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BADBOY college players to watch 2023 draft

badboy said:
from Ian Cummings today:
www.profootballnetwork.com

C.J. Stroud, QB, Ohio State | NFL Draft Scouting Report

Did the Houston Texans get their franchise quarterback in Ohio State product C.J. Stroud? Here's all the information his NFL Draft scouting report can offer.
www.profootballnetwork.com www.profootballnetwork.com
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I’d like to believe it but I think he’s going to have a rough transition to the NFL. He’s gonna get pressured a lot more and he’s not gonna have the luxury of the best wide receivers in the league.
I just think it’s a shot in the dark as to whether he can handle that because he’s just never had to in college.
 
steelbtexan said:
Smith isn't going tobe available in FA.

Devin Bush and Rashaan Evans, Kazir White and Duke Riley will be though and they will be much cheaper than Smith. I would actually true to sign 2 of them. Probably Evans and White. They, along with Harris would be massive upgrades over the current LB group. This and investing a couple rd. 1-2 picks on the DL and this defense would look quite different.

I'm also for bringing in a couple of cheap DT's like Street and Iadonnis to give them some depth/Talent that's currently lacking. The only thing that I wonder abput is Lovie going to be here after next yr and will these guys fit the next HC/DC's system. I'm betting the LB's can fit any system.
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Your last paragraph is the exact reason why I don't believe in bridge coaches. If you do bridge coaches, might as well do bridge players. Players and scheme fit matters in the nfl. Jerry Hughes washed out in Indy, signs with Buffalo and has a good career.
 
leebigeztx said:
Your last paragraph is the exact reason why I don't believe in bridge coaches. If you do bridge coaches, might as well do bridge players. Players and scheme fit matters in the nfl. Jerry Hughes washed out in Indy, signs with Buffalo and has a good career.
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Agreed, but luckily the players drafted in the last scheme are pretty scheme diverse.
 
leebigeztx said:
Pitre, Stingley, no

Stingley nor Pitre are scheme diverse. Isn't that part of the argument of Sauce vs Stingley?
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Does Stingley look avg to above avg in zone? He looked great in man in college and has looked good in man in the pro's. Disagree about Pitre.
 
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Doc108 said:
I’d like to believe it but I think he’s going to have a rough transition to the NFL. He’s gonna get pressured a lot more and he’s not gonna have the luxury of the best wide receivers in the league.
I just think it’s a shot in the dark as to whether he can handle that because he’s just never had to in college.
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To be fair he is playing without the best wide receiver in college football from 2021 in Njigba -Smith who could come with him to Texans as well as another wide receiver in round two.
 
leebigeztx said:
Your last paragraph is the exact reason why I don't believe in bridge coaches. If you do bridge coaches, might as well do bridge players. Players and scheme fit matters in the nfl. Jerry Hughes washed out in Indy, signs with Buffalo and has a good career.
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Caserio has given us bridge players to go with our bridge coaches.
 
JB said:
You don't think Stingley can play man? I think the argument is can Sauce play zone as well as Stingley
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Sauce is better in zone and man vs Stingley right now. Thats not up for debate, could change. Stingley has been ok at man in some games, but Sutton worked him a bit. If the next coach is a zone heavy coach, then Stingley has to really improve his zone awareness. On that Sauce int of Allen, he was in zone, but peeled back. I like Pitre, but what if the next coach might really like 2 on the rood or a safety who can man up vs being a box safety.
 
20221112_170624.jpg

Got a good look at the Baylor NT Ika and he doesn't really do much in terms of pocket push. His lateral movement isn't good either
 
leebigeztx said:
Sauce is better in zone and man vs Stingley right now. Thats not up for debate, could change. Stingley has been ok at man in some games, but Sutton worked him a bit. If the next coach is a zone heavy coach, then Stingley has to really improve his zone awareness. On that Sauce int of Allen, he was in zone, but peeled back. I like Pitre, but what if the next coach might really like 2 on the rood or a safety who can man up vs being a box safety.
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Why is it not up for debate? Are you saying Sauce hasn't been worked in Zone? I understand it's your opinion that Sauce is better, but that's all it is. I don't think if Sauce was on the Texans he would be showing a great deal better than Stingley is
 
