All Encompassing Andre Johnson Thread (Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson)

[Texian]

I was rereading these pages, and I'm still not sure how it all works.

http://overthecap.com/a-guide-to-the-nfl-salary-cap/

http://overthecap.com/thoughts-andre-johnson-lessons-learned-contract/

I can't speak for others, but in my mind, if we're talking about more guaranteed money for AJ, it has to be beyond this year.

For example, Brady's contract stipulates that his salary for next year (2015) is guaranteed as soon the new league year starts in March of 2015.
He doesn't have to worry about getting himself hurt during the off-season, etc.

No matter what, I think we are just speculating at this point about what's been going on.

I'm not sure about trading AJ this year.
What is it that we can get in a trade.
Will that player and a saving of $2.6M be enough to compensate for his loss this year?

What happens if the Texans hold their ground and AJ chooses to retire?
What happens to the dead money?

This is purely a hypothetical and role playing by you and me to help illustrate how restructuring a contract works for the player and the team. You're Andre Johnson and I am Rick Smith (see how nice I am). Here we go:

The deadline (usually a Wed.) for the 53 man roster/salary cap is 4PM the day before the first regular season game is played (usually a Thurs). A few days before the deadline, me, Rick Smith comes to you, Andre Johnson and I say,

Rick Smith - "Andre I need for you restructure your contract to help us with the 53 man roster, meet our financial obligations and comply with the salary by 4PM on Wed. Understand that if you're on the 53 man roster at 4PM Wed. your $10 mil 2014 salary is fully GTD. We wouldn't do this today, write you a $7 million check, if we didn't think you were going to be with us on Thursday. Therefore in order for us to do this we want to convert $7 million of 2014 salary to a signing bonus. We're prepared to write you a check today for $7 million. Now when we do this your weekly checks for the next 17 weeks, the $588,235.29 ($10,000,000/17) will change to $176,470.58 ($3,000,000/17) to reflect that we've already paid you $7 million.. Remember when you add your converted $7 million signing bonus and the $3 million salary divided by 17 weeks you're still getting your $10 million for 2014."

"By converting $7 million of your salary to a signing bonus, it allows the Texans to spend $7 million more over the salary cap this year to help us meet all of our financial obligations. We certainly appreciate you helping the team in this way."

Andre Johnson: - "Why do you get to spend $7 million over the salary cap and will I have to pay any money back?"

Rick Smith: - " No, you don't have to pay any money back, your $10 million is fully GTD for 2014 whether you play or not. It does not effect your contract in any way in 2015 or 2016. That remains the same."

"The rules of the NFL allow teams to do this, restructure contracts to help them comply with the salary cap. Basically how it works Andre, is the NFL allowed us to borrow $3.5 million from our 2015 salary cap and $3.5 mil from our 2016 cap in order for us to have enough money to start the 2014 season. Next year if the salary cap is $135 million per team, we, the Texans will only have $131.5 million salary cap to start the 2015 new year in order to pay back the money we spent over the salary cap in 2014." The same procedure will apply in 2016. Does that make sense?"

Andre Johnson: - "Yes, Yes it does. Now where is my $7 million check?

Does this help?

If AJ retires the Texans are responsible for all prepaid bonuses that haven't been accounted for, ie: dead money in 2014, that amount is : $11,964,166.00

This is the way it actually works, if AJ's 2015 salary cap allocation is $16,144,583 and his 2016 salary cap allocation is $14,675,000, before any restructuring in 2014, and let's say AJ restructured $7 million of his 2014 salary, his NEW 2015 salary cap allocation would be $19,644,583 and his NEW 2016 salary cap allocation would become $18,175,000.

 

[76Texan]

This is purely a hypothetical and role playing by you and me to help illustrate how restructuring a contract works for the player and the team. You're Andre Johnson and I am Rick Smith (see how nice I am). Here we go:

The deadline (usually a Wed.) for the 53 man roster/salary cap is 4PM the day before the first regular season game is played (usually a Thurs). A few days before the deadline, me, Rick Smith comes to you, Andre Johnson and I say,

Rick Smith - "Andre I need for you restructure your contract to help us with the 53 man roster, meet our financial obligations and comply with the salary by 4PM on Wed. Understand that if you're on the 53 man roster at 4PM Wed. your $10 mil 2014 salary is fully GTD. We wouldn't do this today, write you a $7 million check, if we didn't think you were going to be with us on Thursday. Therefore in order for us to do this we want to convert $7 million of 2014 salary to a signing bonus. We're prepared to write you a check today for $7 million. Now when we do this your weekly checks for the next 17 weeks, the $588,235.29 ($10,000,000/17) will change to $176,470.58 ($3,000,000/17) to reflect that we've already paid you $7 million.. Remember when you add your converted $7 million signing bonus and the $3 million salary divided by 17 weeks you're still getting your $10 million for 2014."

"By converting $7 million of your salary to a signing bonus, it allows the Texans to spend $7 million more over the salary cap this year to help us meet all of our financial obligations. We certainly appreciate you helping the team in this way."

Andre Johnson: - "Why do you get to spend $7 million over the salary cap and will I have to pay any money back?"

Rick Smith: - " No, you don't have to pay any money back, your $10 million is fully GTD for 2014 whether you play or not. It does not effect your contract in any way in 2015 or 2016. That remains the same."

