PapaL
Loose Screw
Sounds like code for "He's tall" that's what he does well; stand up straight.
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Blake Bortles
- Thread starter DocBar
- Start date
Sounds like code for "He's tall" that's what he does well; stand up straight.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Bortles has a great mental make-up. He has fallen back into some bad habits, but he's learning on the fly. We knew he needed to be developed -- his college coach said as much. Being behind darned near all the time can encourage the kind of risk-taking you can't get away with in the NFL. He'll be a better QB by the time we see him, and better still with steady development to and through an offseason and into next year. There are a lot of good pieces in Jville, they're just not adding up to a whole team yet.
Edit, just got a little tougher for B.B.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Edit, just got a little tougher for B.B.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Last edited:
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
He's lucky to have Marquise Lee. If he can get it together having a quartet of Lee, Allen Robinson, Cecil Shorts, and Allen Hurns is not a bad WR corps to throw to at all. It would have been even better if Justin Blackmon hadn't disappeared out of the NFL.
He suffers from all the rookie problems, though. If we had taken him at 1-32 I would not have complained. I didn't see anything that warranted a pick at 1-1, though. I don't think JDC was the right call at 1-1 but we were right not to be baited into picking any QB at 1-1.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I am of the opinion that if Bortles had Foster as his RB and AJ and NUK he would be a better QB. The fact that he's surrounded by a former QB who was a rookie WR last year who is now his primary RB along with (3) rookie WRs while operating behind a OL in the rebuilding process make it very difficult for Mr. Bortles. He will be better next year.
Don't let him run to his right & you'll be alright.
I was impressed with him. He looked better than I expected. I liked his command at the line, & while not a rocket, he has a good arm, & great athleticism..... for a QB.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I think he was rattled in the 4th and was hearing foot steps. You could see the panic in his face in the 4th. At this time, we don't have anything to fear. Maybe he makes a leap in the offseason and the team around him improves...but then again maybe not. Crap shoot at this time.
deucetx
Rookie
Honestly, wasn't very impressed. Nothing I saw made him seem worthy of a #3 pick or in our reference, the number one pick. If he develops and gets a handle of things could become a solid player but you would want something more from that position. Looked more like a mid-first round or late round pick. We can say 'if' this and 'if' that but what you have to go on is what you see in front of you. The whole 'if' probability of one thing or another can apply to all players for the most part.
So at this point he'll need some solid coaching up. Not sure if this staff is up to the task but we'll see.
So at this point he'll need some solid coaching up. Not sure if this staff is up to the task but we'll see.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I like him. I don't see a future elite QB, but I do see a solid tier 2 as his ceiling. That offense has a lot of holes to fill, though.
I thought he made a few plays that that made him look like a very good NFL quarterback. I think he made a few plays that made him look like a rookie NFL quarterback. I think he was surrounded by a team with very little talent, unless dropping passes is a "talent".
I suggest that he won't be a rookie next year and the rookie mistakes might very well drop. It is questionable if the Jags can build a talented team around him, but he could become a very good quarterback that started off with a rocky rookie season..
I think if he was on the Texans with the talent they have, he could easily - and relatively quickly - have become the best quarterback the team has ever had. O'Brien could have "malletted" him and let him learn for half a season before throwing him out there. It would have been interesting to see.
I suggest that he won't be a rookie next year and the rookie mistakes might very well drop. It is questionable if the Jags can build a talented team around him, but he could become a very good quarterback that started off with a rocky rookie season..
I think if he was on the Texans with the talent they have, he could easily - and relatively quickly - have become the best quarterback the team has ever had. O'Brien could have "malletted" him and let him learn for half a season before throwing him out there. It would have been interesting to see.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I agree with this 100%.
I wanted Bortles badly and I haven't seen anything yet to discourage that feeling. Everyone knew he was very raw so it's not surprising to see the rookie mistakes. Hell, I suggested drafting him and forcing him to sit behind Fitz for the entire year regardless of whether he looks better in practice or not.
He's also on a terrible team where he gets very little help. I think he'll struggle the rest of this year and probably some next year. But unfortunately, I think he's going to end up being really good.
I think it was mentioned, their main WRs are all rookies. Lee, Hurns, & three of their offensive linemen as well (& I don't know if they're counting Joekel as a rookie, which they should).
Continuity would help them more than adding new faces to that offense.
