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All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
In his first NFL start, Keenum’s performance was the best in franchise history for a first-time quarterback with 271 yards passing, surpassing Matt Schaub’s previous record of 225 yards. Keenum was 15-of-25 with one touchdown, ten yards rushing, and a passer rating of 110.6.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I've seen nothing in Keenum today that suggests he's a worse option than Schaub or Yates. And at 2-5, while it's not a "lost season" quite yet it's getting close to the point where you want to see what you need to draft. If Keenum lays an egg, take a QB first round. If he looks serviceable at the NFL level, maybe you take an O-lineman instead.
The only thing that really bothers me is the fumble at the end of the game. Sacks come for different reasons, one QB is going to take them in some situations, others are going to take them in other situations, but I can pretty much gaurantee you who ever our QB is going to be going forward is going to get sacked.

If this is going to be a problem going forward with Keenum, & I don't know that it will be, then it's not the no brainer many want to make it out to be.

We are not out of this yet, even at 2-5. Until we are mathematically out of it the answer is always to play the players that give you the best option to win. Any idea to just play this guy or that guy to see what you got, is a loser's mentality.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Case did not look like a deer in the headlights like Schaub despite his inexperience. There were no turtle sacks and he threw downfield. He had good pocket presence and actually got the team to show some emotion. He exhibited leadership qualities and was not a flatliner like Schaub & Yates. The crowd at Reliant would cheer for him and make it louder. Give the guy a chance to see what he can do. It would take a few games to see if he can be the starter.
That all is likely to change when the honey moon is over & people start blaming him for the loss.
 

DX-TEX

#TomSavageDontCare
That all is likely to change when the honey moon is over & people start blaming him for the loss.
I honestly blame this entire losing streak on Schaub. According to Gary, his son Matt is the leader of this team and attitude reflects leadership.

So yes, its all on Matt. (And his daddy Gary)
 

Rey

Guest
That all is likely to change when the honey moon is over & people start blaming him for the loss.
Or he could become a really good qb and help us reach the level we want to be at.

But I guess since you want to say I told you so it's easier to come up with negative hypotheticals.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Exactly.

Some people were expecting him to play like garbage...and he outplays a lot of QBs that went against KC this year with literally no HB and now he's just "Okay."

It's whatever, if this guy is improving from what he did today...I'm not even going to say it. Kid has a LOT of potential.

Yeah he didn't play perfect (who does?) but his mistakes did not lose the game (unlike our previous QBs) and his play was the reason we were in it despite not having a RB.
I'd start Case. No question about it. Not because I think his play warrants it, but because Kubiak calls the game differently. I was wrong about the play-calling not being an issue, Kubiak's strategy seemed more like a winning strategy.... the 3rd & 3 shot at the end zone is what sold me, but real 3 & 4 WR sets & not "disguised" 2 TE sets tells me he feels like he thinks he has a chance to win that Schaub doesn't give him. I think he got more of a spark than the team did.

If Foster plays we EASILY win this game. If you think otherwise then you are basically saying that Foster is worth only one point. Hopefully the bye week is just what Foster and this offense need to get things right again.
I feel the threat to run "handled" the Chiefs' pass rush more than anything. There in the third when our run game was getting us nothing really hurt in that aspect. Using all our timeouts then not getting the ball back until the 2 minute warning didn't help either.

But I agree with you. Anyone thinking Tate can carry a team, or is worthy of a 3rd round pick or better at this point in the season is just delusional.

I think the only thing that could save Kubes job for another year is Case now. I'd be surprised if he trots Schaub back out there...

Absolutely. If he names Case the starter now, he'll get a pass. If he waits until we're out of contention, then it'll be too little, too late, & he should have known better.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Or he could become a really good qb and help us reach the level we want to be at.

But I guess since you want to say I told you so it's easier to come up with negative hypotheticals.
I don't want to say I told you so. I want to say, "We won the Super Bowl, we won the Super Bowl." & I'd love it if Case is that guy that takes us there. I've got nothing against Case, but this is honey moon period. He can throw it short of the sticks on 3rd down & it's the best pass short of the sticks that was ever thrown by any QB to ever play in the state of Texas.

