9/6 Justice article on Carr

[thunderkyss]

I've picked apart a ton of defenders...Robaire Smith...Foreman, and Coleman come to mind off the top of my head. This straw man stuff is just too much....give it up.

For some reason, you can pick apart any player on this team, except one. It's not made into a big deal, if you criticize a defensive player, or an offensive linemen. WE all read it, put in our two, and move on.

But talk about one particualar disappointment, based on his play, and you get a 20 page war......... & they say they don't want to talk about it.

 

[SESupergenius]

For some reason, you can pick apart any player on this team, except one. It's not made into a big deal, if you criticize a defensive player, or an offensive linemen. WE all read it, put in our two, and move on.

But talk about one particualar disappointment, based on his play, and you get a 20 page war......... & they say they don't want to talk about it.

I haven't seen Dunta's thread too much around here and he stunk last year. Go count how many Carr hatred threads have been around here and add up all the other players hatred threads and I still don't think they will be equal. Carr without a doubt has a couple of issues he needs to resolve, but to blast him right before our first game in a brand new scheme with brand new coaches and players??? What a bunch of chicken littles. The sky is falling.

 

[Vinny]

I haven't seen Dunta's thread too much around here and he stunk last year. Go count how many Carr hatred threads have been around here and add up all the other players hatred threads and I still don't think they will be equal. Carr without a doubt has a couple of issues he needs to resolve, but to blast him right before our first game in a brand new scheme with brand new coaches and players??? What a bunch of chicken littles. The sky is falling.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=209070&postcount=14

 

[SESupergenius]

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=209070&postcount=14

Wow, you found one.....over 9 months ago. I guess you had to dig hard because the way the defense played last year they should be just as hot a topic as all the Carr threads we've seen this month.

 

[Vinny]

Wow, you found one.....over 9 months ago. I guess you had to dig hard because the way the defense played last year they should be just as hot a topic as all the Carr threads we've seen this month.

You said I don't dog defenders...then you mention Dunta. I bring you an example where I clearly bag on his game there. It's just that we don't have a billion Dunta apologists telling me that I'm insane for saying that. I don't need to counter my own argument there nor do I feel he has huge holes in his game (like I do Carr).

 

[Maddict5]

I guess it largely depends on how you define "a chance to succeed." I think that most people would concur that giving the #1 player in the draft the starting position would the be the only "chance" they need. If they need more than that what was their real value as a #1?

hmmm....look at manning, palmer and nearly any other top qb....what do they have in common?? loads of quality around them.....thats why i believe brady is one of the best qbs ever as he doesnt have as much quality as the other qbs but has comparable success on offence....

 

[Vinny]

hmmm....look at manning, palmer and nearly any other top qb....what do they have in common?? loads of quality around them.....thats why i believe brady is one of the best qbs ever as he doesnt have as much quality as the other qbs but has comparable success on offence....

Manning and Palmer both went to bad teams. Once they were drafted and started to make plays...their teams got better. Magic I think.

 

[GP]

Guess what?!

Another....David.......Carr...........thread.........

 

[hollywood_texan]

I think picking on Dunta is not necessarily appropriate when comparing to Carr. Even a good, or even a great corner, needs the front seven to provide a pass rush for him to do his job effectively. The pass rush was non existent last year. You can't expect a CB to cover a guy forever.

As for the QB position, generally that guy has to make everybody around him better.

You really can't compare the CB and QB positions.

I look at the CB position like a pitcher in baseball. A pitcher needs help on defense and he needs the offense to score runs for him to get a W. A CB really isn't that much different in that respect.

 

[SESupergenius]

You said I don't dog defenders...then you mention Dunta. I bring you an example where I clearly bag on his game there. It's just that we don't have a billion Dunta apologists telling me that I'm insane for saying that. I don't need to counter my own argument there nor do I feel he has huge holes in his game (like I do Carr).