He looked like a rookie QB learning on the job. The young WR corps is talented but learning on the job too. Put those guys with Blackmon and draft a couple of OL to go with Joekel and Beatles and you will see a lot of improvement in Bortles next yr. IMHO
The arrow is looking up for the Jags franchise if ownership can remain patient.
The arrow is looking up for the Jags franchise if ownership can remain patient.
I like Bortles, but I think there is a risk that the Jaguars are going to David Carr the kid before he has a chance to mature into the position.
On a different team - like the Texans - he could have the time, coaching, and team around him to allow him to grow into the position.
Unfortunately for him, the Jaguars will probably break him and leave a shell-shocked player to hit the free agency market in a few years.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I can see why he has 16 INTs in 11 games played. He's an interception machine. He threw a couple of pick sixes aka should have been anyways, that our DBs flat out dropped. The one on Johnathan Joseph was gift wrapped for him - think Super Bowl 30 when Neil O'donnell threw it right into Larry Brown's stomach - but it caught him by surprise and he dropped it. He still threw one INT against the Texans. Should have been three but he should feel fortunate.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Yup, and by the time he begins making any sort of improvement (which Carr never did) there will be a coaching change.
TK makes a point by being young, but that doesn't change things in the mind of Bradley. Coaches don't have time to wait for continuity, maturity or potential these days. It's 2-3 years to show marked improvement or you're whacked.
If he's truly worth the #3 then he will respond closer to what Manning did than what Carr did
Which in my opinion shouldn't be the coaches call. They aren't any closer to winning now & the next regime won't be either. It may have been better for the Jaguar's organization to sit him like they originally planned.
Right now he's most likely being told, "It's not your fault." if he starts believing it, he's sure to be the next David Carr.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
And yet, despite that, rookies have been more successful in their first years recently than in the past.
It's so weird.
Not by sitting in the pocket & playing QB. They've been successful because they're cheap & are being encouraged to run more than in the past. The Zone read has become a big component of many a young QBs offense.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
One of the things I learned about the kid -- and for me his greatest trait -- is he's mentally tough with what I call "football courage". Not afraid to turn it loose. Great overall makeup.
I'm taking the other side of that bet.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That doesn't explain Roethlisberger's success in his rookie year, or Luck's or even (to a much smaller degree) Tannehill's.
Roethlisberger was really the first of the "new age" of QBs who were able to actually able to be successful in their first season. That was a great coaching job.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
For some. Others, not really - Luck, Ryan, Bridgewater, Flacco, etc. not zone read guys.
yep. Some QBs are forged by fire as rookies - think Troy Aikman, for instance - while for others they melt into some sort of plastic goop that kinda' resembles a sun-baked Stretch Armstrong.
And then there are guys like Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers who got to sit on the bench and learn behind great ones for years before getting their chance. Hopefully, our boy Mallet is one of these guys.
Ah... I see.
My original statement was that QBs today aren't being developed at the college level the way Manning was back in the day.
Manning was indeed a long time ago. But I contend the college game is changing fast, very fast more recently. When I say "today" I mean the quality of QB's that come out in the last five years or so.
Luck is rare, I admitted as much.
Roethlisberger, though really outside of this conversation, was afforded the luxury of learning in a run heavy team with a great defense.
Why is Roethlisberger outside of this conversation? Did he not come in and excel as a rookie?
Texian
Hall of Fame
The one thing that drew me to Bortles was his ability to direct game winning drives. Primary reason why Belichick drafted the Comeback Kid Brady and the same primary reason why Walsh took the Comeback kid Montana. Shows they have cool calm demeanor to operate in high stress situations.
Tom Brady
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hma8VA-zLSk
Joe Montana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbgJrIq2mAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUim8bniHFU
It was a different game alltogether when Roethlisberger came into the league. From the rookie salary scale, to the offensive rules, to the advances in the college game.
I am saying that the college game is not preparing QBs for the game as well as it used to. When Roethlisberger came out would fit into the "used to" time frame.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The Steelers were a very good team when Big Ben was drafted, Bettis, Ward, Burris, Randle El and one of the better Ds in the league. Their only real weakness was QB.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Think about this, the first time that two rookie QBs met in the playoffs was Texans-Bengals, Yates vs. Dalton.
Now, granted, Yates didn't lead us to the playoffs but Dalton, a dropback passer, led the Bengals there.