"The rules of the NFL allow teams to do this, restructure contracts to help them comply with the salary cap. Basically how it works Andre, is the NFL allowed us to borrow $3.5 million from our 2015 salary cap and $3.5 mil from our 2016 cap in order for us to have enough money to start the 2014 season. Next year if the salary cap is $135 million per team, we, the Texans will only have $131.5 million salary cap to start the 2015 new year in order to pay back the money we spent over the salary cap in 2014." The same procedure will apply in 2016. Does that make sense?"

Andre Johnson: - "Yes, Yes it does. Now where is my $7 million check?

Does this help?

If AJ retires the Texans are responsible for all prepaid bonuses that haven't been accounted for, ie: dead money in 2014, that amount is : $11,964,166.00

The part about AJ's retiring, I can see.
It was my thought all along.

The part about the $7M; however, can be confusing (if I read another poster correctly.)
Are we talking about giving Andre $7M in restructuring bonus on the first game day on top of the base salary of $10M this year?

 

[Texian]

The part about AJ's retiring, I can see.
It was my thought all along.

The part about the $7M; however, can be confusing (if I read another poster correctly.)
Are we talking about giving Andre $7M in restructuring bonus on the first game day on top of the base salary of $10M this year?

No, I added to my post, please read again. If Andre gets $7 mil up front his 17 weekly checks will be for $3 mil/17 weeks instead of $10 mil/17 weeks.

 

[76Texan]

No, I added to my post, please read again. If Andre gets $7 mil up front his 17 weekly checks will be for $3 mil/17 weeks instead of $10 mil/17 weeks.

OK; I got that, actually.

I'm still wondering what the real hold-up is all about though.

Do the Texans ask for a pay cut?
Does AJ wants some money to be guaranteed similar to the "example" here (or a little more?)
Or does AJ want a raise?

 

[Texian]

OK; I got that, actually.

I'm still wondering what the real hold-up is all about though.

Do the Texans ask for a pay cut?
Does AJ wants some money to be guaranteed similar to the "example" here (or a little more?)
Or does AJ want a raise?

IMHO I think AJ is true to his word, he doesn't want to start over with a new coach, with a band aid QB on a bad team. I think he truly wants to go out, end his career, playing for a team that's competing for a championship.

When you say restructure, people confuse that with paying more or less money. What it actually means is just REARRANGING (restructure) the contract on how the SAME money is paid. The NFL allows teams to convert part of the salary to a signing bonus. Like all other bonuses that amount can spread over the future years of the contract but the amount of the salary/contract stays the same. What is also confusing is contracts can be restructured to allow teams to spend more than the salary cap limit. People don't seem to be able to grasp that idea. For example if the salary cap limit is $130 mil and a team converts $10 million worth of salaries to signing bonuses that will allow them to spend up to $140 million, $10 million over the cap. Many fans don't grasp or understand this. It helps to think of the salary cap as a bank account and not players salaries. If you need an extra $10 mil pay all your bills in 2014, you have to borrow from 2015 and 2016 salary cap bank. The players aren't getting any extra money but teams are being penalized in future years salary caps. That's the penalty for spending more than the cap permits. That's the damning part and what leads to living in salary cap hell.

 

[dalemurphy]

This is purely a hypothetical and role playing by you and me to help illustrate how restructuring a contract works for the player and the team. You're Andre Johnson and I am Rick Smith (see how nice I am). Here we go:

The deadline (usually a Wed.) for the 53 man roster/salary cap is 4PM the day before the first regular season game is played (usually a Thurs). A few days before the deadline, me, Rick Smith comes to you, Andre Johnson and I say,

Rick Smith - "Andre I need for you restructure your contract to help us with the 53 man roster, meet our financial obligations and comply with the salary by 4PM on Wed. Understand that if you're on the 53 man roster at 4PM Wed. your $10 mil 2014 salary is fully GTD. We wouldn't do this today, write you a $7 million check, if we didn't think you were going to be with us on Thursday. Therefore in order for us to do this we want to convert $7 million of 2014 salary to a signing bonus. We're prepared to write you a check today for $7 million. Now when we do this your weekly checks for the next 17 weeks, the $588,235.29 ($10,000,000/17) will change to $176,470.58 ($3,000,000/17) to reflect that we've already paid you $7 million.. Remember when you add your converted $7 million signing bonus and the $3 million salary divided by 17 weeks you're still getting your $10 million for 2014."

"By converting $7 million of your salary to a signing bonus, it allows the Texans to spend $7 million more over the salary cap this year to help us meet all of our financial obligations. We certainly appreciate you helping the team in this way."

Andre Johnson: - "Why do you get to spend $7 million over the salary cap and will I have to pay any money back?"

Rick Smith: - " No, you don't have to pay any money back, your $10 million is fully GTD for 2014 whether you play or not. It does not effect your contract in any way in 2015 or 2016. That remains the same."

"The rules of the NFL allow teams to do this, restructure contracts to help them comply with the salary cap. Basically how it works Andre, is the NFL allowed us to borrow $3.5 million from our 2015 salary cap and $3.5 mil from our 2016 cap in order for us to have enough money to start the 2014 season. Next year if the salary cap is $135 million per team, we, the Texans will only have $131.5 million salary cap to start the 2015 new year in order to pay back the money we spent over the salary cap in 2014." The same procedure will apply in 2016. Does that make sense?"