No, I just infered that defensive players don't get nearly the knock on them as Carr has over the past few months considering their unit was just as horrible as his. Simple really, follow along. And bringing in 1 example of of 1 game from a comment you made over 9 months ago hardly even puts a spat on his failures during the season and the attention the defense deserves on this board in being bashed.

 

[tsip]

I'll admit Carr has regressed from the first Cowboys game. You've seen the replays of him stepping up in the pocket and delivering the beutiful deep ball. So the question is why? Maybe because the franchise failed in all areas to support him. Most notably in the areas of coaching and protection. We are learning now that Carr probably learned more at Fresno State than the last four years with the Texans and that the next year will be spent unlearning the bad habits the previous staff allowed to creep into his game.

For whatever reason you didn't like Carr from the beginning. All I know is we are going on half a decade and our "franchise" is finally getting it's act together. 4 years of bad habits don't change overnight. So yes, Carr will still flash bad habits, but hopefully as the season goes on they will show up less and less. Of course, if you never cared much for Carr, his current relearning process presents many opportunities to criticize and say I told you so.

The bottom line is the whole "franchise" has been terrible the last four years. Everyone knows a turnaround for the team won't be immediate, so why should we expect a 180 degree change from Carr in the preseason?

Your'e missing an important point here--every player on this team was affected by Caper's and company but only Carr is being 'put on a pedestal ' to succeed, regardless of whether he shows progress or not. That 'rubs' some people the wrong way and is 'intensified' by some of the talk from Kubiak's camp about 'those who play, stay-those that don't, it's the highway.'

Eventually, there is going to be a 'reckoning' with this now 5 yr old situation, and there could be some 'intense' moments. A lot has been placed on Carr succeeding, regardless of the 'cost' if he fails. For more reasons than one, let's hope that Johnny Unitas inspires Carr in his dreams Sat nite.

 

[SESupergenius]

Manning and Palmer both went to bad teams. Once they were drafted and started to make plays...their teams got better. Magic I think.

Look at the jump Manning took when Mora was fired and Dungy was inserted. Coaching change, and Palmer started on an established team that was 8-8 the season before. Their teams got better when talent was inserted around them.
I guess talent doesn't matter to QB's.

 

[Marcus]

Guess what?!

Another....David.......Carr...........thread.........

I've got a news flash for you gpshafer. Now, you'd better sit down before I give you this news because it might be real tough for you to handle. Are you ready? No? We'll here it is anyway.....

As long as David Carr is giving bad football play, there are going to be more David Carr threads created than anything else. That's just the way it is.

Nobody will want to talk about him anymore if he starts playing good football. Again, that's just the way it is with message boards, so get used to it.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

hmmm....look at manning, palmer and nearly any other top qb....what do they have in common?? loads of quality around them.....thats why i believe brady is one of the best qbs ever as he doesnt have as much quality as the other qbs but has comparable success on offence....

That maybe the strongest retort I have seen ever on this board. Thank you for bringing your mastery to the age old question, "What came first, Carr or poor Quarterbacking?"

 

[humbleone]

We have some great posters on this MB...even those whose opinion I personally disagree with like Vinny regarding DC, I respect and acknowledge that in the end, theirs may actually be proven correct.

What I am simply betting on is this regarding DC... why would Kubiak bet on Carr if it was a bad bet? Of course, he could be wrong about DC, but I for one believe that the smart money is on Kubiak being right about this guy and that Kubes can coach him up to calm down, slow down, go through his progressions and play the way he apparently practices.

This week will be a huge test for DC... but my money is on that he will play well.

 

[cbnjwill]

just want to get your guys thoughts.... will we see sage play against the eagles on sunday

 

[Porky]

No, I just infered that defensive players don't get nearly the knock on them as Carr has over the past few months considering their unit was just as horrible as his. Simple really, follow along. And bringing in 1 example of of 1 game from a comment you made over 9 months ago hardly even puts a spat on his failures during the season and the attention the defense deserves on this board in being bashed.

Apples and oranges in many ways. When Dunta is the #1 overall pick, and plays like dogmeat for 4 years, and is the QB, get back to me.

