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Are Texans sitting on their hands again?

Double Barrel said:
I can't speak for 281Texan, but my own perspective to your question is that I must be mentally unstable, or bored. . .or perhaps a little of both?. . . :thinking: I did get married twice. . .hmmm. . .

I'm a fan of NFL football, and feel obligated to follow the team with Houston in the name. But, I do have to admit I enjoy watching the NFL in general much more than I enjoy placing any expectations or faith or hope in the Texans front office and coaching staff.

Maybe I can just enjoy NFL games in general without being emotionally connected to it the way we are to "our" local team? I don't know, but it's certainly feels like a dog must feel when he chases his tail. Panting and wondering WTF? all over again, year after year. :shades:

I did hope the Texans would be strategically more involved with FA, just because they need depth at key positions and the draft isn't enough to fill it. They've got the cap space, so I'm just not sure if they have an overall battle plan that is going to yield championship potential in 2019 at this point. Wait and see, wait and see. . .
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Agreed, but you're not here pissing and moaning that things aren't going the way you want on the first day of free agency a month before the draft
once was enough for me
 
Double Barrel said:
I can't speak for 281Texan, but my own perspective to your question is that I must be mentally unstable, or bored. . .or perhaps a little of both?. . . :thinking: I did get married twice. . .hmmm. . .

I'm a fan of NFL football, and feel obligated to follow the team with Houston in the name. But, I do have to admit I enjoy watching the NFL in general much more than I enjoy placing any expectations or faith or hope in the Texans front office and coaching staff.

Maybe I can just enjoy NFL games in general without being emotionally connected to it the way we are to "our" local team? I don't know, but it's certainly feels like a dog must feel when he chases his tail. Panting and wondering WTF? all over again, year after year. :shades:

I did hope the Texans would be strategically more involved with FA, just because they need depth at key positions and the draft isn't enough to fill it. They've got the cap space, so I'm just not sure if they have an overall battle plan that is going to yield championship potential in 2019 at this point. Wait and see, wait and see. . .
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You've been enjoying the Patriots going to the SB every year.

Your secret is safe with me DB. :handshake:
 
Double Barrel said:
I can't speak for 281Texan, but my own perspective to your question is that I must be mentally unstable, or bored. . .or perhaps a little of both?. . . :thinking: I did get married twice. . .hmmm. . .

I'm a fan of NFL football, and feel obligated to follow the team with Houston in the name. But, I do have to admit I enjoy watching the NFL in general much more than I enjoy placing any expectations or faith or hope in the Texans front office and coaching staff.

Maybe I can just enjoy NFL games in general without being emotionally connected to it the way we are to "our" local team? I don't know, but it's certainly feels like a dog must feel when he chases his tail. Panting and wondering WTF? all over again, year after year. :shades:

I did hope the Texans would be strategically more involved with FA, just because they need depth at key positions and the draft isn't enough to fill it. They've got the cap space, so I'm just not sure if they have an overall battle plan that is going to yield championship potential in 2019 at this point. Wait and see, wait and see. . .
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After O'Brien told the press "we build thru the draft so we don't need no stinkin' free agents" (I paraphrase, of course) I knew better than to get hopeful during free agency.

per John McClain...
LINK
At the combine, Gaine said his first priority will always be to re-sign his players before looking outside the organization.

"I think we'll be selectively aggressive where we can, based on what's going to be available to us at various positions," Gaine said at the combine. "I'm always going to try to prioritize this: We're always going to try to keep our own, draft and develop our own, and try to sign our own guys to long-term deals before we look for external solutions. And if we have the ability to do that, that'll be my first priority."

Keeping in line with that policy, the Texans re-signed defensive tackle Angelo Blackson, defensive end Joel Heath and receiver DeAndre Carter. They tendered three restricted free agents – kicker Ka'imi Fairbairn, nose tackle Brandon Dunn and outside linebacker Brennan Scarlett.
​
so we were warned. Thing is though, unless a player is Nuk or JJ Watt quality I see the Texans getting outbid for their quality players by teams willing to spend $$$.
That "home town discount" thing is a myth.
 
