deshaun Watson like the one the quarterback put together Sunday, completing 19-of-27 passes for 264 yards and two touchdowns to Randall Cobb and Will Fuller. Despite Watson’s efficient stat line, Houston’s offense experienced the ultimate boom-or-bust day. Of the Texans’ seven drives that didn’t result in TDs, all but one ended in a three-and-out. The other died on a Watson interception in the second half, as he was forced outside the pocket and saw the ball sail on him when he threw to the middle of the field.

Perhaps Watson was pressing by that point early in the fourth quarter. After all, his team was faltering, and he was receiving limited chances to turn it around. So many short drives resulted in the Texans’ best player dropping back just 12 times in the second half and attempting only nine passes while Pittsburgh ran 29 more plays than Houston over four quarters.

Facing a Steelers team that came into this game leading the league in both blitz rate and pressure rate, Watson took five sacks and absorbed 13 hits, but his protection was adequate during Houston’s scoring drives, especially when the Steelers chose to rush four.

Eventually, though, with the Texans facing so many obvious passing situations because of early-down failures, it became easy for the Steelers to dial up pressure or blanket the field with defenders.

“With a D-line like that, they can just pin their ears back and just rush, (or) they can drop everyone in coverage and play the sticks,” Watson said. “You’ve got to find the holes and buy some time to let those receivers get the depth that we need. But we got to stay out of that. We got to have positive yards on first and second down and get us in third and manageable.”

O’Brien received a lot of criticism this offseason when he traded away All-Pro receiver DeAndre Hopkins for Johnson, and through three weeks, the deal arguably looks as bad as ever. The player Houston drafted with the second-round pick it got from Arizona, defensive lineman Ross Blacklock, was a healthy scratch Sunday after being ejected from Houston’s Week 2 loss to the Ravens for throwing a punch, and Johnson looks like the player who averaged 3.7 YPC during his final two seasons with the Cardinals — maybe even worse.

The Steelers came into this game ranked first in run defense efficiency, but that alone shouldn’t excuse Johnson’s performance. He didn’t face a single box of eight-plus defenders, according to Next Gen Stats. And on a per carry basis, Johnson managed more than two fewer yards than expected, based on tracking data.

To make matters worse, the Texans aren’t taking advantage of the running back’s receiving ability, which has made him an elite player in the past and was supposed to add versatility to Houston’s offense. Through three games, Johnson, who had two catches for 23 yards Sunday, is averaging 23.7 receiving yards per game. That would represent a career low if it held for the entire season.

Hopkins, meanwhile, entered Week 3 as the league leader in receptions and as a member of an undefeated Cardinals team. He is proof of what Texans receiver Brandin Cooks admitted following the loss to the Steelers: The lack of a traditional offseason is not an adequate reason for Houston’s offensive struggles.

“That’s just a big excuse,” Cooks said. “You look around the league, offenses are playing at a high level. At the end of the day, we didn’t start our season fast. We started this game fast, but we didn’t finish, and that’s on (the offense).”

O’Brien agreed with Cooks on that last part. Though Houston’s run defense faded toward the end of the game for a second straight week, allowing 37 yards on five carries in Pittsburgh’s final 12-play scoring drive — which ended with a 12-yard James Conner touchdown run — O’Brien admitted the unit was probably tired. Houston’s offense didn’t offer its defense time to rest. The Steelers, who scored the game’s final 10 points and averaged 4.4 yards per carry, held the ball nearly 14 more minutes than the Texans did.

“I don’t know why we can play the run well early on and not finish it, so I need to get that answer so we can figure it out,” J.J. Watt said. “… Because you’re gonna lose football games, and we are losing football games, and we need to win.”

Just six teams in the past 40 years have climbed out of 0-3 holes to make the playoffs. The 2018 Texans were one of them, so maybe that can inspire some belief within Houston’s locker room. The postseason’s expansion and the fact the Texans have yet to face a divisional opponent offer reasons for optimism, too.

