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BADBOY college players to watch 2023 draft

TexansFan15 said:
I read something yesterday that some GM’s think Levis is the most pro ready.
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I read this too, and I also read that one GM said that Stroud is the most raw of the top-tier QBs. I'm not sure about either of these claims (it sounds like pre-draft disinformation), but hey, I'm no GM... and it at least makes for some interesting readings.
 
rmartin65 said:
Interesting- he's the last guy out of the big 3 (Stroud, Young, Levis) on my list. His decision making is straight-up awful at times. Maybe it clicks when he gets to the NFL, but I think he's going to be the kind of QB that will cost you 2 games for every 1 game he wins when he shouldn't.
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I don't really like him and wouldn't draft him. But if I had to gamble give me the guy that has the physical traits like Allen.

They were saying some of the same thing about Allen that you said in your post.
 
JB said:
You have to look at the other side also... Most everyone thought Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young and countless others were franchise qb's and could fix the franchise. It's a crapshoot, and that's why you have to look down the line and see what's coming up. If a team is sold on a guy then they should draft him but only if their committed. Have to look at how much better the draft pick is than the next guy on your list
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People also thought Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry and Clowney were can't miss. They also thought Solamon Thomas was the next Sapp. Point being is if you miss on a high 1st rd player, regardless of position, its a big loss and vice versa. The only exception is the qb is the most important player in football maybe even sports. You can hide everyone but a qb. You're qb, if he's top shelf erases players leaving free agency and injuries to an extent. JJ Watt was a generational player but had avg qb play until 2017
 
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leebigeztx said:
People also thought Robert Gallery, Aaron Curry and Clowney were can't miss. They also thought Solamon Thomas was the next Sapp. Point being is if you miss on a high 1st rd player, regardless of position, its a big loss and vice versa. The only exception is the qb is the most important player in football maybe even sports. You can hide everyone but a qb. You're qb, if he's top shelf erases players leaving free agency and injuries to an extent. JJ Watt was a generational player but had avg qb play until 2017
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JJ had below avg QB play.

How many QB's have won a championship be it Rodgers/Brees/Manning etc.. making more than 15% of the cap?
 
steelbtexan said:
The answer is zero
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The reason why I didn't jump down your rabbit hole is because you keep moving the goal post, Until Brady won it was 13%, now its 15%. Nevermind there have been multiple qb's play in the superbowl and championship games occupying that amount of space.
 
leebigeztx said:
The reason why I didn't jump down your rabbit hole is because you keep moving the goal post, Until Brady won it was 13%, now its 15%. Nevermind there have been multiple qb's play in the superbowl and championship games occupying that amount of space.
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Which ones
 
steelbtexan said:
Which ones
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Manning and Ryan both were in the superbowl taking up that 13.5% of the cap that you moved to 15 after Brady. again, i'm not doing it today because in your mind its a % vs the player. We will never agree, so it doesn't make sense to further debate the point.
 
leebigeztx said:
Manning and Ryan both were in the superbowl taking up that 13.5% of the cap that you moved to 15 after Brady. again, i'm not doing it today because in your mind its a % vs the player. We will never agree, so it doesn't make sense to further debate the point.
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So again none won and the only guy to break the trend and only raise the bar from 13%to15% was the GOAT. Can you say outlier? We will never agree because the numbers say you can't have your QB eating up a significant portion of the cap if you want to win championships. I'm sure someone will come along like Rodgers will win a championship but it won't be common place and you would think owners would realize this. But I guess marketing takes precedence over winning championships.
 
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steelbtexan said:
So again none won and the only guy to break the trend and only raise the bar from 13%to15% was the GOAT. Can you say outlier? We will never agree because the numbers say you can't have your QB eating up a significant portion of the cap if you want to win championships. I'm sure someone will come along like Rodgers will win a championship but it won't be common place and you would think owners would realize this. But I guess marketing takes precedence over winning championships.
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Again, if those same cap eating guys are in the superbowl and championship games, the team not winning has zero to do with their cap number %. I don't know why you can't see that. If you have an elite/top 10 qb, he's going to have you in the hunt every year unless you're suggesting not paying them or trading them before its time to pay up. By that logic, neither Mahomes nor Allen will never win another Superbowl. You can take than same % and say no team has won a superbowl with a position player taking up a certain % of the cap whether it be lt,edge,wr, or any other player. That's why its flawed. A player can be the highest paid player in the nfl, but his cap number takes up more or less % of the cap. Brady is the outlier to everything in the nfl in terms of winning superbowls. If you take Brady out of the equation, how many none 1st rd qb have won the sb in the last since 93 or salary cap era? Favre,Wilson,Brees,Warner, thats it. So in 29 yrs, every superbowl winning qb has been a 1st rd qb correct? That means you need a 1st rd qb to win a superbowl unless your name is Brady,Favre,Wilson,Brees or Warner. All those sub 1st rd qbs are hall of fame guys.
 
