infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Then you don't listen when you aren't defending a pet player. It is always a team game.
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Could Troy Smith be better then VY?
- Thread starter Errant Hothy
- Start date
Then you don't listen when you aren't defending a pet player. It is always a team game.
R
real
Guest
You're right...I do like VY....
And I think you guys are more or less stating the obvious when you say "it's a team game"....well duh....
Again...I haven't seen anyone saying that VY won the game all by his lonesome...
Maybe you have....
although I just can't imagine someone thinking he could go out there and pass the ball to himself, and block for himself....
When people say he took the game over...or HE won the game....don't take it so litteral...
Don't know if this has been covered yet, but do you think Troy Smith will be better than Jay Cutler??
would you ever characterize Lienart's performance as "one of the best individual performances of all time in college ball." ??
I wouldn't. He had a great game. But I can think of many college atheletes that have had better games at one time or another during their college careers, & I don't watch a lot of college football.
Huge
All Pro
Where has anybody, on this thread, said Vince has won games all by himself?
Leinart did have a fantastic game that night (depsite his INT). But even the most objectionable view is not going to remember or think that he had a better night than Young. So as great as Leinart was that night, Young was still better. That is what people are going to remember and that is why people believe Young was a better player in college then than what Smith is now. Unless of course Smith has a similar game against Michigan or in the title game. Which isn't impossible but it'd be a feat to watch.infantrycak said:
Texans Horror
All Pro
This time last year I think all the haters were questioning VY's ability to compete because of his passing ability. Now the question seems to be if he was Texas last year. The fact that the Big XII is more competitive this year and yet the Horns are still on top shows the ability of the team. This being a team sport, I'd never agree that VY won the game. Texas won it. Only commentators try to pin a win or loss on one player. Of course, we should be used to this in Houston, where every win seems to be hinged on David Carr...
Troy Smith and VY are two different QBs with two different styles. They aren't comparable. I will say this: I think Vince was the best quarterback coming out of college football last year, and I think Troy Smith is the best one this year, IMO.
Troy Smith and VY are two different QBs with two different styles. They aren't comparable. I will say this: I think Vince was the best quarterback coming out of college football last year, and I think Troy Smith is the best one this year, IMO.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Yes I would, and he still got beat. Leinart in the third quater may have played the best quater of football by any QB ever; dude was massivly en fuego.
Lost in teh VY hype was just how good UT's D was last year.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
yeah, leinart was ridiculous in the 3rd quarter. even more amazing considering how poorly he played at the end of the first half, and with any other QB they'd take the ball out his hands and just hand it off to bush and white to save him. but nope, they let him take control of the game.
thank god for the "ignore user" feature, you despicable hack.
king_jamason
Practice Squad
Could Troy Smith be better then VY?
What? If by "better" do you mean, "who's mechanics are more screwed-up."
In that case I would have to say Troy Smith.
Listen! I like to watch what a scrambling qb can do. A Vick like QB is kinda of fun. They "Vick, Smith, Young" remind me of Randall Cunningham.
But the only difference is that Randall could throw the ball. He took pride in his ability to throw the ball.
Again not to take anything away from a "scrambling qb". But I see this as a very bad trend in the NFL. Before you know it we are going to more quarterbacks who's only asset is speed.
Sounds like professional high school football. Fun every now and then.
But this is not professional football.
What? If by "better" do you mean, "who's mechanics are more screwed-up."
In that case I would have to say Troy Smith.
Listen! I like to watch what a scrambling qb can do. A Vick like QB is kinda of fun. They "Vick, Smith, Young" remind me of Randall Cunningham.
But the only difference is that Randall could throw the ball. He took pride in his ability to throw the ball.
Again not to take anything away from a "scrambling qb". But I see this as a very bad trend in the NFL. Before you know it we are going to more quarterbacks who's only asset is speed.
Sounds like professional high school football. Fun every now and then.
But this is not professional football.
R
real
Guest
Could Troy Smith be better then VY?
Abso-freakin-lutely....
Abso-freakin-lutely....
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
Did you see the way the Florida D - line manhandled Troy????
I think VY would have had a better game and probably would have won!
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
That may be somewhat true but Troy Smith looked like turd yesterday. I think his draft stock is still dropping fifteen hours later ...
I know this was awhile ago ... but have you posted here before?
R
real
Guest
So now the Patriots defense = Florida's defense ????
