Yeah I agree, but Rick isn't going anywhere because it seems McNair loves the guy.
McNair is the root of these problems.
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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
McNair is the root of these problems.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
You must be talking about that throw to Fido on the 3 instead of in the end zone. Something just has to be done.
Mangler
Toro de España
That, and the numerous (predictable) pass on 1st & 10, then running Lamar Miller straight down the middle as follow up. Not to mention the check downs for two to three yards on third and long.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Until today I thought we'd comfortably make the playoffs regardless of our issues.
Now it isn't looking so likely.
I feel I've seen this from QBS before, Brock was playing better at the start of the year than he is now. The trend is downwards and his confidence is gone.
Gotta be time for Savage at this point. Give Brock the leeway by reporting an injury to see if he can get himself together in time for training camp, pick for need best available QB 1st round of the draft and hope that one of the 3 is a quality option by the start of next season.
Surely there is no other way?
Now it isn't looking so likely.
I feel I've seen this from QBS before, Brock was playing better at the start of the year than he is now. The trend is downwards and his confidence is gone.
Gotta be time for Savage at this point. Give Brock the leeway by reporting an injury to see if he can get himself together in time for training camp, pick for need best available QB 1st round of the draft and hope that one of the 3 is a quality option by the start of next season.
Surely there is no other way?
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Bill O'Brien's presser after the game.
Way to dodge all the tough questions!
It's alright. Let's just get ready for Green Bay.
According to ESPN Stats & Info, Brock Osweiler entered the day with a 28 percent completion percentage on passes thrown 15 or more yards past the line of scrimmage this season, the lowest rate among qualified QBs. He went 1-for-10 with three picks on such passes against the Chargers on Sunday.
Way to dodge all the tough questions!
It's alright. Let's just get ready for Green Bay.
According to ESPN Stats & Info, Brock Osweiler entered the day with a 28 percent completion percentage on passes thrown 15 or more yards past the line of scrimmage this season, the lowest rate among qualified QBs. He went 1-for-10 with three picks on such passes against the Chargers on Sunday.
So Bill answers a question that he is going to watch tape and fix mistakes. Well the most glaring mistake is the starting QB, until you address that expect the same results dumbass.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I stopped paying attention to what OB says a long time ago. Either he just says stuff to get through the media sessions or he just doesn't really have a clue on how to fix the offense.
I think it's a mixture of both.
I think it's a mixture of both.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Anyone miss Kubes yet?
I'm more interested in this team going forward.
I still do not believe Kubiak could have taken this team forward. Not with what we have.
I'm still not convinced we aren't going forward. Definitely looks like we've stalled. But we've got five games & the playoffs coming that will tell us. Yeah, maybe you guys can see it. I do agree if they keep playing & coaching like they have, then we've probably gone backwards.
What other position on this team can a player be as bad as Brock and still keep their starting job?
This is my primary problem with O'Brien right now. Brock is so terrible that there is an obvious agenda to keep him starting games. I cannot think of any other position where a player could have such abysmal results and not get benched. It's pathetic really. Dude is statistically the worst starting QB in the league right now.
This is my primary problem with O'Brien right now. Brock is so terrible that there is an obvious agenda to keep him starting games. I cannot think of any other position where a player could have such abysmal results and not get benched. It's pathetic really. Dude is statistically the worst starting QB in the league right now.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Agreed. Rahim Moore anyone? They gave Moore about 4-5 games to get his **** together and when he didn't he was benched and then sent packing. But Brock? Nah. Let's keep rolling out the Yugo in hopes he magically turns into a Mercedes.
This braintrust is trying like hell to save face. Which makes it political instead of about results. Nobody was happier to see the Brock signing then me. I said then that I was just happy to see them be assertive and try to hit a home run. Well, I have to stick with that. They swung, and they struck out. It happens. I'm upset that it didn't work, but I maintain to this day that I am at least happy they took a swing for the fences instead of rolling out the known craptitude they had been doing.