Andre Johnson: - "Yes, Yes it does. Now where is my $7 million check?

Does this help?

If AJ retires the Texans are responsible for all prepaid bonuses that haven't been accounted for, ie: dead money in 2014, that amount is : $11,964,166.00

The is the way it actually works, if AJ's 2015 salary cap allocation is $16,144,583 and his 2016 salary cap allocation is $14,675,000, before any restructuring in 2014, and let's say AJ restructured $7 million of his 2014 salary, his NEW 2015 salary cap allocation would be $19,644,583 and his NEW 2016 salary cap allocation would become $18,175,000.

The Texans do not need more room under this year's cap. They are roughly $9 million under the cap right now without anywhere to spend it. What you are suggesting would hurt the Texans. The only restructure the Texans should do is to front end this year's salary more (their are rules limiting it but they could get a couple million forward to this year's salary at least)... That way, if they keep him next season, they have reduced his cap hit for 2015 and 2016. Also, they have reduced the cap hit if he is traded or cut.

 

[Texian]

The Texans do not need more room under this year's cap. They are roughly $9 million under the cap right now without anywhere to spend it. What you are suggesting would hurt the Texans. The only restructure the Texans should do is to front end this year's salary more (their are rules limiting it but they could get a couple million forward to this year's salary at least)... That way, if they keep him next season, they have reduced his cap hit for 2015 and 2016. Also, they have reduced the cap hit if he is traded or cut.

You may be right, let's hope so. A couple of things about that $9 million under the cap. They still have to allocate Approx. $5 million to cover LTBEs, IR replacements and the practice squad. In addition when squads are expanded to the 53 man roster they will have 2 additional salaries to account for. If they don't sign any moderately expensive players, re-sign any current players and remain fiscally prudent, it's possible the Texans may not have to restructure any contracts this year. Your explanation of Andre's salary/situation doesn't make much sense. The only way to reduce Andre's future salary cap hits is by extending the number of years of his contract past 2016 without paying much more than he's making now.

 

[playa465]

No, I added to my post, please read again. If Andre gets $7 mil up front his 17 weekly checks will be for $3 mil/17 weeks instead of $10 mil/17 weeks.

I see what you're trying to explain but my question would be (if I was AJ in your scenario):

How would this benefit me? Sure I get $7M today, but as you said my 2014 salary is GTD b/c surely you're not going to cut me. $10M is $10M not matter how your disburse it.

 

[dalemurphy]

You may be right, let's hope so. A couple of things about that $9 million under the cap. They still have to allocate Approx. $5 million to cover LTBEs, IR replacements and the practice squad. In addition when squads are expanded to the 53 man roster they will have 2 additional salaries to account for. If they don't sign any moderately expensive players, re-sign any current players and remain fiscally prudent, it's possible the Texans may not have to restructure any contracts this year. Your explanation of Andre's salary/situation doesn't make much sense. The only way to reduce Andre's future salary cap hits is by extending the number of years of his contract past 2016 without paying much more than he's making now.

1. No matter what, only the top 51 salaries count against the salary cap.

2. If $2million was moved from AJ's 2015 salary to his 2014 salary, then his 2014 cap hit would increase by $2million and his 2015 cap hit would decrease by $2 million... Your suggestion of increasing the signing bonus would create a larger balloon cap hit in 2015 if he were to get traded or cut. It would also not decrease the cap hit in 2015 or 2016 if he remained on the roster... He would get his money sooner but it would be evenly distributed on the cap.

 

[Texian]

1. No matter what, only the top 51 salaries count against the salary cap.

2. If $2million was moved from AJ's 2015 salary to his 2014 salary, then his 2014 cap hit would increase by $2million and his 2015 cap hit would decrease by $2 million... Your suggestion of increasing the signing bonus would create a larger balloon cap hit in 2015 if he were to get traded or cut. It would also not decrease the cap hit in 2015 or 2016 if he remained on the roster... He would get his money sooner but it would be evenly distributed on the cap.

1. Incorrect, rosters are expanded to 53 man roster 24 hours before the first regular season game and are part of the salary cap. Read the CBA.

2. It is as I explained it in post #1367.

 

[dalemurphy]

1. Incorrect, rosters are expanded to 53 man roster 24 hours before the first regular season game and are part of the salary cap. Read the CBA.

2. It is as I explained it in post #1367.

You are simply wrong. Though a roster is 53 + IR players, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. Nothing from Overthecap.com will say anything different... Though, to be clear, dead money also counts against the cap, in addition to the 51 salaries. So, in November, a team with 53 on the roster and 10 on IR is paying the salaries of 63... However, the lowest 12 salaries count $0 against the cap, whether they are on IR, on the bench, or starting.

 

[ObsiWan]

Let's consider the makeup of the best NFL football teams... Which of these teams were dependent on elite, high 1st round WRs?