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leebigeztx said:
Again, if those same cap eating guys are in the superbowl and championship games, the team not winning has zero to do with their cap number %. I don't know why you can't see that. If you have an elite/top 10 qb, he's going to have you in the hunt every year unless you're suggesting not paying them or trading them before its time to pay up. By that logic, neither Mahomes nor Allen will never win another Superbowl. You can take than same % and say no team has won a superbowl with a position player taking up a certain % of the cap whether it be lt,edge,wr, or any other player. That's why its flawed. A player can be the highest paid player in the nfl, but his cap number takes up more or less % of the cap. Brady is the outlier to everything in the nfl in terms of winning superbowls. If you take Brady out of the equation, how many none 1st rd qb have won the sb in the last since 93 or salary cap era? Favre,Wilson,Brees,Warner, thats it. So in 29 yrs, every superbowl winning qb has been a 1st rd qb correct? That means you need a 1st rd qb to win a superbowl unless your name is Brady,Favre,Wilson,Brees or Warner. All those sub 1st rd qbs are hall of fame guys.
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So it's all a coincidence. Ok.

BTW, I'm not all in on Mills is the future. I am all in on building the team, then adding the QB. Rather than settling for a QB in the upcoming draft. I also don't feel like Mills has gotten a fair chance to learn on the job and wonder if a QB is drafted next draft if fans are going to want to move on after 16 starts? I can't wait to point out the hypocrisy.
 
Lucky said:
Why are we still talking about this? The Rams spent $44.7 million against the cap on the QB position last year and won the Super Bowl. It's over. The fabricated argument about cap % is dead. Move on.
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I go by players and you moved the goalposts to positions.

Besides even if you were correct, it's an obvious outlier. So yes, we shouldn't still be talking about this.
 
steelbtexan said:
So it's all a coincidence. Ok.

BTW, I'm not all in on Mills is the future. I am all in on building the team, then adding the QB. Rather than settling for a QB in the upcoming draft. I also don't feel like Mills has gotten a fair chance to learn on the job and wonder if a QB is drafted next draft if fans are going to want to move on after 16 starts? I can't wait to point out the hypocrisy.
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Two things can be true at the same time. The Chargers settled on Herbert. The Bills settled on Allen. Again, there are multiple ways to build, but if they grade any of these qb's as a franchise qb, you have to draft them if you have to get the chance. If they don't then so be it. There are just as many busts at positional players high in the draft as there are qb's. Teams always reach for players based on a hole they have on their roster. Eric Fisher went number 1. Luke Jockel went high as well. Clowney went 1, he's not a bust,but he isn't #1 quality. If you keep waiting and have this roster without a difference maker at qb, you turn into the Colts post Luck. Eventually your team ages out and every gets fired.
 
leebigeztx said:
Two things can be true at the same time. The Chargers settled on Herbert. The Bills settled on Allen. Again, there are multiple ways to build, but if they grade any of these qb's as a franchise qb, you have to draft them if you have to get the chance. If they don't then so be it. There are just as many busts at positional players high in the draft as there are qb's. Teams always reach for players based on a hole they have on their roster. Eric Fisher went number 1. Luke Jockel went high as well. Clowney went 1, he's not a bust,but he isn't #1 quality. If you keep waiting and have this roster without a difference maker at qb, you turn into the Colts post Luck. Eventually your team ages out and every gets fired.
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Or you do like the Lions and Stafford and get your QB before you're ready and he gets too old. There is more than one way but they all involve taking chances and getting lucky
 
leebigeztx said:
Two things can be true at the same time. The Chargers settled on Herbert. The Bills settled on Allen. Again, there are multiple ways to build, but if they grade any of these qb's as a franchise qb, you have to draft them if you have to get the chance. If they don't then so be it. There are just as many busts at positional players high in the draft as there are qb's. Teams always reach for players based on a hole they have on their roster. Eric Fisher went number 1. Luke Jockel went high as well. Clowney went 1, he's not a bust,but he isn't #1 quality. If you keep waiting and have this roster without a difference maker at qb, you turn into the Colts post Luck. Eventually your team ages out and every gets fired.
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I'm not waiting past 2024 to get the QB I want.
 