Section516 said:
One thing to note: Patriots OL coach is top tier, if not the best, top three. Maybe its the TB effect, but top tier scheming/coaching goes into how the players can look. Pre-pats he was overweight and trending down. Post pats is a $ record setting OL. Lets see if he looks like Nate Solder next year.

Our OL coach is ?/32 in the league?
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So why is Devlin still coaching here when the ol has gotten worse every year?
 
TheKDog said:
You don't seem to realize every team has the same salary cap and is required to spend at least 89% of it.
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How youspend it or whether you spend the 11% matters.

Again look at how the successful teams have added players and manage their caps, then look at what the Texans do and compare and contrast. Then we can have a number free discussion.

Would you want to say spend 93% of your cap instead 89 to add a LT to protect Watson. Would you want to spend 95% and add a guy say like Suh to be the inside pass rusher this team needs?
 
steelbtexan said:
How youspend it or whether you spend the 11% matters.

Again look at how the successful teams have added players and manage their caps, then look at what the Texans do and compare and contrast. Then we can have a number free discussion.

Would you want to say spend 93% of your cap instead 89 to add a LT to protect Watson. Would you want to spend 95% and add a guy say like Suh to be the inside pass rusher this team needs?
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On that I agree. But they've already spent $100 million of the $200 million in capspace for 2020 not including Clowney (take off $25 million) a possible Watson extension (another $25 million) about 6 starters becoming FAs and 2 draft classes. Then they have another 6 starters becoming FAs in 2021.

If you are calling them cheap for not spending the last 11% of the salary cap I agree, and I agree they are mismanaging it.

But it's not the case they can sign Trent Brown, Matthieu, an RB like Bell and keep everyone who is going to be an FA in the next couple years. It's not possible.
 
JB said:
Never said you had to agree. I don't agree. But if you have neither faith nor hope for the future, why follow? They are only 1 of 32 after all
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We have a Franchise QB, that's enough hope for any fan for the future. No matter how bad we are, we have the toughest part locked in for a while (hopefully). And, I truly believe that next season when we play a difficult schedule, it will be proven that BOB is a total fraud and he'll be replaced. That's hope for me. My hope is that one day things WILL change. But resigning Angelo Blackson, an extremely mediocre player at the very best to a contract worth $4 million a year to kick off free agency, losing HB, getting outbid by the TITANS for Saffold, and refusing to take any kind of risks whatsoever in a pivotal free agency loaded with the 5th most cap space in the league is enough for me to not have blind faith in this regime. I was born and raised just outside of Houston. I will love this team until the day I die but I'm not going to sit here with blinders on while the decision makers of this team are failing.
 
TheKDog said:
On that I agree. But they've already spent $100 million of the $200 million in capspace for 2020 not including Clowney (take off $25 million) a possible Watson extension (another $25 million) about 6 starters becoming FAs and 2 draft classes. Then they have another 6 starters becoming FAs in 2021.

If you are calling them cheap for not spending the last 11% of the salary cap I agree, and I agree they are mismanaging it.

But it's not the case they can sign Trent Brown, Matthieu, an RB like Bell and keep everyone who is going to be an FA in the next couple years. It's not possible.
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If I was BOB/Gaine

I try to trade Clowney and hopefully get a 1st and a 3rd then use that $$$$ to sign Brown to protect Watson. But give me Bell and a 1st and a 3rd in a Clowney trade to clear the cap space and I'm very happy.

For the life of me I cant figure out why the Texans org doesn't look at things this way. It's the future of the NFL. You get an all pro RB and cheap rookie help for less than they're going to have to pay Clowney and I like Clowney alot.
 
steelbtexan said:
If I was BOB/Gaine

I try to trade Clowney and hopefully get a 1st and a 3rd then use that $$$$ to sign Brown to protect Watson. But give me Bell and a 1st and a 3rd in a Clowney trade to clear the cap space and I'm very happy.

