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BADBOY college players to watch 2023 draft

rmartin65 said:
SMU vs UCF on ESPN2 this evening has a couple mid-late round guys to keep an eye on-

SMU WR Rashee Rice

UCF QB (but WR prospect) John Rhys Plumlee
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I wondered where Plumlee ended up. I would spend a late rd pick on him as a slot guy.

Love me some Rice.
 
steelbtexan said:
I wondered where Plumlee ended up. I would spend a late rd pick on him as a slot guy.

Love me some Rice.
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Yeah, Plumlee is electric with the ball in his hands- and I don’t say that about a ton of players (at least, I don’t think I do). I don’t know if it all translates ar the next level, but I’m with you, he’s someone I’d have no reservations about selecting late.

I’m reading Rice being mentioned as a potential first rounder- he’s not there for me (yet?), but he is one of handful of larger receivers in this draft I have an eye on at the moment.

With 11 picks in next year’s draft, I’m hoping the Texans doubled up on receivers- one slot guy, one bigger boundary guy. And a TE- Washington would be ideal.
 
rmartin65 said:
Yeah, Plumlee is electric with the ball in his hands- and I don’t say that about a ton of players (at least, I don’t think I do). I don’t know if it all translates ar the next level, but I’m with you, he’s someone I’d have no reservations about selecting late.

I’m reading Rice being mentioned as a potential first rounder- he’s not there for me (yet?), but he is one of handful of larger receivers in this draft I have an eye on at the moment.

With 11 picks in next year’s draft, I’m hoping the Texans doubled up on receivers- one slot guy, one bigger boundary guy. And a TE- Washington would be ideal.
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It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Caserio picked Washington with the Browns pick and doubled up with a guy like Stonger late in the draft. How would you feel about Rice in the 2nd and Plumlee in the 6th. The guy I really want is Achane that guy is electric. I would spend an early 3rd or even trade up into the late 2nd for him.

I really like Ole Miss WR Jonathan Mingo. Where do you think he falls?

Speed Speed Speed
 
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Jaelyn Duncan is an OT prospect out of Maryland that could develop into a starting LT. He just needs to improve some on his run blocking.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
You know, one early and one late sure wouldn't be a bad move. I'd like to see Nathaniel Dell, Houston in a Texans uniform next year. He's small but he's plenty productive.
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I know you said it, but he's really small. And I don't mean just short- he's a smaller-framed guy (for an NFL player, at least), and I don't think he's going to be able to add a substantial amount of mass without compromising the traits that have made him so successful so far. He'd be a non-factor in the run game, not a threat to win any contested throws, etc.

Another thing that I think sometimes gets overlooked with smaller receivers is that they (usually) have shorter arms- this means that they'll have a smaller catch radius, which just forces QBs to be that much more accurate.

I'd absolutely be open to bringing him in as a UDFA, but I think there are other receivers I'd rather see the Texans draft.

steelbtexan said:
I certainly would, there's a glaring lack of depth/playmakers at the WR position and this would be the draft that I would set the skill position players for the next 5 yrs.
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I agree with the first half of your post wholeheartedly. The Texans' receivers are not great. I don't think Mills is helping them out very much, but on the flip side, I don't see them helping him out, you know? Cooks is already at the age where a lot of players start going downhill. Collins is a young guy with potential, but does anyone thing he's ever going to be much more than maybe an average #2? Metchie is going to be a rookie recovering from cancer- who knows what he is going to look like on an NFL field. And the other guys are journeymen. Basically, the receivers room is not exactly brimming with talent.

The second part I'm a little more iffy on- I don't think you can ever truly be "set" at positions. There are always places to upgrade. Additionally, draft picks don't always work out. Mid and late round picks can't even be counted on for anything more than depth and maybe spot starters- anything more than that is a wildly successful pick. And then even in the early rounds, there are plenty of busts.

Basically, I think that drafting two receivers in the mid-to-late rounds hardly sets the position- it hopefully adds some talent. Odds are, neither player becomes more than a 3rd/4th receiver. One likely doesn't even become an NFL regular.
 
steelbtexan said:
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Caserio picked Washington with the Browns pick and doubled up with a guy like Stonger late in the draft. How would you feel about Rice in the 2nd and Plumlee in the 6th. The guy I really want is Achane that guy is electric. I would spend an early 3rd or even trade up into the late 2nd for him.

I really like Ole Miss WR Jonathan Mingo. Where do you think he falls?

