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All encompassing 2022 draft thoughts thread

justmy2cents said:
How far does Kyle Hamilton fall ?
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Texansphan said:
If he gets past us or the Jets, I'll be surprised.
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You have to remember that Hamilton was rehabbing a knee injury and may have gotten a late start training for the combine. His jumps were still elite. I will say that Hamilton didn't look as cut up as some of the better prospects. Hamilton has a pro day at the end of the month (3/25) and could also have a private workout after that. I don't see Hamilton "dropping" due to his combine 40. The question has always been, at what point will someone pull the trigger?
 
Be careful in regards to getting too excited about players numbers while performing in underwear and t-shirts.

Would these numbers hold up in full uniform and under duress. Take these numbers and stack them up against their CFB stats to get a better picture of the player.
 
TexansFan15 said:
I don’t think he falls. I still believe he goes in the Top 10
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He may .... But did you see him run ? He's a hell of a specimen .... that's for sure. However, he's got some of the longest strides I've ever seen. DB's have got to be able to move very quickly to react and respond. I think someone will create some hybrid position for him.
 
justmy2cents said:
He may .... But did you see him run ? He's a hell of a specimen .... that's for sure. However, he's got some of the longest strides I've ever seen. DB's have got to be able to move very quickly to react and respond. I think someone will create some hybrid position for him.
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We must take into consideration the difference in running all out in a 40 yard straight line versus how you play on a football field. Hamilton’s play on the field is what got scouts excited….not his 40 time.
 
Lucky said:
Are there any lazier or weaker takes on this board than the incessant Clowney comparisons?
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I never thought Clowney would be a top shelf edge rusher. He's stiff. Clowney is a good football player, not a great one plus he has an injury history. Kayvon has alot of Clowney physical traits, but he's alot more bendable and flexible. He played in the 2 pt, but I think he would be awesome in Lovie system.
 
Lucky said:
I totally agree with that. The Texans are in a tough spot at #3 if Neal and Hutchinson are off the board. It's been 10 years since a position other than QB, DL, or CB has been taken at #3. Include OT to that list, and it's 20 of the past 21 drafts.

QB - No player worthy in this draft
DL - All prospects have either production or personality questions
CB - Top prospect has injury concern
OT - Questions regarding pro readiness and position fit

The options at #3 would be go outside of the box at the position drafted, take a chance on a player with question marks, trade out of the pick, or trade into the top 2.

The smart move is to trade out of the pick, and get extra bites at the apple. Take advantage of the depth of this draft. The question would be, who wants to move up and have the same dilemma?
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People always talk about no qb. In 2008, there werent't qb options. Somehow Matt Ryan and Flacco went in the 1st rd. The great Bill Parcells skipped both, drafted Long and Chad Henne. If he drafted Ryan vs Henne, he might have had another shot at a superbowl. If you evaluate the qbs and say there isnt one, you better be right. If that one you passed on goes on to success, its a scramble drill. People talk about Trubisky in the 2017 draft, but SF drafted Thomas before Mahomes and Watson. If they had either vs Jimmy G and Thomas, they would have trophies.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Be careful in regards to getting too excited about players numbers while performing in underwear and t-shirts.

Would these numbers hold up in full uniform and under duress. Take these numbers and stack them up against their CFB stats to get a better picture of the player.
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I’d also take a look at how that person was used. Would I use him the same way? Can I do something with him?

Like JJ Watt. Good player. Wade made him a special player.
 
cuppacoffee said:
So some of our posters want us to pass on a "generational" talent like Hamilton.

Lets select an O lineman instead.

Makes perfect sense to me. :rolleyes:

:coffee:
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Not just an OL'man, but extra picks as well. With smart trading, if the trade is there, we could end up with, maybe, two extra 2nd round picks and, maybe, two more 3rd round picks.

The OL'man picked may not be "generational", but a 10 - 12 yr starter and a possible pro bowl talent. However, I'm waiting for final evaluations from my go-to sources.