For the life of me I cant figure out why the Texans org doesn't look at things this way. It's the future of the NFL. You get an all pro RB and cheap rookie help for less than they're going to have to pay Clowney and I like Clowney alot.
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I actually do think they are trying to trade Clowney but aren't getting huge offers. Any team will have to pay him $20mil+ on top of whatever draft picks they give the Texans. That's pricey.
 
TheKDog said:
I actually do think they are trying to trade Clowney but aren't getting huge offers. Any team will have to pay him $20mil+ on top of whatever draft picks they give the Texans. That's pricey.
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Yep, but according to Rapsheet teams have been calling on Clowney and I expect him to bring something between a 1st and a 3rd and the 2020 2nd the 49ers traded for Ford. Maybe a 2019 1st and a 2020 3rd type deal.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, but according to Rapsheet teams have been calling on Clowney and I expect him to bring something between a 1st and a 3rd and the 2020 2nd the 49ers traded for Ford. Maybe a 2019 1st and a 2020 3rd type deal.
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Yeah, unfortunately I think the Texans have less leverage now. They should have traded or extended him last year.
 
281Texan said:
We have a Franchise QB, that's enough hope for any fan for the future. No matter how bad we are, we have the toughest part locked in for a while (hopefully). And, I truly believe that next season when we play a difficult schedule, it will be proven that BOB is a total fraud and he'll be replaced. That's hope for me. My hope is that one day things WILL change. But resigning Angelo Blackson, an extremely mediocre player at the very best to a contract worth $4 million a year to kick off free agency, losing HB, getting outbid by the TITANS for Saffold, and refusing to take any kind of risks whatsoever in a pivotal free agency loaded with the 5th most cap space in the league is enough for me to not have blind faith in this regime. I was born and raised just outside of Houston. I will love this team until the day I die but I'm not going to sit here with blinders on while the decision makers of this team are failing.
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I get ya, and agree for the most part, but the constant posting of the negativity here accomplishes nothing. Some of you guys just seem like you'd rather dwell on the negatives than the possible positives. I don't think the Texans are in the best position possible, and don't agree with how things have gone so far, but like you said, the Texans appear to have their QB, all things are possible from here on. Things need to change, but posting about what needs to change here ad nauseum will change none of that. Want to make a difference? Totally boycott the team (and get your friends to join in) in all respects. Don't go to games, watch or buy merchandise. Talking here amongst fellow fans (fanatics) does nothing to show your displeasure on Kirby.Something that @steelbtexan can't admit or follow through with because his wife likes going to games regardless of what he thinks. Are you in the same boat?
 
steelbtexan said:
If I was BOB/Gaine

I try to trade Clowney and hopefully get a 1st and a 3rd then use that $$$$ to sign Brown to protect Watson. But give me Bell and a 1st and a 3rd in a Clowney trade to clear the cap space and I'm very happy.

For the life of me I cant figure out why the Texans org doesn't look at things this way. It's the future of the NFL. You get an all pro RB and cheap rookie help for less than they're going to have to pay Clowney and I like Clowney alot.
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But you're not

You don't like anything or anyone on Kirby alot
 
I'm thinking outside the box here but I seriously wonder if OB has convinced Gaine that his offense is fine as is, maybe a new WR in case of injury. The lack of moves and resigning of Henderson could indicate that OB might have sold Gaine on the idea that the Texans offense will be impossible to stop with a healthy Fuller and the addition of a solid WR from the draft as insurance.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gaine goes into this draft with the defense in mind since RC may have made it known that his pass rush was ineffective due to the DB's inability to shut down the passing game. Get rid of overhead, sign cheap bridges and draft hard.

Maybe Cal, Gaine and OB truly believe they have a very good offense (when healthy) but know defense wins Super Bowls. Draft hard in a draft that is really deep in defensive athletes and save the cap for in season moves to fill holes or injuries.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'm thinking outside the box here but I seriously wonder if OB has convinced Gaine that his offense is fine as is, maybe a new WR in case of injury. The lack of moves and resigning of Henderson could indicate that OB might have sold Gaine on the idea that the Texans offense will be impossible to stop with a healthy Fuller and the addition of a solid WR from the draft as insurance.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gaine goes into this draft with the defense in mind since RC may have made it known that his pass rush was ineffective due to the DB's inability to shut down the passing game. Get rid of overhead, sign cheap bridges and draft hard.