But with three losses to three of the AFC’s top teams, it’s hard to view the Texans as a true contender, even if they do find a way into the postseason.

Instead, Houston’s trajectory appears to mirror Johnson’s performance Sunday. One futile carry after another, the Texans look like a team headed nowhere fast.
https://theathletic.com/2097239/2020/09/27/the-texans-david-johnson-experiment-looks-worse-than-ever-in-loss-to-steelers/
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
So many other productive RBs available yet he goes after this one. OB should have gone after Fournette and not worry about his friend getting upset.
OB in his blind haste to rid himself of one of the best receivers in the NFL allowed the Cardinals to ram a expensive, washed-up RB down his throat arse first.....and he readily accepted it. He needs to be gone.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's intellectually lazy to say because the Cards got Nuk that's what makes Murray better than DW4.
ha!! I missed this one.

Are you really implying that a HoF WR is not going to make a QB look better? :um:

It's like you were unable (or unwilling) to comprehend the rest of my post: "talent around the QB actually matters. As does having a coaching staff that comprehends how to implement a scheme to play to a QB's strengths."

Be careful throwing "intellectually lazy" around when arguing against such basic and fundamental points.
 

banned1976

All Pro
So far I guess it was worth it to get rid of Hopkins so we could pay over 5 times as much for a running back.

Carlos Hyde - 2019 salary $1,900,000
Week 1 83 yards
Week 2 90 yards
-----------------------------------
Total: 173 yards - Ave/Gm 86.5 yards

David Johnson - 2020 salary $11,156,250
Week 1 77 yards
Week 2 34 yards
-----------------------------------
Total 111 yards - Ave/Gm 55.5 yards
You can add 29 yards to the ledger for week 3. If the HC believes the same crap he’s been feeding us since he arrived, that everything he does is for the T.E.A.M, he’d bench Johnson. But then he’d be in conflict with the GM.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
There were some plays Johnson could have done better vs Steelers but IMO most plays OL couldn't push the defense. All those guys should be able to consistently beat their guy and create space but it isn't happening. That isn't play calling or coaching but on the player. Frequently I thought "why the hades is (fill in)he blocking that guy allowing that guy to either run through anyway or allowing another lineman to blow past the Texan". It was the entire line doing that and often TE. Their blocking was as bad as Texans defense tackling. Basics!
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
David Johnson's yards per attempt so far:
Game 1 = 7.0 (11)
2 = 3.09 (11)
3 = 1.77 (13)
4 = 3.95 (16)
5 = 5.65 (17)
6 = 3.0 (19)
7 = 3.0 (14)

Texans rushing total through 7 weeks = 594. Their opponents = 1161.
Zeke Elliott's YPA so far:
Game 1 = 4.3 (22)
2 = 4.05 (22)
3 = 2.43 (14)
4 = 4.5 (12)
5 = 4.79 (19)
6 = 4.08 (12)
7 = 3.75 (12)

Zeke Total yards rushing 113 rushes 458 yds.
DJ31 Total yards rushing 101 rushes 392 yds.

1 guy still has elite athleticism the other is percieved to be done. Reality is both have the same issues..shitty run blocking. All but 5 guys ahead of him in total rushing also have at least 10 more carries than him. There's always more to the story than what is presented.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Zeke Elliott's YPA so far:
Game 1 = 4.3 (22)
2 = 4.05 (22)
3 = 2.43 (14)
4 = 4.5 (12)
5 = 4.79 (19)
6 = 4.08 (12)
7 = 3.75 (12)

Zeke Total yards rushing 113 rushes 458 yds.
DJ31 Total yards rushing 101 rushes 392 yds.

1 guy still has elite athleticism the other is percieved to be done. Reality is both have the same issues..shitty run blocking. All but 5 guys ahead of him in total rushing also have at least 10 more carries than him. There's always more to the story than what is presented.
Great point.
 


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