Also, you ignor the possibility of injury for your generational talent. If you are trading 1 for 5, the impact risk of injury is lessoned.
 
Lucky said:
You have to remember that Hamilton was rehabbing a knee injury and may have gotten a late start training for the combine. His jumps were still elite. I will say that Hamilton didn't look as cut up as some of the better prospects. Hamilton has a pro day at the end of the month (3/25) and could also have a private workout after that. I don't see Hamilton "dropping" due to his combine 40. The question has always been, at what point will someone pull the trigger?
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I like Hamilton alot. The thing that gives me pause is his knee injury. It is a condition called "fat pad impingement syndrome." The reason it is labelled as a syndrome is that, although it can often be treated conservatively for 6-8 weeks, it tends to be a chronic/recurrent condition exacerbated by direct trauma to the knee cap or knee, or with overuse. But one thing has caught my eye. With as little or minimized information that college teams typically release regarding injuries to their players, I found that just prior to his syndrome diagnosis, he had sustained a meniscus injury. This injury which gathered very little attention is an injury which can be associated with the impingement syndrome noted by collapsing the space between the femoral condyle and the tibia plateau, thus contributing to the compression of the fat pad.



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Number19 said:
I'm waiting for final evaluations from my go-to sources.
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Are you suggesting your go-to sources aren't on this message board?

You're hurting a lot of feelings here.

5b9b31672000003100fd1c54.jpeg
 
Lucky said:
Maybe. At what point in the draft to you go with a projection maybe?
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I wouldn't have a problem at 1-3

The fact that he is the most physically gifted of the bunch at Georgia and was the only dl that didn't come off of the field makes him worth 1-3 IMHO.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Be careful in regards to getting too excited about players numbers while performing in underwear and t-shirts.

Would these numbers hold up in full uniform and under duress. Take these numbers and stack them up against their CFB stats to get a better picture of the player.
Click to expand...

Agreed,

Difference is the 2 dl I put at 1-3/2-37. Davis and Williams proved it on the field. Walker did as well. All of these guys are very talented football players.
 
leebigeztx said:
People always talk about no qb. In 2008, there werent't qb options. Somehow Matt Ryan and Flacco went in the 1st rd.
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That's not how I remember 2008. Going with Mr. Peabody in the wayback machine...

Flacco was a surprise, yes. But, everyone had Matty Ice going near the top of the draft.

Peter King had Ryan going #3.
keyser said:
Peter King has posted his Mock draft here. There are some interesting insights/comments (notably that some team between 8 and 17 is interested in trading down - does that imply that the Texans might be a prospect for trading up or at least be the source of the rumor?). But, the most interesting thing is who is available at #18 in his mock - he has Williams, Albert, and Mendenhall all available at that point (and has the Texans picking Williams). Here's the full list (he had a couple of trades in there at 20 and 26):

1. Miami - Jake Long
2. St. Louis - Chris Long
3. Atlanta - Matt Ryan
4. Oakland - Glenn Dorsey
5. Kansas City - Ryan Clady
6. New York Jets - Darren McFadden
7. New England - Vernon Gholston
8. Baltimore - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
9. Cincinnatti - Sedrick Ellis
10. New Orleans - Mike Jenkins
11. Buffalo - Devin Thomas
12. Denver - Keith Rivers
13. Carolina - Jonathan Stewart
14. Chicago - Jeff Otah
15. Detroit - Derrick Harvey
16. Arizona - Leodis McKelvin
17. Minnesota - LimasSweed
18. Houston - Chris Williams
19. Philadelphia - DeSean Jackson
20. Baltimore - Chad Henne
21. Washington - Phillip Merling
22. Dallas - Rashard Mendenhall
23. Pittsburgh - Branden Albert
24. Tennessee - Jerod Mayo
25. Seattle - Kentwan Balmer
26. Carolina - Brian Brohm
27. San Diego - Felix Jones
28. Dallas - AqibTalib
29. San Francisco - Gosder Cherilus
30. Green Bay - Dustin Keller
31. New York Giants - Tyrell Johnson


This is so far from other mocks that I tend to give it very little weight, but it does bring up the question, if the draft fell out that way, who would you draft at #18?
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Lance Zierlein (yes, he once posted here) had Ryan going to Atlanta.
LZ said:
<strong>Final Mock Draft</strong>

Here is my final mock draft. The player in parenthesis represents who I think the team could go with as well depending on how the board starts to shape up.