However, at some point you have to walk back to the dugout with your tail between your legs, and let the next batter take a few swings. This is where they are failing the team and the fans - trying to save their own skin by hoping like hell Brock can magically turn it around. And stupid pancakes actually compared Brock's first half season to Moon's. You know, someone that won 4 grey cups in professional football. LMAO. Pathetic. I think Ricky feeds imbecilic stuff like that to pancakes.
I know I'll get flack for this but I think that Weeden gives us the best chance to win now. I fully understand his track record nor am I comparing him to Tom Brady any time soon, but he did far more on very short notice then Brock has with a ton of personal grooming including a complete off-season. Long term, perhaps Savage has more upside but I want to win and win now - therefore Weeden leapfrogs the field and starts. This is if I were making the decisions. Obviously, I'm not.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
This is what I don't get. How are you saving face continuing to run that garbage out there and potentially blowing this suck ass division? Wouldn't that just put more egg on your face?
You do what you can to win. Period. If that means benching a $72M man then so be it. Fans will forgive if you win.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Last years ob played the quarterback shell game.
This year he's playing a tambourine on the deck of the titanic while it sinks.
I'm really ok with them taking a chance this past offseason and getting a qb. I wasn't the biggest fan of oz at the time but figured i hadn't seen his every start. Surely they knew something i didn't so i started to buy in. Couple that with what i thought was a very productive offseason and i was optimistic
Fast forward,
I'll still be ok with them taking a shot at quarterback this offseason. The only thing worse than missing on that quarterback will be refusing to acknowledge that they missed. As someone posted above, we signed raheem Moore and benched him when his performance became detrimental to success. Why is oz the exception? Seems like it would be a wake up call for everyone on the team.
This year he's playing a tambourine on the deck of the titanic while it sinks.
I'm really ok with them taking a chance this past offseason and getting a qb. I wasn't the biggest fan of oz at the time but figured i hadn't seen his every start. Surely they knew something i didn't so i started to buy in. Couple that with what i thought was a very productive offseason and i was optimistic
Fast forward,
I'll still be ok with them taking a shot at quarterback this offseason. The only thing worse than missing on that quarterback will be refusing to acknowledge that they missed. As someone posted above, we signed raheem Moore and benched him when his performance became detrimental to success. Why is oz the exception? Seems like it would be a wake up call for everyone on the team.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
OB press conference is funny.
DrumBeatsLouder
Waterboy
^^ interesting indeed and equivocally answered as "people have given up on him"... "wait, I didn't mean to say that"
a lot of 'defending/protecting the starting QB'... and deviation when asked about BO's progress / regression
a lot of 'defending/protecting the starting QB'... and deviation when asked about BO's progress / regression
Wolf
100% Texan
Youd think that the Texans would go whoa, we have been down this road before.... with HWSNN
Even if obrien were to get fired.. brock will get shoved down the new coaches throat..
So i will take my happy pill and hope for the best. Brock is ours for 2 seasons for sure and i guess obrien too
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
It's just inexcusable to not at least give Savage a shot. I haven't been even remotely in favor of firing OB until this point. But one more piss poor week by Osweiler with zero consequences, and I'm done with OB.
Porky had a perfect phrase: it's become political. This isn't about sports. It's not about winning. It isn't about ticket sales. It's about one thing: ego.
Maybe Texian is right with his conspiracy on McNair. Maybe he really is extremely involved, has Rick setup as nothing more than a figurehead to do his bidding, and OB just shuts his mouth and plays who he is told to play.
Why should we continue to support, financially and emotionally, a franchise like this?
Porky had a perfect phrase: it's become political. This isn't about sports. It's not about winning. It isn't about ticket sales. It's about one thing: ego.
Maybe Texian is right with his conspiracy on McNair. Maybe he really is extremely involved, has Rick setup as nothing more than a figurehead to do his bidding, and OB just shuts his mouth and plays who he is told to play.
Why should we continue to support, financially and emotionally, a franchise like this?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Porky you are permitted to watch them. You're allowed to enjoy their games (in fact any game) if it's a good match up and entertaining. You can appreciate their players and offense etc for being good if you must. In fantasy football you can acquire and start whomever you like - no holds barred.
However,
You are not allowed to root for them unless they're playing an AFC south rival of the Texans and or a game that directly impacts our playoff chances.
