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Bryce Young vs CJ Stroud

I don’t see what you are seeing. Schaub had more personality than Stroud. I have not seen leadership on the field. Plus he has been poor under pressure. Other than that Ok. Accuracy is appealing.

I would rather he go to the Colts or Titans and we build a awesome defense that rattles him every game.

around this time narratives tend to get overplayed. I remember back in 98’ the narrative on Manning was that he was a choker/overrated & not the guy b/c he couldn’t get past Spurrier and the Gators. Leaf was supposedly the guy b/c he was the more fiery leader on the field.

What you’re saying you could’ve said the same thing about Jalen Hurts back in college too. National championship game when he was benched…could’ve said the moment was too big for him. I wouldn’t read too much into his on field demeanor. Some guys just don’t feel the need to be all animated.
 
around this time narratives tend to get overplayed. I remember back in 98’ the narrative on Manning was that he was a choker/overrated & not the guy b/c he couldn’t get past Spurrier and the Gators. Leaf was supposedly the guy b/c he was the more fiery leader on the field.

What you’re saying you could’ve said the same thing about Jalen Hurts back in college too. National championship game when he was benched…could’ve said the moment was too big for him. I wouldn’t read too much into his on field demeanor. Some guys just don’t feel the need to be all animated.

Your last two posts talk about singular moments. A benching in a national championship game. Stroud using his legs in one game.

Over the course of Stoud’s season he did bad under pressure. That’s not a narrative. It’s a fact.
 
around this time narratives tend to get overplayed. I remember back in 98’ the narrative on Manning was that he was a choker/overrated & not the guy b/c he couldn’t get past Spurrier and the Gators. Leaf was supposedly the guy b/c he was the more fiery leader on the field.

What you’re saying you could’ve said the same thing about Jalen Hurts back in college too. National championship game when he was benched…could’ve said the moment was too big for him. I wouldn’t read too much into his on field demeanor. Some guys just don’t feel the need to be all animated.
Nothing overplayed about Texan draft history or QB acquisition.
 
yup…none of the other guys you mentioned were viewed as hands down better prospects when they cane out…if they were they would’ve been taken much higher than they were.

Burrow and Lawrence were guys who at no point were rumored to be going any less than 3.

Mahomes and Watson were guys that had actual legit concerns around their health & play styles…which is how/why a bum like Mitch Trubisky was able to go much higher in the draft than they were..both were selected outside of the top 10.

Allen had legit concerns about comp faced & accuracy. I forget about what it was exactly with Herbert but the Dolphins thought enough of those concerns to take Tua over him…

Stroud has never been rumored to go any lower than 4 to Indy. He has the measureables, he has the accuracy..he has the arm strength, demeanor and personality, film….everything. The concerns regarding his reluctance to use his legs was answered in the college football playoffs…this S2 nonsense is just that nonsense.

I pray that Stroud goes to the Colts.

No championships
 
Stroud has all the tools to be somewhere between good and great. Good is a far sight better than the crap sandwich I’ve endured for 10+ years, outside of a couple of Watson years. Given the increasing reality Bryce is #1..if I’m picking, I take Stroud. Yes there are some questions. Name the perfect prospect?

that said, there is just too much smoke that the Texans don’t like Stroud. Next man up for me is Richardson. His ceiling is highest in this group to me. If they don’t think he is worth the risk, I’m trying like hell to trade the pick. Levis at 2 reeks of desperation. Lower floor than Stroud or Richardson, and to me at least…lower ceiling than Richardson. True boom/bust prospect. If they really want Levis, I’ll find a way to get onboard…but Levis is 5th on my list. I’ve got Hooker above him and would take Anderson or Wilson at 2 if I had to stay and Richardson isn’t my guy.

then find a way to get Hooker even if it requires a trade up.
 
Exactly…thats more of a legit concern than this S2 test crap on stroud. The difference with Burrow is that I don’t think any team thought there was a real possibility of him not being the #1 overall pick. thats how u know this S2 nonsense is pre-draft fuckery by some team trying to get Stroud to fall tho.

Well Burrow scored very high on the S-2 according to reports.

Stroud did not.

A slight difference between the 2 prospects, which is why Stroud will fall a bit. Plus Stroud isn't a man of his word. Shocking coming from a DM client.
 
Your last two posts talk about singular moments. A benching in a national championship game. Stroud using his legs in one game.

Over the course of Stoud’s season he did bad under pressure. That’s not a narrative. It’s a fact.