If you're not seeing that, then it's you being disingenuous.

I was at the game last week, you should have heard the cheers Tj got for dumping the ball off. It was ridiculous. Case made some good plays today. He was in a bad situation in a bad way in the second half.

He didn't Kaepernick it & win the starters job outright. He didn't even Andre Luck it, the game was close, the ball was in his hands & he choked.

The only reason he should get the start our next game is because he'll take shots Schaub absolutely refuses to take.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
From the article:

“The guy can definitely move around back there, buy some time for his receivers to get open and he has the arm strength to make the big play down the field,” said Chiefs cornerback Sean Smith. “I found that out the hard way.”

Smith is a confident guy, someone who loves to refer to the “swag” he and his fellow Chiefs corners like to play with. But he offered that self-deprecating remark with a smirk, one that perhaps belies a certain amount of respect earned for a young quarterback who just played his tail off in a hostile environment.

“I don't want to say we overlooked him,” Chiefs safety Kendrick Lewis said, “but that guy was better than we thought
 

speedfreek

All Pro
vs. Cowboys
T. Romo C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT SACK QBR RTG FUM
30/42 298 7.1 1 0 3-17 57.1 99.1 1

vs. Eagles
M. Vick C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT SACK QBR RTG FUM
13/30 201 6.7 1 2 6-34 25.5 49.4 1

vs. Giants
E. Manning C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT SACK QBR RTG FUM
18/37 217 5.9 1 1 3-17 23.7 64.8 2

vs. Texans
C. Keenum C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT SACK QBR RTG FUM
15/25 271 10.8 1 0 5-50 36.4 110.6 1

TJ
 

Lord Bills

Destruction
“I told y'all Keenum can play,” Demps said. “He's gonna be good ... he's got good composure. He's like a fourth-year guy as a rookie. That's very rare.”
But in the process, Keenum still won the respect of the Chiefs, at least three of whom mentioned his “promising future” when discussing his day afterward.

“He definitely came in and played better than I thought he would,” Smith said. “He showed a lot of poise and confidence back there.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/10/20/4566010/keenum-earns-chiefs-respect-with.html#storylink=cpy
 

Vance87

All Pro
How do you feel about the game? “I’m really disappointed and frustrated. I thought our team played really hard there towards the end. We put the offense in a position and me in a position to go down and win the game, and we didn’t. I didn’t make the plays there at the end. You’ve got to give credit to Kansas City. They’ve got a heck of a defense, and they did a good job disguising looks and bringing pressure. But our receivers did a great job getting open all afternoon. I just didn’t make the throws when I needed to.”
Did you feel like you made some good things happen? “It’s nice to make good things happen, but I’m going to watch the film and I’m going to think about those couple of plays where I didn’t. That’s just how it goes. I’m learning this game. I’m learning that it’s those few plays in the crunch time that make the difference. You could play as well or as bad and make a few plays. A turnover here or there or whatever it is, it’s very small. I want to make them next time.”
The series where you guys made it down to the one yard line and couldn’t punch it in. How critical was that situation? “Yeah, it’s tough. I think we were down a running back at that point, maybe two. The sneak, I wish that would have got in, and I can make a better ball to DeAndre [Hopkins]. It’s a matchup we love, him on the goal line there. It wound up being a big play. It’s one of those plays where I want that ball back.”
The last three possessions ended in sacks. Was Kansas City doing something differently? “Yeah, they were doing a good job, and I got confused. My guys were working to get open, and I just need to get the ball out. My offensive line did a great job protecting all day. They did an extremely good job, especially running the ball early. I thought we had some really good drives. We just didn’t make the play at the end.”

With all the pressure on him, and the whole situation he was put in, all he can talk about is how disappointed he was that he couldn't pull out the win, and how honest he was in the criticism of himself. Compare how many times he says "I" instead of "we". He recognizes his own faults and isn't afraid to admit it. Amazing.
 