Seattle - no
San Fran - no
New England -no
Green Bay - no
Denver - D.Thomas

How about the last 7 Superbowl winners?:
Seattle
Baltimore
NYGiants
Green Bay
New Orleans
Pittsburgh
NYGiants

** none of those teams relied on a high first round pick at WR nor an elite free agent WR to win their championship. As a matter of a fact, those teams have a history of letting their top WRs walk and plugging in mid round picks to take over:

Example:
Green Bay- let guys like Javon Walker and Greg Jennings go in their prime- used guys like James Jones and Randal Cobb to replace them (mid round and unproven at the time)

New Orleans- Wow! Their only stud WR they drafted (Robert Meachem), they let him go as soon as they could, relying on journeymen and a 7th rounder: Colston.

Pittsburgh- look at their history over the last decade of amazing success. It's almost like they are determined to prove WRs aren't important- letting the following guys walk in their prime: Burress, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace go... They only WR they relied on for more than 3-4 years was a mid round pick without any of the measurables to go in round one: Hines Ward.


New England- Though Randy Moss certainly certainly made a huge impact on the offense, he was not on any of their 3 Superbowl winning teams... and, they dumped him quickly. Meanwhile, their Superbowl winning teams featured WRs like Troy Brown, Deion Branch, etc...

_ Also, don't forget that the Texans' best team/season was 2011- Essentially, KWalter was our #1 (AJ missed most of the season with injury)... Meanwhile, the worst season under Kubiak was last year- one of AJ's best seasons and certainly the most talented duo of WRs in the Texans short history.

Do we have a QB of the same caliber of any of those teams? You need an elite caliber QB and a top notch head coach to make do without a top end WR.

Is that who you think Fitzpatrick is, an elite caliber QB? Do you believe O'Brien is a top notch head coach?

Oh and the receiving corps those teams had consisted of at least one deep threat and/or one or two guys that could break tackles and take something short and/or quick to the house for six. Without AJ, do we know we have that?

 

[dalemurphy]

Do we have a QB of the same caliber of any of those teams? You need an elite caliber QB and a top notch head coach to make do without a top end WR.

Is that who you think Fitzpatrick is, an elite caliber QB? Do you believe O'Brien is a top notch head coach?

Oh and the receiving corps those teams had consisted of at least one deep threat and/or one or two guys that could break tackles and take something short and/or quick to the house for six. Without AJ, do we know we have that?

I am not against improving the QBs. I see no evidence to support your inference that an elite WR can bridge the gap to a championship for teams with problems at QB. The Texans last year would serve my point, I think.

Posey is a deep threat... Other WRs that can be signed for moderate $ in free agency can be deep threats. Wrs drafted in rounds 2-4 next year can be deep threats.... I was clearly arguing against the idea that the Texans failed by not drafting a WR with a high 1st round pick this year to eventually replace AJ.

 

[ObsiWan]

I am not against improving the QBs. I see no evidence to support your inference that an elite WR can bridge the gap to a championship for teams with problems at QB. The Texans last year would serve my point, I think.

Posey is a deep threat... Other WRs that can be signed for moderate $ in free agency can be deep threats. Wrs drafted in rounds 2-4 next year can be deep threats.... I was clearly arguing against the idea that the Texans failed by not drafting a WR with a high 1st round pick this year to eventually replace AJ.

I thought Posey and Hopkins were drafted in the hopes that one (both?) would eventually be the A.J. replacement unit...?
no??

 

[dalemurphy]

I think a lot of fans are suffering from one of two things (or both):

1. A logical fallacy that there is always a player deserving of a high pick at a position of need or significance... And, fans can always find a draft guru or mock draft to support that theory.

2.incredible arrogance that they actually know with certainty exactly the right pick to be made.

 

[dalemurphy]

I thought Posey and Hopkins were drafted in the hopes that one (both?) would eventually be the A.J. replacement unit...?
no??

Again, I am responding to an assertion that those guys can not replace AJ and that someone drafted very high is the only answer ... And that a player at WR of AJ's ability is necessary for success.... Read what I quoted from Texian.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I think a lot of fans are suffering from one of two things (or both):

1. A logical fallacy that there is always a player deserving of a high pick at a position of need or significance... And, fans can always find a draft guru or mock draft to support that theory.

2.incredible arrogance that they actually know with certainty exactly the right pick to be made.

I think we have posters that are full of # 2 .

 

[ObsiWan]

I think a lot of fans are suffering from one of two things (or both):

1. A logical fallacy that there is always a player deserving of a high pick at a position of need or significance... And, fans can always find a draft guru or mock draft to support that theory.

2.incredible arrogance that they actually know with certainty exactly the right pick to be made.

I'm not, and have never claimed to be, a draftnik. I think that mocks are just opinions from guys with websites (although some of who do extensive homework) and places to start conversations about who to draft.

But they aren't "gospel" or anything like it. Most of the opinions I see from our own draftniks make more sense than some of the ones in the websphere because our folks pay closer attention to the Texans' needs than the "national brands".

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I am not against improving the QBs. I see no evidence to support your inference that an elite WR can bridge the gap to a championship for teams with problems at QB. The Texans last year would serve my point, I think.

Posey is a deep threat... Other WRs that can be signed for moderate $ in free agency can be deep threats. Wrs drafted in rounds 2-4 next year can be deep threats.... I was clearly arguing against the idea that the Texans failed by not drafting a WR with a high 1st round pick this year to eventually replace AJ.