Maybe Cal, Gaine and OB truly believe they have a very good offense (when healthy) but know defense wins Super Bowls. Draft hard in a draft that is really deep in defensive athletes and save the cap for in season moves to fill holes or injuries.
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Gaine and OB told us what they were going to do
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'm thinking outside the box here but I seriously wonder if OB has convinced Gaine that his offense is fine as is, maybe a new WR in case of injury. The lack of moves and resigning of Henderson could indicate that OB might have sold Gaine on the idea that the Texans offense will be impossible to stop with a healthy Fuller and the addition of a solid WR from the draft as insurance.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gaine goes into this draft with the defense in mind since RC may have made it known that his pass rush was ineffective due to the DB's inability to shut down the passing game. Get rid of overhead, sign cheap bridges and draft hard.

Maybe Cal, Gaine and OB truly believe they have a very good offense (when healthy) but know defense wins Super Bowls. Draft hard in a draft that is really deep in defensive athletes and save the cap for in season moves to fill holes or injuries.
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I doubt that. I think Gaine is more of a build your team through the draft, over FA type of guy. I don’t knock him for it, but I wish they would have gone after at least a guard in FA. The truth is, our secondary needs as much work as the O-line. We lost a few games after Watson clutched it out to get us a game winning field goal, just to have our trash defense give up the game with only seconds to go. The defense could never make that crucial stop when it mattered.
 
Will withhold judgment until after the draft. There are still plenty of moves that could be made once the Clowney domino falls. Whether that’s a trade or an extension.

Though I do feel a bit of worrisome deja vu with the Bouye situation in a slightly similar way. Back then the team was waiting to hear if Romo would play or retire instead of franchising or committing long term money to Bouye. By the time Romo announces his retirement Bouye is a Jag.

I hope by the time the team decides to trade or extend Clowney there are still upgrades left.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Will withhold judgment until after the draft. There are still plenty of moves that could be made once the Clowney domino falls. Whether that’s a trade or an extension.

Though I do feel a bit of worrisome deja vu with the Bouye situation in a slightly similar way. Back then the team was waiting to hear if Romo would play or retire instead of franchising or committing long term money to Bouye. By the time Romo announces his retirement Bouye is a Jag.

I hope by the time the team decides to trade or extend Clowney there are still upgrades left.
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I don't know if the Clowney issue is holding things up, I think it is that Gaine refuses to overpay for talent in FA and believes in building through the draft. His moves in the defensive backfield have not been spectacular, but I think they possibly improved this defense. We have a safety who can cover TE's better and a CB with better speed to match up with the kind of WRs who consistently burn this defense. FA is not over and we still have the draft.
 
Texas Jake said:
I don't know if the Clowney issue is holding things up, I think it is that Gaine refuses to overpay for talent in FA and believes in building through the draft. His moves in the defensive backfield have not been spectacular, but I think they possibly improved this defense. We have a safety who can cover TE's better and a CB with better speed to match up with the kind of WRs who consistently burn this defense. FA is not over and we still have the draft.
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If getting Roby out of Denver and off of the weed he could help upgrade the secondary. I'm not holding my breath. I hope they sign Verrett, they are bringing him in today and he's the type of FA Gaine's looking for. (Cheap) If healthy he will be the biggest addition to the defense this offseason.
 
steelbtexan said:
If I was BOB/Gaine

I try to trade Clowney and hopefully get a 1st and a 3rd then use that $$$$ to sign Brown to protect Watson. But give me Bell and a 1st and a 3rd in a Clowney trade to clear the cap space and I'm very happy.

