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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
banned1976
sleeper mode
When Watson comes back, hopefully healthy. Notice how Fuller stopped catching TD's when Watson went out. Coaching didn't cause Fuller to regress. Coaching didn't cause Hopkins to have a sub-par 2016 (in comparison to his own standards). You can blame some things on coaching, even some players. But coaching didn't make those aforementioned players regress nor did they make Derek Newton a turnstile for most of his playing career.
Some players don't take to coaching well, either. Every coach has had those guys including Belichick (the GM and the HC; he's drafted them and has been unable to make them better).
Some of us would say that's the difference between Watson's play-making ability and Savage's lack of same. Or it could be the difference in play calling with one QB vs. the other.
Unless you think Watson and Savage are equals play making-wise
Anyhow, you think what you like.
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banned1976
sleeper mode
Do you know what I'm thinking? Judging by your response I don't think you do. The combination of Watson and O'Brien looked good. The players around Watson, with O'Brien calling the plays and Watson executing them had the offense humming. Am I missing something here? Ohhhh, I know what it is. O'Brien sucks and anybody would be better than him! I just want to die as long as he's the HC. I'd rather go to prom alone! Does that kind of sum up your feelings? I know I captured Cak's.
Nope, have no idea what you're thinking.
That's why I couldn't understand how you singled out Fuller for his loss of production when the whole offense, not just Fuller, fell off after Watson got hurt. But don't take my word for it, look at the scores. We managed to score 30 pts one time after Watson got hurt. That's after scoring 30+ for five weeks in a row when Watson was the starter.
And no, I'm not O'Brien's biggest fan but if Watson likes him and wants him to stay and the two of them continue to be productive together, that's good enough for me.
...prom...?? ...dude, srsly?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Aah, prom. The 1st redhead. Reverend's daughter. Wild child. Back when being friendly was a fake ID.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Thought Ryan was the QB coach.
Sounds like Watson saved Obiens job and got Ryan an interview.
Kid is good.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
If the offense was just humming along with Watson, then explain Bill O'Brien's ***** ass playcalling against the Patriots and the Seahawks costing the team two wins.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
If you are asking me:
There was lots of speculating that if Obrien had left the ball in Watsons hands instead of running the ball when he did we could have won those two games.
I am not too sure we could ever have scored enough points the keep up with what the D was giving up.
I still believe that Obrien is a good coach. But is a work in progress. We shall see.
I still believe that Obrien is a good coach. But is a work in progress. We shall see.
So many things he's done show us otherwise ....
Just look at the OL for example - Benched Mancz who played well the entire season prior while Martin struggled this entire season (may be a product of the OG's) when one of them should have been moved to OG because both OG's sucked the air out of the stadium all season long .... He played Breno Guacamole Every Snap of the season and he was literally the worst ranked OT in the league. XSF was very near the bottom ranked OG in the league .... yet he kept sending him out there, when he had options that had proven capable.
Many other questionable things like clock management , then blows up about it in the presser "WE AINT TALKIN BOUT THAT" .... stupid play calls.
Starting Savage over Watson to start the season ..... Savage was epically pathetic while Watson was historically great while it lasted.
At RB he kept running L.Miller on early downs instead of Foreman who was more productive ....
The list goes on and on and on ...
He shoulda been canned right along with RS's demotion errr hiatus.
and that's just THIS year....
adama51
Walk-on
LMAO i thought Bill was calling Rick a very tough woman
adama51
Walk-on
Reddit.com will steal your soul if you let it
zshawn10
All Pro
patrick
✔@PatDStat
Bill O’Brien has to do a better job of building a stronger coaching staff. John Perry (WR) and Mike Devlin (OL) helped build a strong scheme around Watson along with Ryan. Those two staying will help.
8:44 PM - Jan 9, 2018
patrick@PatDStat
of Bill O’Brien’s original coaching staff (2014) of 20, only 7 remain. 2 of those 7 started as off. or def. assistant. There has been a coaching change of at least one position group each season.
6:41 PM - 9 Jan 2018
patrick
✔@PatDStat
Sean Ryan interviews for the Browns OC position tomorrow and Mike Vrabel is still under consideration for HC vacancies. That could be an extra 2 spots if they leave.