Speed Speed Speed
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It all depends on how high that Browns pick is, though, right? As much as I like Washington, I don't think he's worth a top 10 pick (at least not yet). But around 15-20? Sign me up. I'm less sure about adding two TEs, but then again, there are 11 picks to play with.

The second feels high for Rice right now, but who knows. This draft has a lot of guys with interesting size/speed characteristics, and I'm struggling placing them all relative to each other and in terms of the draft class as a whole. Hell, I can't even get the 3 UTSA receivers sorted.

Achane's size worries me, but I do think he'd be a nice player to match with Pierce. But is that worth a 3rd or 2nd? Maybe, but there are a lot holes for the Texans to fill, that seems like a luxury at the moment.

It's still early, so I haven't seen more than a game or handful of snaps from a lot of players, thus I have no real clue on where to rank people. Mingo looks interesting, and falls in that size/speed category I was talking about earlier. If I had to guess right now, I think he goes in the second.
 
rmartin65 said:
It all depends on how high that Browns pick is, though, right? As much as I like Washington, I don't think he's worth a top 10 pick (at least not yet). But around 15-20? Sign me up. I'm less sure about adding two TEs, but then again, there are 11 picks to play with.

The second feels high for Rice right now, but who knows. This draft has a lot of guys with interesting size/speed characteristics, and I'm struggling placing them all relative to each other and in terms of the draft class as a whole. Hell, I can't even get the 3 UTSA receivers sorted.

Achane's size worries me, but I do think he'd be a nice player to match with Pierce. But is that worth a 3rd or 2nd? Maybe, but there are a lot holes for the Texans to fill, that seems like a luxury at the moment.

It's still early, so I haven't seen more than a game or handful of snaps from a lot of players, thus I have no real clue on where to rank people. Mingo looks interesting, and falls in that size/speed category I was talking about earlier. If I had to guess right now, I think he goes in the second.
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I'm thinking the Browns pick falls in the 15-20 range and I would pick Washington.

I look at Achane as a Hill type guy. A gadget guy that could play some receiver as well as RB and KR/PR. I would also look at adding a RB like Roschaun Johnson later in the draft and spending some money on a guy like Mattison in fa. In short I would remake the RB room.

My off-season would hopefully look something like this.

My dream draft would look something like this.

Anderson
Washington
Mingo
Achane
Stromberg

And if I had to trade into the 2nd to get Achane I would. Speed Speed Speed and those guys are real weapons. Another guy I like is Cedrick Tillman.

I would reset the market to sign Roquan Smith in fa and look to add a guy like Mattison also.
 
rmartin65 said:
I know you said it, but he's really small. And I don't mean just short- he's a smaller-framed guy (for an NFL player, at least), and I don't think he's going to be able to add a substantial amount of mass without compromising the traits that have made him so successful so far. He'd be a non-factor in the run game, not a threat to win any contested throws, etc.

Another thing that I think sometimes gets overlooked with smaller receivers is that they (usually) have shorter arms- this means that they'll have a smaller catch radius, which just forces QBs to be that much more accurate.

I'd absolutely be open to bringing him in as a UDFA, but I think there are other receivers I'd rather see the Texans draft.



I agree with the first half of your post wholeheartedly. The Texans' receivers are not great. I don't think Mills is helping them out very much, but on the flip side, I don't see them helping him out, you know? Cooks is already at the age where a lot of players start going downhill. Collins is a young guy with potential, but does anyone thing he's ever going to be much more than maybe an average #2? Metchie is going to be a rookie recovering from cancer- who knows what he is going to look like on an NFL field. And the other guys are journeymen. Basically, the receivers room is not exactly brimming with talent.

The second part I'm a little more iffy on- I don't think you can ever truly be "set" at positions. There are always places to upgrade. Additionally, draft picks don't always work out. Mid and late round picks can't even be counted on for anything more than depth and maybe spot starters- anything more than that is a wildly successful pick. And then even in the early rounds, there are plenty of busts.