Lol its a narrative based primarily on 1 performance in 1 game where he nor the Buckeyes team as a whole played well. & in that game he had several drops. Aside from that all these guys have points in the season where they did bad under pressure and didn’t play all that well. yes even Young who looked mediocore against Texas before bama began running it down their throat.
 
Well Burrow scored very high on the S-2 according to reports.

Stroud did not.

A slight difference between the 2 prospects, which is why Stroud will fall a bit. Plus Stroud isn't a man of his word. Shocking coming from a DM client.

S2 is the new wonderlic…people overly weighing its worth trying to get some sort of leg up on an imperfect process. Just like folks overweighing PFF grades.

What matters the most by far is what type of situation these guys come into and how they’re developed. Saw it with Tua once he got a goid cosch and playcaller. Saw it with Josh Allen and how he made a drastic improvement from year 1 to year 2…starting to see it with Daniel Jones i think with Daboll.
 
I don’t see what you are seeing. Schaub had more personality than Stroud. I have not seen leadership on the field. Plus he has been poor under pressure. Other than that Ok. Accuracy is appealing.

I would rather he go to the Colts or Titans and we build a awesome defense that rattles him every game.
So you're at practice,film room and in the huddle huh? How do any of us know what his personality is with his teammates?
 
S2 is the new wonderlic…people overly weighing its worth trying to get some sort of leg up on an imperfect process. Just like folks overweighing PFF grades.

What matters the most by far is what type of situation these guys come into and how they’re developed. Saw it with Tua once he got a goid cosch and playcaller. Saw it with Josh Allen and how he made a drastic improvement from year 1 to year 2…starting to see it with Daniel Jones i think with Daboll.
People also act like a 21 yr old is a finished product. It really amazes me how everyone wants to force a ol or g last year because it was a need, but doesn't want the same at the most important position in sports.
 
Watching NFL Network, 1st rd of 2005 Draft. Alex Smith just went #1. Aaron is falling, can’t wait to see if Texans pass or select him, moving on from David Carr 😂

Reportedly, Green Bay has just traded Rodgers to Jets in a swap of #1’s (15 to 13) Packers also giving up their 5th for Jets 6th and next years #2 with incentives that could turn it into a first rounder.

Back to the 2005 draft- three freaking RB’s taken in first 5 picks. How times have changed (Ronnie Brown #2 Cedric Benson #4 Cadillac Williams #5). Never forget this, Texans traded down from #13 to #17 passing on two killer linebackers Thomas Davis and Derrick Johnson to select DT Travis Johnson (great guy but average player). Aaron Rodgers still on the board.

Reflect on history, don’t repeat a bad mistake, because you’ve become unglued, uncomfortable with what the talking heads say, who gives a flip! Draft the QB, regardless what others say, don’t keep repeating this viscous cycle.

I’m not saying C.J. Stroud is Aaron Rodgers, but his arm talent is similar, both in timing, accuracy and touch. 18 years of wear & tear, one Super Bowl, MVP’s, and Aaron still commands trade value. Don’t blow this and skip addressing franchise QB.

Aaron Rodgers selected by the Green Bay Packers with the #24th pick in 2005 NFL Draft. I don’t care if it’s Bryce or CJ just do it @ #2.
Didn't Fournette and C-Mack go top 5 in their draft too?
 
Lol its a narrative based primarily on 1 performance in 1 game where he nor the Buckeyes team as a whole played well. & in that game he had several drops. Aside from that all these guys have points in the season where they did bad under pressure and didn’t play all that well. yes even Young who looked mediocore against Texas before bama began running it down their throat.

That’s the narrative to deflect.
 
https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/04/25/2023-nfl-draft-quarterback-prospects-nfl-coaches
…the 2023 class isn’t exactly perfect. It has potential, to be sure. It also has potholes.

“I’d say it’s a risky group,” says a veteran NFC quarterbacks coach. “There’s not a clear-cut guy—there’s no Andrew Luck, no Joe Burrow, no Trevor Lawrence. I’m glad we don’t need one. … I’d said the least amount of risk is with [C.J.] Stroud, because he has size, arm talent and a lot of production in the Big Ten, but he’s not a real big creator. They all have flaws.”

The consensus is that this crew is at once enticing and imperfect. Here, more specifically, is how the league sees each of the top guys.

