R
real
Guest
Since when did fast = good ?
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Could Troy Smith be better then VY?
- Thread starter Errant Hothy
- Start date
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I don't know when did the phrase "Speed kills" become popular?
Edit: See Julius Peppers, Taylor, Ware, Merriamn, etc. all fast pass rushers who are considered good, maybe even the best at their positions.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I have no dog in this fight. I think Troy "Tatter Tot" Smith looked pretty ordinary with Ginn Jr. standing on the sideline in a soft cast. There's you're ESPN "Green Room Guy " folks. I think Kubiack could win with him. He wants to go tramping for the next Fran Takington, and the guy is there with the nineth pick of the third round, I would have no objections. Might be a bit high...but cheap Sage insurance.
The passing stats that you and others always cite are to BE EXPECTED from a rookie QB. What isn't to be expected is the winning, late game heroics, leadership, and rushing stats. If we judged NFL passers by their rookie QB rating, then Donovan McNabb and Peyton Manning wouldn't look very good either. Geez, he's not a finished product, nor is any rookie QB, and he's WAY ahead of even the most optimistic predictions. Why people continue to write the guy off or sell him short is beyond me.
R
real
Guest
ummmm....ok??
I guess I'll ask the question again in a different way...
When did fast equal good ?
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Fast equals good when you can run around the guy assigned to block you and get a clean shot at the ball. Fast equals good when your first step puts you even the opposing tackle, before he is even out of his stance. Fast equals good when you bet backside blockers to teh ball.
Strong can also equal good, but speed usually can negate strength. See the perfromance of Michigan's DE against the OSU line versuses the performance of the Florida DEs agaisnt eh same O-line. Who had teh better game? See the quickness of UT's D-line last year getting position/leverage on the USC O-line on teh 4th and 2 play. (yes that was probalbly a combination of speed and strength, but if the UT D line hadn't gotten off teh line so quickly they would never have been able to stop Lendale White.)
Is there more to it then this, sure noting in life is simple but the quicker (or more athletic team) usually wins in college football.
R
real
Guest
No....
The "better" team usually wins...By your definiton, when colleges recruit, all they should do is watch guys run 40's....
Florida had a fast defense, but they weren't better than Ohio States defense from a year ago...
I can't believe this is even a discussion...
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Yeah there is no way Florida's 06 D could be better then OSU's 05 D. I mean they only gave up less points, and less yards a game. And we certainly shouldn't count that they played in the tougher conference. Nope wouldn't want to do that. And I dare not bring up that Florida caused more turnovers then the vaunted 05 OSU D.
Face it people you all bought into the OSU hype this year, just like most of teh nation bought into the USC hype last year.
As for 40 times, what do you think the combine is; and surely who don't think the 40 time can make or break a recruit's changes of getting a scholarship to a big time school.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Did you even read my original post? Or did you just jump at me saying he's not a great QB?
Battle Red Flash
Waterboy
Could Smith be better than V?
No.
and I'm an OSU fan.
No.
and I'm an OSU fan.
R
real
Guest
uuuhhh....yes, sir I sure did
Then you followed it up with this:
Did I miss something ?
R
real
Guest
TexanFanInCC
Veteran
in all fairness to troy smith, you cant completely blame his performance all on him. the o-line couldnt block for beans. the d-line basically "chomped" that o-line on every snap. the interception that troy threw was totally his fault. he shoulda never thrown that ball. throw it away or take the sack. he pretty much gave them the ball.
Kastofna is a joke, I remember him pimping Matt Leinart last year before the draft saying how New Orleans is going to "REGRET" passing on him for Drew Brees! LoL! How did that turn out for you? So of course he now has a vendetta against VY since the Rose Bowl and him being the first QB taken in the draft while "Lionhart" had to wait till the silly Cardinals came a calling. How do you take being passed up by the Detroit Lions? Ughh.