1. Miami - Jake Long, OT, Michigan
2. St. Louis - Chris Long, DE, Virginia
3. Atlanta - Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College
4. Oakland - Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas / (Dorsey)
*5. New Orleans (from KC) - Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU / (Dorsey for Chiefs)
6. NY Jets - Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State
*7. Kansas City (from NO/from NE) - Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida / (McKelvin for Pats)
8. Baltimore - Brandon Albert, LT, Virginia / (Matt Ryan in a trade up)
9. Cincinnati - Sedrick Ellis, NT, USC / (Harvey)
*10. New England (from NO) - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB, Tenn. State / (DRC or McKelvin for Saints)
11. Buffalo - Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy / (D. Thomas)
12. Denver - Ryan Clady, LT, Boise State / (Williams)
13. Carolina - Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon / (Otah)
14. Chicago - Chris Williams, LT, Vanderbilt / (Cherilus)
15. Detroit - Jerod Mayo, LB, Tennessee / (Mendenhall)
16. Arizona - Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois (Stewart or M. Jenkins)
17. Kansas City - Jeff Otah, OT, Pitt / (Cherilus)
18. Houston - Keith Rivers, LB, USC / (Mendenhall)
<strong>Z-Report Says: </strong>This one looks like it is shaping up to be a decent selection. The Texans will have a shot at one of the following: Mayo, Rivers, D. Thomas, Mendenhall, Stewart or M. Jenkins. It looks like they won't be able to get the LT they covet but thems are the breaks when you don't have ammunition to move up in the draft. Still, there should be good value at 18.
19. Philadelphia - Gosder Cherilus, RT, Boston / (Rivers)
20. Tampa Bay - Mike Jenkins, CB, USF / (Talib)
21. Washington - Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson
22. Dallas - Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan St. / (F. Jones)
23. Pittsburgh - Curtis Lofton, LB, Oklahoma / (D. Thomas or F. Jones)
24. Tennessee - Limas Sweed, WR, Texas / (Talib)
25. Seattle - Kentwan Balmer, DT, North Carolina / (Sweed)
26. Jacksonville - Tyrell Johnson, SS, Arkansas St / (Balmer)
27. San Diego - Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas / (B. Flowers)
28. Dallas - Kenny Phillips, FS, Miami / (Talib or Flowers)
29. San Francisco - James Hardy, WR, Indiana / (D. Jackson)
30. Green Bay - Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas / (F. Jones)
31. NY Giants - Brandon Flowers, CB, Virginia Tech / (K. Phillips)
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Our own resident draftnik @beerlover put Ryan at #3. And copyrighted the mock for authenticity.

If beerlover said it, that settles it.
beerlover said:
1 Chris Long, DE 6-4 275 Virginia