Bryce Young

Ceiling comp: Shorter, more improvisational Drew Brees

There’s little disagreement on what a taller, bigger Young would be. “Other than his size,” says one AFC OC, “he does everything the way you want a quarterback to do it—great accuracy, great vision, moves well in the pocket, and, as a testament to him, he’s not throwing to the guys Tua [Tagovailoa] and Mac [Jones] were.” An NFC passing-game coordinator adds, “The instincts stand out, first and foremost, his eyes, his feel for the game. His arm is good enough, not great, but the other thing he has is his anticipation. How well he can see the game makes up for the arm. … And he plays with his eyes up at all times. There are very few times he’s just looking to run. He remains a passer at all times.” Another NFC OC adds, “You see the point guard of the offense—poise, instincts, he’s twitchy, a real twitchy athlete, twitchy arm, accuracy, throws with anticipation, his pocket movement, he’s tough in pocket.” Which is where some “smaller, slighter Joe Burrow” comps are coming from, and how the Steph Curry comps came to be, too.

Young has also been a home run hitter in just about all his meetings. “The intangibles with him are off the charts,” says an AFC passing-game coordinator. “We [met with] him … he just has a great presence. He’s laid back, confident. He’s definitely comfortable being himself. Just seems like overall as likable a guy as you’ll find.” Young’s score of 98 on the S2 test, which beat high-scorers Burrow, Josh Allen and Justin Fields, is mirrored by his mastery of the pro-style Alabama scheme he ran, one that skewed away from the more RPO-heavy looks the Tide had run in recent years, to take advantage of his mind for the game.

With all that established, his size is his size. He was listed at 194 pounds at Bama, weighed 204 at the combine, didn’t work out there, then chose not to weigh in before he did work out at his pro day. Which only furthers concern over what his playing weight will be in the pros, and the lack of a precedent for someone his size. “I like everything about Bryce—great interview, great intelligence, feel, instincts, he’s an accurate passer—but I am concerned about his size,” says an NFC quarterbacks coach. “I don’t like his bone structure. It’s different than [Drew] Brees or [Russell] Wilson. I didn’t like Teddy Bridgewater’s bone structure, either. It’s still a big man’s game. Maybe he’ll play for 20 years, and I’ll be wrong. But the game’s changed.”

Another concern related to his size is that at Alabama, Young was deployed heavily out of the shotgun, and plenty of NFL folks figured that was done to keep his vision clean—so if you play under center, or with the quarterback’s back to the line of scrimmage a lot, there is projection here. And there were times, to some, where he played too much on his toes, or couldn’t flick the ball out of tight spaces because of his stature. “Where he struggles,” says the AFC passing-game coordinator, “is when the pocket gets pushed into him. He can get overwhelmed.”

An NFC quarterbacks coach said that happens, he thinks, because “his arm’s not strong. It’s strong enough. But there’s not a lot of leeway. He needs to be on time, and usually is, because he doesn’t have the arm strength to make up for it. He can’t throw it harder to get it there. … He makes up for some of it because he can move, throw from different platforms, throw it quick, move people with his eyes, and throw a guy open. He sees it, and the ball comes out of his hand faster than anyone else, as fast as I’ve seen. It’s like he has a fiber-optic cable in his body, and everyone else is on dial up. But that’s still something to manage.”

One other small drawback? His footwork needs fine-tuning, but that, most of these coaches believe, could be cleaned up over an offseason or two.

C.J. Stroud

Ceiling comp: Shorter, quicker Matt Ryan

As coaches have studied the class, Stroud seems to have settled in as the quarterback who you have to project the least on. “Finally, the light bulb went on for me with him,” says an NFC quarterbacks coach. “I love him. He’s the safest pick of these top guys, and if I’m Carolina, I pick him [No. 1]. He does everything well. What’s missing comes down to running. He’s shown he can run; he just doesn’t, or hasn’t shown it consistently, like he did in the Georgia game, where he can create a play outside the play that was called. … It’s like with [Kirk] Cousins—what’s keeping him from being a blue-chip player is how much he does on his own. … But he’s the best passer of the class, he throws the appropriate ball almost every time, right amount of air, location, it’s on time, and it’s easy for him. He’s very natural.” An NFC passing-game coordinator adds, “He’s definitely the purest passer of the group, and one of the more pure passers to come out in a while. He’s accurate to all levels, understands how to pace the ball, and throws a really catchable ball underneath.” And an AFC pass-game coordinator piggybacks on that, saying, “He throws it really well. I’m not sure what his elite trait is. But I like him. I think he’s solid player and a really accurate passer.”