I don't disagree that college football is moving away from prepping QBs for the NFL by using offenses distinctly different than what most NFL teams play, I just find it very curious that in this age where QBs are not prepped, we find rookie QBs performing much, much better as rookies than in years before 2000.
Now, granted, Yates didn't lead us to the playoffs but Dalton, a dropback passer, led the Bengals there.
I don't disagree that college football is moving away from prepping QBs for the NFL by using offenses distinctly different than what most NFL teams play, I just find it very curious that in this age where QBs are not prepped, we find rookie QBs performing much, much better as rookies than in years before 2000.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Don't you think Steve Young is kinda bad example in that he had a modicum of success in the USFL before going to Tampa (IIRC), not unlike Jim Kelley's success here in Houston with the Gamblers? Yes, granted, he got his "real" NFL shot in San Fran, where he sat behind Montana.... BUT again, he had a modicum of professional success.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
That said, Bortles was who I wanted the Texans to figure out a way to get for a few reasons:
A) Better future than Schitspatrick and/or Mallet (which is obviously no longer an option) and finally Tom Savage.
B) While he is struggling, it is with JAX which has many problems
C) He's a big strong kid that supposedly BOB likes.
A) Better future than Schitspatrick and/or Mallet (which is obviously no longer an option) and finally Tom Savage.
B) While he is struggling, it is with JAX which has many problems
C) He's a big strong kid that supposedly BOB likes.
In that case, we'll just trade Mallett and our #1 for Bortles, the Jags can go get Mariota
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
bah007
Hall of Fame
This is just my personal opinion, but I think there are two factors that combine to cause this. It's probably going to turn into a very long read as well, so my apologies.
1) The demand for QBs is higher than it has ever been. But the pool of qualified prospects is getting smaller due to the style of college offenses.
College coaches for the most part have figured out that it is much more efficient to take as many decisions as you can away from your 18-22 year old players. Not only are the coaches calling in the plays but they have also created a check system in which any checks or audibles come from the sideline instead of the field. This is better for the team because a coach with decades of experience is more likely to make the correct check than a 20 year old QB. But this is worse for the player in the long run because it stunts their growth in the mental part of the game. Because they are not forced to make these calls, they do not have to understand where or why the changes are being made.
2) Because NFL teams are being forced to take these QBs, they are having to simplify their own systems so they can get these guys on the field.
In today's NFL, a coaching staff gets maybe three years to build a team before you get the axe. So if the front office drafts a QB you need to get that guy on the field as soon as possible. You don't have time to let him sit and learn. The majority of them can not learn and play in a NFL offense right away. So you have to dumb it down for them so that they have a chance. Maybe even take some things from their college offense so that they can have some sort of familiarity.
The problem with this is that NFL defensive coaches are not morons. They are the best in the world at what they do. This young QB may very well have some early success in this simplified offense, because it makes his job very easy. But once defensive coaches get some film on them and learn the tendencies of the offense they are able to adjust. This is the cycle of football. Now the offense needs to adjust to break tendency, but they can't because they are babysitting their QB and he is not growing mentally.
That is why I think a lot of these guys are coming in and having instant success but they aren't able to sustain it. To continue to grow, the player needs to take some of the responsibility in their own development. And they can't do that if the coaching staff is constantly protecting them.
To me I think that is what hurts the most. The fact that we could have both Clowney and Bridgewater in the same draft was unbelievable. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have taken Bortles, but I would have preferred Bridgewater though.
I've been one of his biggest detractors, but thought we would get him once he dropped to 28... really shocked when Minnesota got him at 32
corytx8
Rookie
You are right, we could have had Bridgewater if Minn didn't trade up for him. I don't care what anyone says though, you don't trade up one spot to draft anyone....
He was a value pick once he got past 25. Like I said, I was one of his biggest detractors, but at 28, I would have made a deal.
Still, after the draft I was very happy with Clowney, XSF, Cj, Nix... run the ball, great defense, then we can contend for a Super Bowl with a Matt Schaub-like QB, if that QB had nutts, we might even win one.
As a pure rookie sitting the bench, Young is not that example.
However, he is still a good example of how sitting behind legends and learning can really help mature and educate a young QB.
Young started in Tampa, but had no success. 3-16 record, 11 TDs, and 21 INTs does not reveal a future HoF player. It was his experience as Montana's backup where he was really forged into greatness.
Which was my basic point. Many of these young QBs would be better off if they could ride the bench for a couple of seasons before being thrown into the fire.