2 Darren McFadden, RB 6-2 210 Arkansas

3 Matt Ryan, QB 6-5 224 Boston College

4 Glenn Dorsey, DT 6-2 317 LSU

5 Sedrick Ellis, DT 6-2 295 USC

6 Jake Long OT, 6-7 320 Michigan

7 Brian Brohm, QB 6-3 230 Louisville

8 Leodis McKelvin, CB 5-10 1/2 186 Troy

9 Jonathan Stewart, RB 5-10 235 Oregon

10 Ryan Clady, OT 6-6 316 Boise St.

11 Kenny Phillips, FS 6-1 205 Miami

12 Vernon Gholston, DE 6-4 260 Ohio State

13.Mike Jenkins, CB 6-0 200 South Florida

14 Calais Campbell, DE 6-7 282 Miami

15 Aqib Talib, CB 6-1 205 Kansas

16 Rashard Mendenhall, RB 5-11 210 Illinois

17 Keith Rivers, LB 6-3 220 USC

18 Jeff Otah, OT 6-7 340 Pitt

19 Derrick Harvey, DE 6-4 245 Florida

20 Lawrence Jackson, DE 6-4 260 USC

21 Dan Connor, LB 6-2 233 Penn State

22 DeSean Jackson, WR 5-11 172 Cal

23 Kentwan Balmer, DT 6-5 298 North Carolina State

24 Chris Williams, OT 6-6 320 Vanderbilt

25 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB Tennessee State

26 Felix Jones, RB 6-0 200 Arkansas

27 Malcolm Kelly, WR 6-4 220 Oklahoma

28 Gosder Cherilus, OT, 6-6 320 Boston College

29 Antoine Cason, CB 6-0 190 Arizona

30 Sam Baker, OT 6-4 310 USC

31 Pat Sims, DT 6-3 315 Auburn

32 Andre Caldwell, WR 6-0 207 Florida

updated. copyright20080126
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steelbtexan said:
I wouldn't have a problem at 1-3

The fact that he is the most physically gifted of the bunch at Georgia and was the only dl that didn't come off of the field makes him worth 1-3 IMHO.
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steelbtexan said:
Walker
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Has there ever been a defensive lineman with less than 10 career sacks go in the top 3 of the draft (NCAA has tracked sacks since 2005)? All 15 D-lineman drafted in the top 3 since 2006 (Mario!) with 10 or more career sacks. But you would be OK with the Texans making draft history (Walker has 9.5 sacks in 3 seasons)?

Are you trying to get Nick and Lovie fired?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I like Hamilton alot. The thing that gives me pause is his knee injury. It is a condition called "fat pad impingement syndrome." The reason it is labelled as a syndrome is that, although it can often be treated conservatively for 6-8 weeks, it tends to be a chronic/recurrent condition exacerbated by direct trauma to the knee cap or knee, or with overuse. But one thing has caught my eye. With as little or minimized information that college teams typically release regarding injuries to their players, I found that just prior to his syndrome diagnosis, he had sustained a meniscus injury. This injury which gathered very little attention is an injury which can be associated with the impingement syndrome noted by collapsing the space between the femoral condyle and the tibia plateau, thus contributing to the compression of the fat pad.
Click to expand...
So, does it look like surgery is in Hamilton's near future? Would that be an issue going forward?
 
Lucky said:
The options at #3 would be go outside of the box at the position drafted, take a chance on a player with question marks, trade out of the pick, or trade into the top 2.

The smart move is to trade out of the pick, and get extra bites at the apple. Take advantage of the depth of this draft. The question would be, who wants to move up and have the same dilemma?
Click to expand...
Yea the strength of this Draft is its depth which of course everyone else also knows so if say you are willing to compromise to
get at the depth then be willing to accept less for your #3 overall.
For example the DV-chart says the #3 should be worth the Giants #5 & their seconder but if the Giant push-back then
compromise and agree to except their third round pick & maybe 4th or maybe just the 5th instead.
The DV-chart should not be set in stone, but rather be able to flex yearly with the well, the value of the Draft top to bottom.
 
leebigeztx said:
I never thought Clowney would be a top shelf edge rusher. He's stiff. Clowney is a good football player, not a great one plus he has an injury history. Kayvon has alot of Clowney physical traits, but he's alot more bendable and flexible. He played in the 2 pt, but I think he would be awesome in Lovie system.
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Somebody else on the Board, might have been Lucky, said earlier that he thought Demarcus Ware was a good comparable for
Thib ? I dunno, what do you think ?
 
