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Andre Johnson released - cut by Colts - signs with Titans
- Thread starter TheMatrix31
- Start date
Texian
Hall of Fame
Come March 10th at 4:00PM ET if AJ hasn't been traded or released his salary will count against the salary cap. Therefore I think you will see a resolution to AJ's status before then.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why until they spend the first $18.5 mil they have in available cap?
To my recollection, none of those guys just cut bait with their aging stars. They were able to move them & receive decent compensation for them. We may not need him, but there is someone out there who needs an Andre Johnson who doesn't stand a chance in FA.
I don't understand why "we're" giddy about dumping our assets for nothing.
From what I've read, Andre told OB that he would not be happy with the role OB described for him. OB/Smith then offered Aj & co to seek a trade.
In Aj's narrative, he did not demand a trade.
Aj's camp replied that they will not seek a trade, but would prefer the Texans just cut him.
According to Aj's account, he's working within the framework of what the Texans are allowing.
I guess Andre wants out of the the contract if it isn't in his best interest, similar to the Texans wanting out of the contract if paying it isn't in their best interest.
michaelm
vox nihili
According to AJ's camp, the Texans just defined his role for 2015 and he was unhappy about it. If you believe him, they do not want out of the contract, he does.
Fans don't want to except this but AJ wanted out last yr.
I only asked you that question because it seems like you have no joy in being a fan of this team. You do not seem to have any pleasure in the 2011 and 2012 seasons, which are obviously the best years of this franchise so far.
And it is a question that I do ask myself from time to time.
After all, "fans" in this day and age are really just customers.
We cannot change the past. We can analyze it and learn from it, but I cannot throw away the best years of this organization to support my vitriol of a particular coach. (did you see what I did there? just for you, man
)However, going forward, I do think it is fair to wonder if the past is indicative of where this team is going in the future. And misguided loyalty is one of those aspects that we can clearly wonder about as customers....errrrr....fans. We see the oft-stated and celebrated loyalty to a particular player is now gone. Let's see if that same mentality is extended to other facets of this franchise. Because if not, it's going to be the same old same old of a chain only being as strong as its weakest link.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Could replacing Andre Johnson be as easy as offering the Chicago Bears a fourth-round pick for Brandon Marshall? He can do a lot of the same things Andre Johnson did and he's only 31 years old which is a couple years younger than Andre. Word is Chicago is pushing hard to trade B-Marsh during the next few days. Actually they have a week to trade him.
"If Marshall is still on the Bears roster on March 12, his $7.5 million in base salary is guaranteed. The Bears got Marshall for a pair of third-round picks in 2012, and would certainly be looking for less than that now, to get out from under the contract."
We could draft a guy like Tyler Lockett in the second or third round (if he falls). Perfect slot guy to compliment Brandon Marshall and DeAndre Hopkins. We'd have some serious weapons for whoever our quarterback is going to be.
"If Marshall is still on the Bears roster on March 12, his $7.5 million in base salary is guaranteed. The Bears got Marshall for a pair of third-round picks in 2012, and would certainly be looking for less than that now, to get out from under the contract."
We could draft a guy like Tyler Lockett in the second or third round (if he falls). Perfect slot guy to compliment Brandon Marshall and DeAndre Hopkins. We'd have some serious weapons for whoever our quarterback is going to be.
So you think the Texans are good for paying $14M (or whatever) for a projected 40 catches? They should just keep him then. Why talk about it at all?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Actually there has been no statement from either side the Texans would be happy paying AJ his current salary in the reduced role. The statement was salary was never discussed.
That has been accompanied by 100% understandable speculation that the next step was for the Texans to ask for a pay cut.
Exactly, there's no point in the role conversation unless it is a prelude to a pay cut conversation.
Maybe because that isn't clear at all. There were reports what AJ wanted initially was to be guaranteed to be here through 2015.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
If the Texans end up trading for Brandon Marshall sometime in the next seven days I'll feel more than okay saying goodbye to Andre Johnson. My main concern with him demanding a trade or release is the fact that we don't have anybody to replace him. Now with this B-Marsh news breaking about the Bears trying to trade him before March 12 that gives me some hope. A chance to acquire a 30-year-old, five-time pro bowler, one time all pro, legitimate number one wideout for a mere fourth-round pick. It's a no brainer. Brandon Marshall turns 31 years old in a few weeks. We could easily ride him for the two or three more productive years he has left. About the same we were expecting out of Andre Johnson at this point in his career (33).
I only asked you that question because it seems like you have no joy in being a fan of this team. You do not seem to have any pleasure in the 2011 and 2012 seasons, which are obviously the best years of this franchise so far.
And it is a question that I do ask myself from time to time.
After all, "fans" in this day and age are really just customers.
We cannot change the past. We can analyze it and learn from it, but I cannot throw away the best years of this organization to support my vitriol of a particular coach. (did you see what I did there? just for you, man
However, going forward, I do think it is fair to wonder if the past is indicative of where this team is going in the future. And misguided loyalty is one of those aspects that we can clearly wonder about as customers....errrrr....fans. We see the oft-stated and celebrated loyalty to a particular player is now gone. Let's see if that same mentality is extended to other facets of this franchise. Because if not, it's going to be the same old same old of a chain only being as strong as its weakest link.