leebigeztx said:
Sauce is better in zone and man vs Stingley right now. Thats not up for debate, could change. Stingley has been ok at man in some games, but Sutton worked him a bit. If the next coach is a zone heavy coach, then Stingley has to really improve his zone awareness. On that Sauce int of Allen, he was in zone, but peeled back. I like Pitre, but what if the next coach might really like 2 on the rood or a safety who can man up vs being a box safety.
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I am hoping a new defensive coaching staff switches to a more man coverage as Stingley would fit that
role well. Pitre is a free who can be a strong but 'lastability' should be as free. Bring in a Jordan Battle to pair with Pitre and a Emmanuel Forbes and defense becomes formidable.
 
JB said:
Why is it not up for debate? Are you saying Sauce hasn't been worked in Zone? I understand it's your opinion that Sauce is better, but that's all it is. I don't think if Sauce was on the Texans he would be showing a great deal better than Stingley is
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Sauce has outperformed Stingley in every aspect this year man or zone. I also don't recall Sauce getting stiff armed to the ground by a rb. Sauce has been better by a wide margin in whatever defense they're in. Hell, teams are already lining their best wr on the opposite side. That's not to say he's been perfect, but he's going to be all pro this year
 
leebigeztx said:
Sauce has outperformed Stingley in every aspect this year man or zone. I also don't recall Sauce getting stiff armed to the ground by a rb. Sauce has been better by a wide margin in whatever defense they're in. Hell, teams are already lining their best wr on the opposite side. That's not to say he's been perfect, but he's going to be all pro this year
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I said he's been good. I just think that if the Texans had taken him instead of Stingley that he would be doing clearly better than what Stingley is doing
 
I noticed TCU won while on way home from Baylor v K-State. Anyone care to tell me how Ewers looked? Stat wise he was under 50% and I know they didn't score an offensive td either.
 
leebigeztx said:
I noticed TCU won while on way home from Baylor v K-State. Anyone care to tell me how Ewers looked?
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Like a freshman with 6 games under his belt. Very inaccurate to start though he did ge a little better in the second half. TCU sacked him like 4 or 5 times in the first half and shut Robinson down. Texas defense was also tough sacking Duggan just as often. It was the lowest scoring (3-0) first half in the Big 12 since 2018
 
JB said:
Like a freshman with 6 games under his belt. Very inaccurate to start though he did ge a little better in the second half. TCU sacked him like 4 or 5 times in the first half and shut Robinson down. Texas defense was also tough sacking Duggan just as often. It was the lowest scoring (3-0) first half in the Big 12 since 2018
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TCU has some nice prospects on their team, especially defense. Like most TCU teams, they don't have alot of depth. We were invited to that game, but my son wanted to witness another venue. We've visited UT 3 times with an offer still sitting on the table.
 
leebigeztx said:
TCU has some nice prospects on their team, especially defense. Like most TCU teams, they don't have alot of depth. We were invited to that game, but my son wanted to witness another venue. We've visited UT 3 times with an offer still sitting on the table.
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Texas very young OL showed their inexperience. But the team did look a lot better, especially Ewers, when they could go at ac faster tempo. Like most do I expect
 
leebigeztx said:
Sauce is better in zone and man vs Stingley right now. Thats not up for debate, could change. Stingley has been ok at man in some games, but Sutton worked him a bit. If the next coach is a zone heavy coach, then Stingley has to really improve his zone awareness. On that Sauce int of Allen, he was in zone, but peeled back. I like Pitre, but what if the next coach might really like 2 on the rood or a safety who can man up vs being a box safety.
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I think Pitre can cover TE's.
 
leebigeztx said:
TCU has some nice prospects on their team, especially defense. Like most TCU teams, they don't have alot of depth. We were invited to that game, but my son wanted to witness another venue. We've visited UT 3 times with an offer still sitting on the table.
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Scholarships will be going fast with Manning coming to Austin.

Are you trying to talk your son into going to Norman?
 
leebigeztx said:
I noticed TCU won while on way home from Baylor v K-State. Anyone care to tell me how Ewers looked? Stat wise he was under 50% and I know they didn't score an offensive td either.
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He was very inaccurate. Although there were 4 or 5 drops.

