In a vacuum I might agree with you but in our economic system if running a business that makes me billions, then I'm going to invest millions into the star employees that help me keep those billions coming in. That's just good business.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
All Encompassing Andre Johnson Thread (Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson)
- Thread starter 1-3
- Start date
- Status
I don't think a team should get stupid crazy with a player's cap, other than a QB unless they were in certain situations.
- That's your guy
If that guy is the face of your franchise moreso than the QB... yeah, pay him.
- You're that one player away from winning a Super Bowl
Chances are you are not, but if you've got to take that shot, take it. After the season, whether you win or not, renegotiating that contract would be the most pressing concern.
Andre's cap number is at $16M, that's beyond my "stupid crazy" figure of $13M. I'd renegotiate with him, get his cap number below $13M & show a commitment to him for the next four or five years.
The biggest problem with Andre's cap number is that we've got his replacement ready for a new contract as well. Jj Watt is the guy we're going to get stupid crazy with next, & he's not a QB.
"Luckily" we don't have that QB on our roster & we'll be able to pay two stupid crazy contracts in the meantime.
The salary cap is always changing & that stupid crazy limit I've got will continue to change as well. If I were to negotiate a new contract for someone I think will be contributing to the future of our team, I can see a $16M avg salary, but that would come with a much lower cap for the first three or four years.
Lots of guaranteed money & roster bonuses. But backended. Setting up the framework for future renegotiations.
Those years also gives us leverage. We offer Jj Watt guaranteed money today & he's losing money every day (year) he doesn't sign on the dotted line. If I'm Jj Watt, I've got to worry about getting a performance altering injury over the next four years..... an achilles, a shoulder, a hernia...
$12M over the next four years, the money he stands to lose, sounds pretty reasonable to me. $48M... Throw in an $18M salary in 2018 & a $22M salary in 2019 & I'm ready to talk about the structure of that $48M.... I want all of it guaranteed for injury. We can quibble over what portion is a signing bonus & what portion is a roster bonus, & how much is salary.
I think some of us have read way too much into what has happened so far.
So far, he's missed voluntary work outs & admitted he's questioning the decisions he's made in the past. He is thinking about how they will affect his future & right now he's not so sure he made the right decisions.
He's having a mid-life crisis at 33ish
He's been working out, we know that. He'll be in shape. Maybe a little behind the rest of the team when he gets to camp, if he gets to camp.
But right now, he's done nothing to cause us to question his loyalty, or his honor. As far as we know, he will fulfill his end of the bargain.
& if this is a play to renegotiate his contract, it's only going to help the team. $16M against the cap is way too much for a WR. This is an opportunity to knock that number down a lot, while still getting the best Andre has to offer.
Sooner or later, he's not going to produce like a number one, I know. But even if he's producing like a number two, allowing DeAndre/Posey to start producing like a number one, it still works out for the Texans.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
http://prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=306407
Tom Brady to Andre Johnson would be a beautiful thing. Might lead to another ring for that franchise. Biggest area of need on that roster and Dre gets the chance to make a deep run.
Tom Brady to Andre Johnson would be a beautiful thing. Might lead to another ring for that franchise. Biggest area of need on that roster and Dre gets the chance to make a deep run.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The question that still comes back to me over and over again is if his only reason for wondering if the Texans are where he needs to be or not........why was this not brought up at the end of last season (certainly well before the draft) and why was this not kept behind closed doors no matter what the circumstances?
It probably started off that way, until he decided it no longer served his purpose.
He's not a moron, and he's been around long enough in the league to know exactly what will take place, and what will get put into motion by making those public comments, and they were not spontaneous off-the-cuff remarks. He's laying the groundwork.
I have no idea what he told the Texans when he cleared out his locker at the end of last season, for all I know, he gave them a what for or two. & from what I understand, he let his feelings be known the first time the team got together (which was before the draft).
Why this wasn't kept behind closed doors no matter...
Well, the Texans just went through OTAs. Andre was in Houston. The reporters asked him why he wasn't at OTAs... what was he supposed to do, lie? It's not like he blurted out that he was unhappy, it was a series of questions where Andre answered honestly & thoughtfully. Until the only answer he could give was, "Well I question whether this is the right place for me."
Some of our fans took this past season pretty hard & all they had to do was watch the game. They cancelled their DirectTv Sunday Ticket & vowed never to buy another Texans T-shirt again until the Texans win the Super Bowl.
