So ultimately they want him to restructure/take a paycut and remain a Texans?
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Andre Johnson released - cut by Colts - signs with Titans
- Thread starter TheMatrix31
- Start date
So ultimately they want him to restructure/take a paycut and remain a Texans?
PapaL
Loose Screw
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I think that's a possibility.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I can't imagine they would want him to restructure with only 1 year remaining on his contract (ie: moving $6M to 2016 to reduce 2015 cap hit from $16M to $10M)....and I can't see Dre agreeing to a paycut.
Misplaced faith?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The 2011 Texans had a damn good shot if Schaub doesn't go down. At least as good as some recent winners like the Giants and Ravens. Them not winning without him says jack about what they could have done.
Health is part of the game and Schaub couldn't stay healthy. No assurances that the Texans would've won the SB with Schaub. It isn't like Schaub was always clutch in big games and I was one of Schaub's biggest supporters before his lisfranc.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
There are no assurances for any team any year that they win the SB. No need to make that a requirement for Texans.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I didn't say they would have won. I said they had a damn good shot. You like absolutes like the Texans never had a shot to win with Schaub and Kubiak. I think that's ridiculous and they did but that window closed with the injury.
Right... I didn't put much faith in Schaub, he was just part of the equation. I was counting on a stout defense & Arian Foster. Mostly Arian Foster. He was tough for a little while there.
2011, we were Seattle before Seattle. If Kubiak didn't let Tj off the chain, Arian & Jj would have, imo, won us at least the AFC Championship.
Can you expound on that? What do you mean by letting Tj off the chain? What other options did Kubiak have?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And if Tj wasn't throwing 35 times (which fit our offense) and 3 TD's, how many ypc would Foster have had? 3.1 maybe?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
yeah and my memory sux, but still our offense under Kubiak was for the pass to open up the run to open up the play action.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If healthy Schaub had played that game I don't think there's any question
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I'm pulling for Seattle. I could seriously support the Seahawk if Andre became a starter on their team. Seattle is a cool city in some ways but an objection about the place is they don't really like football there that much. Don't get me wrong they love their Seahawks, but football is not in their blood/DNA like it is with people in Texas, the South, the Midwest.
And he's got a real shot at a ring in Seattle in the next year or two.
And he's got a real shot at a ring in Seattle in the next year or two.
Excellent work.
but there's a nagging (evil) little voice that keeps wondering if this isn't O'Brien getting even for A.J.'s quasi-holdout last summer. I mean, what kind of "offensive guru" can't find a way to get the ball to Andre Johnson more than twice a game?? It boggles my mind.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
I believe that ship has sailed.
Until the Texans make some kind of statement, or take some kind of action, ya never know
Kubiak gave up on the run way too early. Even after the Jacoby muffed punt, I thought it would have been better to slow the game down, manage possessions & put the ball in Arian's hands.
I think he lead the league in rushing TDs that year.
We were good, really good at the short run game that year. 3rd & 1, 4th & 1, we'd pick those up. We would have killed them on T.O.P. scored on most of our possessions & forced Baltimore to be as efficient, which they've never been.
& with Kubiak, it wasn't until Dennison came that he would not give up on the run too early. That game, it is my opinion that he gave up on the run too early.
Ok, thanks for the explanation
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What do you find funny?
I missed your post the first time around. I tend to agree, but right now we can only talk about what we've heard and then speculate on the rest. That's what makes this forum fun to chat in.
O'Brien might have told him that 40 was on the low end of possibilities, which would indicate to A.J. that he's going to play a lesser role in the offense. And then with the way the Patriots use packages, he was probably told that there could be some games where he's not the starting WR1 in some packages based on the defense they are facing that week.
That's an interesting thing to ponder. My best guess is that A.J.'s ego probably prevented him from accepting such a scenario, and he's been the Big Dog in Houston for over a decade, so that kind of reduced role was just alien to his mindset.
I personally would have liked to have seen A.J. call the Texans bluff. Accept a lesser role mentality in February, but refuse to renegotiate a contract. Of course, that kind of game could create some animosity that gets you traded to Cleveland or some other god-awful backwater team, so maybe the strategic decision was to just respectfully ask for a trade. We'll probably never really know...
We do know that A.J. won't end up in NE. Belichick would most likely have the same attitude about WRs as O'Brien, meaning the players do not set the terms.
McNair was recently reported to be worth $2.4 billion, so he doesn't need the money. I think he does want to win, but he's not football savvy and must rely on those he hires to take care of his business. And that can often mean a gullibility that gets fooled from time to time. I think the Ed Reed decision speaks to this gullibility, among other decisions (like publicly promising fans that A.J. would never play for another team. Owners should avoid those kind of absolute statements about star players that are loved by a fan base.)
I think there has to be more to this story, because O'Brien certainly knows how to feed the ball to a player. He obviously did not want A.J. here anymore.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wouldn't be so sure about that. Belichick has a track record of believing he can control other teams' problem children at least for a year or two - Moss, Haynesworth, Dillon...
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
We lost by less than a TD, with TJ Yates as starting QB in their house. No question we win if Schaub plays, he was lightining it up that season.