He's certainly not what I thought he would be at this point in his career. Especially after the Alabama game, where I thought he would be a future star.
 
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steelbtexan said:
He was very inaccurate. Although there were 4 or 5 drops.

He's certainly not what I thought he would be at this point in his career. Especially after the Alabama game, where I thought he would be a future star.
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It’s almost like development isn’t linear or guaranteed, and that the next wave of prospects isn’t always better.
 
steelbtexan said:
True

Have you seen Williams and Maye?

Tell me do they look better than anybody in this class?
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Maye- not a lot, not enough for me to put an opinion out there.

Williams, yeah, I'd put him before any of the guys eligible for the draft this year. He's a great prospect; that doesn't make other players bad prospects, just not as good as Williams.

I know what you are getting at- the Texans skip on QB this year and build up the rest of the team. The problem is- with the improved team- the Texans aren't picking 1-1 in 2024. And since I don't think a team picking 1-1 would be very interested in trading out of Williams, that leaves the Texans looking for a QB. Maybe Maye is shows he is also a better prospect than Young/Stroud- are the Texans in a position to take him? Maybe, it depends on how much they improved.

And what if Maye isn't that guy? What if- as has happened before with other players- teams figure out how to stop him because there has been enough film on him and an entire off-season to gameplan for him.

Or what if Williams (or Maye) gets injured, or decide to walk away from football. Now what?

Drafting a QB at the top of the draft is scary; I get that. And the two guys from this year (I am quite glad to see that people have seemingly stopped talking about Levis and Hooker, on this board, at least- those guys have no business in QB1 talks) have easy-to-talk about concerns (Young's size, Stroud being a Buckeye), so one doesn't actually need to talk football or projection with these issues, making them very accessible/safe things to complain about. But I firmly believe that being scared of drafting the wrong guy is the way to guarantee you'll never get the right guy. Perfect prospects don't exist. There are going to be real flaws in everyone's game, every QB has something (really, multiple things) they need to either work on or around. The trick is finding the guy you think can do that... and I think Stroud may be that guy.

To be clear- I am, again, not putting myself in the Stroud for 1-1 column just yet; I'm probably not going to make my mind on that one until after the college season ends (I don't really care about the combine/pro days for QBs, so they won't influence me).
 
rmartin65 said:
Maye- not a lot, not enough for me to put an opinion out there.

Williams, yeah, I'd put him before any of the guys eligible for the draft this year. He's a great prospect; that doesn't make other players bad prospects, just not as good as Williams.

I know what you are getting at- the Texans skip on QB this year and build up the rest of the team. The problem is- with the improved team- the Texans aren't picking 1-1 in 2024. And since I don't think a team picking 1-1 would be very interested in trading out of Williams, that leaves the Texans looking for a QB. Maybe Maye is shows he is also a better prospect than Young/Stroud- are the Texans in a position to take him? Maybe, it depends on how much they improved.

And what if Maye isn't that guy? What if- as has happened before with other players- teams figure out how to stop him because there has been enough film on him and an entire off-season to gameplan for him.

Or what if Williams (or Maye) gets injured, or decide to walk away from football. Now what?

Drafting a QB at the top of the draft is scary; I get that. And the two guys from this year (I am quite glad to see that people have seemingly stopped talking about Levis and Hooker, on this board, at least- those guys have no business in QB1 talks) have easy-to-talk about concerns (Young's size, Stroud being a Buckeye), so one doesn't actually need to talk football or projection with these issues, making them very accessible/safe things to complain about. But I firmly believe that being scared of drafting the wrong guy is the way to guarantee you'll never get the right guy. Perfect prospects don't exist. There are going to be real flaws in everyone's game, every QB has something (really, multiple things) they need to either work on or around. The trick is finding the guy you think can do that... and I think Stroud may be that guy.