8:42 PM - Jan 9, 2018
patrick
✔@PatDStat
Texans have to replace their RB, Secondary, Special teams coordinator, assistant ST coach, strength and conditioning positions.
8:41 PM - Jan 9, 2018
✔@PatDStat
Bill O’Brien has to do a better job of building a stronger coaching staff. John Perry (WR) and Mike Devlin (OL) helped build a strong scheme around Watson along with Ryan. Those two staying will help.
8:44 PM - Jan 9, 2018
patrick@PatDStat
of Bill O’Brien’s original coaching staff (2014) of 20, only 7 remain. 2 of those 7 started as off. or def. assistant. There has been a coaching change of at least one position group each season.
6:41 PM - 9 Jan 2018
patrick
✔@PatDStat
Sean Ryan interviews for the Browns OC position tomorrow and Mike Vrabel is still under consideration for HC vacancies. That could be an extra 2 spots if they leave.
8:42 PM - Jan 9, 2018
patrick
✔@PatDStat
Texans have to replace their RB, Secondary, Special teams coordinator, assistant ST coach, strength and conditioning positions.
8:41 PM - Jan 9, 2018
"I was there with Brady and Belichick!!!" <----got him the job
"Remember those 6 games with Watson!!!" <----helped him keep the job
Hopefully, the next quote is "built a team that won an AFC Championship game" instead of the yucky alternative.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
You know, I "can understand" letting this loser play out his contract.
But they'e working on giving him an extension.
How in the living **** is that justified. How.
But they'e working on giving him an extension.
How in the living **** is that justified. How.
It's the McNair way.
How the he** did Kubiak/Smith keep their jobs afte 2010?
Or Smith keep his job after a 2-14 season?
houstonhurricane
Veteran
Give him a one-year extension. Long-term after a 4-12 season may be the dumbest thing we’ve done yet.
texanhead08
All Pro
If you give him an extension you better be willing to eat the contract if we go 4-12 again next year. There is no reason to keep a coach after back to back horrible season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
John McClainVerified account@McClain_on_NFL 3h3 hours ago
While the Texans are negotiating on a contract to hire Brian Gaine as their new GM, they're also working on an extension for Bill O'Brien, who has one year left on his contract. O'Brien is expected to sign the long-term extension.
While the Texans are negotiating on a contract to hire Brian Gaine as their new GM, they're also working on an extension for Bill O'Brien, who has one year left on his contract. O'Brien is expected to sign the long-term extension.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Maybe dumb for McNair, but why do we care? He can still be fired after next season if it’s another disastrous season.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
HC contracts (Gruden aside) are typically guaranteed. McNair can fire after 1 year but it's a lot less likely if he owes $24 mil than if he owes 0 or $6 mil.
It's also less resources we have to hire a better front office when the time comes.
Shishkabob
All Pro
while I want to agree with this you have to think about it from another stand point. We have a lot of openings in our coaching department this year. Giving Obrien a long term extension will give him a better chance to fill those spots with quality candidates, no one wants to leave the job they are at to go somewhere where they think they might be out of work in a year.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Not a matter of money imo. Its just less likely b/c of how patient McNair is with making his decisions. He tends to give guys a little more time than most owners would to right the ship before he steps in with executive orders & does...or orders someone to do what needs to be done & that theme has repeated itself over numerous decisions he's been at the center of. Money rarely if ever has been a big part of his decision making; why should it be he's worth billions. Although we only had 3 games left, he fired Kubiak mid-season when many here thought he wouldn't. Here recently many also thought that this power struggle betwen BoB and Smith leaned heavily in Smith's favor but when it came down to it, BoB was the last guy standing.
So i'm sure when the time comes to fire BoB...& it will, how much he owes him under his current contract will have very little to do with it.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
He does not...IMO, the bottom would have to drop out ala Kubiak before McNair considers firing him any earlier than 2 years from now.
adama51
Walk-on
it would also depend on the level of losses.
hypothetically, Did he lose to the Browns or give up 10 sacks to the Jags again?
or another hypothetical
much like this season did he take the Pats to 2OT but Brady did Brady things or lose to the Steelers on a no-call by the refs? Mcnair seems the type to see the tiniest bit of progress as a reason to keep someone. for good or for bad
I'm mostly OK with McNair being that way with head coaches. Looking back through NFL history, the teams with the most turnover at HC tend to be the worst teams. I wish he were a little less patient with his GM, but I'd like to see the next one get 3 years minimum unless draft classes and FA signings are just abysmal.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Why hasn't O’Brien already filled those spots with quality candidates? He's been coach for four years now.