I don't know if VY played a defense as fast(assuming that's what you meant) as Florida's defense in college, but he didn't play a bunch of slouches either....He did play well against Michigan his Sophmore year in the rose bowl...he did play well against Ohio State's defense last year....
Oh yeah....While Troy Smith has been spending this past year on campus...VY went 8-3 as a starter in his rookie season in the NFL....
Yeah I can totally see how VY would have been shut down by that defense....
El Amigo Invisible
Rookie
I think he covered all of his bases. Nice Post!
R
real
Guest
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
no, the pats defense = really good, much like the gators. and we're seeing just how good those big 10 defenses really are. especially michigan in '04, they weren't really good at all.
R
real
Guest
IMHO, I don't think there was a college defense this past year or the past three years that could have shut down VY in his junior year, much less had he returned for his senior yr....
Pitcock, Youbouty, Whitner, Hawk, Carpenter, and a senior laden defensive unit on the road. That OSU unit was more similar to NE than Florida.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Smith is better at the college level, but I don't see his skills translating to the NFL like VY's.
The last good defense I remember VY playing was OU in 04 or 05, which just happened to be his last loss at UT.
The last good defense I remember VY playing was OU in 04 or 05, which just happened to be his last loss at UT.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Why is this even a thread? Troy Smith can't even hold Vince Young's jockstrap. Smith is an undersized QB that absolutely choked in the biggest game of his life. We all know what Vince Young did in the biggest game of his life. As for saying that VY didn't face any defences as good as Florida, that is just insane and obvious playa hating.
Get over it. Troy Smith is a college QB. VY is a QB...period. Smith will be lucky to become a starter in the NFL after what I saw last night. If he thought those pass rushes were good then just wait till he gets to the NFL.
VY > TS....and its not even close
Get over it. Troy Smith is a college QB. VY is a QB...period. Smith will be lucky to become a starter in the NFL after what I saw last night. If he thought those pass rushes were good then just wait till he gets to the NFL.
VY > TS....and its not even close
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
VY isn't a great QB. He's a great leader and runner, but not a great QB.
R
real
Guest
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Are you saying he's a great QB?
R
real
Guest
Why does it matter how he wins ? Why does he have to fit your mold of being a great passer to be considered a great QB ?
Question: If VY never has gaudy passing numbers, and wins games similar to how he won games this year, leads his team to many play-off appearances, and maybe a superbowl or two....will he still not be a grat QB because he didn't air it out ?
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
When he can lead a team to a Super Bowl, that's great leadership.
old football fan
Waterboy
Smith as good as Young? I don't think so! And I'm not a fan of Young's, but he is a very good player with alot of upside. I will give credit where credit is due.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
In this thread ? On this board ?
Im confused...
You said no one on this board has ever said that VY won a game all by himself. I lost count back before the Rose Bowl ... let alone after.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Name me a singloe defense that VY palyed against that was as good/athletic as the Florida D.
There are not very many teams outside of the SEC that can match them for athletic play, espically from at the D-line spots.
Smith did nothing to help himself last night, and I'm now pretty sure we won't be picked in Round 1. As for who might be better, I'm still not sure. Yes VY went 8-3 as a started but it's not like he played great games from teh QB spot (ie good passing numbers, good TD/INT ratio, etc. NOT rushing yards; becasue if VY keeps this up (running all teh time) he's going ot get hurt.)
Titan "Tack" Fan
Veteran
Troy Smith doesn't deserve to hold Vince's jock. VY is way better.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
not surprising coming from one of the wise men on the board (i left out the word 'old')
is VY great yet? no. but he is already good and has already made huge leaps and bounds that normally take QBs years to make.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
OU's defense, OSU's defense, and Michigan's defense. Good enough for you? The level of VY hatred around here is just sickening.
Florida played a good game last night and had a chip on their shoulder. It was obvious that they have lots of talent too, but to say that VY never faced a defense as good is just ludicrous and dollars to donuts you are an Aggie or a UT hater.
It's the same song and dance from yall... after the Rose Bowl, he's a project and won't be able to run. After a ROY campaign and turning around a franchise, he'll get hurt and he can't pass. His passing stats are pretty comparable to every rookie passer and they were superlative in college. Yall said he was a project and he is a Pro-Bowl alternate.