To be clear- I am, again, not putting myself in the Stroud for 1-1 column just yet; I'm probably not going to make my mind on that one until after the college season ends (I don't really care about the combine/pro days for QBs, so they won't influence me).
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I think the Texans are going to be bad next yr too. They have the ammo to move up if need be. If we're playing the what if game, is Young as good as Maye/Williams? Maybe. Is Stroud as good as those? Doubtful. And Young's size doesn't profile him as a successful franchise QB. What if you draft these guys with obvious flaws and hope they can beat the odds, or do you go with the guys with the measurables even if you have to wait a yr to get your guy. Another thing is do you want Lovie/Staff picking/working with the newly drafted QB? I dont. I guess this comes down to how bad do you think the team will be next yr? This is the reason to keep Lovie around another yr.
 
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leebigeztx said:
Sauce is better in zone and man vs Stingley right now. Thats not up for debate, could change. Stingley has been ok at man in some games, but Sutton worked him a bit. If the next coach is a zone heavy coach, then Stingley has to really improve his zone awareness. On that Sauce int of Allen, he was in zone, but peeled back. I like Pitre, but what if the next coach might really like 2 on the rood or a safety who can man up vs being a box safety.
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Then you have to be willing to stand by the fact.....Stingley could never learn to play Zone. Personally, I think that's premature. Stingley is an exceptional athlete whose attributes will translate just fine by the end of this season or during next season if the defense remains Tampa 2.
 
You need a dynamite front 7 for any zone to work period. Those guys getting home fast and with regularity is what allows for the fabric of the zone coverage on the back end to stay in tact…teams try to change up and go to the short quick or quick hitting stuff and that plays right into the zone coverage guys on the back end b/c it enables the cb’s and lbs to be aggressive in jumping shorter routes…

this is what the texans dont have right now and its why we arent getting TO’s (which is what Lovie coaches his defense to do) & its why you’re not getting more from your back end guys…they can’t really be aggressive and jump routes b/c qbs have all day to sit back there and can easily escape what little edge rush we do generate.

bottom line is if Lovie doesnt get better front 7 personnel to help his young secondary….& in particular better up the middle, its gonna be the same thing next year on defense. Carter, Bressee, Sewell, Campbell, Jones…at least 1 of these guys needs to be in deep steel blue next year….
 
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Mr teX said:
bottom line is if Lovie doesnt get better front 7 personnel to help his young secondary….& in particular better up the middle, its gonna be the same thing next year on defense. Carter, Bressee, Sewell, Campbell, Jones…at least 1 of these guys needs to be in deep steel blue next year….
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I'm hoping for two of the above along with an edge rusher
 
Mr teX said:
I know what’s said about Carter..& i agree somewhat b/c that can be coached up…of the remaining guys after him i’d like to see either Sewell or Mikel Jones replace Kirksey
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Where do you think Jones is drafted. I like Campbell a lot.

I'm looking at Devin Bush Evans on fa to fill Kirksey s role.

If the midget is the pick and I suspect he will be, I'm hoping Caserio drafts him Johnston and Washington in rds 1-2. Gotta give the young guy some weapons.

Tell me whayou think of Tuilopu from USC and Mazi Smith from Michigan? I might think about trading into rd 2 for either one of these guys.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think the Texans are going to be bad next yr too. They have the ammo to move up if need be. If we're playing the what if game, is Young as good as Maye/Williams? Maybe. Is Stroud as good as those? Doubtful. And Young's size doesn't profile him as a successful franchise QB. What if you draft these guys with obvious flaws and hope they can beat the odds, or do you go with the guys with the measurables even if you have to wait a yr to get your guy. Another thing is do you want Lovie/Staff picking/working with the newly drafted QB? I dont. I guess this comes down to how bad do you think the team will be next yr? This is the reason to keep Lovie around another yr.
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This for me is the big thing. If we’re gonna hire a new coaching staff with a promising OC then I’d be okay letting it rip with Stroud or Young. But I have zero confidence in our current staff to take a young QB and coach him up.
 
Doc108 said:
This for me is the big thing. If we’re gonna hire a new coaching staff with a promising OC then I’d be okay letting it rip with Stroud or Young. But I have zero confidence in our current staff to take a young QB and coach him up.
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Plus I'm thinking Lovie wont be here after next season at the latest. So the newly drafted QB would have to learn 2 different offensive systems within his 1st two yrs. That's not a recipe for success.
 
steelbtexan said:
Plus I'm thinking Lovie wont be here after next season at the latest. So the newly drafted QB would have to learn 2 different offensive systems within his 1st two yrs. That's not a recipe for success.
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Man I hope he isn’t here past next year. Had a friend predict that Cal wants stability more than anything and that Lovie will be here through the end of 2024 at the latest and I almost threw up in my mouth
 
steelbtexan said:
Scholarships will be going fast with Manning coming to Austin.