What makes Stroud’s evaluation a bit difficult for teams is how that Georgia game—through which Stroud shined, playing the toughest, most talented defense he faced as a collegian—looked different from all his other starts. It was like he was answering all the questions at once. “The athleticism is the only question, and against Georgia, he moves around, he eludes the rush,” says an NFC offensive coordinator. “And you see arm strength, the ability to throw the football, the decision-making was really good. He’s not a runner, but in a drop-back game, you saw he was good enough to avoid and not take sacks.” Another NFC quarterbacks coach adds, “You watch that Georgia game; it’s really good. … It’s possible the light just turned on for him. The game is changing with guys who can create, so it could be as simple as him watching guys like [Patrick] Mahomes, Allen, and saying, I can do that. There’s a fine line coaching that, too, but they seemed to get there against Georgia.”

Another NFC offensive coordinator mentioned a bit of a robotic delivery with Stroud that is common in quarterbacks who’ve come out of Ohio State, but agreed with a few others that Ryan Day and the Buckeyes staff seemed to be giving Stroud a little more responsibility at the line than they had with Dwayne Haskins and Justin Fields, which is a good sign that he’ll adapt easily to an NFL offense. “With Dwayne and Justin, the types of concepts they had, they were half-field reads, high-lows, easy stuff for colleges to do,” says our first NFC QBs coach. “In a lot of cases, it was read the corner and go. A good college offense. And with C.J., you saw more full-field reads, more back-to-the-defense play-action, NFL-style reads that are difficult. That got me off [the comparison]. The thing that is still there, is he had better players around him than everyone. His wideouts would be worse in Carolina than they were last year at Ohio State.”

Conversely, there have been some questions about maturity (in how he’s taken criticism from the outside) and willingness to stick his nose in there and run (another one he answered against Georgia). “Sometimes, he’d turn down runs,” says an AFC OC. “He doesn’t always make plays with his legs. He’s not a dynamic athlete by any stretch. He’s good enough. If he plays like he did in playoffs, you’re getting a really good quarterback—you’re betting a little on that being what you’ll get. Hopefully, he’s grown and matured through it. He’s a really good player, got all you need to ask for in a quarterback. He’s first overall-worthy.”

And some of that growth will have to go back to how he handles things getting jumbled and chaotic on him. “I saw some teams heat him up playing Cover Zero,” says an NFC passing-game coordinator. “And I’d love to get answers from him of what he was seeing, and where he was going on those looks. … I know he can process. But in those situations, does he click through it, one, two, three? I want to see it more. … You see a lot more [of him] throwing in rhythm on one-hitch timing.”

From a technical standpoint, too, there’s a little that can be worked over, to make him more efficient. “He gets a little wide in his base,” says our NFC OC. And there was some concern over an aptitude test score, but he did well enough in his meetings to allay some of those worries.
 
yup…none of the other guys you mentioned were viewed as hands down better prospects when they cane out…if they were they would’ve been taken much higher than they were.

Burrow and Lawrence were guys who at no point were rumored to be going any less than 3.

Mahomes and Watson were guys that had actual legit concerns around their health & play styles…which is how/why a bum like Mitch Trubisky was able to go much higher in the draft than they were..both were selected outside of the top 10.

Allen had legit concerns about comp faced & accuracy. I forget about what it was exactly with Herbert but the Dolphins thought enough of those concerns to take Tua over him…

Stroud has never been rumored to go any lower than 4 to Indy. He has the measureables, he has the accuracy..he has the arm strength, demeanor and personality, film….everything. The concerns regarding his reluctance to use his legs was answered in the college football playoffs…this S2 nonsense is just that nonsense.
Everything you argue here is in relation to their draft class.

I said last year, when everyone was looking forward to Bryce Young, that if Bryce Young is the best QB in the class, it's not a good class. CJ Stroud may very well be the best QB in this class, but it's being argued that Erkel may be better.

So I've asked, coming out of college, would anyone argue for Bryce Young over Patrick Mahomes. I'd love to hear that argument & if it's "he's never been projected lower than 2" That really doesn't answer the question. Like I said, that's more reflective of the draft class than the two QBs.

Same thing for Stroud. On draft day, you're projecting Stroud to be a better QB than Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? You're picking Stroud over those two prospects?

I'd love to hear the argument.
 
Everything you argue here is in relation to their draft class.

I said last year, when everyone was looking forward to Bryce Young, that if Bryce Young is the best QB in the class, it's not a good class. CJ Stroud may very well be the best QB in this class, but it's being argued that Erkel may be better.