 

[Vinny]

just want to get your guys thoughts.... will we see sage play against the eagles on sunday

um, no.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

just want to get your guys thoughts.... will we see sage play against the eagles on sunday

Only after the Eagles are on the rotisserie.

 

[Double Barrel]

For some reason, you can pick apart any player on this team, except one. It's not made into a big deal, if you criticize a defensive player, or an offensive linemen. WE all read it, put in our two, and move on.

But talk about one particualar disappointment, based on his play, and you get a 20 page war......... & they say they don't want to talk about it.

No other player touches the ball EVERY play when his squad is on the field (well, except the center, of course). Good or bad, right or wrong, the QB is going to take the glory or the heat, depending on his play and the team's record.

Carr threads are funny.

 

[SESupergenius]

Apples and oranges in many ways. When Dunta is the #1 overall pick, and plays like dogmeat for 4 years, and is the QB, get back to me.

I wouldn't consider Carrs 2004 dog meat, he actually was progressing up until last year. I could see your point if he wasn't making steady progress, but after how horrible most players on this team were and all the offseason moves this year to get rid of players, chalk last year up to bafooness on the management part. Dunta is just an example of several players on the defense that played well under par, and he gets a new pass for this year as well. that is apples to apples.

 

[SESupergenius]

No other player touches the ball EVERY play when his squad is on the field (well, except the center, of course). Good or bad, right or wrong, the QB is going to take the glory or the heat, depending on his play and the team's record.

Carr threads are funny.

Sorry, but the QB touches the ball HALF of the plays, the opposing team's QB touches the other half and torched our defense steadily last year. Carr hands off half the time so really, is that counted as "touches"?

 

[GP]

I've got a news flash for you gpshafer. Now, you'd better sit down before I give you this news because it might be real tough for you to handle. Are you ready? No? We'll here it is anyway.....

As long as David Carr is giving bad football play, there are going to be more David Carr threads created than anything else. That's just the way it is.

Nobody will want to talk about him anymore if he starts playing good football. Again, that's just the way it is with message boards, so get used to it.

Oh, I'm used to it.

You can get used to a lot of things:

Crabs

Hemohroids

Boils on your face and hands

Poor bladder control

An overactive sphincter


I am used to it, but I'd rather see some people talk about something else. Is that too much to ask? Is it too hard to just have ONE David Carr thread as a sticky, and we all mingle in that area?

Heck, just create an entire David Carr forum, for that matter.

But nope, we gotta' have a new David Carr thread every five minutes about what someone said, about what he said, about some new stat we found on David, etc.

Getting pretty old, IMO.

I didn't know David Carr induced short-term memory loss among all the posters here. I mean, excuse me for attacking everyone's personal intellect on a mass communicative level here, but at some point can we just let it go for one day. One day? ONE. Nope. Someone sees the letters D, A, V, I, D or C, A, R, R and it's like Pavlov's bell around here: Ding! Ding! Ding! and everybody rushes to type their opinion on David Carr.

Here's what I say about this, and every other Carr thread to be made in the future:

"We know who likes David. We know who doesn't. We know who thinks David can turn it around. And we know who doesn't. We know that the day is coming that David will either turn it around or not. And until then, perhaps we can all use our short-term memory (as well as our long-term memory) and let it go? I mean, if something fantastically new happens, a real bonified David Carr storyline, then GREAT! let's see it. But the same old, same old...with the same people stating the same mantra, the same stats, and the same come-backs is absurd. It smells of boredom, of the old 'Can't wait until we see some real, live football...I can't stand it...come on kick off!!!!' delimma that I think is going on here."

That's my rant. And I refuse to reply to a David Carr thread with actual football talk because it's all been discussed. It's just old news to me. Archive 3 or 4 really "great" David Carr threads if we need something to use as way to educate new people on how to troll on something for eons.

