Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Watson missed no games last season and we weren't contenders except in the minds of the most die hard BoBinistas. We are a lesser team today than we were then.
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After all the trades, the Texans aren't realistic contenders
- Thread starter TheKDog
- Start date
Watson missed no games last season and we weren't contenders except in the minds of the most die hard BoBinistas. We are a lesser team today than we were then.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Maybe he went to lunch with Daryl Morey and Daryl asked him how he felt they were hitting on picks and told him he gives em away like cotton candy
He has this year and a potentially a 5th year option which you assume they would lock in but considering the draft capital invested , it made more sense to do an extension as part of the trade. Two years for 2 #1's and a #2 isn't what I call value.
Not doing so exposes them to huge risk - ending up with nothing after that 5th year option and also gives the player all the leverage in any future contract talks considering the investment the team made.
It was downright DUMB not to negotiate an extension as part of the trade.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Thank you. Finally someone else that comprehends this. Its mind boggling that no one else is talking about this. How did they not make the extension as a demand from Tunsil? Now Tunsil and his agent can play all types of games to get what they want from incentives to yearly salaries, to whatever else he wants. Hell, he could hold out starting right now or next season if he wants. He knows we have to do this now. What a mess. Lol!
I'm happy about "the player" …. They needed a guy like him , particularly with Watson's propensity to hang onto the ball so long - because he feels like he can escape / buy time.
What I'm not happy about is the cost and the fact that they didn't get him extended as part of the trade.
The other thing is that you have to extend him & Watson in the same offseason.
Watson's gonna cost you 13% or so of the cap & Tunsil will cost you 8-9% and they'll have to skimp elsewhere as a result.
What does this desperation trade tell you about how they feel about Howard as a future LT ?
If they felt he could play the position at some point this year or next , I don't believe they give up all those picks.
To me this is an admission that they screwed the pooch with that pick.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
The way of the future? Yeah, if you're smoking crack. I'd love to see a GM go with your route for several years just to watch his team destruct.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Pretty simple really. The value of an extension for such a young player just starting to enter his prime is undetermined currently. Do you know what his market will be after the next two years? If so please let us all know! If he was at the end of his current contract an extension would go without saying, but hey don’t let common sense get in the way of taking another shot at the Texans. Hell why didn’t the Seahawks demand same from Clowney? He’s the one most likely to walk.
I think they're going to be better than you might expect, Tunsil might end up being the missing link that will solidify the team
There's quite the difference in investing a 3rd round pick …. that you would recoup in the form of a compensatory pick if he left as a FA and two #1's & a #2.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Clearly you have no clue what his leverage is or why he has it now. Again, there are folks like you that simply don't even understand what Corossion or I just explained. You aren't capable of it.
How hard can it be to game plan the Texans offense under OB?
1st down: Pass play with 5 second route concepts
2nd down: RB up the gut.
3rd down: Bubble/WR screen.
4th down: Punt
Some guys can't see what's gonna happen, and then when it does, that say things like "no one could have predicted this!"
You guys are absolutely right, of course. The amount of future picks and capspace they used to very slightly improve the team is mind boggling. Really unprecedented.
Somehow we have put in complete power a guy who values future assets (draft picks, capspace, etc) at almost zero. so he gives them away like free candy for a short term but uncertain upgrade today.
And on top he's willing to put his personal feelings above the welfare of the team. Like in the clowney and Brock trades that sacrificed team assets for nothing except him winning a grudge match in return
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
When they still could have picked other Olineman next season or made trades in the season. They could have kept drafting Lineman. Just because they totally blew their 1st round pick this year, they turn right around and blow the next two years of picks away as a panic response all for OB's selfishness to save his job. That's all this was. That dipshit was worried as **** about how bad the Oline was going to look after he gambled this far with it and realized his hand was total ****. Also, no one is talking about the fact that the Phins forced us to take Stills as well who was a franchise cancer there and Miami had no talent at receiver really, and still wanted him out of there
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
In some respects it's understandable BoB was willing to give the kitchen sink to fix one part of many problems. The real issue here is his unerring inability to identify, develop, or utilise players for his supposed area of expertise. Hence, we have 6 years of half-measures and failures to fix problems largely created by, and sustained by, Bill O'Brien.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Exactly, and they didnt even need to trade Clowney at all at this point. They already had botched that, so there best bet was to hold onto him as he would have had to come back during the season. They could franchise him for next year and restart trade talks to do this again where he could hopefully dominate whatever portion of the season he played and still jumped his value up again especially if he could average a sack a game or close to it. He'd be in a very sticky situation where he'd have to play hard to earn a big contract still. Clowney only had leverage for now. He only had short term leverage on us. The Texans had all the long term leverage with Clowney. People don't understand how his contract worked or what the Texans still could have done. They're completely oblivious to it.