As far as this thread though, its pretty laughable that anyone even thought this up? OK, first lets see, TS is 5'9 and 190 lbs soaking wet while VY is a 6'5 230 monster who runs a 4.5! That ends the debate right there, I won't even get into the rest, just go to youtube and type in "Vince Young" and the argument is over.
Next, If VY were to play that all world Florida defense, they would look like USC's D did last year in the Rose Bowl. Outmatched and Outgunned. They would have thrown a Blitz at him and he would have ran past the end, split the secondary and hit a 60 yarder on them (throwing or running) and UF would have pee'd their pants and went to plan B. Ted Ginn? He don't need no stinkin Ted Ginn, just Dave Thomas and someone to hand the ball of to on running plays. VY would have owned them just like he did everyone else.
As far as this thread though, its pretty laughable that anyone even thought this up? OK, first lets see, TS is 5'9 and 190 lbs soaking wet while VY is a 6'5 230 monster who runs a 4.5! That ends the debate right there, I won't even get into the rest, just go to youtube and type in "Vince Young" and the argument is over.
Next, If VY were to play that all world Florida defense, they would look like USC's D did last year in the Rose Bowl. Outmatched and Outgunned. They would have thrown a Blitz at him and he would have ran past the end, split the secondary and hit a 60 yarder on them (throwing or running) and UF would have pee'd their pants and went to plan B. Ted Ginn? He don't need no stinkin Ted Ginn, just Dave Thomas and someone to hand the ball of to on running plays. VY would have owned them just like he did everyone else.
Huge
All Pro
You (Hoth-Boy) went from this:
If you're going to use his 66.7 QB rating for the season as the evidence that he didn't have a good season, why leave out the evidence that he had a QB rating of 85 or higher in 4 individual games? Wouldn't that prove that he had at least 4 (2 if you want to count the games where his rating was over 100) great games from the QB position?
As for his 66.7 QB rating as a rookie:
Peyton Manning - 71.2 rating, 2 fewer TDs than INTs as a rookie
Drew Brees - 76.9 rating, 1 more TD than INTs his 2nd year (1st as a starter)
Eli Manning - 55.4 rating, 3 fewer TDs than INTs as a rookie
Donovan McNabb - 60.1 rating, 1 more TD than INTs as a rookie
Troy Aikman, John Elway, Dan Fouts are all in the Hall of Fame. All 3 had more INTs than TDs their rookie seasons.
On the opposite end of that spectrum:
Charlie Batch, Patrick Ramsey, Tony Banks, and Aaron Brooks all had more TDs than INTs (or in Banks' case, as many) their rookie seasons. You'd probably need an abacus to count up all their Pro Bowl appearances.
To this:Hoth-Boy said:
Notice the difference?Hoth-Boy said:
If you're going to use his 66.7 QB rating for the season as the evidence that he didn't have a good season, why leave out the evidence that he had a QB rating of 85 or higher in 4 individual games? Wouldn't that prove that he had at least 4 (2 if you want to count the games where his rating was over 100) great games from the QB position?
As for his 66.7 QB rating as a rookie:
Peyton Manning - 71.2 rating, 2 fewer TDs than INTs as a rookie
Drew Brees - 76.9 rating, 1 more TD than INTs his 2nd year (1st as a starter)
Eli Manning - 55.4 rating, 3 fewer TDs than INTs as a rookie
Donovan McNabb - 60.1 rating, 1 more TD than INTs as a rookie
Troy Aikman, John Elway, Dan Fouts are all in the Hall of Fame. All 3 had more INTs than TDs their rookie seasons.
On the opposite end of that spectrum:
Charlie Batch, Patrick Ramsey, Tony Banks, and Aaron Brooks all had more TDs than INTs (or in Banks' case, as many) their rookie seasons. You'd probably need an abacus to count up all their Pro Bowl appearances.