 

[Runner]

Your'e missing an important point here--every player on this team was affected by Caper's and company but only Carr is being 'put on a pedestal ' to succeed, regardless of whether he shows progress or not. That 'rubs' some people the wrong way and is 'intensified' by some of the talk from Kubiak's camp about 'those who play, stay-those that don't, it's the highway.'

Well said.

 

[Double Barrel]

Sorry, but the QB touches the ball HALF of the plays, the opposing team's QB touches the other half and torched our defense steadily last year. Carr hands off half the time so really, is that counted as "touches"?

Read carefully, and you might understand what I said:

No other player touches the ball EVERY play when his squad is on the field (well, except the center, of course). Good or bad, right or wrong, the QB is going to take the glory or the heat, depending on his play and the team's record.

And yes it counts as touches when he hands off, because he still has to read the defense, make adjustments before the snap, and make sure he gets the ball from the center to the RB in a position for the run to be set up right. I've seen too many QBs fumble at this point and make mistakes during the transition to not hold them accountable.

 

[Maddict5]

Manning and Palmer both went to bad teams. Once they were drafted and started to make plays...their teams got better. Magic I think.

yes they went to bad teams.. but those bad teams surrounded both with quality offensive players early and both teams focused on strengthening their defence after

 

[GP]

yes they went to bad teams.. but those bad teams surrounded both with quality offensive players early and both teams focused on strengthening their defence after

True.

That Cincy team was under Lebeau IIRC. Didn't HE have the team when Palmer was drafted? And then Marvin came in and basically had a fire sale...cleaned house and started bringing in the talent to surround Palmer. I think Palmer is the beneficiary of a great coach who has placed great talent around him. AND has been a top-notch coach, to boot.

Perhaps it can be the same with Kubiak?

 

[SESupergenius]

True.

That Cincy team was under Lebeau IIRC. Didn't HE have the team when Palmer was drafted? And then Marvin came in and basically had a fire sale...cleaned house and started bringing in the talent to surround Palmer. I think Palmer is the beneficiary of a great coach who has placed great talent around him. AND has been a top-notch coach, to boot.

Perhaps it can be the same with Kubiak?

That is the way I view it. Carr is not Manning or Brady, but he may just be servicable enough to be a top 15 quarterback in which the other aspects of our team (defense, special teams, running game, blocking and protection) get better and we become a well balanced team.

 

[Porky]

And yes it counts as touches when he hands off, because he still has to read the defense, make adjustments before the snap, and make sure he gets the ball from the center to the RB in a position for the run to be set up right. I've seen too many QBs fumble at this point and make mistakes during the transition to not hold them accountable.

Yup, and not to mention that the effectiveness of the QB in the passing game, will impact how a defense can play the opposing offense in the running game as well. There is nobody that impacts a teams fortunes like the QB. It's why the QB gets all the glory in the good times, and takes a huge share of the blame during the bad times. It's the nature of the beast, and if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Nice throw in with a salary cap era #1 QB. But whether its his name or Carr's I do not like #1 QB's. However, Manning went through 3-13 and turned out alright. Maybe it is in his DNA.

I agree.

Signed,
Carson Palmer


Maybe it's just me, but I just don't seeing the Sainted Manning or anyone succeeding in the situation we have had over the last four years. And no person ever could have succeeded in last years offense.

I've seen enough good things at the beginning of 2004, and the few moments when Carr had control of the play calling and Kubiak's belief in him, to wait and see.

As for the original subject of the thread, I have a hard time reading anything from Justice without thinking of his pre-draft position that VY can defy the laws of physics and his post draft position that the Texans are stupid dummyheads. So, whatever quotes he picks or the way he poses everything are picked through that filter.

The reality is that Carr's 2005 was poor, and he has had enough poor play over his career that he has no more good will with most of the fan base. There is no patience left. And Carr is statistically a slow starter. And he is in a new system that is supposed to be difficult to master.

He has an uphill battle to learn the offense and to win over the fans. If he succeeds under these conditions, it will be a marvel of coaching and would say a lot about Carr. If he has his typical crap first quarter, it will make booing Santa Claus sound like nothing.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

And Carr is statistically a slow starter.