Lucky said:
Has there ever been a defensive lineman with less than 10 career sacks go in the top 3 of the draft (NCAA has tracked sacks since 2005)? All 15 D-lineman drafted in the top 3 since 2006 (Mario!) with 10 or more career sacks. But you would be OK with the Texans making draft history (Walker has 9.5 sacks in 3 seasons)?

Are you trying to get Nick and Lovie fired?
Click to expand...

I'm betting on the rare athletic ability. It really shows up on tape. He wasn't asked to rush the passer. He played inside on passing downs.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm betting on the rare athletic ability. It really shows up on tape. He wasn't asked to rush the passer. He played inside on passing downs.
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The Ravens bet on a guy last year with incredible athleticism that had a career 7 sacks (Jayson Oweh). They bet at pick #31. You're asking Nick and Lovie to bet #3.

The Texans and Steelers bet on the Watt brothers. Both had 11 career sacks. Maybe Travon Walker is a Watt brother from a different mother? Big difference is that the Watts were both late bloomers. Travon Walker was a 5 star recruit that was offered by Georgia at 15. He's been on the radar that long. And we're still waiting for him to emerge as a superstar on the football field.

I do agree with the rare athletic ability part.
 
Lucky said:
The Ravens bet on a guy last year with incredible athleticism that had a career 7 sacks (Jayson Oweh). They bet at pick #31. You're asking Nick and Lovie to bet #3.

The Texans and Steelers bet on the Watt brothers. Both had 11 career sacks. Maybe Travon Walker is a Watt brother from a different mother? Big difference is that the Watts were both late bloomers. Travon Walker was a 5 star recruit that was offered by Georgia at 15. He's been on the radar that long. And we're still waiting for him to emerge as a superstar on the football field.

I do agree with the rare athletic ability part.
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I'm betting on the fact that they had him and the freshman DT taking up blockers on passing downs so Smith and Anderson (Before the rape charges) could get single blockers outside.
 
Lucky said:
Has there ever been a defensive lineman with less than 10 career sacks go in the top 3 of the draft (NCAA has tracked sacks since 2005)? All 15 D-lineman drafted in the top 3 since 2006 (Mario!) with 10 or more career sacks. But you would be OK with the Texans making draft history (Walker has 9.5 sacks in 3 seasons)?

Are you trying to get Nick and Lovie fired?
Click to expand...
steelbtexan said:
I'm betting on the rare athletic ability. It really shows up on tape. He wasn't asked to rush the passer. He played inside on passing downs.
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I'm going to try and put things in perspective and make a little sense out of Thibodeaux vs Walker comparison, attitudes be damned. For beginners, it's an apples and oranges comparison. Thibodeaux is an OLB Edge rusher; Walker is an interior D lineman.

Georgia ran a 3-4 Defense; DT = Devonte Wyatt, NT - Jordan Davis, DE - Travon Walker. Nakobe Dean was a OLB and the designated edge rusher. Walker was a hand in the dirt interior DL, 3 technique in the Georgia system.
247sports.com

Georgia Football releases depth chart for National Championship vs Alabama

.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Oregon also ran a 3-4 Defense; DT - Hudson-Ware, NT - Aumavae, DE - Dorlus, Kayvon Thibideaux was the Joker, OLB designated pass rusher. Kayvon did not play with his hand in the dirt, he played standing up fromthe 5 or 7 technique.
Oregon Ducks release first official depth chart for start of 2021 (usatoday.com)

Interior DL do not usually produce BIG defensive numbers. However Walker's numbers for 3-4 DE are very respectable, much more in-line with something you would see from a 4-3 DE. In all fairness, Walker playing DE in Georgia's 3-4 compromised and did a disservice to his production numbers. In much the same way Wisconsin 3-4 D masked JJ Watt's abilities. Highly probable Wade Phillips could do for Walker what he did for Watt. It should also be noted that Thibodeaux lined up outside of the OT almost twice as much as Walker. When Walker did line up outside of the OT it was on his shoulder, 5 technique, hardly ever in a 7 technique. Expecting Walker to have Thibodeaux production is not a fair comparison and a disingenuous argument. Would Thibodeaux had the same or better production if most of his snaps were as an interior DL? Also of note Walker is bigger and faster than Thibodeaux.