Hoth-Boy said:
Let's say '06 Florida's D is better than '05 tOSU's D. Let's say they're leaps and bounds better. But I still don't think they're better than the '06 Baltimore Ravens D. And Vince managed much more than 6 total yards (250 to be exact) against them this year.kastofsna said:
Bob McNair
Waterboy
I'm ordering my Tony Banks Pro-Bowl jersey right now! I just have to decide which year ... I know ... one of the years he was with the Texans!
Luv Ya Blue 2007
Noob
Now how in the world could you make these remarks. Even if I were a OU fan, I would no better. To say TS is a better college player than VY is ludicrous. VY was the qb of the 2005 National Champs. And if you forgot by you dum ass 2nd quote, VY did not lose a game in the 2005 season.
Mexican Texan,
My best advise for you is to leave this subject alone, as it is extremely out of your league.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Yeah, you missed the leadership part, it seems.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
I'm a Longhorn. In the OSU game, Smith was clearly the bigger threat.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
I found them overrated.
R
real
Guest
R
real
Guest
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
NO but thats faulty logic as VY is surronded by NFL calibar players on the feild, on both sides of the ball. No college unit, D or O, is as good as the worst NFL unit.
I'm done with my own topic, do I have an answer for my own question? At teh time this was posted I would have said that Troy Smith would be the better pro QB, now I don't think so. As for some of the other topics brought up I still feel that a) the 05 Longhorns never played a D as good as Florida's this year, OU's was close b)Florida has better D this year then OSU did last year and c) the biggest factor in where Troy Smith gets drafted will be his height at the combine.
R
real
Guest
I find it so odd, that all of a sudden Florida's D is sooooo great....
Before they put that smack down on OSU no one on this board was giving rave reviews of Florida's defense....Had they lost that game and Troy Smith played really well, no one would be talking about their amazing "team speed"....
I wouldn't have even thought Troy Smith was a better QB than VY even if they had won the N.C....let a lone after the fact....
I really can't believe this is even debatable now....
Will Troy Smith be a better pro? maybe....but I doubt it.....
Was Troy Smith a better college QB ? no....end of discussion.
travfrancis
Waterboy
Mexican Texan keeps saying he's a big longhorn fan, but I read hornfans.com everyday and I've never seen anyhting like the takes he has on the horns and VY.
Something just doesn't add up with Mexican Texan.
Something just doesn't add up with Mexican Texan.
Huge
All Pro
Doesn't the fact Vince is playing against NFL caliber players offset the fact he's playing with NFL caliber players?
R
real
Guest
right ?
Is he supposed to be measured as if he was still playing with his UT teammates....
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
...
I'm not a complete UT homer. VY had his faults. You guys make him out to be a god.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
OSU would have won that game if Troy Smith was the QB the whole game.
R
real
Guest
R
real
Guest
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Troy Smith is really good. At least admit that. Say what you want about his last game, but he was without Ginn. VY had Thomas, who has some of the best hands I've ever seen.
R
real
Guest
I never said Troy Smith was bad....In fact I've even said that if he falls to the second rd. we should jump on him...
yourfavoritetexan42
Waterboy
Right now I would say Vince Young. He has more size, and can run a lot better. He throws alright too. He just doesn't have the awareness right now... but I believe that will come.
Troy Smith is the better pure passer, but he doesn't have size and he isn't the greatest rusher. He reminds me a lot of Donavan McNabb.
Troy Smith is the better pure passer, but he doesn't have size and he isn't the greatest rusher. He reminds me a lot of Donavan McNabb.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
That I can agree with. I think he can run the dink and dunk offense better than Carr.
Huge
All Pro
Smith still had Anthony Gonzales in that game. His hands are every bit as good as Ginn's.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
But Ginn provides big play ability and also attracts the attention of the defense. Without Ginn, Gonzalez would not have had as good of a season (not saying he isn't a good receiver; they just feed off each other). Taking away one (especially Ginn) makes the OSU passing attack much less dangerous.
Ginn was a huge loss to OSU in the game.