The reason although I took pleasure in the 2011-2012 seasons I thought they didn't mean much was that I didn't think Smith/Kubak were the team to lead the team to the SB.
I have no vitriol towards Kubiak. I actually think with the team he had and Schaub quickly falling off a cliff he did a great coaching job and said so at the time. He deserved coy consideration.
I cannot say the same for Smith. I believe he didn't do his job well and underminded Kubiak with Smith's suggestions to re-sign Schaub. It also bothers me to this day that from the day he walked in the doors at Kirby he started kissing Cal McNair's butt (Godfather) and when failure happened he threw the man who helped him get his job under the bus. (Kubiak) He will do the same with BOB/Gaine etc... if things go wrong. You can count on this.
If BOB/Gaine get the team to the top you can bet the reason in the media will be the great leadership of the McNair's/Smith will be the storyline. Hopefully this happens and there isn't a repeat of the Smith/Kubiak yrs. One thing is for sure Smith has positioned himself perfectly within the Texans org. Basically no fault can fall on him. I hope this is the correct thread to have this discussion.
michaelm
vox nihili
While agree that it was ultimately about a pay cut, it is possible that McNair had advised that he was willing to pay the salary, even if O'Brien saw a decreased role for AJ in his scheme.
At any rate, AJ made his request before there were any salary discussions, so it is still a situation where he is saying he can't accept the HC's role for him at his current salary.
The Super Bowl winning, stocked to the gills with talent Patriots? Yes.
"People try to picture it the way they want to picture it, saying that I asked for a trade (but),there's a reason I asked for a trade," Johnson said. "I think if anybody else was in my situation, they would have done the same thing I did.
"I don't know how you tell a guy who catches 85 balls that he'll only probably catch 40. I feel like the role they were trying to put me in, I'd be held back from maximizing my talents. I feel like that was the best thing for both sides.
"Why sit there and be miserable when I can go somewhere else and be able to show my talents?"
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Even that is disputed with AJ's camp saying the Texans broached the subject of trade. Don't know, don't care on that point.
I don't think anyone around believes the Texans are prepared to pay for AJ in a reduced role. The meeting doesn't even make any sense at that point.
Other than a pay cut, there's only one purpose for a meeting with AJ prior to signing a FA or drafting a WR - driving him out the door.
Try harmonizing the two stories:
OB: you seem pissed, you're laughing at me, do you want to go look for a team with a bigger role?
AJ: hell yeah I want to be traded if that's my role.
Nobody's lying.
I would rather live in a Matrix like world in which Andre Johnson stays with Houston and wins the Super Bowl in Houston.
What color pill would that be?
michaelm
vox nihili
I agree that the goal was probably a reduced salary, but there are reasons to discuss a major role change with a key player beyond salary.
My over riding point is that I think there is more to the way it happened. A lot of people want to just believe AJ because he's AJ, but you said it yourself, even his own camp isn't on the same page about the way things went down.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Right before going into free agency and the draft those reasons would be?
Actually I just laid out a scenario where everything is consistent.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Not that I think this was the reason in this case, but giving the best player in franchise history a heads up that there may be a FA signing or high draft pick at his position would seem like a reasonable courtesy to extend.
Think of the discussion ending with the statement to Andre "We just didn't want you to be blindsided by what might be going down sometime in the next few weeks".
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Absolutely a courtesy call or meeting to say we may pick up hell even both a FA and draft pick WR would be perfectly reasonable. Nothing points to that.
The Matrix tried to create that world, but that program was rejected as unbelievable.
Brandon Marshall
2013: 100 Receptions, 1295 yards
2014: 61 Receptions, 721 yards
If he was already a Texan, he'd be washed up and fans would be calling for his head.
This is EXACTLY what we were led to believe last year when it was reported that McNair met with A.J. to sort things out.
It was said that A.J. was concerned about his future with the Texans and McNair publicly said that A.J. was valued and would retire a Houston Texan. I guess what he did not say was it would be a one-day-contract-deal so A.J. could 'officially' retire a Texan, which is something that I have always found goofy.
I never thought Kubiak / Schaub would get us to the Super Bowl.
However, I do appreciate what they accomplished for more pragmatic reasons. I did not want to experience a Saints-like 20 year drought of no winning records / no postseason as a fan. I really wanted all those "firsts" out of the way so we were no longer gripping about when they would finally achieve a playoff season.
Beyond that, though, I never felt that they had the 'clutch gene' that is required by most championship teams. I appreciate what they did for the franchise, but glad they are gone now. Just need to see the final crumb of Kubiak deeply analyzed by the owner, but yada yada yada we know that's not going to happen due to qausi-nepotism.
Something that really bothers me about the modern NFL is the idea of contracts and how teams can be dumbasses and set them up to eventually be broken.
Who was the idiotic front office that structured a contract to have $16 million due a 34 year old WR???