For the life of me I cant figure out why the Texans org doesn't look at things this way. It's the future of the NFL. You get an all pro RB and cheap rookie help for less than they're going to have to pay Clowney and I like Clowney alot.
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First I love these posts about "I would trade player X and get a (insert great value here)" they always seem to forget one little detail. You have to have a trade partner that will agree with your value assessment. Just because you think he is worth that or some rap sheet or talking head thinks they are worth that doesn't mean the other 31 teams think that. I think my house is worth over 200k but if a buyer doesn't agree with me guess what they aren't going to pay that.

As far as Brown goes you really need to let that go. Texans never had a horse in that race but neither did anyone else because the Raiders had fixed the race long before it started. They offered stupid money to a guy that frankly has not shown that he's worth it and they did it before legally you could. Of course you're also the one that said Texans should just break the rules and pay the fine in regards to some other deal. Brown had average stats in a very Oline friendly system guarding the GOAT QB with one of the quickest releases in NFL history and a HoF level HC and Oline coach. If he couldn't succeed with that then he didn't deserve to play in the NFL.

As far as Bell goes I wanted him to but again Texans were not in that race because Bell was picking the winner and he never wanted to come to Houston. He didn't want to go to Jets either, rumor is he wanted Baltimore so he could stick it to the Steelers, but no other team was offering the, again, stupid money the Jets were. Most other teams were reported to be in the 11-13 range but to take that would have been less than Steelers offered him and his ego wouldn't allow that. So now the Jets have paid almost twice what other teams were willing to pay for a RB that hasn't played in almost two years and has shown if he doesn't like something on a team he'll sit out, good luck to them.

Again though this is all dependent on finding a trade partner for Clowney that makes it worth trading him and having his salary come off the books. If they don't, which seems to be the case, then as Kdog said they have to look at the future and figure how to get the money to resign our must keep players like Watt and Watson and that's not counting all the other starters that are becoming F/A. Your plan of just throwing money at the problem would have us in cap hell inside of two years and then we are having to cut players we really want to keep just to stay legal. So you can go on and on about cheap bastards all you want but until you explain where the money for all this is going to come from, and doesn't put us in cap hell, then you are basically just spitting in the wind.
 
It does appear the Texans are sitting on their hands again, but I would bet there is a solid plan behind the scenes. Our run defense was top notch last season, teams averaged 3.4 yards an attempt against them, the lowest average in the league. The Texans had a run defense DVOA of -30.1%, the best rating in the league. Our glaring issue (on defense) was pass defense. Corner options in FA where not all that exciting with the likes of Steven Nelson, Ronald Darby, Pierre Desir, Darqueze Dennars, Jason Verrett (who is scheduled to pay Houston a visit), and Morris Claiborne......none of which scream "Must Have".

I think the Texans planned to keep HB, but not at the price he went for. Once he walked they quickly replaced him for Gipson who can be just as productive (better in pass coverage, not as good in run defense) in ways the Texans need him to be. I'm not sold on Robey, however he can be good veteran presence opposite J.Jo and provide leadership to a rookie drafted CB.

I think we will bet our draft on fixing the O-Line with draft picks, utilizing last years O-Line to limp thru the season until our draft picks either sink or swim on their own. We have shaken up the O-Line two years in a row and I think this year we allow them to stabilize win or lose and allow the drafted rookies to earn their starter reps (may not take long). In addition to O-line, I can see us drafting someone who can provide us an interior rush on defense and stud WR to add to the mix.

We are facing a 1st place schedule, I know it, you know it, the front office knows it. We DO NOT have the pieces to be serious contenders for the big game. 2019 will be a season to get youngsters trained up for a strong 2020 push.



Just my 2 cents.
 
steelbtexan said:
How youspend it or whether you spend the 11% matters.

Again look at how the successful teams have added players and manage their caps, then look at what the Texans do and compare and contrast. Then we can have a number free discussion.