If Andre is a problem child, I don't understand the term. He's been a solid citizen his whole career. I don't think a couple of blips of not wanting to be here anymore changes that. Those blips are more than balanced out by the crap teams he has played on without complaining.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not just TJ Yates, the worst version of TJ Yates. Miserable day. 80.7 rating in his regular season starts, 97.7 against the Bengals - - - 28.8 against the Ravens.
Meanwhile Schaub was 96.8 on the season and led the league on yards per catch at 13.9.
I meant that as if he'll take on those kinds of problem children, certainly he would take on AJ - not that AJ is a problem child.
kingtexan
All Pro
The continued Schaub love by you and others.
He was a below average quarterback from day one, who had inflated numbers because our receivers made circus catches to cover up his inability to hit a moving target, and turned one yard dump offs into big gains.
Yet folks keep burying their face in his crotch and taking deep breathes.
To each his own ...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the response.
LOL at Schaub's numbers being pumped by YAC. But you don't appear to be someone who lets facts stand in your way so ... have a good one.
1. No reason it couldn't have, or at least a close semblance of it.
2. Think about it objectively. You bring your #1WR with a huge cap hit into the office to discuss his "diminshed role" in your projected scheme. To what end? Why then exactly? A couple of weeks before that salary is fully guaranteed is suposed to be a coincidence? Why not have this discussion during OTAs? Simple, either you're trying to piss the man off enough that he WANTS to leave (and you get the media spin that you AREN'T pushing him out the door), or you're giving him a 'heads up' that he might want to go elsewhere while he still can. It's a not-very-subtle way of saying, "We can't possibly take a $16M cap hit for the production we're going to reduce you to".
3. See point in #2 - Make Andre mad enough to leave so that you aren't forced to push him out the door. That's EASY to spin for the fans. "Well, we WANTED him to remain a Texan, but he wanted to get traded / cut instead".
Not at that time there isn't. You simply aren't discussing "scheme" with your players in that timeframe.
The bolded indicates you don't understand that offense. Elway won Superbowls with the same format. So did many "West Coast Offense" teams. (Hint: Elway's Yards per attempt is lower than Schaub's - 7.6 vs 7.1) You sell Schaub a tad short.
Best seasons?
QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G
9-7-0 396 583 67.9 4770 29 5.0 15 2.6 72 8.2 8.0 12.0 298.1
9-7-0 348 551 63.2 4030 25 4.5 10 1.8 63 7.3 7.4 11.6 251.9
I don't know that it is probable, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised.
I do not see A.J. as a troubled child like Moss, Haynesworth, Dillon. He's been a model player for the most part, so it's not the attitude that would present an obstacle.
My thought was NE's current trend of using packages based on the defense that they are facing that week, which is the same mentality that O'Brien seems to be implementing now. I'm just not seeing NE pay the price that A.J. can command on the open market for what he would provide to them.
The problem with all of this analysis is that we have a very incomplete picture of what transpired and what O'Brien plans to do to cause A.J. not starting and only catching 40 passes. Maybe it was an agenda as other have mentioned, but that's pure speculation without supporting evidence at this point.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Yep. AJ isn't the same player as Moss, but Tom Brady knew what to do with a good, big receiver when he had one. Accuracy is essential for the scheme, and that wasn't a hallmark of the Texans QB last year.
kingtexan
All Pro
Three sets of Siamese twins with Down Syndrome trying to play Twister just called and said comparing Schaub to Elway is retarded ...
I have the gift of site, so I make my determinations by watching the game on the field.
Elway threw a rocket on a rope directly to his intended targets.
Schaub consistently threw over or behind his receivers, and if not for them being able to adjust or make truly great athletic catches, the balls would have been incomplete. He owes any and every semblance of a career he had to Johnson, Daniels, and even Walters. Not to mention the running backs catching his knuckle-balls coming out of the back-field.
People can keep their stats.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Look at the difference in numbers between 2011 Schaub and 2011 Yates. Schaub's key numbers were so much better. So much. Kubiak said the playbook was the same but Yates just didn't have control of that offense, and when he missed on throws, he missed high which is bad. And also why there was training wheels on the offense with Yates.
Arian Foster carried that offense in 2011. Underreported story? Arian was hurt by the end of that Ravens playoff game. He was limping around something fierce by the end of that game. Had they won it, I'm not sure if he could have played the following week.
But then again had Schaub not got hurt, that playoff game may have been against a different opponent and/or at home. That defense was good, particularly by the end of the season. Arian was good. Yates was a gamer, and did his best, but he was an albatross that Schaub was not at that point in his career pre-injury.
I would have liked to have seen what would have happened had New England not cut Haynesworth, and then TB not pick him up because they had DT injury, and then Fat Al destroying Schaub on a basic sneak that he had done a million times in his life without injury.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's gigantic. Hell if TJ played to regular season form I think we win in Baltimore. But on that day he was epically bad v. Schaub having a great season (6th rating in the league, 1st on yards per completion).
Link
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badboy
Hall of Fame
if only there was enough desire for AJ that one of them offers us something before he is cut.
It's gigantic. Hell if TJ played to regular season form I think we win in Baltimore. But on that day he was epically bad v. Schaub having a great season (6th rating in the league, 1st on yards per completion).
Link
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
If not for Fat Albert, they would have gone then. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Because the Houston Sports fan in you knows that Andre will sign with Indy and it will come down to us having to beat Indy to get in the playoffs and Andre will have the most prolific game of his career with a game ending TD to boot!