This Andrew Luck retirement has people thinking like total retards as if every young QB retires the minute his Oline gets shaky. The Luck situation is the most rare thing we've ever seen and totally not the new norm. Hell, it's so odd it's a complete and utter worthless reference based on the historical awareness of it.
Yep the easy solution is to tell him we won't trade him this year on the tag. Let him play his ass off for his next contract and then trade him next year
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
If OB has a bad coaching season, they may not be able to fire him now either. Who is going to come and coach here knowing their top two draft picks for 2 seasons are gone including a 2nd rounder? Lol! The list of HC candidates is likely to a be a really shitty one making the likelihood that Cal leaves OB around to deal with his mess a lot larger. That's how I see it any way. A lot of Great HC candidates will likely not want a job where his first two drafts are fucked.
They are going to need like a 5 year guarantee so they at least get 3 first round picks
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
His level of play two years from now is his leverage. His agent isn’t going to extend him now. Look at Elliot. His play is his leverage. Tunsil...not quite there yet. Just was never even a possibility to extend Tunsil at this point. Ever care to notice how many extension disputes go on yearly in the NFL. Haven’t heard one yet holding out because he was traded for draft picks. But it makes for great bashing material.
Completely unfounded speculation. They could have negotiated an extension as part of the trade as the bears did with Mack.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Again you don't properly understand how contracts work or why he doesn't even have to play like a great LT at this point to get it. You simply can't make the connection that myself, Corrosion, and Kdog I've already explained several times. You're lost in translation for some reason. Read through the posts again, and you might understand. I'm not going to keep explaining common sense to someone who doesn't appear to know how NFL contracts work or how their agents operate in negotiation.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Yeah every candidate will say no way. Screw the talent accumulated on this team.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Mack was at his peak.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Tunsil could start a holdout right now knowing his leverage. What the **** could the Texans do? Lol!
They'd have to pay it.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Yep, you got the A team behind you.
What the heck does that have to do with signing an extension? Doesn't that just make tunsil cheaper?
I bet you were explaining explaining how medicine actually works to doc
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Everyone else in the NFL also could. Your point?
Yeah why not? He's going to be the highest paid LT easily even though he's not close to the best
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Lombardi on 610 just said, yeah they have to pay him, but this happens quite often, and the value was going to be a lot in any case. There was not time nor is there always time, but you never know, we may have floated some parameters. Maybe DW4 told us he was going to give us a discount if we built a team for him?? There are so many variables, I am just happy we have a chance the next couple of years. if we suck, it will be after we get draft picks back and then we start again and I sell my season tickets for a year or two. Life goes on and I enjoy watching and want to see the door kicked in, the slow and steady was not working
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Lombardi on 610 just said, yeah they have to pay him, but this happens quite often, and the value was going to be a lot in any case. There was not time nor is there always time, but you never know, we may have floated some parameters. Maybe DW4 told us he was going to give us a discount if we built a team for him?? There are so many variables, I am just happy we have a chance the next couple of years. if we suck, it will be after we get draft picks back and then we start again and I sell my season tickets for a year or two. Life goes on and I enjoy watching and want to see the door kicked in, the slow and steady was not working
No. Very few players have that kind of leverage.
You seem to be unable to hold two separate concepts in your mind and synthesize them properly.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Not gonna even waste my time explaining stuff to an NFL newbie at this point. You need a few yrs of watching the sport to understand certain things. You're wasting my time at this point because you aren't aware of anything.