Just a comment. Posey can run good routes similar to Andre but he has never been great after the catch and has never been known as a great deep threat. Since his Achilles, he has lost explosion and certainly hasn't demonstrated any evidence that he would be a deep threat. If Posey sticks, I see his value mostly as a slot.

 

[dalemurphy]

Just a comment. Posey can run good routes similar to Andre but he has never been great after the catch and has never been known as a great deep threat. Since his Achilles, he has lost explosion and certainly hasn't demonstrated any evidence that he would be a deep threat. If Posey sticks, I see his value mostly as a slot.

I am excited about him in the slot this year.. Still, I think he has shown deep speed and break away abilities since he returned. It is a small sample size, but I am not disillusioned by the future prospects of Posey and Hopkins as our starting WRs.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm not, and have never claimed to be, a draftnik. I think that mocks are just opinions from guys with websites (although some of who do extensive homework) and places to start conversations about who to draft.

But they aren't "gospel" or anything like it. Most of the opinions I see from our own draftniks make more sense than some of the ones in the websphere because our folks pay closer attention to the Texans' needs than the "national brands".

Yep, draftniks put in a lot of time studying different prospects and because of this have strong opinions. But they're just well informed opinions.

DM sells these draftniks short. I would take several draftniks opinions over say many of Casserly's drafts. The 2013 draft is another example of the front office not putting in the time to find out how injured Williams was or the fact that LSU S&C coach put the word out that Montgomery was a turd. Draftniks knew these things but somehow the Texans front office didn't. Even though the Texans front office has infinitely more resources.

In short I believe DM sells the draft community on this MB short. (Not really surprising)

 

[steelbtexan]

I am excited about him in the slot this year.. Still, I think he has shown deep speed and break away abilities since he returned. It is a small sample size, but I am not disillusioned by the future prospects of Posey and Hopkins as our starting WRs.

Hopefully Bonner becomes the slot guy and produces so that the 2013 draft will look a little better.

 

[Texian]

I see what you're trying to explain but my question would be (if I was AJ in your scenario):

How would this benefit me? Sure I get $7M today, but as you said my 2014 salary is GTD b/c surely you're not going to cut me. $10M is $10M not matter how your disburse it.

If you're on the roster day 1 of reg season your salary is GTD. You're right, It doesn't really benefit AJ much at all, he's doing it for the team. 10 is 10, exactly. The only slight benefit is an earlier return on investment if $ invested and less taxes paid in states where games are played where state income taxes are paid. Yes if you play in California, California states taxes are withheld from that weeks paycheck.

 

[Troy Chapman]

You are simply wrong. Though a roster is 53 + IR players, only the top 51 salaries count against the cap. Nothing from Overthecap.com will say anything different... Though, to be clear, dead money also counts against the cap, in addition to the 51 salaries. So, in November, a team with 53 on the roster and 10 on IR is paying the salaries of 63... However, the lowest 12 salaries count $0 against the cap, whether they are on IR, on the bench, or starting.

This is just incorrect. Top 51 salaries count towards the cap today, and through camp and preseason.

Once the final cuts are made after the last preseason game, the teams then move to the 53 man roster. On Tuesday before the first game of the regular season, the teams must be under the salary cap which includes all 53 players on the active roster, players on IR, players on practice squad, dead money, NFI players (Quess), and other injuries grievances.

 

[76Texan]

This is just incorrect. Top 51 salaries count towards the cap today, and through camp and preseason.

Once the final cuts are made after the last preseason game, the teams then move to the 53 man roster. On Tuesday before the first game of the regular season, the teams must be under the salary cap which includes all 53 players on the active roster, players on IR, players on practice squad, dead money, NFI players (Quess), and other injuries grievances.

Yeah, that's what I thought.
I read it a few hours ago on a website that has all the pertinent dates on the NFL calendar, but didn't save the URL.
I hate the business side of football.

 

[Marshall]

I don't think you understand how it works, AJ gets $10 mil in 2014 regardless of whether he restructures or not.

He only gets 10M if he plays. It's not guaranteed. The dead money is strictly signing bonus money which does not include his base salaries in 2014, 2015 or 2016.

 

[scourge]

I think we have posters that are full of # 2 .

I see what you did there...

 

[Texian]

He only gets 10M if he plays. It's not guaranteed. The dead money is strictly signing bonus money which does not include his base salaries in 2014, 2015 or 2016.

I think you misunderstood, AJ gets $10 million whether he restructures or not. It's just a matter of how he gets paid. As to your comments, if AJ is on the 53 man roster the first day of the regular season his salary is GTD. UNLESS he holds out and the Texans put him on the NFI List (non football injury) in which case he will not get paid for games that he is a holds out. I think this is what you were referring to. This would apply to all players whether their $ were GTD or not, if you hold out, you don't get paid.

 

[Texian]

This is just incorrect. Top 51 salaries count towards the cap today, and through camp and preseason.

Once the final cuts are made after the last preseason game, the teams then move to the 53 man roster. On Tuesday before the first game of the regular season, the teams must be under the salary cap which includes all 53 players on the active roster, players on IR, players on practice squad, dead money, NFI players (Quess), and other injuries grievances.

Exactly and LTBEs (I'm not sure NFI count against the salary cap if players are not paid a salary).

 

[Marshall]

For me, Fitz = the Texans decide to "somewhat give up" on this season, it's another story.