Are you trying to talk your son into going to Norman?
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Nah, I'm not talking him into no school in particular. UT is an awesome school and as I've said before, I like Sark from from the senior bowl days when he was there with Pete Carroll. UT talks to my son constantly, so its not like they're going to pull the offer. Baylor even with the blowout loss, the players not in the game were wired up from start to finish and they're getting some really good prospect coming in 2023 also even though my son is 2024. Plus his cousin, James Francis and Ron Francis both went there in the 90s. I'm just there as a sounding board.
 
leebigeztx said:
Nah, I'm not talking him into no school in particular. UT is an awesome school and as I've said before, I like Sark from from the senior bowl days when he was there with Pete Carroll. UT talks to my son constantly, so its not like they're going to pull the offer. Baylor even with the blowout loss, the players not in the game were wired up from start to finish and they're getting some really good prospect coming in 2023 also even though my son is 2024. Plus his cousin, James Francis and Ron Francis both went there in the 90s. I'm just there as a sounding board.
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Awesome, glad to hear you're letting him enjoy his young age/recruitment.

BTW, James Francis was one of the most underrated LB's during his time in the NFL. He could do it all.
 
steelbtexan said:
Awesome, glad to hear you're letting him enjoy his young age/recruitment.

BTW, James Francis was one of the most underrated LB's during his time in the NFL. He could do it all.
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If he was coming out with his size and basketball background, he would be an edge rusher in a 3-4. He was all state in hoops and was offered by many big time college hoops programs. He chose Baylor because he wanted to hoop too. He played 2 years before focusing on football. We watch football every sunday together along with Santana Dotson and most times Lamar Lathom. We were supposed to go to ring ceremony in KC for Kimble Anders, but I was on girl scout detail 🤣
 
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Doc108 said:
Man I hope he isn’t here past next year. Had a friend predict that Cal wants stability more than anything and that Lovie will be here through the end of 2024 at the latest and I almost threw up in my mouth
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If Lovie Smith is going to be fired after 2023 season why not do it after this season? I see Zero reason to keep him another year. 2 seasons is no more "stability" than one and done.
 
leebigeztx said:
If he was coming out with his size and basketball background, he would be an edge rusher in a 3-4. He was all state in hoops and was offered by many big time college hoops programs. He chose Baylor because he wanted to hoop too. He played 2 years before focusing on football. We watch football every sunday together along with Santana Dotson and most times Lamar Lathom. We were supposed to go to ring ceremony in KC for Kimble Anders, but I was on girl scout detail 🤣
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My old boss and I used to go watch Francis and Dotson play at Baylor those defenses were great. He's a Baylor grad and has had season tickets for yrs. Had Singletary already graduated? I cant remember. I do remember Singletary set a record for the number of broken helmets at Baylor. I dont think he would last half agame before getting kicked out these days. Such anice guy, but when he stepped on the field inflicting as much pain as possible was his game. There was centers that were literally scared of him.
 
badboy said:
If Lovie Smith is going to be fired after 2023 season why not do it after this season? I see Zero reason to keep him another year. 2 seasons is no more "stability" than one and done.
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Maybe not practically but if you're just looking at optics then it is. Does it really make a difference to the rest of the league is the questions and I don't think any of us know the answer to that
 
Doc108 said:
Maybe not practically but if you're just looking at optics then it is. Does it really make a difference to the rest of the league is the questions and I don't think any of us know the answer to that
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Optics didn't bother when they traded Hopkins, made JJ mad enough to leave, went through the on again off again with AJ, put up with Watson shenanigans and fired David Cooley then knee jerked into making Smith head coach after the Flores lawsuit.
 
badboy said:
Optics didn't bother when they traded Hopkins, made JJ mad enough to leave, went through the on again off again with AJ, put up with Watson shenanigans and fired David Cooley then knee jerked into making Smith head coach after the Flores lawsuit.
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None of those are similar situations so irrelevant
 
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