Yall said he couldn't run in the NFL and he averaged 6.7 ypc and scored 7 TDs. Yall said he didn't have NFL speed and he had 5 TD runs of 19yds or longer. His running ability was fantastic and late game heroics were pretty much unmatched in the league this year. I count 3 games (HOU, Buff, and NYG) that he took over when it mattered and flat out won. Now you're saying he didn't face anybody in college, c'mon now how many #1 picks need to be on a defense to be good, 10? He acquitted himself pretty well against BAL and BUF. But Florida would have just ended his world.
Yall have been consistently wrong on Young and it looks like you'll continue to be. At this point, I think people are either stubborn or it's just really personal.
R
real
Guest
Oh...LOL....
I was just talking about members in that particular area of the thread where the back and forth discussion was going on at the time....
old football fan
Waterboy
I think T. Smith would compare to a Kordale Stewart more than a VY. Next year will be a big test for VY as Def, Coor. will know more about him and how to defend against him. I wouldn't be surprised if Smith is switched to another position in the NFL. I'm only OLD in years on this earth, but young in mind and body.
R
real
Guest
I don't know what you mean by "can't"....
If your definition of "can't" is his throwing numbers this year....then my response is, his "can't" was good enough to go 8-3 as a rookie....
If by "can't" you mean that he will become a worse passer....then yeah...I might agree with you although anything is possible....
But if by "can't" you mean that he'll get better every year as a passer, as is expected of him, then I'd have to say your defenition of "can't" is a little skewed because he already showed he "can" pass good enough to win, so if next year he "couldn't" or "can't" throw good enough, that'd mean he has regressed...which I wouldn't hold my breath for....
R
real
Guest
Leadership ?
you're questioning his leadership ?
How did we get here?
I thought you said he wasn't a great QB...because he doesn't throw like you want him to....And my response was something to the affect of: Who cares how he's doing it, as long as he's doing it?
If I throw a great frisbee with my foot instead of my hand does that mean I'm not a great frisbee thrower because I do it in an unconventional way?
I could understand if you say he's not a great passer...but leadership ?
travfrancis
Waterboy
This thread sucks.
Huge
All Pro
kastofsna said:
As a Jr., Young played against an Ohio State defense, in Columbus, that had:
3 first round draft picks
2 third round draft picks
2 fourth round draft picks
Vernon Gohlston, Quinn Pitcock and David Patterson were also a part of that defense.
Your prediction of how he would've played similarly against a similar defense...
18/29, 270 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs
20 rushes, 76 yards
...is a bit off.
Just because Vince made them look like an average defense does not mean they were one.
Covered.Hoth-Boy said:
I must've missed it. What position was Vince playing while the Titans were winning 6 straight?Hoth-Boy said:
ThaShark316
#28
LOL @ Troy Ward being in VY's league...I mean Troy Ware...I think I got it right.
STEEL BLUE TEXANS
Hall of Fame
I'm pretty sure Vince Young could have gotten more than 6 yards of total offense against the Gator's defense.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
OU is a maybe, but OSU's and Michigan's D are nowhere near as fast as most of those in the SEC, inluding Florida. Facts are facts, the SEC is teh best conference in the land, and tends to have some of the athletic teams around. Hell the Defensive players we're considering for the Texans to pick at 8 are mostly from the SEC, as is the current DROY, and our best DB. UT's best D (last years) was conceived by, the players were recruited to run, and executed by Auburn's former DC.
I'll take the dollar's seeing I grew up in UT household, and while I went to Tech, I'vealways pulled for UT, except when teh play Tech. And with that in mind I take being compared to an Aggie as an insult (no offense intended to the Aggie's on this board)
Huge said:
I must have missed it too, cause I could have sworn VY's QB rating for the year was under 70 (infact it was 66.7) I could have sworn he threw more INTs then TDs, and completed just over 50% of his passes. Maybe it's a good thing VY isn't teh QB here casue based off the stats half the message board would be screaming we needed a new QB
AS an aside: I like VY, I've admitted I was wrong about him, but just as some acuse people of being haters and not seeing beyond said hatred what gets me going are those who can't see beyond their man-crushes on VY. He was a god at UT, which means alot of people who went ot UT and many more who didn't view him the same way; but he isn't perfect. There are faults in his game, his current head coach and OC both wanted another QB then VY before the draft, one they thought would make a better pro. Could they have been wrong? Sure, but for people to still act like VY's game has no faults and the start revising history to suite their VY love then I tend to get a bit...testy. No offense is intended by any of this.