Would you want to say spend 93% of your cap instead 89 to add a LT to protect Watson. Would you want to spend 95% and add a guy say like Suh to be the inside pass rusher this team needs?
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Man you act like those teams been on their skit year in and year out.
 
maverick512000 said:
First I love these posts about "I would trade player X and get a (insert great value here)" they always seem to forget one little detail. You have to have a trade partner that will agree with your value assessment. Just because you think he is worth that or some rap sheet or talking head thinks they are worth that doesn't mean the other 31 teams think that. I think my house is worth over 200k but if a buyer doesn't agree with me guess what they aren't going to pay that.

As far as Brown goes you really need to let that go. Texans never had a horse in that race but neither did anyone else because the Raiders had fixed the race long before it started. They offered stupid money to a guy that frankly has not shown that he's worth it and they did it before legally you could. Of course you're also the one that said Texans should just break the rules and pay the fine in regards to some other deal. Brown had average stats in a very Oline friendly system guarding the GOAT QB with one of the quickest releases in NFL history and a HoF level HC and Oline coach. If he couldn't succeed with that then he didn't deserve to play in the NFL.

As far as Bell goes I wanted him to but again Texans were not in that race because Bell was picking the winner and he never wanted to come to Houston. He didn't want to go to Jets either, rumor is he wanted Baltimore so he could stick it to the Steelers, but no other team was offering the, again, stupid money the Jets were. Most other teams were reported to be in the 11-13 range but to take that would have been less than Steelers offered him and his ego wouldn't allow that. So now the Jets have paid almost twice what other teams were willing to pay for a RB that hasn't played in almost two years and has shown if he doesn't like something on a team he'll sit out, good luck to them.

Again though this is all dependent on finding a trade partner for Clowney that makes it worth trading him and having his salary come off the books. If they don't, which seems to be the case, then as Kdog said they have to look at the future and figure how to get the money to resign our must keep players like Watt and Watson and that's not counting all the other starters that are becoming F/A. Your plan of just throwing money at the problem would have us in cap hell inside of two years and then we are having to cut players we really want to keep just to stay legal. So you can go on and on about cheap bastards all you want but until you explain where the money for all this is going to come from, and doesn't put us in cap hell, then you are basically just spitting in the wind.
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Lots of typing, I didn't even read the entire post. It's not about trade value. I was just thinking about a value between Ford and Mack. What trade value do you think Clowney fills?

It's about using the $$$$ saved with what Clowney's next contract is likely to be worth and using that $$$$ to fill the many hole on the offense/defense, say like finding somebody to atleast averagely protect Watson. Anything you get in a Clowney trade should be considered a bonus.
 
JB said:
If so many outside the Texans think Devlin is a good coach, perhaps it's the players? Personally, I think Devlin sucks at his job, but I'm just a fan on the outside looking in, not a professional
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How long did it take Kubes and crew to get the line right? They weren't playing guys at lt, injury happens, then move the young guy to rt. Izzo coached special teams 1 yr and was fired. Devlin has been here for how long?
 
Regarding my thoughts on trading Clowney:

We have a much better track record on developing fron 7 defenders than anywhere else on the roster.

When we had Kubiak/Alex Gibbs we were able to grab bargain OL because of the system. Our money needs to be allocated where we are weak on developing players. Not on where we are strong. Between Weaver/Pagano/Rac we should be able to develop a solid front 7 player whether its draft or bargain free agent.
 
theCATALYST said:
It does appear the Texans are sitting on their hands again, but I would bet there is a solid plan behind the scenes. Our run defense was top notch last season, teams averaged 3.4 yards an attempt against them, the lowest average in the league. The Texans had a run defense DVOA of -30.1%, the best rating in the league. Our glaring issue (on defense) was pass defense. Corner options in FA where not all that exciting with the likes of Steven Nelson, Ronald Darby, Pierre Desir, Darqueze Dennars, Jason Verrett (who is scheduled to pay Houston a visit), and Morris Claiborne......none of which scream "Must Have".

I think the Texans planned to keep HB, but not at the price he went for. Once he walked they quickly replaced him for Gipson who can be just as productive (better in pass coverage, not as good in run defense) in ways the Texans need him to be. I'm not sold on Robey, however he can be good veteran presence opposite J.Jo and provide leadership to a rookie drafted CB.