EllisUnit

Trump 2020
With all the pressure on him, and the whole situation he was put in, all he can talk about is how disappointed he was that he couldn't pull out the win, and how honest he was in the criticism of himself. Compare how many times he says "I" instead of "we". He recognizes his own faults and isn't afraid to admit it. Amazing.
Yep and that is the sign of a true leader, when he takes the blame instead of putting it on everyone.
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
I have discussed Case Keenum's limitations multiple times on this board. He is a short, older rookie-ish QB, who has had medical issues in college, who had questions about his arm. Most all of these still apply unfortunately after the game, however, I only really talked up Case when he was in college because I absolutely loved his college career. Setting all those records for UH is something he will always hang his hat on, but, when coming to the NFL it's almost a total crapshoot whether a player will be able to handle the game through the wear and tear and mental difficulties they face.

With that said, I think the Keenum brigade here has vastly exaggerated his college career in order to place gigantic expectations for him in the pros and treat those expectations as more of facts than anything. Keenum showed very admirably in his first start; which was on the road, against the most fearsome pass rush in the NFL, oh and all the active RB's get decimated while the game is well in question. He has certainly earned himself an extensive look this season (As in, put Schaub on IR, screw it at this point we're 2-5) in my opinion. This one performance is not going to preclude me from drafting a QB high at this point in the season, but I'm open to Keenum proving me wrong.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
i'm 99% sure we would of lost by waaaaay more than 1 point if Schaub was out there (healthy or not)
we would've lost by more than 1 point if KC would've elected to punch it in for a TD on Keenum's sack fumble at the 1 inch line....
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
we would've lost by more than 1 point if KC would've elected to punch it in for a TD on Keenum's sack fumble at the 1 inch line....
Negative.
Andy Reid would never take the risk of a turnover when he can have his team kneel 3 times to ensure a win.

... Unless Vegas wanted another 7 points, which would change the outcome of the OVER/UNDER spread by 1/2 of a point. :thinking:
 

b0ng

Bad Hombre
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1818465-case-keenum-not-the-answer-for-houston-texans-qb-woes

The entire situation is reminiscent of former NFL quarterback Tyler Thigpen, who caught the NFL by storm in 2008 for the then-atrocious Chiefs. Offensive coordinator Chan Gailey installed an offensive set straight out of the Coastal Carolina playbook, and Thigpen outperformed expectations because he was a good athlete for whom the game slowed down when he was comfortable.

Eventually, however, Thigpen's schtick was over because it wasn't sustainable. Teams watch tape—you can only surprise people so many times. Eventually, when all the wrinkles and gimmicks fade, a quarterback has to be able to make the throws. Thigpen couldn't do that on a consistent basis. Keenum can't either.
You guys should let this guy know what you think.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Negative.
Andy Reid would never take the risk of a turnover when he can have his team kneel 3 times to ensure a win.

... Unless Vegas wanted another 7 points, which would change the outcome of the OVER/UNDER spread by 1/2 of a point. :thinking:
He didn't do it b/c of that....It was on the other side of the 2 minute warning & he knew we had no more TO's to stop the clock....:kubepalm: If we just had 1 TO or the 2 minute warning i think he goes on ahead & punches it, he just takes his time doing it.

Besides, the risk of a TO is minimal there...probably 3 straight qb sneaks would've done it...which is what he probably should've done earlier when they stalled in the red zone on the 1 inch line...
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
He didn't do it b/c of that....It was on the other side of the 2 minute warning & he knew we had no more TO's to stop the clock....:kubepalm: If we just had 1 TO or the 2 minute warning i think he goes on ahead & punches it, he just takes his time doing it.

