There have been quite a few; I had listed many of them before.
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All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread
- Thread starter mussop
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yates has shown that he wouldn't be anything other then a Jason Campbell type of QB at best. A decent starter in some games, and a back up type of guy in the rest. He is and never was a guy that was touted to be an NFL starter. Maybe you feel differently, but I don't see any potential that would lead me to think that he could be a big time passer in this league.
And yes Keenum on the other hand has shown me that he potentially could. He can move in and out of the pocket and has a very quick release. He puts the ball in small windows on a lot of throws that I know a guy like Schaub would never even attempt. He reminds me of a shorter version of Romo actually. What I don't know is if he can play well in the clutch or even in big regular season games? I'm dying to find out. I want to see if he can become an igniter for this offense right now. But with this same ole stubborn safe HC coach, we'll probably never find out. We'll just suffer through Schaub until the off season where he'll get another 4 years to see what he can do with another QB.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Here's what to expect going forward:
1) Schaub will be the starter against St Louis. This will be interesting, because Fisher knows the tendencies of this offense.
2) If Schaub does not improve over the next two games, Rick Smith will have Schaub benched indefinitely. Kubiak can be as loyal to Schaub as he wants, but Smith has a business to run. We saw this course of action when Kubiak was left out of the conversation regarding the hiring of Wade Phillips. It also fits the 20/70/10 philosophy that Smith adopted, which dictates that when your highest paid players in the top 20% underperform and drop into the middle 70%, they become a burden on the team and you have to take action.
1) Schaub will be the starter against St Louis. This will be interesting, because Fisher knows the tendencies of this offense.
2) If Schaub does not improve over the next two games, Rick Smith will have Schaub benched indefinitely. Kubiak can be as loyal to Schaub as he wants, but Smith has a business to run. We saw this course of action when Kubiak was left out of the conversation regarding the hiring of Wade Phillips. It also fits the 20/70/10 philosophy that Smith adopted, which dictates that when your highest paid players in the top 20% underperform and drop into the middle 70%, they become a burden on the team and you have to take action.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Not guys who worked their way up from 3rd string to become starters over multiple seasons b/c thats not the same thing we're talking about here.......guys that were on the roster as 3rd stringers at 1 point in the season & then leap frogged the 2nd string guy during the season for the starting spot in the same season.........guys who weren't high draft picks and weren't expected to ascend to the starting job and came outta nowhere.....thats what. We're talkng about if we 're seriously entertaining starting keenum.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Does Schaub ever pump fake? I mean he winds up and his delivery and ball speed are slow so wouldn't a pump fake every now and then help out?
I'll have to go back to look for it.
It's easier for you to assume these things because they sure are rare.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
His pump fake would be as slow and he'd have to reset. He'd probably be falling away when pumping as well making it even harder to quickly throw.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Exactly my point....its extremely unlikely that keenum is going to be any better than Yates.....And people wanting to see him just b/c he's the unknown commodity isnt a good enough reason to start him over Yates imo....not while we still have something to play for anyway..
I dont have a problem with him getting his shot, i just dont think that he shouldn't have it before We get a real good look at TJ to see if he can at least be a stop gap guy.....short of yates or keenum absolutely lighting it up, we should go qb in the 1st round regardless and hit camp next year with the qb job open.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Kubiak has announced that Schaub will start next week.
Fisher's Rams got excited. At least the DBs did.
Granted, this could still change.
Fisher's Rams got excited. At least the DBs did.
Granted, this could still change.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Hello Janoris Jenkins, IDP
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
If you're making a QB change, which means you've pretty much given up on the season, then I would rather see Case, whether he's better than Yates or not. Yates isn't taking you anywhere. Yates isn't better than Schaub and we know where the Schaub train is going. Should have traded TJ when you had the chance.
Now, Case may not take you anywhere either, but like I said, if the change is made, the season is lost anyway. Might as well see if the guy can play or not.
I don't understand this. What possible benefit can we gain by proclaiming he is the starter next week?
I'm glad to see that he was finally benched, but if it had any effect on him at all, you just ruined it by naming him the starter for next week already.
I've got to hear the rest of the speech, but I'd have liked it if he just said, "We're going to evaluate the situation."
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I disagree, we're only giving up on the season if we start the guy who doesnt have any starting experience under his belt not the guy who already has 1 playoff win under his belt.....we can at least strive for that with him b/c he's done it before.
With Keenum, we'd basically be holding a season long try out for the qb position for next year...