Basically, I think that drafting two receivers in the mid-to-late rounds hardly sets the position- it hopefully adds some talent. Odds are, neither player becomes more than a 3rd/4th receiver. One likely doesn't even become an NFL regular.
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When you get a moment, scan a few other sites for opinions on what this WR may bring to the field....even in the NFL. He's a multi-tool receiver that OC's could use many different ways. I believe he's a SWR in the NFL who could seriously expose mismatches. My take, he plays the game far bigger than his physical stature and could serve as an excellent weapon on ST's. If he pops a sub 4.4-40 at either the Combine or his Pro Day......it could help move him into RD5 discussions. This mostly due to his height (5-10) and weight (155 lbs). I was thinking RD6 or RD7 would be a perfect round(s) to roll the dice.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
When you get a moment, scan a few other sites for opinions on what this WR may bring to the field....even in the NFL. He's a multi-tool receiver that OC's could use many different ways. I believe he's a SWR in the NFL who could seriously expose mismatches. My take, he plays the game far bigger than his physical stature and could serve as an excellent weapon on ST's. If he pops a sub 4.4-40 at either the Combine or his Pro Day......it could help move him into RD5 discussions. This mostly due to his height (5-10) and weight (155 lbs). I was thinking RD6 or RD7 would be a perfect round(s) to roll the dice.
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I've read a couple reports, and I watched him against Rice and UTSA. He's a great college football player, and a great athlete. But- to me- he's not someone I'd risk a pick on.

I do think he gets picked, for what it is worth. He is a potential home run, for precisely the reasons you mentioned. I just don't see it translating to the NFL.
 
rmartin65 said:
I've read a couple reports, and I watched him against Rice and UTSA. He's a great college football player, and a great athlete. But- to me- he's not someone I'd risk a pick on.

I do think he gets picked, for what it is worth. He is a potential home run, for precisely the reasons you mentioned. I just don't see it translating to the NFL.
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Dell put up 9 catches for 152 yards and a TD against Cincinnati's vaunted NFL defensive backfield.
 
Stroud and Njigba-Smith with Browns pick. If he's gone I look strongly at Addison. If like I hope Seattle's at 4 and wants Bryce Young, I trade down adding picks. Select above two and then Bijan and Voorhees. This could be our best draft ever.
 
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JRingo said:
What are your thoughts on Quentin Johnson WR from TCU? Looks pretty good to me..
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I think QJ has some Randy Moss qualities, but I’ve become a little concerned with his low production this season. If he doesn’t rebound in a big way…..he may choose to return and transfer to another school for a better chance at the numbers that could assure him of being a RD1 pick. He could probably get those numbers with the Cougars.
 
Dorian Thompson Robinson UCLA qb looks pretty good to me. Wonder if he might be a later round possibility for us if Davis doesn’t pan out..
 
JRingo said:
Dorian Thompson Robinson UCLA qb looks pretty good to me. Wonder if he might be a later round possibility for us if Davis doesn’t pan out..
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For discussion I am curious why you would take a later round QB to replace Davis? If he isn't the guy would you not want a better chance at getting a franchise QB?
 
The concern I have with waiting for QB in 2024 is a good off season after 2022 might move us out of range even with two round ones to move up. Sure you can trade more but that also increases risks and pressure. I was hoping Mills could be that guy but just not seeing it.
 
JRingo said:
Not saying I would take a later rounder to replace Mills. I’m still hoping he pans out. I don’t want to spend a first rounder on a qb in 2023. Would rather add more picks to address other needs.
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Ok if Mills isn’t guy when do we get our QB? Not trying to put you in a corner but interested in your thoughts? Most Mocks for 2024 have Ewers and Caleb Williams going top five with Houston not picking till outside of top 10.
 
badboy said:
Ok if Mills isn’t guy when do we get our QB? Not trying to put you in a corner but interested in your thoughts? Most Mocks for 2024 have Ewers and Caleb Williams going top five with Houston not picking till outside of top 10.
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In 2024, I would also add Maye to the list.
 
Sources I use indicate that 2024 is more of an offensive player draft than defensive. If that is true and we are going to get our quarterback in 2024 perhaps we should hit defensive side of the ball with most pics in 2023. Thoughts? There are several enticing prospects.
 
badboy said:
Sources I use indicate that 2024 is more of an offensive player draft than defensive. If that is true and we are going to get our quarterback in 2024 perhaps we should hit defensive side of the ball with most pics in 2023. Thoughts? There are several enticing prospects.
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What does the offensive side look like for fa's?
 
JRingo said:
Not saying I would take a later rounder to replace Mills. I’m still hoping he pans out. I don’t want to spend a first rounder on a qb in 2023. Would rather add more picks to address other needs.
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Nothing trumps a franchise qb. Nothing, not a single position player. Look in the division, what wrong the Colts and Titans? You can have all the position players you want, but you're not beating Buffalo or KC with average or solid qb play. If they peg someone as a franchise qb, you have to draft him and use those other picks and free agency to surround him with talent. A true franchise qb is the best eraser you can have.
 