Nitpicking here, but he is not a strong finisher as well which is surprising given the many prevent defenses in the 4th quarter he has faced in his career.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't seeing the Sainted Manning or anyone succeeding in the situation we have had over the last four years. And no person ever could have succeeded in last years offense.

You are assuming the previous coaching staff would have run the exact same offense and called the exact same plays with Manning. And, no less, the exact same result.

I think the problem with Capers and the previous offensive coaches was that they didn't believe in Carr. Just how I saw it.

Everything has changed on the the offense expect for Andre Johnson and David Carr.

David Carr looks the same as he has always been in the preseason under Kubiak.

 

[SESupergenius]

You guys are dragging me down, I'm actually looking forward to this team since the one we started with last year is light years ahead.

 

[infantrycak]

I think the problem with Capers and the previous offensive coaches was that they didn't believe in Carr. Just how I saw it.

Ehh--don't believe it and doesn't make sense. That is Capers ball. The tracks are there from Carolina thru to overcontrolling Palmer who previously has run more wide open offenses to promoting Pendry to the biggest one of all--HC's don't continue to trot out QB's they have no faith in and make no effort to replace either him or find a decent backup QB with your job on the line when you don't believe in the QB.

 

[Porky]

Ehh--don't believe it and doesn't make sense. That is Capers ball. The tracks are there from Carolina thru to overcontrolling Palmer who previously has run more wide open offenses to promoting Pendry to the biggest one of all--HC's don't continue to trot out QB's they have no faith in and make no effort to replace either him or find a decent backup QB with your job on the line when you don't believe in the QB.

I disagree. I think they dumbed down the offense because Carr couldn't handle what Palmer was trying to implement. Palmer didn't get dumb overnight. Now, we already see quotes from Kubiak indicating that they are going to have to throttle back the offense because why? Because once again, Carr cannot digest a pro offense. I agree with the poster. Her thesis is that no QB would have survived in last years offense, but that is under the assumption that if Payton Manning or Tom Brady had suddenly been transported in the middle of Reliant that everything would have stayed at the status quo. I don't see that.

 

[SESupergenius]

I disagree. I think they dumbed down the offense because Carr couldn't handle what Palmer was trying to implement. Palmer didn't get dumb overnight. Now, we already see quotes from Kubiak indicating that they are going to have to throttle back the offense because why? Because once again, Carr cannot digest a pro offense. I agree with the poster. Her thesis is that no QB would have survived in last years offense, but that is under the assumption that if Payton Manning or Tom Brady had suddenly been transported in the middle of Reliant that everything would have stayed at the status quo. I don't see that.

How much are they throttling back Porky? Didn't Carr run a Pro-style offense at Fresno? How many teams has Palmer been with now? How much of Palmer's offense did Carr know? Please complete your open ended assumptions.

 

[Lucky]

That Cincy team was under Lebeau IIRC. Didn't HE have the team when Palmer was drafted?

That was Marvin Lewis' pick all the way. The Bengals brought in Rogers & Newman for show, but Lewis knew he had something special in Palmer. Plus, he was smart enough to build his O-line before throwing Carson into the fray.

I just want to echo what's been said about Eric Moulds. This is the kind of guy the Texans have so desperately needed. He's a difference maker on the field, and in the locker room. And I wish I had taken him in my fantasy draft (darn you, DB!).

 

[hollywood_texan]

Ehh--don't believe it and doesn't make sense. That is Capers ball. The tracks are there from Carolina thru to overcontrolling Palmer who previously has run more wide open offenses to promoting Pendry to the biggest one of all--HC's don't continue to trot out QB's they have no faith in and make no effort to replace either him or find a decent backup QB with your job on the line when you don't believe in the QB.

Maybe so, but who would have replaced Carr? Think of the guys that were out there because there was no way they were going to draft another QB. You are right about the offensive strategy, but I think even then, they held things back with Carr as simple as the offense was.