I think we will bet our draft on fixing the O-Line with draft picks, utilizing last years O-Line to limp thru the season until our draft picks either sink or swim on their own. We have shaken up the O-Line two years in a row and I think this year we allow them to stabilize win or lose and allow the drafted rookies to earn their starter reps (may not take long). In addition to O-line, I can see us drafting someone who can provide us an interior rush on defense and stud WR to add to the mix.

We are facing a 1st place schedule, I know it, you know it, the front office knows it. We DO NOT have the pieces to be serious contenders for the big game. 2019 will be a season to get youngsters trained up for a strong 2020 push.



Just my 2 cents.
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2020 push?
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, but according to Rapsheet teams have been calling on Clowney and I expect him to bring something between a 1st and a 3rd and the 2020 2nd the 49ers traded for Ford. Maybe a 2019 1st and a 2020 3rd type deal.
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A 2020 second round pick is basically equivialent to in current value to a 2019 3rd round pick pick which tells us that might be about all folks are offering for Clowney so I wouldn't part with him for a single third round pick and most likely nether would Brian Gaine. Full disclosure - of course I'm just speculating here, just as you and everybody is as we don't know what's really going on here unless we have direct knowledge of communications between Gaine, O'Brien, and the McNair family.
I too regret we didn't get Trent Brown but again we have no idea of the full story of why he chose Oakland/Vegas over all of the other teams interested in his services ?
Was it strictly over money ? Maybe, maybe not.
 
steelbtexan said:
Lots of typing, I didn't even read the entire post. It's not about trade value. I was just thinking about a value between Ford and Mack. What trade value do you think Clowney fills?

It's about using the $$$$ saved with what Clowney's next contract is likely to be worth and using that $$$$ to fill the many hole on the offense/defense, say like finding somebody to atleast averagely protect Watson. Anything you get in a Clowney trade should be considered a bonus.
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Oh I'm sorry you would have had to read more than 5 sentences so let me fix that for you.

Brown and Bell weren't worth what they got paid.

You have to have a trade partner before you can make a trade.

We have lots of money we will HAVE to spend on starters in the next two years.

No one knows what the cap space or player contracts will look like over the next two years.

Your plan of just throw money at a problem with no regard for the future sucks and will put us in cap hell.
 
leebigeztx said:
How long did it take Kubes and crew to get the line right? They weren't playing guys at lt, injury happens, then move the young guy to rt. Izzo coached special teams 1 yr and was fired. Devlin has been here for how long?
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What does this have to do with my comment?
 
TheRealJoker said:
Will withhold judgment until after the draft. There are still plenty of moves that could be made once the Clowney domino falls. Whether that’s a trade or an extension.

Though I do feel a bit of worrisome deja vu with the Bouye situation in a slightly similar way. Back then the team was waiting to hear if Romo would play or retire instead of franchising or committing long term money to Bouye. By the time Romo announces his retirement Bouye is a Jag.

I hope by the time the team decides to trade or extend Clowney there are still upgrades left.
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not sure what "Clowney domino" there is left to fall. Gaine/O'Brien/RAC committed to the F-tag this season. You looking out to 2020?
 
ObsiWan said:
not sure what "Clowney domino" there is left to fall. Gaine/O'Brien/RAC committed to the F-tag this season. You looking out to 2020?
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Clowney hasn’t signed the tag and recent history with players sitting suggests Clowney will likely holdout into the season if he does play under the tag at all in 2019. Too much money being thrown around now to risk injury at his position.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Clowney hasn’t signed the tag and recent history with players sitting suggests Clowney will likely holdout into the season if he does play under the tag at all in 2019. Too much money being thrown around now to risk injury at his position.
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Still gonna get at least 14 million and possibly 17 mill depending on how he is officially designated.
A lot of money to toss away.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Clowney hasn’t signed the tag and recent history with players sitting suggests Clowney will likely holdout into the season if he does play under the tag at all in 2019. Too much money being thrown around now to risk injury at his position.
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You realize it's March 14? And he has until July 15 to make a decision? As does the club?
 