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badboy said:
Sources I use indicate that 2024 is more of an offensive player draft than defensive. If that is true and we are going to get our quarterback in 2024 perhaps we should hit defensive side of the ball with most pics in 2023. Thoughts? There are several enticing prospects.
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Why would you wait and possibly have to give up capital to move up to get a guy when there might be the guy guy right there?
 
leebigeztx said:
Why would you wait and possibly have to give up capital to move up to get a guy when there might be the guy guy right there?
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Because you don't think there's a special QB in this draft. Drafting a 10-15 middle of the pack QB means you can win more games, but not championships. I would punt on this QB class. I may even look at trading down and adding a 2024 1st.
 
steelbtexan said:
This yr is a good yr for skill position players. Not so much for the ol prospects in the 2023 draft. Although the center position is fairly strong. Van Pran the Georgia center is a really good player.
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I was asking if we can get the needed players in fa if the draft is dedicated to defensive players as Badboy was asking
 
leebigeztx said:
Why would you wait and possibly have to give up capital to move up to get a guy when there might be the guy guy right there?
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What if you don't believe any of the qb's in the 2023 draft is the guy? The franchise qb you want to tie your future to?
 
JB said:
What if you don't believe any of the qb's in the 2023 draft is the guy? The franchise qb you want to tie your future to?
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That's the million dollar question. Before anyone jump in, before the 2017 draft or the season, there weren't any "franchise" qb's. Anyone know how highly I think of Lil Shanny and Lynch. By the time the draft process was completed, there were 3 according to the scouts. Everyone laughs at Chicago moving up 1 slot and some capital to move 1 spot. The bigger travesty and the repercussions are the 49ers drafting Solomon Thomas over Mahomes and Watson. If they pulled that trigger on either one along with the drafting they've done, they would have a ring maybe a couple right now. Instead, they gave up a 2nd for Jimmy G and a couple of more picks for Lance and Thomas is on his 3rd team. Moral of the story, if you skip 1, you better be right. I mean 49ers,Jaguars,Titans,Chargers,and Bengals decided to draft positional players when they had questionable qb situations.
 
steelbtexan said:
Because you don't think there's a special QB in this draft. Drafting a 10-15 middle of the pack QB means you can win more games, but not championships. I would punt on this QB class. I may even look at trading down and adding a 2024 1st.
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That's your opinion. By the time the process takes off, the same may be said for the 2024 draft class. How many times have people called a great qb class and it fizzles out and a weak class becomes a strong class. My point is the gm or the talent evaluators have to be correct in their assessment because if you're wrong, everyone will get fired or you will be in purgatory. Everyone thought there was no way Elway would pass up Josh Allen. He did and he's been looking for a a qb every since. All I say, just be right because you'll never know when you will be in position to draft 1.
 
leebigeztx said:
That's the million dollar question. Before anyone jump in, before the 2017 draft or the season, there weren't any "franchise" qb's. Anyone know how highly I think of Lil Shanny and Lynch. By the time the draft process was completed, there were 3 according to the scouts. Everyone laughs at Chicago moving up 1 slot and some capital to move 1 spot. The bigger travesty and the repercussions are the 49ers drafting Solomon Thomas over Mahomes and Watson. If they pulled that trigger on either one along with the drafting they've done, they would have a ring maybe a couple right now. Instead, they gave up a 2nd for Jimmy G and a couple of more picks for Lance and Thomas is on his 3rd team. Moral of the story, if you skip 1, you better be right. I mean 49ers,Jaguars,Titans,Chargers,and Bengals decided to draft positional players when they had questionable qb situations.
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You have to look at the other side also... Most everyone thought Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young and countless others were franchise qb's and could fix the franchise. It's a crapshoot, and that's why you have to look down the line and see what's coming up. If a team is sold on a guy then they should draft him but only if their committed. Have to look at how much better the draft pick is than the next guy on your list
 
leebigeztx said:
That's your opinion. By the time the process takes off, the same may be said for the 2024 draft class. How many times have people called a great qb class and it fizzles out and a weak class becomes a strong class. My point is the gm or the talent evaluators have to be correct in their assessment because if you're wrong, everyone will get fired or you will be in purgatory. Everyone thought there was no way Elway would pass up Josh Allen. He did and he's been looking for a a qb every since. All I say, just be right because you'll never know when you will be in position to draft 1.
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You're right, it's my opinion that I wouldn't draft a QB from this class. The guy I like the best is Levis because he reminds me of Allen.