Besides, the risk of a TO is minimal there...probably 3 straight qb sneaks would've done it...which is what he probably should've done earlier when they stalled in the red zone on the 1 inch line...
But it was exactly because he knew we had no time-out left.
I remember at least one game when a coach did the stupid thing that resulted in a turnover and the other scored a TD for the win.
Why make any call other than to ensure 100% of the win?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
He didn't do it b/c of that....It was on the other side of the 2 minute warning & he knew we had no more TO's to stop the clock....:kubepalm: If we just had 1 TO or the 2 minute warning i think he goes on ahead & punches it, he just takes his time doing it.

Besides, the risk of a TO is minimal there...probably 3 straight qb sneaks would've done it...which is what he probably should've done earlier when they stalled in the red zone on the 1 inch line...
But it was exactly because he knew we had no time-out left.
I remember at least one game when a coach did the stupid thing that resulted in a turnover and the other scored a TD for the win.
Why make any call other than to ensure 100% of the win?

There's absolutely nothing to gain.
Any risk of all is a dumb risk.
 

idymoe

Noob
As Nance and Simms mentioned, Reid did not want to score there, because it would have given the Texans a small chance, whereas running the clock out gave them no chance.

With the Texans down one point, a touchdown and extra point gives KC an 8 point lead with almost 2 minutes to play, albeit with no timeouts. It gives the Texans a chance to score a touchdown and get a two point conversion to tie the game.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
But it was exactly because he knew we had no time-out left.
I remember at least one game when a coach did the stupid thing that resulted in a turnover and the other scored a TD for the win.
Why make any call other than to ensure 100% of the win?

Your logic doesn't make sense simply b/c the risk of a TO is there whether or not he chooses to punch it in with a qb sneak b/c the qb still has to take the snap on both plays...the risk is minimal.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
we would've lost by more than 1 point if KC would've elected to punch it in for a TD on Keenum's sack fumble at the 1 inch line....
If Any Reid would've done that, then he's a dumbass.. only a dumbass would do that.. The Texans would've been better off if he did elect to score as they would've been only down one score (8 points) with the ball back and still time on the clock. Hell the Texans would've moved out of their way and helped them into the endzone. They would've had small odds, but odds still greater than 0 which is what Reid gave them when he elected to sit on the ball. The fact that we played them so close is why he wasn't given the opportunity to just punch it in.
 

Rey

Guest
When the guy recovered the fumble and rolled into the EZ I was thinking that the Olineman that touched him should have let him score.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
When the guy recovered the fumble and rolled into the EZ I was thinking that the Olineman that touched him should have let him score.
Same here.. ala the Patriots.. it's "situational football"

When they were showing the replays, I was hoping the player wasn't touched, when I saw he was I knew Reid would do exactly what he did.. what anybody would do, and knew the game was over.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
When the guy recovered the fumble and rolled into the EZ I was thinking that the Olineman that touched him should have let him score.
Newton went after the ball and made contact with D. Johnson.
I don't know if you want to coach your O-linemen not to try to recover the ball; it seems rather counter-intuitive. Yes? No?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Your logic doesn't make sense simply b/c the risk of a TO is there whether or not he chooses to punch it in with a qb sneak b/c the qb still has to take the snap on both plays...the risk is minimal.
No, Mr Tex, the risks are different.

First off, when you kneel down, your entire team only has to concentrate on forming a wall. The Center only needs to concentrate on pulling the ball off the ground and handing it backward to the QB. The QB's job is to put a knee on thee ground immediately. It's like in golf when you have the ball right next to the hole.

A snap when you try to run with the ball (a QB sneak for example) involves the C having to think about blocking right after the snap; he has to think about more than one thing.

Secondly, a run or any other type of play involves contact; that's an extra risk.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No, Mr Tex, the risks are different.

First off, when you kneel down, your entire team only has to concentrate on forming a wall. The Center only needs to concentrate on pulling the ball off the ground and handing it backward to the QB. The QB's job is to put a knee on thee ground immediately. It's like in golf when you have the ball right next to the hole.

A snap when you try to run with the ball (a QB sneak for example) involves the C having to think about blocking right after the snap; he has to think about more than one thing.