Come On Breh
Waterboy
why not? why cant keenum battle it out vs yates in practice and them split reps vs the first string defense?
yates has regular and playoff reps under his belt, he has multiple years of experience with this offense yet he couldnt separate his play from keenum who just got here in preseason.
that should tell you right there who has the upside and potential and it at least warrants yates beat out keenum in practice reps vs 1st team defense.
What's the problem with proving it and earning it?
Freaking hate this mentality of hey schaubs been starter lets keep going with him just cuz huurr durrrr.
its just retarded.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
all it takes is one tweet, a cell phone video, an instagram picture.
As much as we get frustrated by Kubiak's conservative offense sometimes, sadly all we needed was for Schaub to be Alex Smith this year. We have a top defense + running game and the best punter in the league (history?) to play the field position game. All he had to do was not make stupid decisions and screw up basic reads.
I can't believe I'm saying a pro QB should be like Alex Smith, the definition of mediocre and game manager, but Schaub can't even do that~! I have no doubt that we'd be at least 4-1 and a playoff team if he could just manage not to spot the other team 7 every game. We're lucky to have even beaten the Bengals and Schaub's ginger cousin Andy Dalton last year because of his horrible pick 6.
Do I believe we would be a legit SB contender playing that style or that the Chiefs have a shot this year? Most likely no, but it has to be less frustrating than what's going on so far. Only positive I can see is if hopefully it forces a change and saves us from another year under Schaub...
I can't believe I'm saying a pro QB should be like Alex Smith, the definition of mediocre and game manager, but Schaub can't even do that~! I have no doubt that we'd be at least 4-1 and a playoff team if he could just manage not to spot the other team 7 every game. We're lucky to have even beaten the Bengals and Schaub's ginger cousin Andy Dalton last year because of his horrible pick 6.
Do I believe we would be a legit SB contender playing that style or that the Chiefs have a shot this year? Most likely no, but it has to be less frustrating than what's going on so far. Only positive I can see is if hopefully it forces a change and saves us from another year under Schaub...
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
First of all, Keenum is in his 2nd year in this system as well....just b/c he was on the practice squad last year doesn't mean he wasn't supposed to be learning the offense as well..
2nd of all, the bolded works both ways...you look at it as Yates didn't separate himself from Keenum just b/c Yates is the incumbent....well Keenum didn't exactly definitively separate himself from Yates in preseason either.
& i don't have a problem with the whole pratice reps thing you suggest. But are we really trusting our HC to make the honest evaluation of who should win the starting spot? His fatal flaw is he's loyal to a fault....
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
The chorus of " boo's" that will rain down on Schaub this Sunday will be the equivalent of the thumbs down in Rome's colisseum, only difference Schaub won't be dismembered for our viewing pleasure.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
What is with you guys and this "experience" nonsense when it comes to Yates? Yates has one half a season, and you guys throw this around as if he is some 8 year vet that has been in multiple playoff seasons with huge performances on his belt. In that half season he had horrible pedestrian numbers and threw nothing but check downs. His experience showed that he was nothing but backup material.
And the whole "experience" thing is really overrated any way. Random QB's have popped up and had success quickly around this league for years. Warner had instant success, Rodgers had instant success, Wilson as a rookie had instant success, Kaepernick did as well. Hell, that guy from Cleveland (Hoyer) was tossing the ball around with those garbage weapons before he recently got injured. The league has made it easier for a bigger variety of QB's to be successful with the spread options working consistently. Experience is extremely overplayed here.
After Vandermeer's acc't got hacked I refuse to believe anything I see tweeted.
Ever again.
If a player has something to say, then he ought to man up and step in front of the cameras.
handswarmer
Rookie
What Qb after starting his career as a back up, being traded to another team, starting and enjoying success, then being benched after throwing 4 straight pick 6's, went on to post-season success and Super Bowl glory?
I agree 100%. Based on what all you "experience " guys say you never make a change. Experience is only ONE factor and it really could be NO factor if you never learn anything. For some it is a brand new day every day. I think MS is at a point that even if he has an advantage in experience his physical skills are so debilitating that it doesn't matter.
TJ looks so much like Matt it is scary. Stats in preseason looked very similar between TJ and Case but the eyes said a different story. I remember at least two great long passes caught in stride that Case made. It very well may occur that Case is not ready but why not find out. I still am for either making all 3 active or preferably MS inactive so that we see TJ and Case play.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
-Gary Kubiak
how many regular season games and playoff games does keenum have compared to yates?
how many years has keenum been a member of an nfl 53 man roster compared to yates?
i mean yates was already running this offense in college yet he couldnt outright beat out an undrafted and undersized qb.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
All those qb's either run offenses tailored to their skill set or gimmicky packages that do the same, have incrementally better coaches to guide them along or have been in the league for years & started or at least played in 1 regular season game before they got the nod....