JB said:
Or you do like the Lions and Stafford and get your QB before you're ready and he gets too old. There is more than one way but they all involve taking chances and getting lucky
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Lions had generational talent in megatron and another hof player in Suh. They had players, problem was Rodgers was just that much better and the Packers were a better franchise. Not only that, Stafford,Suh,and Johnson were all pre rookie scale bonus babies.
 
leebigeztx said:
Lions had generational talent in megatron and another hof player in Suh. They had players, problem was Rodgers was just that much better and the Packers were a better franchise. Not only that, Stafford,Suh,and Johnson were all pre rookie scale bonus babies.
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Three players does not a team make... and Suh as HOF player is debatable maybe. I don't think he has a chance
 
JB said:
Three players does not a team make... and Suh as HOF player is debatable maybe. I don't think he has a chance
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3 time all pro and 5 time probowler , he's close. The old rookie wage scale was very difficult on teams if you were bad for an extended period of time. Those bonus babies, especially qbs took a chunk out of your team from the jump. Rodgers went to a consistent playoff team and sat behind a hof qb for 3 years on a late 1st rd contract. They gave him a deal after his 4th year not knowing he would become what he became. They continued to add talent through the draft and supplement via free agency.
 
leebigeztx said:
3 time all pro and 5 time probowler , he's close. The old rookie wage scale was very difficult on teams if you were bad for an extended period of time. Those bonus babies, especially qbs took a chunk out of your team from the jump. Rodgers went to a consistent playoff team and sat behind a hof qb for 3 years on a late 1st rd contract. They gave him a deal after his 4th year not knowing he would become what he became. They continued to add talent through the draft and supplement via free agency.
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The point I was trying to make was that drafting a franchise QB does not guarantee winning. In my opinion it's much harder to build your team for a QB while he's young enough. But it all comes down to luck
 
JB said:
The point I was trying to make was that drafting a franchise QB does not guarantee winning. In my opinion it's much harder to build your team for a QB while he's young enough. But it all comes down to luck
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If you identify and pull your franchise QB in the draft, 1st rd. you can lock him up for five years on a cheap rookie contract. That is key to building a dynasty if you play your hand well.
I’m going to cut this organization some slack because it’s never been obvious when they’ve had a high pick (Wrong Carr) and just look at the 2022 draft (void of a franchise QB). Like you said it’s just bad luck or karma because only one time did our GM identify and move into position to get one.
 
beerlover said:
If you identify and pull your franchise QB in the draft, 1st rd. you can lock him up for five years on a cheap rookie contract. That is key to building a dynasty if you play your hand well.
I’m going to cut this organization some slack because it’s never been obvious when they’ve had a high pick (Wrong Carr) and just look at the 2022 draft (void of a franchise QB). Like you said it’s just bad luck or karma because only one time did our GM identify and move into position to get one.
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Texans have locked up QB1's in the draft, but failed at building an OL that could protect the investment and give them any chance at developing b/c they've never even had a competent veteran QB to bridge the position for a partial season.

If QB1 is drafted in 2023.....cut, paste, then expect better results. Why? Absolutely nothing different has been done.
 
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JB said:
Three players does not a team make... and Suh as HOF player is debatable maybe. I don't think he has a chance
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Agreed on 3 players not making a team. The Texans have gone through the same thing, great players with no clue on roster building.

I do think Suh is a HOF'er. But he won't make it.
 