You are not allowed to brag about them.
You are in no way allowed to purchase, wear, or display cowboys merchandise.
Steps to recovery:
It's imperative to treat the cause and not the symptoms. As an example, strong cologne only masks the smell and does nothing to prevent it.
-Consider penicillin for mild infections and cipro for more invasive infestation.
-Remember the cowboys star is in fact a Pentagram. It may be necessary to seek prayer or exorcism.
The fact that you've revealed your sentiment here leads me to believe your sicker then you know. Remember to cover your mouth when you caugh and wash your hands regularly.
Mangler
Toro de España
While I don't necessarily disagree, and with all due respect, I'm going to ask you to calm down. Sure he got a 4 year $72M contract (which only binds us to him for two years) and sure he's stinking it up because he's still learning O'Brien's super complex "system" that even O'Brien himself seems to not get, but the entire front office made it perfectly clear that they were aiming to get a "game manager."
There's no crazy conspiracy, and probably no agenda, he's just given the benefit of the doubt because more than half of our offense consists of rookies and/or vets who are also new to this "complex" system. Only one will tell if he can become the game manager that Rick Smith and O'Brien seem to continuously miss on.
Max
Veteran
Brock has proven that he isn’t up to the role of ‘game manager’ that BoB seems intent on confining him to. I posted a few weeks back how much better Brock plays (and our running game) w/ an offensive game plan that is pass first vs run first. I’m not sure if Brock is good enough to make it in this league even with a coach/offense that brings out the best in him, but it’s becoming more and more clear that we may never find out because of the game plan that BoB continues to roll out. We finally looked like we had some things going in our passing game vs Raiders – why not have a game plan that builds on this? BoB’s lack of imagination and inability to have a game plan that gets the ball to our play makers in space has me questioning his own ability to make it in this league. I’m open to him ‘figuring it out’, but he seems to be on the same trajectory as Brock at the moment. Something tells me that if Brock had played his 11 games this year in New England he wouldn’t be bound for the scrap heap as it currently appears. He would probably be bound for a team that would pay him $72 million that would then turn him into the qb that we see today.
H
humblegeo
Guest
The fact of the matter is that Savage was a wasted draft pick when they could have drafted a much better quarterback in earlier rounds. Savage hasn't shown much while he's been here and I think he is perfectly happy sitting on the bench. At this point, after all of this quarterback circle jerk clusterf**k we've been thru as fans here in Houston, I have zero confidence in this organization's ability, when it comes to the quarterback position.
H
humblegeo
Guest
The fact of the matter is that Savage was a wasted draft pick when they could have drafted a much better quarterback in earlier rounds. Savage hasn't shown much while he's been here and I think he is perfectly happy sitting on the bench. At this point, after all of this quarterback circle jerk clusterf**k we've been thru as fans here in Houston, I have zero confidence in this organization's ability, when it comes to the quarterback position.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I felt the same way and was willing to give Os a chance. Man Os is really bad. I call him 3 yard Os. He misses by about 3 yds far too often.
Os is the exception because he's McNair/Rick's handpicked guy. After BOB screwed up the Mallett/Hoyer thing last yr, he was taken out of the Os equation. If Os was BOB's pick he should be fired immediately. Because that would mean he cant pick a QB to save his life.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Oh please. It's the same "complex" system Hoyer, Fitzpatrick and 7 other QBs (I've lost count) has had to learn, and all have looked a whole lot better than he has. I mean at least Hoyer could put 30 points on a bad defense or in garbage time. Os can't even do that. Chicago, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, Jacksonville and Indy are all in the bottom 13 in points allowed and this offense is averaging 19.8 points against them. I'd take Os the game manager in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, he's not that. Not even close.
And this "bunch of rookies" excuse is pretty lame too. That doesn't seem to be effecting the Cowboys this season, and a ton of other teams in others. Still learning?? It's been an entire off-season, training camp and 70% of the regular season now. How the hell long does it take? And shouldn't there at least be some signs of improvement along the way?