Not to mention Capers would have to explain that a pick made a few years earlier was not correct to Bob McNair, and a pick that was the first pick of Franchise no less. Adding to that the Boselli pick in the expansion draft that was a complete disaster that they billed up. Which I don't understand why Boselli being first makes a difference. It was just marketing by the Texans. They could have picked him last in the expansion draft and wouldn't have made any other difference with who they got. That is besides the point.

I believe Capers did not have faith Carr and stayed with him because there really wasn't a better solution in his eyes. Sometimes in life, you are stuck in a no win situation, and I think Capers was in one of those situations. His offensive coaching strategy, coupled with a defense that caved, just made the problem even worse to a 2-14 season.

If you do think Capers believed in Carr, why would he only let Carr audible into a run play?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I'm actually looking forward to this team since the one we started with last year is light years ahead.

Now that is something we can all agree on, present trolls excluded of course.

 

[tsip]

"And he is in a new system that is supposed to be difficult to master."

I believe this depends on the individual person and their decision-making capability. Cutler is having no problem learning the system and Plummer learned pretty quick. The offense is touted as a QB's 'offense,' so I would think the process to learn/execute is favorable for most---

 

[thunderkyss]

hmmm....look at manning, palmer and nearly any other top qb....what do they have in common?? loads of quality around them.....thats why i believe brady is one of the best qbs ever as he doesnt have as much quality as the other qbs but has comparable success on offence....

we're going to see Givens in Tennessee. We'll see about some of the quality players Brady had around him. I'd love to see Reggie Wayne on another team. I'm going to have to watch guys leaving the Colts, the Bengals, and all these other teams with great QBs..... I bet those quality guys are really a little better than average.

I'm not saying Manning & Palmer don't have talent around them. I'm just saying it's not as great as what people think. For instance, and Offensive line is judged, mainly on the number of sacks they give up. While Indy's line can play badly, but still not give up a sack, because Peyton scans the field quickly, decides quickly where the ball should go, and gets the ball there, quickly, even if that means throwing it into the stands.


Reggie Wayne, David Givens, Dallas Clark......... IMHO, all avg......

 

[thunderkyss]

We have some great posters on this MB...even those whose opinion I personally disagree with like Vinny regarding DC, I respect and acknowledge that in the end, theirs may actually be proven correct.

What I am simply betting on is this regarding DC... why would Kubiak bet on Carr if it was a bad bet? Of course, he could be wrong about DC, but I for one believe that the smart money is on Kubiak being right about this guy and that Kubes can coach him up to calm down, slow down, go through his progressions and play the way he apparently practices.

This week will be a huge test for DC... but my money is on that he will play well.

That's another question alltogether.

I think David is playing better(in the preseason) than he did in the regular season last year..... I think Kubiak is making progress with him.

others like Vinny don't see it.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

I still think people are going to be surprised. I was viewing the videos on this Web site and Moulds so much as said we were hiding our offense in the preseason. If you watch the interviews with Carr you get the feeling that there's a surprise coming. May be I'm wrong, but I think the Eagles are in for a surprise. I know Moulds said he will even line up at RB sometimes. That certainly doesn't sound like the normal offense to me.

Carr has been getting better as the game wears on. Part of that is the coaching staff adjusting to what the other defense is doing. In the past our staff worked and worked and worked to come out quick at the start of the game. Actually they were successful on a number of occasions, but when the other team adapted we were lost. With Kubiak its the opposite. He adapts and then you better watch out.

 

[Vinny]

That's another question alltogether.

I think David is playing better(in the preseason) than he did in the regular season last year..... I think Kubiak is making progress with him.

others like Vinny don't see it.

see what? Other than underneath stuff, hitch passes, dump passes, fumbles and short tosses...exactly what do you see?

 

[Wolf]

I wasn't overly impressed with Carr's game in preseason, yet I understand that we are running vanilla offense and they are running a vanila defense.