But you wanted QB 1st second third and fourth. In fact. no other position is important. We'll see.

 

[Texian]

But you wanted QB 1st second third and fourth. In fact. no other position is important. We'll see.

huh? sorry not following you.( or are you just trying to be snarky?)

 

[Troy Chapman]

Exactly and LTBEs (I'm not sure NFI count against the salary cap if players are not paid a salary).

NFI will count in our case with Quessenberry, Houston will pay his salary.

 

[Troy Chapman]

I think you misunderstood, AJ gets $10 million whether he restructures or not. It's just a matter of how he gets paid. As to your comments, if AJ is on the 53 man roster the first day of the regular season his salary is GTD. UNLESS he holds out and the Texans put him on the NFI List (non football injury) in which case he will not get paid for games that he is a holds out. I think this is what you were referring to. This would apply to all players whether their $ were GTD or not, if you hold out, you don't get paid.

I didn't think AJ's salary in 2014 was guaranteed in any way, not even for injury. I have sent out a few messages to some contract guys to see what they say.

I don't think his salary is guaranteed in the manner you are saying but I could be wrong. I'm in the opinion that AJ wants more guaranteed money and would report to duty quickly if Rick restructured his deal to give him more guaranteed money.

 

[dalemurphy]

This is just incorrect. Top 51 salaries count towards the cap today, and through camp and preseason.

Once the final cuts are made after the last preseason game, the teams then move to the 53 man roster. On Tuesday before the first game of the regular season, the teams must be under the salary cap which includes all 53 players on the active roster, players on IR, players on practice squad, dead money, NFI players (Quess), and other injuries grievances.

Thank you for the correction. That is correct.

Still, though, adding your two lowest salaried players does not move the cap number very much... But, a team could certainly have a few issues if they are right against the cap and then have a slew of injuries. The Texans, though, are not in that situation and have plenty of room to manage this year's cap and have a few million to roll over into next year's cap (if the CBA allows rollover cap space in 2015. I'm not sure when that rule ends)

 

[Texian]

I didn't think AJ's salary in 2014 was guaranteed in any way, not even for injury. I have sent out a few messages to some contract guys to see what they say.

I don't think his salary is guaranteed in the manner you are saying but I could be wrong. I'm in the opinion that AJ wants more guaranteed money and would report to duty quickly if Rick restructured his deal to give him more guaranteed money.

I might be wrong, I was under the impression if AJ was on 53 man roster the first day of the regular season his $10 million for 2014 was GTD at that point. I am only guessing but would think his salary would be GTD if he went on IR for a football related injury? Might be wrong. If he is released or traded prior to day 1, no I don't think the $ are GTD. I guess I wasn't clear in my explanation. Sorry about that. Most of my discussion has been focused on restructuring, assuming AJ was on active 53 man roster. Let me know it that's not correct. On another note, nice to have a conversation without having to do snarky.

 

[Troy Chapman]

I might be wrong, I was under the impression if AJ was on 53 man roster the first day of the regular season his $10 million for 2014 was GTD at that point. I am only guessing but would think his salary would be GTD if he went on IR for a football related injury? Might be wrong. If he is released or traded prior to day 1, no I don't think the $ are GTD. I guess I wasn't clear in my explanation. Sorry about that. Let me know it that's not correct. On another note, nice to have a conversation without having to do snarky.

Confirmed with my sources, his salary is indeed guaranteed if he is on the roster come day 1 of the regular season.

I know this sounds a little "out there" but I almost feel like AJ wants more guaranteed money to make himself un-tradeable or un-cutable for 2014 & 2015. Make his dead money outweigh his cap number. It's a way out of left field thought.... I think he knows that 2014 could easily be his last season with Houston and could be a cap casualty for the 2015 offseason. He would have to replicate his 2012 & 2013 numbers in 2014 to get a decent deal somewhere. But looking at his QB situation and the new offensive system that allows other players to get involved...he knows he could easily have a low production year. Kubiak's system assisted AJ in his big yards each year (not taking away from his talent and ability).

So say he has a 75-800-5 line for 2014...and is released. Going into 2015 he will be coming up on 34 years of age and looking at a much smaller contract elsewhere. I think he is trying to make sure he is on the Texans roster for 2014 & 2015. Has nothing to do with re-building.

 

[Texian]

I thought Posey and Hopkins were drafted in the hopes that one (both?) would eventually be the A.J. replacement unit...?
no??

IIRC Posey was drafted to be the #2 Z WR. When Posey went down w/ Achilles, only 6 receptions and never living up to his expectations, Hopkins was drafted to play Robin (#2 WR = Z) to Andre's Batman (#1 WR = X). Hopkins has ability to become the X but then again you have another hole at the Z and Y (slot WR).

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

A simple organized explanation of how and when players count against the Cap

Do all player count against their team’s Salary Cap?

Yes, once the season has started, all players – whether on the 53-man roster, Injured Reserve (IR), Physically Unable to Perform (PUP) or the Practice Squad (PS) – count against the team’s Salary Cap. The only players that do not count against the Salary Cap are players who are on the Non-Football Injury (NFI) List because, pursuant to the NFI rules, those players are not paid their base salary or any bonuses they may be due.

So, how is the Salary Cap calculated during the offseason, when team rosters can total up to a maximum of 90 players?