Secondly, a run or any other type of play involves contact; that's an extra risk.
just agree to disagree on the level of risk.....
 

Rey

Guest
Newton went after the ball and made contact with D. Johnson.
I don't know if you want to coach your O-linemen not to try to recover the ball; it seems rather counter-intuitive. Yes? No?
I'm not blaming anyone. But if I was in that situation I'm telling my guys, if they get a pick or fumble, let them score.

A lot if situational things are counterintuitive. That's where discipline comes in.

It's counterintuitive to pick up a fumble on the 5 yard line and not score. But in that situation it's actually the right thing to do.

Again, I'm not blaming anyone. It happened, but if I was in that situation again I'd tell then to let them score.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm not blaming anyone. But if I was in that situation I'm telling my guys, if they get a pick or fumble, let them score.

A lot if situational things are counterintuitive. That's where discipline comes in.

It's counterintuitive to pick up a fumble on the 5 yard line and not score. But in that situation it's actually the right thing to do.

Again, I'm not blaming anyone. It happened, but if I was in that situation again I'd tell then to let them score.
Perhaps; but again, Newton wasn't trying to prevent a score; he wanted to recover the fumble.
If he was succesful, the Texans would still have the ball.
If it was fourth down, I would say for sure, don't even try to touch the ball; stay away.

It's a tough call.
Look at D. Johnson; he didn't want to go down; he wanted to score.
In the Chiefs' case, it was best for them not to score so they can run out the clock.
Johnson was wanting a TD there, don't you think?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yep and that is the sign of a true leader, when he takes the blame instead of putting it on everyone.
First, I don't think Schaub was trying to displace blame anywhere. He's just gotten too comfortable repeating what Kubiak said. Coming from Kubiak it's alright.. sounds like he's "protecting" a 10 year vet where you wouldn't think a 10 year vet needs protecting. I do agree Schaub should never have said "we" & whether he thought all the blame should have been on him or not, you're right as the leader of the team he needs to draw the blame to himself & protect his guys the way Kubiak was trying to protect his guy.

But what's even better than Keenum taking the blame...

My guys were working to get open, and I just need to get the ball out. My offensive line did a great job protecting all day. They did an extremely good job, especially running the ball early. I thought we had some really good drives.

Praising those guys in front of him that could have done a better job. It's okay.... expected that a guy would make mental mistakes in his first start at the QB position. But there appeared to be some mental gaffs by both Brown & Wade...... & Brooks isn't a rookie either (Newton's mistakes were far beyond mental Gaffes & I'll have to go back but nothing Myers did really sticks out).

Again, Matt parroted Kubiak's words, "They were battling all day."
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
we would've lost by more than 1 point if KC would've elected to punch it in for a TD on Keenum's sack fumble at the 1 inch line....
Or if Reid took the points instead of gambling on 4th down. We'd have lost by 4.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think that's something that should always be taken into account. However, Gary Kubiak is a much better OC than Chan Gailey. He made Matt Schaub nigh elite & Keenum is much more talented. If he's as smart, he'll do better than Tyler Thigpen, better than Schaub.

Kaepernick & RG3 are going to have to start running NFL offenses or they're not going to last long. Andrew Luck & Russel Wilson are gong to have to improve running their offenses. Which reminds me of an article I read awhile back

An earlier article by Davis Hsu mentions the "sippy cup lid" analogy - an idea that I think serves merit not based on the idea that Wilson is handcuffed in many ways, but by the fact that he's slowly going to transition into mastering the full potential of the playbook. If the offense can truly be considered "sippy cupped", then it is up to Wilson himself to learn and understand it enough so that he can take the lid off himself.

That's a pretty good article... it has some insight into our "audible" system.
 

Rey

Guest
Or if Reid took the points instead of gambling on 4th down. We'd have lost by 4.
Well since we're playing the if game, if graham would've come up with that TD catch early or if Hopkins finds a way to reel in that fade pass, we'd have win comfortably. If Arian didn't get hurt..