None of which are in play in this situation here. Kubes ain't gonna all of a sudden start running spread packages exclusively for Keenum like he did at UH...He ain't gonna incorporate a zone read package to utilize his mobility and he ain't gonna all of a sudden start being aggressive with his play calling.
He'll likely smother Keenum until he becomes as robotic as Schaub is/was.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
-Gary Kubiak
how many regular season games and playoff games does keenum have compared to yates?
how many years has keenum been a member of an nfl 53 man roster compared to yates?
i mean yates was already running this offense in college yet he couldnt outright beat out an undrafted and undersized qb.
& the bolded more than anything should tell you how difficult it is to have success in this league....
There are only two starting QBs in the league right now that started their careers as back ups.
Tony Romo & Matt Schaub.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
yea if you dont have any balls to make bold moves and not even give yourself a chance to find out.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We can find out....once the season is lost...much how we handled Arian...
Come On Breh
Waterboy
so in other words, you want to prolong the inevitable.
Dont like how we handled Foster. I would much rather have figured out that Foster was better than steve slaton instead of having to find out through injury.
Imagine if steve slaton didnt get injured. We might never have seen foster.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Two additional counterpoints to the whole "Yates has more experience" argument:
1. Schaub has ten years of experience. Is that helping him?
2. No one has any NFL game "film" on Keenum. That means no defense really knows what to expect from him (of course, neither do we) which, for a while, could work to his advantage. Defenses will have to play him honest until they get a bead on what his strengths and weaknesses are. Or they could blitz like crazy and hope he gets rattled. But that's what draw plays and screens and 3-step drop plays are for.
Time to find out what the kid can do.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Understand the "inevitable" is going after a qb in the 1st round....that's what pretty much every team does when they need to badly upgrade a position & the FA market sucks...
Letting Keenum get some live bullets in without actually forfeiting this current season isn't prolonging anything...If anything it's protecting him. Because it wouldn't be fair to the kid to throw him in there & put the pressure on him of having to try & save this season. Give that to the guy who's already had that pressure on him & has been in the system long enough to where he should be improved from his performance on his rookie year....Yates.
If Yates fails, then it's extremely likely that the season is lost anyway & then that is when you go with Keenum to "see".
But as i said in another post....short of him lighting it up, his performance should in no way preventing us from doing the "inevitable".
eriadoc
Texan-American
OK, simple question for those of you who seem to have some agenda against Keenum:
What does Schaub do better than Keenum, right now?
Arm strength: Keenum showed he can make all the throws in the preseason and showed he had zip on the ball. Whenever I read someone saying Keenum doesn't have an NFL arm, I immediately write them off as having any opinion worth listening to. The tape is out there. The guy can sling it just fine. He doesn't have Favre's arm, but he's as good or better than Schaub.
Mobility: Not even really going into this, because it's evident for all to see that Schaub has zero mobility. We don't need a running QB, but one who can move around a little and do roll-outs that don't go backward would be nice.
Decision Making: Well, 9 INTs on the season, at least 6 of which have led directly to TDs, and I think we can throw that one out.
Accuracy: Ties into the last comment, but Schaub has been horribly inaccurate, even on completions. This is why completion percentage doesn't tell the tale. AJ has had to grow a foot this season just to haul in Schaub's passes. The receivers have no shot at getting YAC because of Schaub's inaccuracy. He's behind, too low, or too high, but almost never where the ball needs to be. Yeah, I know what back shoulder throws are and I'm not talking about those.
Experience: Yes, Schaub has a lot more. It sure doesn't translate to much, huh?
What does Schaub do better than Keenum? Serious question.
What does Schaub do better than Keenum, right now?
Arm strength: Keenum showed he can make all the throws in the preseason and showed he had zip on the ball. Whenever I read someone saying Keenum doesn't have an NFL arm, I immediately write them off as having any opinion worth listening to. The tape is out there. The guy can sling it just fine. He doesn't have Favre's arm, but he's as good or better than Schaub.
Mobility: Not even really going into this, because it's evident for all to see that Schaub has zero mobility. We don't need a running QB, but one who can move around a little and do roll-outs that don't go backward would be nice.
Decision Making: Well, 9 INTs on the season, at least 6 of which have led directly to TDs, and I think we can throw that one out.