Obviously, it would be impossible for teams to fit all 90 players under the Salary Cap, so the CBA contains provisions that limit the Salary Cap calculation to the highest 51 Salary Cap numbers on the team and all signing (and option) bonus pro-rations and all rosters bonuses. This rule – the Rule of 51 – is in effect from the beginning of the league year in March until the first game of the regular season.

The impact of the Rule of 51 is felt when a teams signs a new player and the former 51st player drops off the team’s Rule of 51 Cap number. For example, this means that if the new player has a Cap number of $1M, his signing doesn’t actually reduce the team’s Cap by $1M, but by the net of the $1M less the base salary of the former 51st player. Any bonus proration for that former 51st player remains.

Do unsigned Free Agents count against the Salary Cap?

There are several types of Free Agents and whether they count or not depends on what category they fall into.

Unrestricted Free Agents (UFAs) – players whose contracts have expired – and players who become Free Agents by virtue of being released by the team do not count against the team’s Salary Cap.

Restricted Free Agents (RFAs) – players who have less than 4 years of accrued service time, who have received a RFA contract tender from their team – do count against the Salary Cap, at the amount of the RFA tender.

Exclusive Rights Free Agents (ERFAs) – players with less than 4 years of accrued service time, who have received a ERFA contract tender from their team – also count against the Salary Cap, again, at the amount of their ERFA tender.

Franchise or Transition Tag – any player who receives the Franchise or Transition Tag (other than the Exclusive Franchise Tag) is still technically a Free Agent, but is restricted by the Tag. A player under the Tag does count against the Salary Cap, at the amount of the Franchise or Transition Tag tender amount.

Do unsigned Draft picks count against the Salary Cap?

Yes, once drafted, draft picks are assigned a tender equal to the rookie minimum salary for that year. For 2014 that amount is $420K. That tender amount is replaced by the player’s actual Salary Cap number once the draft pick signs his rookie contract.

link

 

[76Texan]

I didn't think AJ's salary in 2014 was guaranteed in any way, not even for injury. I have sent out a few messages to some contract guys to see what they say.

I don't think his salary is guaranteed in the manner you are saying but I could be wrong. I'm in the opinion that AJ wants more guaranteed money and would report to duty quickly if Rick restructured his deal to give him more guaranteed money.

This is the tricky part where I think ... that without looking at the specific contract, we can't even begin to speculate what this is all about.

 

[badboy]

What is confusing about AJ's contract is the way different sources identify it. IMO, I do not think he has been paid all of his guarantee yet and is owed 2014 unless he retires. In 2010 he signed a deal and then extended two more and received another $13m guaranteed. From Spotrac


$48 million guaranteed
Signing Bonus: $2.8 million
2011 Restructure Bonus: $7.5 million
2012 Restructure Bonus: $5.2 million
2012 Option Bonus: $1 million
2013-16 Roster Bonus $1 million (paid Week 1, must participate in offseason workouts)
2013 Restructure: $5.5 million/ 4 years
Incentives: $10 million

 

[76Texan]

Confirmed with my sources, his salary is indeed guaranteed if he is on the roster come day 1 of the regular season.

I know this sounds a little "out there" but I almost feel like AJ wants more guaranteed money to make himself un-tradeable or un-cutable for 2014 & 2015. Make his dead money outweigh his cap number. It's a way out of left field thought.... I think he knows that 2014 could easily be his last season with Houston and could be a cap casualty for the 2015 offseason. He would have to replicate his 2012 & 2013 numbers in 2014 to get a decent deal somewhere. But looking at his QB situation and the new offensive system that allows other players to get involved...he knows he could easily have a low production year. Kubiak's system assisted AJ in his big yards each year (not taking away from his talent and ability).

So say he has a 75-800-5 line for 2014...and is released. Going into 2015 he will be coming up on 34 years of age and looking at a much smaller contract elsewhere. I think he is trying to make sure he is on the Texans roster for 2014 & 2015. Has nothing to do with re-building.

This is also my thinking.

Yes, the Texans did pay some guaranteed money early on, but to me, they got a bit too much of a team - friendly deal.

If I was AJ, even though I dislike the business side of football, I would have to ask for more, as the market indicated.

What is a more equitable way to protect both the team and one of the faces of your franchise?

How long term is your long term vision.
Whether the organization wants to have AJ retire "in good term" with a fair deal for both sides as led - to believe some time ago?

Obviously, as a fan, I don't know what's going on behind closed walls.

I'm a little intriguing about the dealings.
I still hate the business side of football, no matter what.

I'm sure it ain't easy.

 

[Vinnie]

This has to be the most epic offseason thread ever. We are literally making stuff up now because there is nothing else.

 

[paycheck71]

I think a lot of fans are suffering from one of two things (or both):

1. A logical fallacy that there is always a player deserving of a high pick at a position of need or significance... And, fans can always find a draft guru or mock draft to support that theory.

2.incredible arrogance that they actually know with certainty exactly the right pick to be made.

MSR

 

[sandman]

You may not be aware that AJ is now at the same age as Randy Moss, Ocho Cinco and Terrell Owens when their skills began a NOTICEABLE decline. You may also not be aware that I think planning for 2016 and 2017 is just as important as planning for 2014. And you may also not be aware that it usually takes WR a year or two to reach their full potential in the NFL.

