infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's a pretty ridiculous standard for any position. And looking down the list there are a bunch of HoF or close to it guys - Irvin, Rod Smith, Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Hines Ward, etc.
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All Encompassing Andre Johnson Thread (Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson)
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That's a pretty ridiculous standard for any position. And looking down the list there are a bunch of HoF or close to it guys - Irvin, Rod Smith, Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Hines Ward, etc.
Sigma
Veteran
Dude, if I said the sky is blue, just after sunset there'd be 10 people in here telling me what a jackass I am.
well... I'm not implying you are a jackass, but...
[IMGwidthsize=200]http://www.astrosurf.com/merimages/Desktop/HomePlate-desktop.jpg[/IMG]
Mostly pre salary cap era
Sorry you don't agree with my standards but my post remains the same.
HOFers mean nothing to me SB's do. BTW, McNair has been more than fair to AJ would you not agree?
The salary cap was introduced in 1994. Isaac Bruce was drafted in 1994, Rod Smith was in that class, but was not drafted. The majority of Michael Irvin's career was after 1994.
Everyone else definitely played in the salary cap era.... they were all drafted after 1994.
So unless the word "mostly" means something different to you, I think you missed that one.
But I agree, anything over $12M/yr is too much of a salary cap number for a WR... any position other than QB if you ask me.
I don't understand SteelB's point.
Every SB winning QB has a, clutch-time, #1 receiver as his go-to guy.
Flacco had Anquan Boldin
Rodgers had Greg Jennings
Brees had Marques Colston
And the teams that let those guys walk haven't been back since they won the SB.
even Russell Wilson had Golden Tate
NCTexan
Veteran
I think the Seahawks are the closest we've come in a while to being that team without a true clutch receiver to win the SB. But they had Lynch, so that kind of cancels it out in my mind.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I guess Thorn didn't specify the sky had to be from Earth...
A minor oversight.
I don't think there's any single formula which adds up to a SB winner, rather it's just the team that has the greatest sum of all of it's parts: for example this year the total of Seattle's superior defense with well-balanced offense including a competent QB just added up to more than Denver's outstanding offense led by a HOF QB.
Sigma
Veteran
kingtexan
All Pro
Granted, but the old adage that "defense wins championships" has proven accurate time and time again.
So maybe no formula per-Se, but definitely the focus still has to be on defense.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
thankfully there will always be someone willing to help you with those
LOL. I love Mars pics.
NCTexan
Veteran
Oh I agree there's no single formula, but I think there are some parts that have to be there. There tends to be a go-to WR or RB is all I'm saying.
TejasTom
All Pro
NCTexan
Veteran
It doesn't get any more clutch than this.
Well played sir. Well played.
jaayteetx
All Pro
It doesn't get any more clutch than this.
Having incompetent refs?
Dude, you're attitude is like AJ has been acting like Terrel Owens or some other diva WR.
Petulant child? For real? Petulant is defined as "childishly sulky or bad-tempered".
How is AJ being petulant by giving an honest answer to a question?
He has not shown up for VOLUNTARY (you might need to look up the definition of that word, too) workouts, which is quite common in the NFL for older veterans.
Big. Freakin'. Deal.
That you ramble on about billionaire Bob feeling betrayed is pure hyperbole and conjecture on your part. Your are projecting your surly attitude about life into a professional situation. You do not have a clue what McNair thinks about this matter any more than the rest of us, but you sure seem confident to speak for a man that you have always held in contempt.
"Truth is this situation between AJ & McNair comes down to $$$$"
Prove this statement as TRUTH or it is nothing but evidence of posterior vocalization on your part.
And don't come in here months later acting like you had some inside information. Make your case now or just admit you are speculating based on nothing but your opinion.
Not to get involved in the conversation between you & steelb .... but
Its been reported that #80 wont be showing up for the mandatory workouts.
It might not be a big deal now .... but it could escalate real quick to a full blown disaster.
If he does not show up to mandatory minicamp, then he certainly deserves to be criticized (unless he retires from the NFL this summer).
That said, the criticism should be about not acting professional, but folks tend to bring personal agendas to the issue and start making unsubstantiated accusations.
I guess I give AJ the benefit of the doubt until the facts come out.
If I had to speculate, I'd say it's less about money and more about wanting to play somewhere else. Mainly due to what he said about rebuilding again and tired of losing so much. But, I completely admit that this is just opinion on my part that is colored by my respect toward AJ. I have no problem with folks speculating, but just don't state that it is "truth" and "facts" when stating opinion.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Proud of you, doing good research, learning, seeing the BIG picture. So what do you say to JJ Watt and his agent who will be asking for $20 mil + a year?
Texian
Hall of Fame
I say make some lemonade out of this lemon, there is a team who thinks they're a SB contender and only a player away, say 49ers or the Pats who would likely part with a 2015 or a 2016 1st RD pick for AJ.
No one is giving a first round pick for AJ.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
especially with the salary that would follow him
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What he is suggesting, a 2016 1st, is generally considered equivalent to a 3rd round pick now.
kingtexan
All Pro
20m a year for JJ is a steal ...
Must be that fuzzy NFL math.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
anything over a million for any of these guys to play a game is way to much IMO. Take some of that nfl revenue and spread it out among military vets and their families. No one should make as much as these guys do to play a game. IMO
kingtexan
All Pro
Of course, that is a given.
Priority put on entertainment in the world is disgusting. But I still enjoy football ...
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I get what you're saying, but I think people should be paid whatever someone is willing to pay.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You've never been that close to the SB....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
yep, such is the inherent nature of a free market economy.