So I've asked, coming out of college, would anyone argue for Bryce Young over Patrick Mahomes. I'd love to hear that argument & if it's "he's never been projected lower than 2" That really doesn't answer the question. Like I said, that's more reflective of the draft class than the two QBs.

Same thing for Stroud. On draft day, you're projecting Stroud to be a better QB than Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? You're picking Stroud over those two prospects?

I'd love to hear the argument.
Quoted for truth

It's not about how they matchup with this draft class. It's how they matchup with Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert etc... talentwise. I would argue none of these QB's have the god given ability to be in the group I listed above.
 
Everything you argue here is in relation to their draft class.

I said last year, when everyone was looking forward to Bryce Young, that if Bryce Young is the best QB in the class, it's not a good class. CJ Stroud may very well be the best QB in this class, but it's being argued that Erkel may be better.

So I've asked, coming out of college, would anyone argue for Bryce Young over Patrick Mahomes. I'd love to hear that argument & if it's "he's never been projected lower than 2" That really doesn't answer the question. Like I said, that's more reflective of the draft class than the two QBs.

Same thing for Stroud. On draft day, you're projecting Stroud to be a better QB than Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? You're picking Stroud over those two prospects?

I'd love to hear the argument.

Its not a stretch to believe Bryce or even Stroud would’ve had plenty of folks advocating for them over Mahomes or any of the other guys bro. Specifically with Bryce, he has 3 stellar seasons of great production on tape, a heisman and a national championship under his belt. What you & others are doing is letting the bias of what Mahomes & those other guys have become in the NFL creep into your thoughts on this, while also heavily weighing the measureables aspect..& the scouting process doesn’t work like that…Unless the prospect is thought to be an uber talent like Mike Vick or Peyton Manning. The tape just matters more.

As it is now with Bryce over Stroud, there would’ve been lots of scouts and people arguing for Bryce over Mahomes for the same reasons. Bryce’s career at Bama compared to Mahomes’ at Tech….really no contest there….check for Bryce and Stroud over all the prospects except Joe Burrow.

The concerns over Mahomes’ wildness & gunslinger mentality vs, Bryce’s seemingly controlled, field general-like approach….check for Bryce & Stroud over him.

Questions about the air-raid, gimmicky system Mahomes played in vs Bryce running a pro-style offense at a top program…. being called by a former NFL OC/HC…check for Bryce over most of those other guys as well.

The only place Mahomes & the others grade out better over Bryce out right is the same as it is for Stroud right now….in the measurables and arm talent…And while we know NFL scouts go a little too bonkers for those 2 things, Apparently they didn’t go too bonkers for Mahomes’ measureables and arm talent b/c Mitch Trubisky got drafted WELL ahead of Mahomes……..basically b/c he played well for 1 season.

Plus if we take these guys at their word that the “tape holds the most weight”, Bryce’s tape along with the other variables i listed puts him in the convo as the more polished prospect coming out than almost every qb drafted in the top 10 over the last 10 years. Stroud the same.

If Mahomes was coming out this year with Bryce & Stroud, he’d likely be what Josh Allen was considered when he came out…& what Anthony Richardson is in this draft…a guy that has the obvious highest ceiling…but with some obvious flaws that needs a little seasoning that you as a team are unsure of whether you want to risk taking that high to find out if he can reach it.

Its important to note too, Mahomes sat his 1st year..Herbert sat for like 1/2 a season as well…would’ve sat the whole season as well if he weren’t pressed into action. Burrow basically sat his 1st year as well after tearing his ACL.
 
Its not a stretch to believe Bryce or even Stroud would’ve had plenty of folks advocating for them over Mahomes or any of the other guys bro. Specifically with Bryce, he has 3 stellar seasons of great production on tape, a heisman and a national championship under his belt. What you & others are doing is letting the bias of what Mahomes & those other guys have become in the NFL creep into your thoughts on this, while also heavily weighing the measureables aspect..& the scouting process doesn’t work like that…Unless the prospect is thought to be an uber talent like Mike Vick or Peyton Manning. The tape just matters more.

As it is now with Bryce over Stroud, there would’ve been lots of scouts and people arguing for Bryce over Mahomes for the same reasons. Bryce’s career at Bama compared to Mahomes’ at Tech….really no contest there….check for Bryce and Stroud over all the prospects except Joe Burrow.