But I guess since you guys wanna be right it's easier to focus on the negative.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Well since we're playing the if game, if graham would've come up with that TD catch early or if Hopkins finds a way to reel in that fade pass, we'd have win comfortably. If Arian didn't get hurt..

But I guess since you guys wanna be right it's easier to focus on the negative.
.. really is becoming that blatantly obvious huh?
 

Rey

Guest
Perhaps; but again, Newton wasn't trying to prevent a score; he wanted to recover the fumble.
If he was succesful, the Texans would still have the ball.
If it was fourth down, I would say for sure, don't even try to touch the ball; stay away.

It's a tough call.
Look at D. Johnson; he didn't want to go down; he wanted to score.
In the Chiefs' case, it was best for them not to score so they can run out the clock.
Johnson was wanting a TD there, don't you think?
That's my point.

Johnson was trying to score when he actually should have just been looking to recover and ice the game. He was acting with insticts, but there are heady players that understand situations like that and can use discipline there.

Westbrook a few years back for the eagles had an easy walk in TD towards the end if the game. Th D was going to let him score, but he just fell down at the one.

Again, I'm not blaming anyone. Not saying anyone did anything wrong, but if I'm newton today I'm thinking that if I'd have pulled back some maybe we could have had another shot.

I haven't watched it again, so I don't know who was doing what. I'm just speaking in general and responding to your initial statement about instincts and not coaching against them. A lot of football is actually about going against your instincts.

But I get what you're saying about newton trying to recover the fimble if that's what happened.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Well since we're playing the if game, if graham would've come up with that TD catch early or if Hopkins finds a way to reel in that fade pass, we'd have win comfortably. If Arian didn't get hurt..

But I guess since you guys wanna be right it's easier to focus on the negative.
Let's talk about the, "If Matt Schaub started, we'd have lost by a whole bunch."
 

DX-TEX

#TomSavageDontCare
Didn't see this posted:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24111991/case-keenum-could-get-prolonged-look-as-houston-texans-starting-qb

“Gary loves him,” said one source close to Kubiak. “He's extremely cerebral. He doesn't have that big arm but he fits their mold -- he can extend plays and get out of the way. He understands the system. That's going to be a tough environment but he shows a pulse and moves the team some, I bet he sticks with him after the (Week 8) bye.”
Love this pic:

 

Rey

Guest
Let's talk about the, "If Matt Schaub started, we'd have lost by a whole bunch."
Why does that statement bother you? I like Ed Reed and he's played poorly....I thought it was a good signing at the time and I still think if we had more leads it could still be a good signing.

But I'm not running around defending his honor by downplaying Shiloh keo. LoL.

I just don't get ****ting on a guy that clearly played well and gave us a great chance to win a game that a lot of people thought we'd get scorched in.

Haven't even been able to discuss actual football aspects of cases play because so many people running around with these bogus ass arguments. I'm not even ready to say case is the guy but some of this hate is ridiculous.

If I could id bet money that if case were our last years second round pick from byu not as many people would be downplaying his first start. People would be excited that we had a qb that showed that kind if promise, especially since the current/former guy has not done anything.

And it's just one game. But I'd also bet money that the anti-keenum crowd would be saying "see! I told u he sucked!" If he couldn't get it done.

You'd be in here thumping your chest talking about Schaub being the best guy for the job and how keenums poor game should end the discussion. Our best chances are with Schaub.
Look, y'all can deny it, deflect, call me names, get snarky, be offended but I know what's up. And really you guys do too. But this message board stuff is just good fun so I ain't even mad at y'all bro. Like I said I know the drill.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Why does that statement bother you? I like Ed Reed and he's played poorly....I thought it was a good signing at the time and I still think if we had more leads it could still be a good signing.

But I'm not running around defending his honor by downplaying Shiloh keo. LoL.

I just don't get ****ting on a guy that clearly played well and gave us a great chance to win a game that a lot of people thought we'd get scorched in.
MSR. Good post.
 


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