battleredready
Noob
Won't it be funny if/when Osweiler is beat out by Savage for the starting job...
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Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million
- Thread starter DBCooper
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badboy
Hall of Fame
uh oh now you went and did it...
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Read it three more times and I'll start making sense.
If we get Brock, I hope they do an honest assessment of where he is & work towards making him ready, regardless how long it takes.
Yes, maybe they made a mistake & he's not ready to go day 1. There will be pressure to start him asap. It's more important that we set our next QB up for success, than to succumb to external pressure.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
It can... It depends on how many of your contracts expire before that time... The Broncos have almost nobody under contract in 2017. The Texans situation is quite different.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I want an autographed Brock Osweiler Texans jersey (framed) if he comes here. It will be worth a lot more in 10+ years. O'Brien and Osweiler could be the next Belichick and Brady. Are you ready to win numerous Super Bowls?
Scooter
Funky
I would absolutely agree with you, if I thought for a second Brock had a chance at being a franchise quarterback. I don't think he is. I think he sucks. I think he was barely able to skate by in Kubiak's system and was benched - not for Manning, but because he had zero command, poor recognition, slow reads and sub-par accuracy. He LOST the job to a guy barely able to throw for 200 yards per game and leading the league in interceptions. Do you think for a second that winning one for Manning was a bigger priority than winning one for Pat Bowlen? No, and Brock couldn't hold the job over 'couldn't play dead in a western' Manning.
6'9" and a big arm - that's all people see. It's most of the reason he got drafted despite a dink and dunk college career. Brock's a pitcher, not a quarterback. Randy Johnson is a monster ... and I wouldn't want him under center. This is what Osweiler brings.
My final question is - 'why?'. We joke about O'Brien's 'guru' status. Well, if you could tag two people in the NFL as gurus, it's Elway and Kubiak ... 'why' are they even giving a franchise quarterback the option of going elsewhere? 'Why' haven't they locked him up? 'Why' is he getting a performance based contract? Now ask yourself ... 'why' is he more valuable to the Texans who have options (though quite terrible) at quarterback than to a team with no one behind him?
Because that was all they could afford at the time.
Another thing, I don't think Osweiler is a finished product, just like I don't think any of the current draft class are finished products either.
The question for O'b is, "Do you think you can work with XXxXxx" & obviously someone in the front office thinks he can work with Osweiler.
Scooter
Funky
Do you really think that if Elway and Kubiak thought that Brock was their guy for the next 10+ years they'd offer him such a weak contract? If Osweiler was the man, they'd most certainly be able to move some pieces, sacrificing some of the defense if necessary to make room. They'd know him best obviously. Brock is Denver's plan B, and offered a plan B contract because they don't see him as the future.
As Denver South or Boston South or whoever's ***** we are lately, we're ready to back the truck up for someone being let go from the #32 team - who is prepared to go into the draft empty handed rather than give him franchise money.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
OTOH, what is their Plan A? Elway and Kubiak, after winning a SB, don't have to worry too much about their job security for a few years. They can take their time finding "the guy." I would not be overly surprised to see RGIII end up there and then they draft someone like a Connor Cook or a Paxton Lynch.
Well if the Texans do get Osweiler they better start looking for another Center pretty quick because it looks like we might lose Ben Jones to the "tacks!" http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/...Ben-Jones-agrees-to-deal-with-AFC-6878463.php And, if we lose Brandon Brooks too, that will be 2 big holes to fill on the O-line! It doesn't do any good to get Osweiler and Miller in FA if you turn around and lose 2 of your starting O-line.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ent-negotiated-since-team-made-opening-offer/
Well, he's 6'7", not 6'9" and his accuracy issues resulted from a gunslinger attitude he regularly got after early success in a game. Give me some examples of either Elway or Kubiak being a QB guru. Name some QB's that either one developed.
He was rated as a likely NFL starter by nfl.com on his draft profile. And what do you mean by dink and dunk? In 2011, he completed 63% of his passes for 4,036 yards, 26 TD's and 13 INT's.
He's valuable to the Texans because he has NFL experience, has learned how to prepare under Peyton Manning, signing him is equal to or greater than any QB in this draft, and signing him means the Texans don't have to break the draft pick bank and can build the team around Osweiler, giving him an even better chance of succeeding.
Scooter
Funky
Why take time finding 'their guy' when he's already on the roster? Because he's not. And we're geared up to pay a lot of money to 'he's not'.
Edit: plan A is Kubiak identifies 2 quarterbacks in first three rounds. Elway does work to make one of them happen. A competent vet (possibly RG3 for near minimum) and 3 late round/UDFA show up. One of these is a fit and the Broncos win 13 games. Brock wins 7 for us at 21mil.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
From what I'm hearing, we're not paying "a lot" of money IF he is The Guy. With our cap situation, both now and in the future, we can cut ties with him if someone else on our roster outperforms him.