Good assistant coaches don't grow on trees and all of the good ones are already employed. Hell, even good assistant coaches look bad when surrounded by the lack of talent/depth that Smith has brought to the Texans. Larry Izzo is a perfect example. Good ST coach until forced to work with Dollar General talent. He brought in a highly sought after linebacker coach.
adama51
Walk-on
This is when the GM steps in. If your coach wants an assistant coach so bad he cant see straight then it's on the GM to get the owner to put his money where his mouth is and open up his wallet to offer him. Of course the best assistants are snatched up but it's on the GM/owner to make a play on him despite the price.
Not saying you should break the bank but if that's your guy then you do what you can to get him. I'm not a fan of getting asst. coaches out of the bargain bin but I'm sure the lack of talent doesn't do them any favors
You guys both have great points. We need to extend OB long enough to make it easier to hire quality coaches but not so long that it would be prohibitive to fire him should the need arise
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Izzo had never been in charge before the Texans.
Vrabel got here before Izzo. King got here before both having worked under Kubiak & Wade
Shishkabob
All Pro
Mcnair is a billionaire, no matter the contract he gives Obrien it shouldn't prohibit him from firing him. not saying it won't, but it shouldn't. I think the raiders are still on the hook to pay Del Rio for 2 more years, while paying gruden 100 mil over 10 years
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Easy to spend other peoples' money. McNair didn't get to be a billionaire by treating $20+ mil as trash.
To get the power BOB wanted he had to fire some assistants.
It was a trade off.
BTW, there is always turnover coaching staffs, regardless of whether the team is good or bad. Look at the Pats, they are probably going to lose both McDaniels and Patricia.
Yep and uncle Bob loves his $$$$.
I worded that poorly. I meant OB brought Vrabel in. Several NFL teams think the Texans have good assistant coach as several are interviewing with other teams.
See also the Os trade to Cleveland.
I've never heard a peep about an assistant being too high priced for the Texans.It's a pretty dynamic situation. The assistant you want to poach from another has to want to be poached. Would Josh McDaniels want to come to the Texans as OC? That would be a risky lateral move and show disloyalty to BB.
Nope,
Extending Smith/Kubiak after 2010 was the stupidest thing McNair has done. History is repeating itself with BOB.
Same with Carr/Watson, get franchise QB and not invest in protecting him.
Shishkabob
All Pro
How was that the stupidest move? we were a team on the rise, and won the division the next 2 years, making playoffs for the first time, and if haynesworth didn't hulk smash schuabs foot could have maybe done more. But guess what even though Kubiak signed another extension in 2012, Mcnair was afraid to fire him when the bottom fell out in 2013
What did they win and were they ever true contenders?
Do you really think that Schaub was going to beat Brady? If so, we were seeing football in 2 different lights. Even though you may be able to post some stats to prove differently, Schaub always shrunk under the bright lights.
I would be curious to see how the asst coaches pay stacks up to other teams in the league. I honestly dont know how they stack up.
Shishkabob
All Pro
you are skirting around my point. also yes in 2012 they were considered true contenders, and before 2013 started many people nationally were picking us to win a superbowl. Schuab has 0 to do with extending Kubiak and Smith, plus in 2010 we hadn't played in big games for us to know he shrunk under the bright lights. you can't use revisionist history to prove your point. you said extending the 2 of them was the dumbest move the Texans ever made, but it's lead to our first 2 division titles, our first 2 playoff wins. Just because it didn't work out in the end doesn't mean it was a bad move back then. it was also certainly far from the dumbest move this teams ever made
Agree to disagree, the way I see it is since 2010 either or both of Smith/Kubiak have been in charge of the Texans org and they were never going to be a championship quality team with those guys in the positions they were in. I said this at the time and that the Texans org was just wasting their time. BTW, if a team doesn't reach a AFCCG they weren't true contenders and a big part of that is on the QB. You know like blowing homefield advantage throughout the playoffs by losing 3 out of the last 4 regular season games. We just look at that part of Texans history differently.
I will say right now I feel the same way about the BOB regime. Just wasting time and resources. Hopefully I'm wrong this time around.
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