But none of that matters, because NFL contracts are a misnomer. Contracts in this league are not "a formal and legally binding agreement" with the exception of guaranteed money. Otherwise, teams have the power to tell a player to go jump off a cliff while players have no power to change their status (except to hold out and not get paid, even fined for it).
Just a cynical observation of the business game that is played. The better winning organization avoid stupid contracts, while the rest wallow in mediocrity for season after season.
That would be the deep steel blue pill that you need to swallow.
The battle red pills is demon's blood and makes you cynical to reality.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Now they're stocked to the gills? Mid-season they were done and talks to trading Brady were rampant. All about perspective.
So what do you mean? Are they low in talent or not?
My point is that comparing the Texans to the Patriots on anything but the most superficial level is mental masturbation more than anything else.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Not being stocked to the gills doesn't mean they're low in talent. The talent they have is effective in their system.
Even still, how you gonna tell Andre he's going to be buried on the depth chart & not,"You'll have to compete for your spot."
badboy
Hall of Fame
I was told AJ could not be permanent slot by some here but I think he would be very good especially with an outside burner like Parker or Strong. I really like AJ but if I could trade him for anything 4th round or above, he's traded. I don't care whom he is traded to either as we don't owe him anything.
First, that silly talk was early in the season, not "mid-season".
Second, that talk about trading Brady was from panicky fans and speculating talking heads; not from the Pats themselves.
False Start
On # 69
If Dre end up in Denver it would be interesting to see what it would look like with 5 head throwing to him. Just think, we could have seen that years ago if Kubiak didn't have a boner for Schaub. :kubepalm:
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Perhaps third receiver would be a better description than slot. But I think they could find a way to use all three in a productive way, even if it isn't traditional roles. AJ still gets free through great route running and that is what I see utilized as a third receiver after the new guy spreads the field.
I admit to not knowing the duties of traditional prototypes, but I also know good coaching adjusts to their players strengths.
I still don't think Manning would have came here. Sure he said he'd like to be here & I can believe he meant it. But it's not like he said, "I only want to play for Houston."
It would have ended up John Elway vs Teflon Don & I think Elway would have won. We'd have been stuck with a pissed off Schaub trying to prove something & we saw how that went.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
It also wouldn't have been the same Texans team with Manning instead of Schaub. That was the offseason that they had to scramble to release Winston because the cap was lower than expected. I don't remember the contract details for the whole team obviously from back then, but imagine who else would have had to be let go to make room for Manning's $20MM cap hit.
Hindsight decisions are always easy, but they would have had to blow up the team they put together to sign an aging future HOF QB who was at the time potentially one sack from career end.
Texian
Hall of Fame
MYTH! Fantasy! Dreaming! The truth is in 2012 the Texans did not have enough money to meet the payroll for their 53 player roster much less $20M for Peyton Manning. The Texans HAD TO to restructure several contracts just to get under the salary cap to start the 2012 season, FACT! NEVER WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It was $18 and there is nothing saying the contract couldn't have been structured to count as little as $4.4 mil on the 2012 cap.
But keep making up your facts as you go along.
And before you go off on me as some kind of dreamer that wanted him here, I like you thought it would NEVER happen for a WRONG reason. I didn't believe Manning would coexist with Kubiak. Clearly that is not the case.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I think that is yet to be seen. But I think they'll figure something out. When given the choice between running his system or getting damaged Manning with his own system at a high cost, Kubiak chose his own system. Now the choice wasn't his; all he could choose was accept or decline the job.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
My view here. Mostly written for fans thinking of getting them for their team. Has some Texan fan stuff, things that maybe some people don't know.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2015/03/what-does-andre-johnson-have-left-in-the-tank/
Warning. Lots of words for people who like lots of words things. Probably better to think of it as a written podcast sort of thing. It's a niche.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2015/03/what-does-andre-johnson-have-left-in-the-tank/
Warning. Lots of words for people who like lots of words things. Probably better to think of it as a written podcast sort of thing. It's a niche.
I think this is a very interesting storyline to watch this season. Both men are very strong in their perspectives on offensive schemes. Will they hybrid their systems? Kubiak has to walk the line between making Manning happy this season while also looking at a more long-term goal as a head coach since he will most likely be there for at least a few years.
Funny thing is that it drives me crazy to think of A.J. in a Colts uni, but does not bother me if he lands in Denver. Kinda' weird...but it would be cool to see even an older A.J. finally catching passes from an elite QB.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
The perception at the time was that the team names being floated were to create a market for Manning's services. Denver at the time had a ton more money than the Texans. Certainly, contract stuff could have been shuffled around, but usually that just postpones the issues.
Kubiak has worked with a lot of different quarterback types. Will be interested in seeing how that works in Denver. Presnap he hasn't a ton of control to his QB (few plays v whole playbook), but he hasn't had Manning before. Pairing him up with a consistent running game could be very effective, and certainly something helpful to him at this point in his career.
I wonder why they would straight up cut Chris Myers but play games with Andre.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Maybe they were hoping Andre would accept a reduced role and stay but didn't give a rat's azz about Myers.