Elway and Kubiak can take several years now to find and develop a guy. And the guy that performs best in Kubiak's offense is not going to be the same guy who performs best in OB's system. Given the fact that Osweiler is rumored to not like Kubiak's offense AND to have a bad taste in his mouth after being pulled for Manning, Elway and Kubiak may just be cutting their losses, making a show of what they're willing to offer, but not really wanting a possible locker room cancer because of his previous experience with Kubiak.
From our point of view, we can pay a bit of money to bring Osweiler in here, let him compete with Savage and whichever rookie we draft (Hackenberg or Cook), and whatever happens, we should end up with better QB play than we had last year or the year before.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
So, is it always a mistake to sign free agents?
Scooter
Funky
Attitude affects accuracy? Kubiak has Young, Elway, Plummer, Schaub, Flacco, Osweiler and crippled Manning on his resume ... Gu-muthafuckin-Ru. And they as former quarterbacks have at least 7 rings between them. I mean by dink and dunk that I watched his games while scouting that year and that's what I saw - it was a wide catch and run offense. You've got the stats, find the range of those completions. I bet he had more completions behind the line of scrimmage than he did of any noticeable distance.
Scooter
Funky
Yes, it's always a mistake to sign shitty free agents.
Really??? Plummer and Schaub are the only QB's Kubiak truly developed. Hardly HOF credentials. Based on your reasoning, OB developed Tom Brady.
Osweiler's college stats. I'll take his 2011 stats any day of the week. 7.8 Y/A is pretty healthy.
And yes, attitude affects accuracy. Think about it before you respond. It's very obvious.
Delete
Scooter
Funky
Developed from scratch is short sighted. I just listed the quarterbacks who Kubiak took to their highest potential which is a pretty decent list across 20+ years and 4 Superbowls. This including 2 (now 3) hall of famers crediting Kubiak for their rings. O'Brien is damn near the only member of the Patriots without a ring ... and he's done nothing anywhere else either.
You're showing me base numbers, and 26-13 TD/INT in college isn't very good. Now show me where those passes landed in his dink and dunk offense.
No, the vast majority of those QB's were already at their highest potential when Kubiak coached them. I'll concede Flacco, since he had his best statistical season under Kubiak.
You're the one making the dink and dunk argument. You show me. 2:1 TD:INT ratio is considered good just about everywhere.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
You're being loose with your phrase "took to their highest potential". Young was already an NFL MVP and considered the best QB in the game before the ONE season Kubiak was the QB coach there. Just because the 49ers won the SB doesn't mean that Kubiak coached Young to a different level than he was already at. Flacco was a SB MVP before Kubiak showed up for his one year in Baltimore. And as far as Elway goes, they were drafted in the same year and he was the man's back-up for 9 years. Manning was already a SB MVP and had taken the Broncos there just two seasons before. I'm pretty sure both of these guys had already locked in their HoF status long before Kubiak ever coached them. So yeah, Plummer and Schaub are on the resume.
Scooter
Funky
No, you're trying much too hard to short his accomplishments, made absolutely plain on the stat sheet, the playoffs and straight from several horses mouths. But hey, what do some of the greatest of all time know?
Wentz ... 17-4
Goff ... 43-13
Lynch ... 28-4
Cook ... 24-7
Prescott ... 29-5
The top 5 this year, none less than a 3-1.
Scooter
Funky
Fine. It seems I'm outnumbered. Kubiak is just a guy. He latched on to Young and Elway. He got lucky with Plummer and Schaub. He brought Flacco down from a great Superbowl run. He had no idea what he was doing with Brock and Manning. I bet he doesn't even get a head coaching job ever again after our 2-14 fiasco.
And to stay on topic, this idiot isn't trying very hard to keep Osweiler. Thank goodness he's a shmuck! SIGN HIM!
And to stay on topic, this idiot isn't trying very hard to keep Osweiler. Thank goodness he's a shmuck! SIGN HIM!
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Woo-Hoo! College stats!
And how many of those guys could realistically be drafted by the Texans and realistically start Game 1 in 2016?
But we saw Brock start half a season for the NFL Champions, with 62% accuracy, 7.15 YPA and an 87% rating.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Listen, I get it. You think Osweiler is crap, and we shouldn't even be looking at him. I'm fine with that. Your proof that Osweiler is crap is that Kubiak and Elway aren't making a harder run to keep him, which is especially insane because they have no other QBs on their roster, and no other prospects.
That's a compelling argument. I don't agree with it, but it's not a bad argument and you could be right.