The opposite would have a government mandated price system, which is totalitarian in nature and very close to real world fascism.
infantrycak said:
My thoughts, as well. This would be a boring world if only necessities were allowed to exist.
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
Nah, it's the time present value of draft picks. You just discount the draft flow.
Sigma
Veteran
badboy
Hall of Fame
I'd say "JJ, you are under contract for 2015 and if you don't come down some, I will franchise tag you until you do."
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
IIRC, Franchising a player comes with a face value cap hit. So, imo, it'll hurt the "team" more than it'll hurt JJ. A cap hit of 13+ would be a tough one to absorb in our present (within 3 yrs) situation.
Yep. And franchising a player like JJ is not the way to stay in his good graces as an organization. I think you can only franchise a guy twice in a row, iirc, so it's not like you could keep him here indefinitely.
JJ is a guy that the team just needs to pay and build around. Any fan that wants to gripe and moan about what he is making has a choice to either quit being a fan and quit supporting the product or just deal with reality and enjoy it for the entertainment that it is at the end of the day.
badboy
Hall of Fame
There has to be some more cutting of these enormous salaries, the CBA helped tremendously but signing a player to gobs then have him get hurt like Cush or crap out hurts team more imo. A 20 million dollar annual salary regardless of how it is arranged will hurt also.
badboy
Hall of Fame
You are correct but 2014, 2015, '16 and '17 allows us time to decide what to do.
Texans have been successful offering reasonable contracts to players they wanted to keep and I'm sure Watt will not be an issue either. Of course, AJ's future may impact Watt.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
That image puts into perspective for me what Jimmy Graham's problem is with the TE franchise vs. WR franchise...
How much of the cap % wise was allotted to the Go to guys that you listed above
Voluntary is why I don't care if AJ shows up or not.
Question for you? In your business doesn't it always come down to $$$$?
It's the same for AJ and McNair. CBS had a report that AJ wanted more $$$$ and McNair said no. (Thru Smith I'm Sure) You don't think that is the root of the problem and I respect that.
I'm speculating but if you follow the $$$$ you will usually find the answer to the questions that have been asked.
We will have too agree to disagree on this one. I get the AJ love I like him too.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not even close to always and that is true in lots of professions for lots of people. People take jobs based on all sorts of other factors - location, hours, flexibility, work environment, etc.
All of this is speculation.
You give AJ the benefit of the doubt, I don't. My OPINION of AJ's lack of loyalty comes from the fact that McNair redid AJ's contract when he didn't have too.
I could be wrong but these kinds of things usually come down to $$$$ in my experience. As I said in the post above I respect your opinion I happen to disagree with it. No harm/no foul.
Not if AJ's contract was removed from the books.
Speaking solely from my own perspective, no, it doesn't always come down to money.
I won't get into my personal details, but safe to say, I am a living example that business doesn't always come down to money. Those on this forum that know me in real life understand what I'm saying, but safe to say that I value other things greater than money and this directly impacts my professional life.
I have not seen a report from CBS, so if it has been officially reported, then it is what it is.
I only commented because you quoted me, and you made some absolute statements that you presented as truth, in addition to disparaging AJ's character. There are not many athletes that I hold in high regard, because I do not know these guys in real life. That said, based on history and M.O., I choose to give a couple of them the benefit of the doubt as a fan. AJ is obviously one of them.
Well, yeah, that was basically my whole point. Thanks for agreement.
No problem with different perspectives. As far as loyalty in pro sports, I find that team loyalty only extends to a what-can-you-do-for-me-now mentality.
Loyalty is a strange concept in a business that allows the owners to cut players under contract, while players are bound to honor that same contract as long as the team wants them on the roster.
Loyalty in my book should be a two way street. McNair CHOSE to pay AJ based on a variety of factors, ALL of which directly benefit McNair's business. This is no different than Jimmy Johnson's perspective as Cowboys head coach who treated players differently based on who they were and what they had accomplished. It is basic human nature in that regard.
I tend to agree most of the time, but AJ has not been the typical diva WR for the past decade+, and loyalty to this franchise has most likely cost him a chance to be on a Super Bowl team and even put up stats that could get him into the HoF. His talent level is certainly up there with the greats, and while I'm not asking for anyone to feel sorry for the guy, I would like to at least think that his 11 year career with the Houston Texans has created a reservoir of goodwill from the fan base.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You can only franchise a player twice. (Peppers at Carolina)
In JJ's case it will be cheaper to franchise him than pay him the salary he will want and command. $12-$13 million vs $20+ million
The BIG picture and right thing to do for the long term success of the Houston Texans, if in fact JJ and his agent seek a $100 million +/$20 million + a year, 5 yr contract, is do a sign and trade starting at (3) 1st RD draft picks.
One reason McNair won't pay AJ additional $ is because he really doesn't have additional $ to pay unless he borrows from future year salary caps.
Best thing to do is put out the word to all Super Bowl wanna bees, who can actually taste it, that a 2015 or 2016 FIRST RD draft pick gets AJ.
In JJ's case it will be cheaper to franchise him than pay him the salary he will want and command. $12-$13 million vs $20+ million
The BIG picture and right thing to do for the long term success of the Houston Texans, if in fact JJ and his agent seek a $100 million +/$20 million + a year, 5 yr contract, is do a sign and trade starting at (3) 1st RD draft picks.
One reason McNair won't pay AJ additional $ is because he really doesn't have additional $ to pay unless he borrows from future year salary caps.
Best thing to do is put out the word to all Super Bowl wanna bees, who can actually taste it, that a 2015 or 2016 FIRST RD draft pick gets AJ.
Reported by who?
Is there a quote from A.J. himself? ...because that's who I'd like to hear it from.
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