No doubt the play calling has it's issue, hell, play design in a lot of cases for that matter, but that's not what's keeping this offense from functioning. It's the ton of little things that Brock just isn't doing very well at all. Not throwing receivers open, throwing behind receivers, not seeing the field/open receivers, staring down receivers, the back shoulder throw, sideline throw, late with the throw, the inability to get the ball to Hopkins, all of those things. If he was half way decent at any of them....I just don't know. He's not though and I don't see the progression. I don't see him getting better. I don't see him "learning" a damn thing.
Yeah, I get that we're stuck with him because this organization is more worried about being embarrassed for getting it wrong with Os than they are about being embarrassed about letting the sorriest division in football slip away. People get it wrong all the time. It isn't that big a deal. Put the best players out there, to hell with money and draft position. Seattle paid a bunch of money for a FA QB once and he didn't even make it out of camp before being replaced by the better "rookie" player. Money be damned.
That said, maybe Tom Savage just isn't that good. Problem there is, I just don't trust the talent evaluations of ANYBODY in this freaking organization.
TexasCowboy
Straight Talker
Ok, it's not the best of my work, but I'm working with an old ass version of PS. So for all the OB haters (like me) here is the soap.
Even comes with it's own slogan
It's rough, it's tough and it's guaranteed to take **** off no one (money back guaranteed)
bigmck
Rookie
Yea, I blame Moon. He threw so many TD that day, he never used up the clock. -- Brock is not going to let that happen to him.
bigmck
Rookie
He could be the UofH coach and never even have to move. That is a selling point to get rid of him.
I hear ya', man. While I'm not quite there, yet, I do actually enjoy watching the Cowboys, as opposed to feeling like I'm enduring a Texans game.
I grew up hating the Cowboys, but over time, I have become pretty ambivalent about them. Now I realize that a lot of Houston hate toward Dallas is not born from true rivalry. It comes from jealousy.
During the first 2-14 Texans season (sad that we've had two of them in 15 years), some of us were joking about jumping ship to be Cowboys fans. One of the guys in our tailgating group grew up a Cowboys fan and was about to buy all of us customized Cowboys jerseys. We never let it get that far.
But the truth is that if I had known as a kid that the Oilers were eventually going to be murdered out of existence, maybe I would have joined my best buddy in 8th grade and become a Cowboys fan, too.
lol! I see you have swallowed the blue pill. You keep buying that pure malarkey that Kirby is selling you. They need fans like you.
Meanwhile, those of us bold enough to take the red pill see Brock for what he is right now: a very inconsistent, crappy QB that is not held to the same standards as the rest of the team.
I understand your point, and do agree that someone like Joe Montana would never have blown a 33 point lead in a playoff game.
That said, though, the Oilers' coaching staff & GM are responsible for not having the ability to conduct a basic ball control offense. They had the roster stacked with itty-bitty receivers and did not even have a FB or TE on the roster. They simply could not pound the ball and eat clock with the roster they had. They were built to score, a lot.
The prevent defense is the biggest mistake of the game. Going to that soft zone crap allowed the Bills to consistently move the ball down the field unchallenged. Moon never played defense.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
That is so painful to admit, but I'm afraid you're right. There has never been a rivalry between Houston and Dallas. Sure, we have the Rockets and Mavs in the same division and now the Rangers and Astros, but the only team in Dallas that Houstonians seem to support is the Cowboys. Is there a big part of me that thinks it was spineless for so many of these Houstonians to jump on the bandwagon of the perennial Super Bowl contending Cowboys of the 70s and 90s? Yes.
But you know what? Those "spineless" Houstonians have definitely gotten a hell of a lot more enjoyment out of football than I ever have. As an Aggie fan, instead of a Longhorn, and an Oiler/Texan instead of a Cowboy, my years of football fandom have been filled with almost nothing but misery. While my friends were living the dream during the Vince Young UT years, I was suffering through continued years of mediocrity. The same can be said for the Cowboys and Oilers of the 90s and the Texans and Cowboys of today. And with as much as we all can make fun of Tony Romo, the Texans have NEVER had a QB as good as Romo.