I won't get into the Kubiak/guru discussion because I like Kubiak and think he's a good coach, always have. But I don't like the "guru" title.
Scooter
Funky
In Schaub's first season he had a 66% completion and 7.8 YPA. How much do you want to pay for a taller and lesser version of Schaub?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Oops. Delete.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Dramatic hyperbole doesn't suit you. You know damn well the point being made. You said MVP Young, SB MVP Flacco and MVP/SB MVP Manning all hit their greatest potential in the one year that he coached each of them.
3 years $45M is not weak for a guy with seven starts.
& if you're paying attention, that's exactly what Denver is doing now. They couldn't do it all until this league year started.
Connor Cook.
In what dreamworld did Kubiak develop Steve Young? How many years was he in the league before getting Kubiak as a QB coach? What next, telling us OB is responsible for Brady?
Elway was a teammate (and in a Superbowl twice no less) long before Kubiak became his coordinator.
Plummer - a QB with six seasons under his belt prior?
Flacco - a QB with five playoff appearances prior to his ONE year with Kubiak?
Perhaps you have a different definition of "develop" as the rest of the universe, but I'm not sure it applies here.
This is laughable.
Kubiak is an avg HC who does good work with QB's. He's not some kind of guru.
Shishkabob
All Pro
in all fairness he did lead Flacco to his best statistical season of his career, and he did turn Schuab into a consistent top 10 QB in this league. More of a resume than our "QB guru" HC.
GoCoogs
Waterboy
If it's a lowball offer doesn't that imply that there is more worth than what is being offered?
Well, in Schaub's first start, he "almost" beat the Patriots. In Osweiler's second, he did.
I'm just kidding here. I don't necessarily want Osweiler, especially not at $15M. However, I understand where the Texans are coming from & nothing we say here is going to change that. Also, when we traded two 2nds for Schaub, we also signed him to a contract equal to the avg starter of that time. This is pretty much the same, except we're not giving up two 2nds.
Flacco had his best year in yds/TDs (His 4th best completion percentage, 2nd best TD%, tied for 3rd lowest interception %, 2nd yds/gm, 2nd rating) might have been bolstered by his lowest sack percentage too. It still doesn't take away from the fact that Kubiak had nothing to do with "developing" Joe Flacco into a good NFL QB.
Schaub was a rising star that lots of folks were after, but the Texans got. We'll never know if anyone else would have developed him, as he never got a real shot anywhere else prior to the Texans. For a 5-year stretch (2008-2012), he was outstanding.
The whole reason this whole criticism of Osweiler is amusing is folks forget Schaub is also a comparison point for contracts.
Doesn't this just SCREAM somebody you'd give up two 2nd round picks and swap firsts for?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051
http://thebiglead.com/2016/03/03/brock-osweiler-worth-a-long-term-contract/
Oh wait. That Schaub guy? He had 161 attempts and a career QB rating of 70.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
The point is average HC's don't win Superb Owls.
Mangler
Toro de España
Hmmm...
So... what's the difference between Brock Osweiler & Tom Savage?
They're both tall. Brock is taller, but Tom is tall enough.
They both have strong arms.... ish..
Brock's been groomed for three years in Denver's offense (two different offenses actually). Tom's been groomed for the last two years in our offense (whatever that may be).
Brock is more athletic. He just is. Not saying Tom's a statue. But Brock was a two sport athlete, originally signing with Gonzaga to play basketball..... Tom was a 5 star QB recruit.
Brock came from a fast paced, screen heavy spread offense. Tom came from a pro style offense.
Brock started seven games, completing all six, with a record of 5-2. Tom has no starts in the regular season. The one game he got to play, he was injured & couldn't finish.
So... I'm Bill O'Brien. My hand picked protege is ready to play next season. However, my GM is going to spend a lot of money on a guy I've never said two words to. What went wrong?
They're both tall. Brock is taller, but Tom is tall enough.
They both have strong arms.... ish..
Brock's been groomed for three years in Denver's offense (two different offenses actually). Tom's been groomed for the last two years in our offense (whatever that may be).
Brock is more athletic. He just is. Not saying Tom's a statue. But Brock was a two sport athlete, originally signing with Gonzaga to play basketball..... Tom was a 5 star QB recruit.
Brock came from a fast paced, screen heavy spread offense. Tom came from a pro style offense.
Brock started seven games, completing all six, with a record of 5-2. Tom has no starts in the regular season. The one game he got to play, he was injured & couldn't finish.
So... I'm Bill O'Brien. My hand picked protege is ready to play next season. However, my GM is going to spend a lot of money on a guy I've never said two words to. What went wrong?
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Shishkabob
All Pro
So with this argument no one gets credit for developing any qb? We dont know if someone else out there would have made him just as good if not better?
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