I imagine this hit Andre a little closer to home & he's not over it yet. Then we've got this, "You ain't nothing!!!" head coach coming in talking like he was here... worse of all, looks like they're going to bury his QB on the depth chart again. Took the kid three years to get his shot & because OB likes 6'5" GreekGods.... psssh.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I doubt Watt is worried about injuries as that did not keep Cush or Foster from scoring big $. I am under the impression that some long term deals are slightly less that the tag avg but I would be ok with Watt at 4/$48 but not that high on last two. Again, historically Smith has signed the players he wants to keep which is encouraging.
Best option to keep contracts reasonable is having quality depth ready to replace starter. This draft went long ways on that front & 2015 should be as good.
The amounts on the last two are the starting point for the negotiating the next contract. As a GM, I have no intentions of paying him $22M for a season. If I cut him, I've got one year left of the prorated bonus left to account for.
Think of it as a "place holder" for what his real cap number will end up being.
We'll negotiate an extension that will lower his salary for the that year & the next, but put more guaranteed money in his pocket.
If this guy is part of the core, a guy we want to retire a Texan, then this shouldn't be a problem. Just like Andre. I'm not "borrowing from future years" my plan has always been to keep this guy until the end.
Which is why I don't understand why we don't renegotiate with Andre. Get his salary cap number down, put guaranteed money in his pocket & let him retire a Texan (in about 3 to 4 years). It doesn't matter how well he can/can't play in 3 to 4 years. He can retire & the dead money will be negligible.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It would take huge offer to send AJ to New England. All below are listed after the starter.
1. QB Garoppolo: don't need to hear about Mallett. PATs like him & can keep him.
2. CB Logan Ryan
3. DT Chris Jones (former Texan)
4. SS/FS/ST Shamiel Gary http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/shamiel_gary_748353.html
5. A 4th round pick and this is not a deal breaker
badboy
Hall of Fame
Enjoy this type discussion this time of year. Your plan costs $48 m over four years. Mine costs: 2014 $2m 2015 $7 m 2016 projected tag $ 12 m 2017 franchise tag my projection $14 m = $35 or savings of $13 which could be part of a 5th year. Also of course smaller cap.
I think AJ plays if we stand firm. He has a contract and knows it. He is not ready to retire
$13M/4 years = $3.25M/yr
I don't think it's worth it. Give him his money up front, get it over with.
badboy
Hall of Fame
see your point just disagree. I lock him up for 4 years with ability to let him go annually without cost IF he is hurt or whatever. In 5th year at age 29, we can then offer him a reasonable deal and use the extra $13 million to add in. The way he plays, he will be a well worn player. Also by then we should have a replacement ready behind him to help keep negotiations real.
texansrule2014
Practice Squad
but I heard midway through the season look for Savage to start,a sports guy said that Savage can make throws that no other QB in Texans history can do.. so sounds like BIll O knows what hes doing. I say hang in there Dre,you never know.. all depends on Injuries anyways.. or depth.. depending on how you look at it/
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Sounds kind of ignorant of Texans' history which is sad since there are only 2 QBs of note. Carr had a canon. I'm tickled Savage has one as well but I'll be shocked if it is noticeably better than Carr's.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
There's a lot more to QB'ing than arm strength (see Jeff George/Jamarcus Russell), and Savage has a lot to learn & some unlearning to do. He was a 4th/5th round pick for a reason.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Not that I want to argue bro, but was Tom Brady drafted with the 199th pick for a reason? Joe Montana was selected at the end of the third round with the 82nd overall pick, is there a reason for that? Savage was the 135th pick.
There are more examples, so I am not sure it's fair to judge someone based on where they were drafted because we also know multitudes of 1st round picks have failed miserably, like our very own David Carr as just one shining example.
I don't think we are going to know until we see the guy is game time situations, but of course it's natural for people to doubt him based on where he was drafted, unless you consider other greats have been drafted in similar positions.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I've watched his every Pitt game tape. That's what I base what I've seen on.
I have high hopes for Savage, but I think he needs a redshirt year as there are some fundamental issues he needs to address. Takes time to fix even the smallest details. Took Aaron Rodgers awhile to fix his issues.
How do we know that? We don't know that Rodgers didn't sit because he had flaws to fix. He most likely sat because Brett couldn't take a hint.
I'm thinking by the second set of OTAs we're going to hear how well Case is doing & that he's emerging as the leader in that competition. He'll be named the starter well before training camp & Andre is going to show up ready to go to work.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
We read.
kingtexan
All Pro
Carr could make all the throws with excellent velocity. He just couldn't do it from his back ...
Here is a solid article about QBs and draft rounds:
NFL Draft: Round-by-Round QB Study
His conclusion: "After studying 20 drafts featuring 237 quarterbacks, I only pegged 34 (14.3 percent) players as good starters."