What draft picks back? If we suck we don't have a first rounder for two years to get better and we aren't getting them back
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He's a total newbie to the sport. Not wasting time explaining common sense to this clown anymore. He has no idea of the business side and is likely in HS based on his posts.He can't be an actual adult making these arguments.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Dig a deeper hole. I never responded to a single doc medical post ever. You are totally unhinged. Btw, doc, if he even left this board for other than professional reasons, left because of yours and others insane minute by minute rantings. But just keep going down your road.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I am saying current talent should be good for a couple years, so by 2022 we have picks again if we suck. I just don't seeing us be full suck in 2019-2021 so our picks although I get the love, would be later rd1. Just my sense, maybe we suck and then I skip draft parties
Not so much suck, but that they gave up the draft picks and didn't get any better. Tunsil for clowney swap basically means they end up around the same overall, except they lost picks to get better
amazing80
Hall of Fame
You’re a real piece of **** aren’t you?
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
You could argue we need an offense to score with the QBs we play this year as the defense stopping the run ain't as applicable. The QB's will be throwing, RAC's defense has usually been poor against the best QBs. So for 2019, the loss of Clowney's run stopping is less valuable then Merilus pass rush and a better offense. We shall all see how it goes down, and if it goes bad, BOB is gone. So what do we have to lose, a good team we can rally and enjoy, a bad team and we start over.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
You could argue we need an offense to score with the QBs we play this year as the defense stopping the run ain't as applicable. The QB's will be throwing, RAC's defense has usually been poor against the best QBs. So for 2019, the loss of Clowney's run stopping is less valuable then Merilus pass rush and a better offense. We shall all see how it goes down, and if it goes bad, BOB is gone. So what do we have to lose, a good team we can rally and enjoy, a bad team and we start over.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Well despite still being in HS and never being privileged to have access to your superior negotiating skills I was involved in a butt load of acquisitions and contracts and never, ever did we take action without an understanding of fair market value. As Tunsils agent do you know that yet? You gonna extend him now? He hasn’t peaked into the elite tier yet. If he earns a big extension great. He earned it. We sign him and move on. Don’t cry about the cost if you are one of those wanting to extend Clowney.
Sonny
TexSon Proud
Don't get me wrong, I believe two number 1s and the number 2 for basically one player and an add-on is excessive. However, unless YOU are simply enjoying and would rather continue wanting to suck down that haterade you might consider stepping outside the box and weighing the pros and cons and abstain from the knee-jerk reactions and jumping to your own conclusions without any evidence at all. Like I said, I'm not sure this is what they're doing but if they are... It might work yet we just don't know, but if I'm a glass-half-full kind of guy... I'm thinking it could.
If you were GM it wouldn't behoove you to snake or even fleece a guy that is proven with nothing but potential for higher yield and many years yet to go in his football life span vs an empty ballot no name or to be named later pick that may or may not work out at all.?. The draft pick only route sounds like more of a gamble in my opinion.
Also, instead of you being so quick to dismiss and root for the demise of a team, even when it's our team doing this.. well, I hope you're proven wrong and it works out in our favor because I for one would like to see the Texans at the SuperBowl in the near future.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Exactly why I said from the beginning. You don't understand NFL contracts, salary cap, leverage, or how the agents negotiate. The cost is everything when you're managing an "actual salary cap". You end up losing at other positions when they become a need and when you foolishly fill one hole like the Texans did, you end up opening up other new ones later. But clearly you have no idea on how to project any of this. It's just Go Texans even beyond regular analysis. You're talking as a fan, not an evaluator who understands the business side of the NFL and how a salary cap works.
Sonny
TexSon Proud
Then why bother even relaying this at all? It's not as if this empty statement of saying something without saying anything at all is profound. I thought you didn't like a waste of time.
Truth...
Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
You posting that in every thread?
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
Every contract on the Texans is in a file with the yearly cap data extended out to the last contract date with all that entails...guaranteed $$ etc. OB has always implied this by stating Clowney’s contract was not about want but value relative to the contract. We do this all the time in my high school paper route business including tying even simple contracts in with the total organizational budget. Risk analysis, various scenarios etc go into any cap space analysis. Clowney’s value was less to the Texans than the other contracts to insure a cohesive team going forward, ie, value relative to the contract, risk analysis (knee) etc. Now, the Texans are fully aware and prepared to offer fmv to Tunsil when fmv is determinable.
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