You know what else will get you fired and in purgatory? Drafting a QB because you need one. The guy the Bills drafted before Allen/Lynch/Akili Smith/Couch/Our very own David Carr etc... that gets GM's fired much more often than being patient and drafting from a strong QB class rather than a weak QB class. BTW, did you notice Ewers throwing dimes yesterday?
 
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leebigeztx said:
That's the million dollar question. Before anyone jump in, before the 2017 draft or the season, there weren't any "franchise" qb's. Anyone know how highly I think of Lil Shanny and Lynch. By the time the draft process was completed, there were 3 according to the scouts. Everyone laughs at Chicago moving up 1 slot and some capital to move 1 spot. The bigger travesty and the repercussions are the 49ers drafting Solomon Thomas over Mahomes and Watson. If they pulled that trigger on either one along with the drafting they've done, they would have a ring maybe a couple right now. Instead, they gave up a 2nd for Jimmy G and a couple of more picks for Lance and Thomas is on his 3rd team. Moral of the story, if you skip 1, you better be right. I mean 49ers,Jaguars,Titans,Chargers,and Bengals decided to draft positional players when they had questionable qb situations.
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All of the teams you listed are likely to make the playoffs.
 
Bills drafted Josh Allen, after Tyrod Taylor had them in the playoffs the season before.

Josh Allen leads them to a 6-10 season and like Texans fans, thought the team had picked the wrong guy. Allen had a foundation in place when he arrived, and the team fortified that team over the next couple of drafts. Allen had a coming out party in his second season.

The Texans were the polar opposite of the Bills the season before Mills was drafted. There was no foundation. Only bad contracts, a bad cap situation, bad players, no RD1 picks, bad coaches, and a FO in total disarray.

Caserio has given the Texans a decent half draft and a fairly nice full draft to start building a core. Next season, there’ll finally be some workable cap space, and draft with a full compliment of picks, and a nice returning core to build around.

At the moment, I’m not moving on another QB1 investment via the draft until there’s a better foundation in place. If Davis Mills completely shites the bed, which he hasn’t done this season, then pull him and give Kyle Allen a shot. If Allen doesn’t produce, then it’s time for a veteran investment to bridge the position. Mills and Allen would still compete with a veteran in 2023….but in the end, one would go.
 
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steelbtexan said:
No

It's a very weak WR/TE group in FA.
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If you get a moment, go check out the TE monster Bethune-Cookman has hiding on their roster.

Kemari Averett is a 6-6 @ 260 lbs basketball player who turned to football. Hard worker who’s trying to emulate TE Shannon Sharpe’s game. His numbers are pretty impressive.
 
steelbtexan said:
The guy I like the best is Levis because he reminds me of Allen.
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Interesting- he's the last guy out of the big 3 (Stroud, Young, Levis) on my list. His decision making is straight-up awful at times. Maybe it clicks when he gets to the NFL, but I think he's going to be the kind of QB that will cost you 2 games for every 1 game he wins when he shouldn't.
 
steelbtexan said:
You're right, it's my opinion that I wouldn't draft a QB from this class. The guy I like the best is Levis because he reminds me of Allen.

You know what else will get you fired and in purgatory? Drafting a QB because you need one. The guy the Bills drafted before Allen/Lynch/Akili Smith/Couch/Our very own David Carr etc... that gets GM's fired much more often than being patient and drafting from a strong QB class rather than a weak QB class. BTW, did you notice Ewers throwing dimes yesterday?
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Ewers looked great against Bama and then yesterday. The shots from behind the QB make his throws look even better the way he was throwing to windows or dropping dimes over defenders. They noticed what I did though, his footwork is still a mess. How he does all that with crappy footwork is beyond me. I think Ewers is a better prospect then all the other hype machines right now, and Sark should coach him up further. Stroud is doing it with such a talent differential I still don't trust his game translates, yet. Most games when the talent differential shrinks, his stats become much more regular. Last seasons post season game he lit it up though so there are exceptions. I guess I still cannot get over all the Ohio State QB flame outs
 
steelbtexan said:
You're right, it's my opinion that I wouldn't draft a QB from this class. The guy I like the best is Levis because he reminds me of Allen.

You know what else will get you fired and in purgatory? Drafting a QB because you need one. The guy the Bills drafted before Allen/Lynch/Akili Smith/Couch/Our very own David Carr etc... that gets GM's fired much more often than being patient and drafting from a strong QB class rather than a weak QB class. BTW, did you notice Ewers throwing dimes yesterday?
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I read something yesterday that some GM’s think Levis is the most pro ready.

I’d love more information about his injury and how long he’ll be out.
 
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