Drafting a QB is a crap shoot, at best. It's a numbers game regarding percentage of success as it relates to early draft rounds, but nothing about a particular round guarantees that a given QB prospect will pan out.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
It's trying to predict who is going to be a grinder with the ability to learn , while getting knocked silly from time to time and having the pressure of a city on your shoulders . This after you may have gotten a 20 million dollar signing bonus .
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I would imagine that's true about all positions. How many 1st round picks have been actually worth their 1st round pick status over the past 10 years? There are just to many busts and not enough sure things. We have no earthly ideas of what to expect from Savage. He could be anything from our savior to a 4th round bust or anything in between.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
No dre at OTA's today.
kingtexan
All Pro
Disappointing. He had been the consummate professional until now ...
While certainly true for all positions, I think some are more of a crap shoot than others.
A QB has so much to learn to get under center, before he even takes a snap. Having to read defenses pre-snap, make adjustments, move within the protection package, make reads while under pressure, actually make the throws (often threading a needle between defenders). This doesn't even get into the demands of being a leader and dealing with personalities, much less the clutch factor of having to perform at a high level during crucial situations.
Compare all that to a RB, who can almost plug and play into an offense.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I hardly think ha can learn anything from Ed Reed other than how to hide an injury and take advantage of a desperate team.
He'll get more excited as the winning season takes shape.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
You'll have to show me if he actually took a pay cut rather than simply adjust the numbers to meet cap. I sincerely doubt it ever happened. Perhaps you don't understand that getting your money NOW in the form of a signing bonus isn't taking a pay cut, even though the base salary is reduced.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Funny how you perceive AJ as underpaid while I perceive other receivers as as overpaid. Earnings below your pears is NOT a pay cut. It might be under market. But a pay cut means you are reducing a deal in place. This has not happened.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I guess your foot must taste good to you because you keep nibbling on it.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It doesn't get any more clutch than this.
I still think the replacement refs got this one right on the field. They didn't start hedging until afterwards.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I honestly think there is a reserve list for players under contract who simply fail to show up. You don't get an automatic release and I think it even calls for an additional year if you fail to make yourself available for the entire year.
Holding out is a paper threat, not a real one.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Just an FYI. You can click the "+ button next to the "quote" option and comment on as many posts as you want in one post
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You can get a lot of information from spotrac.com. For example - Andre Johnson Spotrac
AJ's deal is convoluted because it has been restructured repeatedly.
How a bonus is accounted is dictated by how it is paid. Don't think you can pay the proration off early.
Thanks for the link, I followed it but I'm no capologist and it didn't make alot of sense to me. At the top it says 20.5m guaranteed, but in small print near the bottom it says 48m guaranteed. I don't understand his dead money hit next year if his 20.5m guarantee is paid off by the end of the 2014 season. Confusing... I sure hope Rick Smith understands all this and can get us out from under as much of this as soon as possible.
Txn_in_FL
All Pro
I've already said, "pay cut/restructure, whatever". I don't have the time to deep dive into Texan contract history to figure this out. I'm on the other side of the world and keep up with what I can.
I'm over it anyway and have been over it. In the end, if he isn't happy he can take his services elsewhere. If the Texans can work a trade then so much the better. Andre to the Browns for a draft pick would work.
Then you need to make the time, scooter.
You'd seriously trade AJ right now for any old draft pick? Either put down the crack pipe and think about that or go somewhere else. That's ignorant beyond comprehension. You don't have a high enough motor or good enough character to be a Texans fan.
Txn_in_FL
All Pro
Then you need to make the time, scooter.
You'd seriously trade AJ right now for any old draft pick? Either put down the crack pipe and think about that or go somewhere else. That's ignorant beyond comprehension. You don't have a high enough motor or good enough character to be a Texans fan.
And now you're questioning my fandom?
I hope that's sarcasm.
He's paid to play. I'm not particularly happy where I am right now either, but I'm paid to work so I work. If he doesn't like it then go somewhere else.
I thought the
spelled that out. My bad. LOL
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Some of these teams should pay their fans....Wait we pay these guys to play this game
WHAT...
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
No ****, Like the browns, bengals, Raiders and i think the texans as well. That would go along way in helping me during this time of ungainful employment
.Not to mention getting denied unemployment, thank you obama.
I'd cash the check!!!!!No ****, Like the browns, bengals, Raiders and i think the texans as well. That would go along way in helping me during this time of ungainful employment
Not to mention getting denied unemployment, thank you obama.
Obama? You're racist!!!!!
EDIT: You are a **** up. I had no prob repping you. LOL
- Status