The concerns over Mahomes’ wildness & gunslinger mentality vs, Bryce’s seemingly controlled, field general-like approach….check for Bryce & Stroud over him.

Questions about the air-raid, gimmicky system Mahomes played in vs Bryce running a pro-style offense at a top program…. being called by a former NFL OC/HC…check for Bryce over most of those other guys as well.

The only place Mahomes & the others grade out better over Bryce out right is the same as it is for Stroud right now….in the measurables and arm talent…And while we know NFL scouts go a little too bonkers for those 2 things, Apparently they didn’t go too bonkers for Mahomes’ measureables and arm talent b/c Mitch Trubisky got drafted WELL ahead of Mahomes……..basically b/c he played well for 1 season.

Plus if we take these guys at their word that the “tape holds the most weight”, Bryce’s tape along with the other variables i listed puts him in the convo as the more polished prospect coming out than almost every qb drafted in the top 10 over the last 10 years. Stroud the same.

If Mahomes was coming out this year with Bryce & Stroud, he’d likely be what Josh Allen was considered when he came out…& what Anthony Richardson is in this draft…a guy that has the obvious highest ceiling…but with some obvious flaws that needs a little seasoning that you as a team are unsure of whether you want to risk taking that high to find out if he can reach it.

Its important to note too, Mahomes sat his 1st year..Herbert sat for like 1/2 a season as well…would’ve sat the whole season as well if he weren’t pressed into action. Burrow basically sat his 1st year as well after tearing his ACL.
Heisman and National Championship winning QBs

Charlie Ward
Danny Wuerffel
Matt Leinart
Cam Newton
Jameis Winston
 
Heisman and National Championship winning QBs

Charlie Ward
Danny Wuerffel
Matt Leinart
Cam Newton
Jameis Winston

Still speaks to leadership. Shall i name the plethora of Texas Tech qb’s & other qbs with big arms that put up big numbers in air raid offenses that flamed out or did nothing? List is kinda long.
 
Still speaks to leadership. Shall i name the plethora of Texas Tech qb’s & other qbs with big arms that put up big numbers in air raid offenses that flamed out or did nothing? List is kinda long.
I'm not the one who brought up Heisman winners who won the national championship. I just gave you the modern day list. The 2018 Ford Escape might be the best car on the used car lot. That does not mean I'm buying it.
 
Specifically with Bryce, he has 3 stellar seasons of great production on tape, a heisman and a national championship under his belt. What you & others are doing is letting the bias of what Mahomes & those other guys have become in the NFL creep into your thoughts on this, while also heavily weighing the measureables aspect..& the scouting process doesn’t work like that…Unless the prospect is thought to be an uber talent like Mike Vick or Peyton Manning. The tape just matters more.

Absolutely not.

None of them were perfect. But they were just as productive in college, plus their measurables are better.

Russell Wilson... I would not have argued Russell Wilson would be a better prospect than Bryce Young or CJ Stroud. If the guys I mentioned were in this draft, Bryce Young would have been considered a 3rd round pick.
 
I'm not the one who brought up Heisman winners who won the national championship. I just gave you the modern day list. The 2018 Ford Escape might be the best car on the used car lot. That does not mean I'm buying it.


Uhh huh….when u make a credible point that makes sense let me know, i’ll be sure to respond.
 
Absolutely not.

None of them were perfect. But they were just as productive in college, plus their measurables are better.

Russell Wilson... I would not have argued Russell Wilson would be a better prospect than Bryce Young or CJ Stroud. If the guys I mentioned were in this draft, Bryce Young would have been considered a 3rd round pick.

Trubisky nor Allen were as productive…had 1 pretty good year.. & its Your opinion obviously, but again in alot of those cases those guys weren’t even the #1 qb prospects in their own draft classes & in mahomes’ case lost out to a lesser prospect on paper than Young and Stroud.

Im not saying either guy would have definitely been the top prospect, obviously we’ll never know, but dismissing Young as a 3rd round pick with his resume and tape probably wasn’t going to happen either. Hirts was a 2nd rounder himself and the thought on him was that he needed to become a more polished passer….Something Young & Stroud both already are. So what you’re saying is Young would’ve been a 3rd rounder PURELY based on his measurables…b/c the only REAL knock on Young is his height.

But with what Brees and Wilson have been able to do in the league…& now with Mayfield Murray recently…teams have shown that the height thing is less of a concern these days than maybe in years past.
 