Walker accumulated seven quarterback pressures in the national championship against an Alabama offensive line that is always brimming with talent, and many feel he was playing out of position for most of the year, indicating he could be an even better professional than he was a college player.
 
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TexansFan15 said:
List of prospects the Texans have seen:

Treylon Burks WR- COM
Kayvon Thibodeaux DE- COM
MalikWillis QB- COM
Cole Strange OG/C- SB
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Mathew Butler DL- EW

“I met with the Jets, Giants, Buccaneers, Titans, Saints, Raiders, Bears, and Texans. Those are just a few off the top of my head. I remember those teams very specifically for one reason or another, but it doesn’t mean any meetings went better than the others. I had some great conversations. We got to learn about each other throughout the process.”
 
thunderkyss said:
I’d also take a look at how that person was used. Would I use him the same way? Can I do something with him?

Like JJ Watt. Good player. Wade made him a special player.
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Or a bigger faster Vonn Miller. Maybe a Lawrence Taylor??? Or a Michael Strahan????
 
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Lucky said:
Has there ever been a defensive lineman with less than 10 career sacks go in the top 3 of the draft (NCAA has tracked sacks since 2005)? All 15 D-lineman drafted in the top 3 since 2006 (Mario!) with 10 or more career sacks. But you would be OK with the Texans making draft history (Walker has 9.5 sacks in 3 seasons)?

Are you trying to get Nick and Lovie fired?
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Are you one of the just about everybody on the board that bitched when the Texans let DJ Reader go? A guy that has so far only has 9.5 NFL sacks. A guy that had a whopping 4college sacks?
 
Lucky said:
Also, a guy that was a 5th round pick (not the #3 overall), or an edge rusher.

Analogies may not be your thing.
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so he was unimportant to the Bengals SB run? Not what the media is saying. It’s a critical position in a Lovie defense. Should we wait until round 5 to try to upgrade Roy Lopez? Common sense may not be your thing.
 
Dejaview said:
so he was unimportant to the Bengals SB run? Not what the media is saying. It’s a critical position in a Lovie defense. Should we wait until round 5 to try to upgrade Roy Lopez? Common sense may not be your thing.
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If you’re looking at Walker to replace DJ Reader, you’re doing it wrong
 
Dejaview said:
so he was unimportant to the Bengals SB run? Not what the media is saying. It’s a critical position in a Lovie defense. Should we wait until round 5 to try to upgrade Roy Lopez? Common sense may not be your thing.
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thunderkyss said:
If you’re looking at Walker to replace DJ Reader, you’re doing it wrong
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OK, but he's at least doing it wrong consistently.

@Dejaview you may be thinking about Jordan Davis.

jordan-davis-nfl-scouting-combine.jpg
 
Lucky said:
That's not how I remember 2008. Going with Mr. Peabody in the wayback machine...

Flacco was a surprise, yes. But, everyone had Matty Ice going near the top of the draft.

Peter King had Ryan going #3.

Lance Zierlein (yes, he once posted here) had Ryan going to Atlanta.

Our own resident draftnik @beerlover put Ryan at #3. And copyrighted the mock for authenticity.

If beerlover said it, that settles it.
Click to expand...
Before CFB season started that year, I didn't see Ryan as the top prospect, but I could've missed it. My point being that especially with the rookie wage scale and the team picking high, you have to be as certain as you ever was about the qb not being a franchise worthy qb. Bill Parcells decided to get the left tackle 1st and come back and get the qb. Well, Matt Ryan has been behind the helm, even became league mvp and made an appearence in the superbowl. Chad Henne has been a journeyman and long was injury prone. The commanders passed on Herbert to draft Young. Now going into year 3 they're still looking for a qb and the clock is running on Chico.
 
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