And if you car has dings and a bumper falling off, it's time to get a new car.

Just doing a quick look at some stats...

TO averaged 80 receptions, 1200 yards and 12 TD's for his three seasons between ages 33-35. Not exactly a decline.

And since we are cherry-picking receivers, and you went the route of the prima donna WR's who for the most part have a candle that burns bright but not long. Both Moss and Ocho Cinco were effectively out of the league at age 33. Moss was averaging 75/1100 at age 31-32 while Ocho Cinco hadn't caught over 75 balls since he was 29. That's a huge difference from the stats that AJ put up the last two years.

So let's look at a different sample size, namely players who actually played beyond age 33:

Jerry Rice - Set career highs in receptions and yards at age 33. Was averaging 85 receptions and 1200 yards at ages 39 and 40.

Tony Gonzales - as a TE has averaged 80/900 in the five years since age 33.

Marvin Harrison - averaged 90/1250 and 12 TD's at ages 33-34.

Chris Carter - averaged 93/1250 and 11 TD's at ages 34-35.

Tim Brown - averaged 85/1100 at ages 33-36

Including TO, I just listed the top 6 all-time NFL receivers (for receptions). If AJ has 98 receptions this year, these are the only receivers in the history of the game that will be in front of him.

Nothing guarantees that the wheels won't fall off of AJ's wagon, but I prefer to compare his future projections to his peers.

And finally, as previously noted, they drafted Hopkins last year in the first round. Do you know for certain that he was drafted with the only thought of being the #2 to AJ? If he can be the #1 as you have suggested in later posts, then what is the issue? That the team will have a potential future gaping hole at #2? How far down the depth chart do we want to complain about not having every future need addressed today?

 

[Marshall]

I think you misunderstood, AJ gets $10 million whether he restructures or not. It's just a matter of how he gets paid. As to your comments, if AJ is on the 53 man roster the first day of the regular season his salary is GTD. UNLESS he holds out and the Texans put him on the NFI List (non football injury) in which case he will not get paid for games that he is a holds out. I think this is what you were referring to. This would apply to all players whether their $ were GTD or not, if you hold out, you don't get paid.

I think we're on the same page except I do not presume any unguaranteed money will be paid. It may be likely, but if AJ retires, it won't get paid like the signing bonus which has already been paid though not yet fully accounted for in the cap. Thus I see benefit in converting ANY unguaranteed money to Guaranteed money, even if it is the same or less. You know, the bird in the hand...

 

[Marshall]

This is also my thinking.

Yes, the Texans did pay some guaranteed money early on, but to me, they got a bit too much of a team - friendly deal.

If I was AJ, even though I dislike the business side of football, I would have to ask for more, as the market indicated.

What is a more equitable way to protect both the team and one of the faces of your franchise?

How long term is your long term vision.
Whether the organization wants to have AJ retire "in good term" with a fair deal for both sides as led - to believe some time ago?

Obviously, as a fan, I don't know what's going on behind closed walls.

I'm a little intriguing about the dealings.
I still hate the business side of football, no matter what.

I'm sure it ain't easy.

Why is is fair to tear up a contract after a good season but not fair to tear it up after a lousy season? It's not about fair, it's about getting all you can and forgetting your contract which protected you when you needed it.

 

[Lucky]

Why is is fair to tear up a contract after a good season but not fair to tear it up after a lousy season? It's not about fair, it's about getting all you can and forgetting your contract which protected you when you needed it.

What are you talking about? NFL teams cut players under contract all the time, because few of them are guaranteed. That's essentially tearing up a contract after a bad (or good) season.

 

[disaacks3]

What are you talking about? NFL teams cut players under contract all the time, because few of them are guaranteed. That's essentially tearing up a contract after a bad (or good) season.

Don't be silly. This only applies to players making millions from the poor fans willing to fork over thousands (and taking food from their babies' mouths) to see them play. It doesn't apply to the always forthright and honest teams / league making billions.

 

[Troy Chapman]

This is also my thinking.

Yes, the Texans did pay some guaranteed money early on, but to me, they got a bit too much of a team - friendly deal.

If I was AJ, even though I dislike the business side of football, I would have to ask for more, as the market indicated.

What is a more equitable way to protect both the team and one of the faces of your franchise?

How long term is your long term vision.
Whether the organization wants to have AJ retire "in good term" with a fair deal for both sides as led - to believe some time ago?

Obviously, as a fan, I don't know what's going on behind closed walls.

I'm a little intriguing about the dealings.
I still hate the business side of football, no matter what.

I'm sure it ain't easy.

The Texans got a team friendly deal(s) because on the first contract after his rookie contract AJ negotiated the deal on his own without an agent. The second contract was done by his uncle, which was a below market level deal. If AJ had brought in a proper agent to negotiate the contract, things would be much better for AJ. He has only himself to blame for the way the contract is set.

 

[PapaL]

The Texans got a team friendly deal(s) because on the first contract after his rookie contract AJ negotiated the deal on his own without an agent. The second contract was done by his uncle, which was a below market level deal. If AJ had brought in a proper agent to negotiate the contract, things would be much better for AJ. He has only himself to blame for the way the contract is set.

^^This^^