Something Young & Stroud both already are. So what you’re saying is Young would’ve been a 3rd rounder PURELY based on his measurables…b/c the only REAL knock on Young is his height.
Yes. Next to prospects who check all the boxes and more, yes.
But with what Brees and Wilson have been able to do in the league…& now with Mayfield Murray recently…
:thinking:

What you & others are doing is letting the bias of what Mahomes & those other guys have become in the NFL creep into your thoughts on this
 
Yes. Next to prospects who check all the boxes and more, yes.

:thinking:

I was only pointing out that scouts & NFL teams are no longer as heavily influenced by the measurables like apparently some fans still are. Teams have less and less qualms about selecting a guy high in the draft who doesn’t fit the prototype mold as long as the production is there. The guys i named sort of prove that. So your thesis about Young was correct…….back in 1993..Not so much today.
 
Quoted for truth

It's not about how they matchup with this draft class. It's how they matchup with Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert etc... talentwise. I would argue none of these QB's have the god given ability to be in the group I listed above.
Your opinion, can't argue opinion and everyone has one. If Allen wasn't throwing balls in the dirt in college and had the accuracy of Stroud does now, he would've been drafted higher. He was a project and took to high end coaching. Same as Mahomes. Burrow as junior was probably a 3rd or 4th rd pick, but again, Joe Brady and LSU talent catapulted him to the #1 pick. Nobody, I mean nobody has Burrow rated high after transferring from Ohio St. If they sat they did, they are lying
 
I was only pointing out that scouts & NFL teams are no longer as heavily influenced by the measurables like apparently some fans still are. Teams have less and less qualms about selecting a guy high in the draft who doesn’t fit the prototype mold as long as the production is there. The guys i named sort of prove that. So your thesis about Young was correct…….back in 1993..Not so much today.
The only evidence of that is Kyler Murray & I think that was a mistake. I think everyone but the Cardinals think it was a mistake.

& again there haven’t been any QB drafted with a top 5 pick, except that one guy that only one poster knows, that didn’t weigh 200lbs. There is no draft history “evidence” that supports Bryce Young
 
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The only evidence of that is Kyler Murray & I think that was a mistake. I think everyone but the Cardinals think it was a mistake.

& again there haven’t been any QB drafted with a top 5 pick, except that one guy that only one poster knows, that didn’t weigh 200lbs. There is no draft history “evidence” that supports Bryce Young

Kyler's problem is being a lazy prick of JaMarcus Russell proportions, not being short. Still a top-15 QB with all that.
 
So I've asked, coming out of college, would anyone argue for Bryce Young over Patrick Mahomes.

Possibly.

Remember, Mahomes wasn't thought to be a generational talent coming out.

Mahomes had knocks on his mechanics, the system he played in...Wasn't the biggest or the fastest...
A lot of people had Watson and Trubisky ahead of Pat and the Bears had Trubisky as the top rated QB...We know this because they took him 2nd overall ahead of Watson and Mahomes who both fell to the edge of the top 10. At the time that was not thought of as a highly rated QB class...

So the real question is would anyone argue Bryce Young or Stroud over Trubisky coming out of College and I think the obvious answer is hell yes.
 
The only evidence of that is Kyler Murray & I think that was a mistake. I think everyone but the Cardinals think it was a mistake.

& again there haven’t been any QB drafted with a top 5 pick, except that one guy that only one poster knows, that didn’t weigh 200lbs. There is no draft history “evidence” that supports Bryce Young

That’s just not true. Theres more than just Kyler. More borderline height/weight guys at the position are being taken higher in the draft these days ahead of the more prototype guys than they’ve ever been taken.

Baker Mayfield isn’t this tall strapping guy…listed at 6’1…probably closer to 5’11-6’0..gets alot of balls batted down… may as well be a midget as far as the NFL is concerned. He Went #1 overall over 6’3 225 lb Darnold and 6’5 240 Josh Allen.

2 years later..Tua..another borderline guy more closer to smallish…with health concerns…still went top 5 ahead of the prototype guy Herbert.
 
That’s just not true. Theres more than just Kyler. More borderline height/weight guys at the position are being taken higher in the draft these days ahead of the more prototype guys than they’ve ever been taken.

Baker Mayfield isn’t this tall strapping guy…listed at 6’1…probably closer to 5’11-6’0..gets alot of balls batted down… may as well be a midget as far as the NFL is concerned. He Went #1 overall over 6’3 225 lb Darnold and 6’5 240 Josh Allen.

2 years later..Tua..another borderline guy more closer to smallish…with health concerns…still went top 5 ahead of the prototype guy Herbert.