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JB said:
The point I was trying to make was that drafting a franchise QB does not guarantee winning. In my opinion it's much harder to build your team for a QB while he's young enough. But it all comes down to luck
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Under the current system your championship window is 7-8 yrs. 5 rookie contract yrs and maybe 2-3 more yrs depending on if the QB is willing to take his money later in the contract (Mahomes) After that the money isn't there to pay for the star level players and particularly the depth that's needed to win championships.
 
beerlover said:
If you identify and pull your franchise QB in the draft, 1st rd. you can lock him up for five years on a cheap rookie contract. That is key to building a dynasty if you play your hand well.
I’m going to cut this organization some slack because it’s never been obvious when they’ve had a high pick (Wrong Carr) and just look at the 2022 draft (void of a franchise QB). Like you said it’s just bad luck or karma because only one time did our GM identify and move into position to get one.
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And even then you can draft a guy like Herbert and still blow the opportunity for a championship.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Texans have locked up QB1's in the draft, but failed at building an OL that could protect the investment and give them any chance at developing b/c they've never even had a competent veteran QB to bridge the position for a partial season.

If QB1 is drafted in 2023.....cut, paste, then expect better results. Why? Absolutely nothing different has been done.
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Because in the 2023 draft you can possibly trade down from first pick get your quarterback Plus still have your Cleveland pic Plus another first and second round in the trade. You have identified several good players that could be added with reasonable trade Downs such as my suggestion of Pick 4 Stroud
pick 8 [Browns as of now]
Pick 20ish trade
Pick 32 ours
Pick 35 the trade
Pick 63 and
74 + round 4 which = a 2nd.

It does not take a general manager to see that you can really surround Stroud with good players.

Cap space can get you some good defensive free agents.
 
badboy said:
Because in the 2023 draft you can possibly trade down from first pick get your quarterback Plus still have your Cleveland pic Plus another first and second round in the trade. You have identified several good players that could be added with reasonable trade Downs such as my suggestion of Pick 4 Stroud
pick 8 [Browns as of now]
Pick 20ish trade
Pick 32 ours
Pick 35 the trade
Pick 63 and
74 + round 4 which = a 2nd.

It does not take a general manager to see that you can really surround Stroud with good players.

Cap space can get you some good defensive free agents.
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Yeah, this is going to happen.

The Texans will most likely be picking around the 4th-5th slot after winning 4 games again and that's not a bad thing in this part of the rebuild.
 
What do you all think of Jordan Whittington-WR Texas if he comes out? He has great hands and is a very good blocker. Very versatile also
 
steelbtexan said:
And even then you can draft a guy like Herbert and still blow the opportunity for a championship.
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That's why winning a ring in the NFL is so difficult. When you get your shot, you have to take advantage of it. Brees and Rodgers have 1. Peyton has 2,but that last one he was worse than a shell. It takes timing and luck or getting hot. Nobody saw the struggling Rams winning it and they did. Nobody saw Bengals getting there either and the did. Both teams are struggling right now, both qbs.
 
Great organizational leadership trumps all. Having said that, like minds attract so it sure does seem easier for them to identify, procure and develop the “Quintessential” NFL Franchise QB. Therein lies the Texan problem in a nutshell.

So when SteelbTexan says, “Agreed on 3 players not making a team. The Texans have gone through the same thing, great players with no clue on roster building.” OR “And even then you can draft a guy like Herbert and still blow the opportunity for a championship.” It all adds up.

Cultural/ Leadership change is needed.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Texans have locked up QB1's in the draft, but failed at building an OL that could protect the investment and give them any chance at developing b/c they've never even had a competent veteran QB to bridge the position for a partial season.

If QB1 is drafted in 2023.....cut, paste, then expect better results. Why? Absolutely nothing different has been done.
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Caserio has Pep to bounce ideas off but really needs a QB specialist to properly evaluate finding a franchise QB. Bill Polian, says you need a grey hair, with years of NFL experience as OC, former QB or coach who’s expertise one can trust. Nobody in the building has been qualified, but one would have thought Bill O’Brian was closest thing, following Gary Kubiak (QB listener). Was working with Watson, then (there are conspiracy theories) the wheels came off the wagon.

Very simplistic, but that’s how my mind works, Texans have hired brilliant specialist’s to become their head coach and that never translated. From Capers, excellent DC to Kubiak OC to O’Brian another OC. All none best fit as a Head Football Coach. Lovie is probably the best qualified Head Coach in Texans History but his downfall will be his antiquated systems and schemes in current modern changes to the game/rules.
 
beerlover said:
Caserio has Pep to bounce ideas off but really needs a QB specialist to properly evaluate finding a franchise QB. Bill Polian, says you need a grey hair, with years of NFL experience as OC, former QB or coach who’s expertise one can trust. Nobody in the building has been qualified, but one would have thought Bill O’Brian was closest thing, following Gary Kubiak (QB listener). Was working with Watson, then (there are conspiracy theories) the wheels came off the wagon.