So sure, it might be a bandwagon move to support the Cowboys. It might make you spineless. But you know what? You'll be having a hell of a lot more fun than "hardcore" and loyal fans like me.
I hear ya', man. Very well said.
I have tended to value loyalty in my life a lot. Loyal to my family, friends, and even city's sports teams. More often than not, though, that loyalty has come at a price.
You hit the nail on the head with Houston Cowboys fans getting more enjoyment out of football than we ever have. In the '70's, 90's, and today, that has been the case, and I have no period as a Houston pro football fan to ever feel like we have something special.
Screw loyalty. Go Cowboys!
False Start
On # 69
I would rather watch professional Croquet, or have my left nut removed before I ever became a Cowboys fan.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Go Cowboys!!!
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Liked your post and really want to agree with you, but I'm finally getting to a point where I feel like I am needlessly putting myself through agony rooting for this team. I love football, but I'm the type of sports fan that likes to root for teams and have passion as opposed to just watching games for the hell of it.
So if I'm going to keep watching football, are the Texans really the team I want to put my heart and soul into? And does that make logical, rational sense?
Like I said, I get you and tend to agree with you. The passionate Dallas hater in me wants to high five you after that post. But then there's the frustrated, approaching apathetic, me that chimes in. And when that part of me starts to speak up, I question how much longer I can hold onto my Texans fandom and Dallas hatred.
I think judging Brock is going to be different. We know the QB can make the players around him look better, but it works both ways. at this stage, Brock needs the rest of the team to help him look bettsr. Not that I'm blaming everyone but Brock.
This is the way I've come to terms with it.He's Joe Flacco. I mean, I know he's not Joe Flacco, you know own he's not Joe Flacco. but for some reason the Texans think he's Joe Flacco. Learning a new offense & struggling with it. They believe once he gets it, he's going to take this team far. They saw something in him to give him $37M. They believe in him.
They don't believe in Tom Savage, or Brandon Weeden. If they did, they wouldn't have signed Brock for $37M guaranteed. & that's all there is to it. They believe in Brock. They don't believe in Savage.
Scooter
Funky
I grew up a Cowboys fan because my Dad was, but I took more towards the Oilers. Even though the Cowboys were winning trophies while I was still fairly young I just never really connected with them. Fast forward 20+ years and I'm still in the same boat. Not a Cowboys fan, but I'll root for the team from Texas over most others, and enjoy their failures just as often.
This year I think people are less jumping on the bandwagon (at least around here) than they are appreciating a very good style of football. Not to put words in anybody's mouth of course. You don't have to be a fan of the teams to have found the Broncos/Chiefs game to be a great one. Same with the Cowboys, I'm not going to jump ship, but I'll tune into their games more often to see a good game.
This year I think people are less jumping on the bandwagon (at least around here) than they are appreciating a very good style of football. Not to put words in anybody's mouth of course. You don't have to be a fan of the teams to have found the Broncos/Chiefs game to be a great one. Same with the Cowboys, I'm not going to jump ship, but I'll tune into their games more often to see a good game.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
You mean McNair thinks Brock is Joe Flacco.
And holy crap I hate this team. You're right man. No argument with you. But geez. Our aim at QB is Joe freaking Flacco?!? I mean I get it. The guy won a Super Bowl. But it's Joe Flacco. He's the definition of an average NFL QB that went off during one postseason and will never do it again. But he's Joe Flacco. Just call him Joe Blow Flacco...
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Didn't OB "believe" that group of QBs, Carr, Bridgewater, Garoppolo and Savage, were all pretty much the same? And didn't OB "believe" he'd rather have Hoyer than Fitzpatrick, then Mallett over Hoyer before one game was even over?
I don't care what they "believe" any more because this is almost getting to be Cleveland Browns type stuff. It's a freaking joke how they've handled the QB position in OBs entire existence here. And if he doesn't believe enough in Savage or Weeden over the shit show Brock is putting on, then they screwed the pooch with those guys too.
I believe OB doesn't have a freaking clue how to evaluate QBs.
That said, I also believe the decision to keep throwing Brock out there is not coming from OB. This has shit ton of money, you're playing the guy no matter what, written all over it.