Texansphan said:
Still gonna get at least 14 million and possibly 17 mill depending on how he is officially designated.
A lot of money to toss away.
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Trey Flowers just got 56 million in guarantees. If Clowney sits someone will still pay him that much or more.

If he gets injured playing under the tag however... who knows what he’ll command.
 
JB said:
You realize it's March 14? And he has until July 15 to make a decision? As does the club?
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And the pool of players to choose from between now and then in free agency/draft will continue to dry up until then.

Clowney’s agent has already advised him on what to do. The blueprint is out there. Texans are either going to trade him if the price is right or pay him.
 
TheRealJoker said:
And the pool of players to choose from between now and then in free agency/draft will continue to dry up until then.

Clowney’s agent has already advised him on what to do. The blueprint is out there. Texans are either going to trade him if the price is right or pay him.
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Doen's have anything to do with whether he's signed the tag or not due to him sitting because of money being thrown around.

He makes his decision on what he (and his agent) thinks is best for him
 
JB said:
Doen's have anything to do with whether he's signed the tag or not due to him sitting because of money being thrown around.

He makes his decision on what he (and his agent) thinks is best for him
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And the team can sit with their heads in the sand until July 15 that he’ll play under a 1 year deal or they can take proactive measures to improve the team.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Clowney hasn’t signed the tag and recent history with players sitting suggests Clowney will likely holdout into the season if he does play under the tag at all in 2019. Too much money being thrown around now to risk injury at his position.
Click to expand...

TheRealJoker said:
Trey Flowers just got 56 million in guarantees. If Clowney sits someone will still pay him that much or more.

If he gets injured playing under the tag however... who knows what he’ll command.
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I get your point and I do agree with you to a certain extent but there is another side to it as well. The "player sitting out" thing was mostly done by Bell and it actually didn't work out for him as well as he thought. Most teams are reported to offering him below what even the Steelers did with the Jets being the only fish the bit and that didn't seem to be a team he wanted on. If Bell is a bust in New York, and after almost two years of not playing he might be, then its going to pop this bubble of players sitting out.

All that being said I do think something needs to be done with Clowney. I think the Texans are shopping for trade partners but not getting the offers that they like. Given that situation the best opinion was to tag him and hopefully they are creating a back up plan in case he does sit out. Even if he does play I personally think he might be mostly phoning it in just to keep from getting injured which also doesn't help us.

But maybe I'm biased, I've never really been a fan of his and have felt he has been good but not 1st all round good. I'd rather trade him and get more picks but of course that requires someone willing to pony up the picks.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Trey Flowers just got 56 million in guarantees. If Clowney sits someone will still pay him that much or more.

If he gets injured playing under the tag however... who knows what he’ll command.
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I don't think any team will pay him more than Flowers - not with his injury history. Probably less and likely why there haven't been strong enough offers to entice Texans to trade him.
 
Mangler said:
I doubt that. I think Gaine is more of a build your team through the draft, over FA type of guy. I don’t knock him for it, but I wish they would have gone after at least a guard in FA. The truth is, our secondary needs as much work as the O-line. We lost a few games after Watson clutched it out to get us a game winning field goal, just to have our trash defense give up the game with only seconds to go. The defense could never make that crucial stop when it mattered.
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We're on the same page Mangler. I'm a firm believer of building through the draft and adding solid veterans via free agency to fill needed holes. They can also be picked up to bridge a position or add veteran depth.

The Texans have 2 positions of glaring need.....OL and CB. I'm looking forward to the draft to see how they address these issues or if they think they're in a good place already. I thought the organization was doing a misdirection when describing their off-season plans.....their current FA moves could indicate they were speaking the truth which in turn gives me some reservations as to the approach they will take in the draft.
 
They tried to address the tackle issue last year by drafting a guard and signing a guy who hasn't played since 2015.

Not a good start.
 
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