Very simplistic, but that’s how my mind works, Texans have hired brilliant specialist’s to become their head coach and that never translated. From Capers, excellent DC to Kubiak OC to O’Brian another OC. All none best fit as a Head Football Coach. Lovie is probably the best qualified Head Coach in Texans History but his downfall will be his antiquated systems and schemes in current modern changes to the game/rules.
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Lovie is no fool and has enough wisdom and experience to recognize when something new is being thrown at him plus he will listen to players and coaches to figure it out and keep his finger on the pulse. Iow, he might still have old ingrained ideas, but he is an astute student of the game.
No-one ignores what their eyes can see.
I do agree that a quality QB coach is essential to fully develop a rookie.
 
badboy said:
www.sportingnews.com

NFL Mock Draft 2023: Panthers, Lions, Texans take QBs; Commanders, Eagles go defense in top 10 | Sporting News United Kingdom

In Sporting News' third mock draft for the 2023 NFL Draft, Carolina, Detroit and Houston take the quarterbacks they need early while Washington and Philadelphia are among several teams who focus on improving defense.
www.sportingnews.com www.sportingnews.com
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I'd be just fine knocking out the defense with the 2023 draft, and adding some of the needed offensive pieces.
 
steelbtexan said:
And the way he runs like a tank after he catches the ball. Without injury he's a 1st rd talent. He probably goes in the 4th.

You think he comes out this yr?
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Well, he was a RB, but is in his 4th year now so unless it's for academic reasons, yeah I expect him to come out and think he'll go no later than late 2nd
 
Did y’all see that Lovie attended the UT vs Iowa State game on Saturday? Which defensive players do y’all think he was scouting?

Overshown LB
Coburn DL- could be a mid-rounder

McDonald IV for Iowa St could be an edge option, great motor
 
TexansFan15 said:
Did y’all see that Lovie attended the UT vs Iowa State game on Saturday? Which defensive players do y’all think he was scouting?

Overshown LB
Coburn DL- could be a mid-rounder

McDonald IV for Iowa St could be an edge option, great motor
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Jaylen Ford and Moro Ojomo also as mid to late rounders
 
I assume Lovie can also see offensive players and what they do to defenses. Bijan, Hutchinson, Whittington. Watts and Ford maybe from UT on defense? Mcdonald on Iowa State as edge. He was pretty quiet this game.

Roschon Johnson could maybe make a roster as a late round pick or UDFA??? Seems like he will be a team guy and do whatever is asked of him. I know a team that likes those guys.

I find it hard to judge some of these big 12 defensive players as many of the defenses just look inept, but Pitre was visible last year for sure in a solid defense. So if they don't stand out in the Big 12, I don't like them!
 
TexansFan15 said:
Did y’all see that Lovie attended the UT vs Iowa State game on Saturday? Which defensive players do y’all think he was scouting?

Overshown LB
Coburn DL- could be a mid-rounder

McDonald IV for Iowa St could be an edge option, great motor
Click to expand...
Jamison
 
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JB said:
I think you have Roschon rated too low. He has good size and would be a feature back on any team that didn't have Bijan
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I'm thinking Roschon goes in the 5th/6th rd range. Depends on what type of RB teams are looking for. I'm thinking he can have a Brandon Bolden type career at least. At best he can have a Corey Dillon type career.
 
steelbtexan said:
Man this is a deep TE class.
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I'm replying to this post here in this thread, because I didn't want to derail the Young v Mills thread.

TE and WR both strike me as very deep this year. I know we've talked about it, but I'd be very disappointed if the Texans don't come away from the 2023 draft with 1 more TE and (at least) 1 more WR. There is going to be talent- guys who maybe aren't starters yet, but can play meaningful downs- available at these two positions into the late mid-rounds. Building a strong corps of receivers is a good way to help a young QB (whether that is Mills, a 2023 QB, or a 2024 QB) feel comfortable. And with 11 picks to play with, there is no reason not to capitalize on this.
 
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