Josh Allen was the Anthony Richardson of his draft, him not being a bust was a huge surprise at the time.
 
Your opinion, can't argue opinion and everyone has one. If Allen wasn't throwing balls in the dirt in college and had the accuracy of Stroud does now, he would've been drafted higher. He was a project and took to high end coaching. Same as Mahomes. Burrow as junior was probably a 3rd or 4th rd pick, but again, Joe Brady and LSU talent catapulted him to the #1 pick. Nobody, I mean nobody has Burrow rated high after transferring from Ohio St. If they sat they did, they are lying
True,

You really think Stroud has the ability of the guys I listed?
 
Josh Allen was the Anthony Richardson of his draft, him not being a bust was a huge surprise at the time.
Article seems to disagree that allen was expected to be a bust.
 
yup..there’s no way u can watch his tape and not come away impressed with how he slings it..& his accuracy.
We have differing opinions on Stroud's talent level and I dont think he's going to be a bad QB. I just dont think he's a special talent like the guys I listed.

Nothing wrong with that. I respect your opinion.
 
True,

You really think Stroud has the ability of the guys I listed?
Yes I do based on what I've seen. He threatens every blade of grass passing the ball. No qb has thrown as many 15 yd out routes as him nor completed as many at such a high percentage. How many smoke screens do you see him throw? He had the least of any qb in the last years. @Lucky has an article. Maybe he can send it to you statistical breakdowns of the qbs this year. It won't change your mind, but it provides alot of insight.
 
I liked the Green pick, still do, just gotta get him healthy. Stingley not so much and said so at the time. Dammit Lovie, and why did you have to win the last game. Cal reaping what he sowed from trying to beat the Flores lawsuit.
When you watched college football, did you think Stingley was the 3rd best player on cfb and Green the 15th best player in cfb. Yes or no?
 
Possibly.

Remember, Mahomes wasn't thought to be a generational talent coming out.

Mahomes had knocks on his mechanics, the system he played in...Wasn't the biggest or the fastest...
A lot of people had Watson and Trubisky ahead of Pat and the Bears had Trubisky as the top rated QB...We know this because they took him 2nd overall ahead of Watson and Mahomes who both fell to the edge of the top 10. At the time that was not thought of as a highly rated QB class...

So the real question is would anyone argue Bryce Young or Stroud over Trubisky coming out of College and I think the obvious answer is hell yes.
Seems a lot like Levis and Richardson this yr. Sometimes you gotta take a chance. I wouldn't take that chance with QB class, but I wouldn't blame Ryans/Slowik/Caserio if they did.
 
Yes I do based on what I've seen. He threatens every blade of grass passing the ball. No qb has thrown as many 15 yd out routes as him nor completed as many at such a high percentage. How many smoke screens do you see him throw? He had the least of any qb in the last years. @Lucky has an article. Maybe he can send it to you statistical breakdowns of the qbs this year. It won't change your mind, but it provides alot of insight.

Man you've got a lot of confidence in this guy and I just dont see it, he's not going to be bad but he's not going to be as good as those guys. That puts you at the high end of mediocrity which is the worst place to be and a place that this franchise at its best moments achieved. We've seen this before. If the Texans pick Levis or Richardson, whether right or wrong at least for the 1st time in franchise history you can say they took a chance. Until this happens down on Kirby I'm convinced nothing has changed down on Kirby. I'm in the prove it to me stage of my fandom. 20 yr season ticketholder and didn't renew. Prove it to me.
 
When you watched college football, did you think Stingley was the 3rd best player on cfb and Green the 15th best player in cfb. Yes or no?
No I didn't like the Stingley pick, I wanted Sauce, I liked the Green pick. I still think he's got the chance to be really good, Said he had surgery, been working out, in great shape and has even lost a few pounds. Much stronger supposedly too.
 
No I didn't like the Stingley pick, I wanted Sauce, I liked the Green pick. I still think he's got the chance to be really good, Said he had surgery, been working out, in great shape and has even lost a few pounds. Much stronger supposedly too.
Did you think Green was the 15th best player in the country? Yes or no
 
Probably not, but Casino did drop back two spots and picked up an extra draft pick then selected him.
If he has a nice sophomore year will you be happier about that pick?
My post has 0 to do with liking either pick. What I'm stating is one moment, posters want trench players because was a need, but don't want a qb for the same reasons. 2 things can be true in regards to bpa and need.
 
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