Accuracy: Ties into the last comment, but Schaub has been horribly inaccurate, even on completions. This is why completion percentage doesn't tell the tale. AJ has had to grow a foot this season just to haul in Schaub's passes. The receivers have no shot at getting YAC because of Schaub's inaccuracy. He's behind, too low, or too high, but almost never where the ball needs to be. Yeah, I know what back shoulder throws are and I'm not talking about those.
Experience: Yes, Schaub has a lot more. It sure doesn't translate to much, huh?
What does Schaub do better than Keenum? Serious question.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I think it should be obvious to anyone something is horribly wrong with our offense, and it starts with both Kubiak and Schaub. Schaub just isn't who he used to be. We all know this, we all remember those years when the defense sucked and he'd be throwing TDs in the 2nd half, enough to win the game, but the defense would then suck it up as much as the offense is doing now. We've all seen Schaub at his best, but it may be over with now. If that truly is the case, there isn't any arguments against starting either Keenum or Yates instead of Schaub.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
everyone is squatting on those underneath crossing routes. We don't stretch the field vertically enough....hell, Andre has the same amount of TD's the last two years as opposing defenses in this plodding, tired old offense. Weak arm plus hard head coach. Bad combo.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
I have yet to see a valid reason why Keenum should not get a shot. The objections to him that I've read and heard are all assumed limitations with no supporting examples. What has been proven is that he can do things that Schaub and Yates cannot do.
For the record, I'm a Longhorn, not a Cougar, and I was against VY going to the Texans.
For the record, I'm a Longhorn, not a Cougar, and I was against VY going to the Texans.
Blake
MMQB
When you are tied at the hip to a sinking Matt Schaub, you will do anything to prove there isnt a hole in the boat.
I dont know what is going on in Schaub's head, but he is killing this team. And Kubiak cant seem to fix it. How much of our season is he going to use to figure that out?
I dont know what is going on in Schaub's head, but he is killing this team. And Kubiak cant seem to fix it. How much of our season is he going to use to figure that out?
Come On Breh
Waterboy
actually its prolonging the situation.
If you stick with schaub, you're not winning the superbowl. you cant really beat elite teams in the playoffs.
So that means this season wasted. So lets assume kubiak actually had the balls to make a change in the offseason, and go with tj yates, does he give him a full year to prove himself? Does Kubiak go schaub on Yates and we give him what one or two years to prove himself? then what? we go to case keenum? he's either the god 2nd coming of drew brees like a lot of posters claim him to be or what if he's a bust? do we give him a couple of years to prove it?
How many years have we wasted?
Keenum showed great talent at u of h. broke passing records. he played great during preseason and basically beat out a fellow young qb who had game and playoff experience and has been immersed in this offense for years.
Dont those things show talent? Dont those things warrant a chance to show what he can do in a regular season game?
As for protecting a qb, how many rookie qbs have started and shown competence? Keenum has been playing a lot of football. he has a lot of reps. If he implodes we can go to tj yates who also warrants a second look.
Its not like keenum or yates is a #1 overall first round draft pick where they have that command status for a lot of leeway. If he's just totally incompetent we go with yates. IF both are just crapping the bed we go back to schaub whose had time to sit, reflect, and gather his thoughts.
Its not like schaub is some first ballot superstar qb that was playing great that you couldnt bench him and go back to him.
Trail.Blazr
Hooked up to a Kool-Aid IV
I can offer one valid reason.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtYKtUT4WDU
Not to discredit Case, but this was a powerful moment and is hard to dismiss as a justification to give TJ a shot instead of Case. You speak of things Case can do that Schaub and Yates can't, however, that moment bears significant weight.
I have not seen Case play ever, except for preseason NFL games, which is VERY difficult to put any stock in. But to read into the Keenum supporters, if his skillset is as deserving a shot as it's made out to be, then I can assume that Keenum has been 3rd string out of Kubiak's Loyalty to #8 and #13, which if has any truth to it, doesn't bode well for Case does it?
The prospect of Case being an Arian Foster type of undrafted talent is intriguing to me, personally, as I've seen nothing to suggest that TJ is to the QB position what Arian is to the RB position. But I'm inclined to think Houston fans can't be lucky enough to see lightening strike twice like that in such close proximity. Would I love to see that theory proven wrong? YES
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
htowntexans1985
1st Round Pick
Come On Breh
Waterboy
so is this your attempt to prove my post wrong?
Or is this a way for you to pretend to save face because you cant come up with a proper response?
Good job. you really proved me wrong with your elaborate and well thought out response.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Your post doesnt make sense on multiple levels and your reading comprehension is staggeringly inept....my response was my way of helping you to save face as i was just gonna drop it....obviously you didnt take the hint.....but then again, based on your posts on this topic, cant say im surprised.