Kubiak said it best, he is going to put players in position to suceed and I think the bootlegs and such will help Carr and his game. having legit TE's are going to help Carr with his game.


He has to learn to trust his teammates(and viceversa) and make the right reads

 

[Ibar_Harry]

see what? Other than underneath stuff, hitch passes, dump passes, fumbles and short tosses...exactly what do you see?

I understand how you feel Vinny, but Moulds may have let the cat out of the bag. Apparently, we haven't been showing much and the real offense will be seen this weekend. Will that be the case? Your guess is as good as mine. I keep saying something is up, but may be I'm reading the tea leaves wrong. We shall see. May be Carr will give you some reason for optomissim.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I understand how you feel Vinny, but Moulds may have let the cat out of the bag. Apparently, we haven't been showing much and the real offense will be seen this weekend. Will that be the case? Your guess is as good as mine. I keep saying something is up, but may be I'm reading the tea leaves wrong. We shall see. May be Carr will give you some reason for optomissim.

Well Sage looked more relaxed in the vanilla offense . Its not Carr's prodution nearly as its the rattled look he has . It may be the Texans fault or Vinny's but he's not comfortable .

 

[thunderkyss]

True.

That Cincy team was under Lebeau IIRC. Didn't HE have the team when Palmer was drafted? And then Marvin came in and basically had a fire sale...cleaned house and started bringing in the talent to surround Palmer. I think Palmer is the beneficiary of a great coach who has placed great talent around him. AND has been a top-notch coach, to boot.

Perhaps it can be the same with Kubiak?

Marvin Lewis Drafts:2005
Round Player College Games/Starts 2006 Status
1 David Pollack Georgia 14/5 Starter
2 Odell Thurman Georgia 16/15 Starter
3 Chris Henry West Virginia 14/5 Backup
4 Eric Ghiaciuc Central Michigan 5/1 Backup
5 Adam Kieft Central Michigan 0/0 Backup
6 Tab Perry UCLA 16/0 Backup
7 Jonathan Fanene Utah 3/1 Backup

2004
Round Player College Games/Starts 2006 Status
1 RB Chris Perry Michigan 16/2 Backup
2 CB Keiwan Ratliff Florida 32/7 Possible Starter
2 S Madieu Williams Maryland 20/16 Starter
3 LB Caleb Miller Arkansas 20/3 Backup
3 LB Landon Johnson Purdue 32/21 Backup
4 DT Matthias Askew Michigan State 6/0 Backup
4 DE Robert Geathers Georgia 30/17 Starter
4 T Stacy Andrews Mississippi 14/0 Backup
5 WR Maurice Mann Nevada 0/0 Released
6 CB Greg Brooks Southern Mississippi 11/0 Backup
7 QB Casey Bramlet Wyoming 0/0 Released

2003
1 QB Carson Palmer USC 29/29 Starter
2 LG Eric Steinbach Iowa 47/46 Starter
3 WR Kelley Washinton Tennessee 39/5 Backup
4 CB Dennis Weathersby Oregon State 4/0 Released
4 FB Jeremi Johnson Western Kentucky 48/30 Starter
5 OLB Khalid Abdullah Mars Hill 16/0 Released
6 DT Langston Moore South Carolina 15/8 Released
7 OL Scott Kooistra North Carolina St. 39/1 Backup
7 DE Elton Patterson Central Florida 0/0 Released

Yeah, you can see how much talent Marvin Lewis has put around Carson Palmer. in 2004 & 2003, he has drafted 9 offensive players with 21 picks. So he used 2/3 of his picks on defense.

Of the 9 offensive picks, 3 are starters. 2 were released, 3 backups, and 1 possible starter.

T.J.Houshmandzadeh was drafted in 2001, caught for 228 yards in 12 games in 2001, 492 yards in 16 games in 2002, sat out more or less in 2003, Then like magic, 978 yards in 16 games in 2004, & 958 yards in 12 games in 2005.

Chad Johnson was drafted in 2001, caught 329 yards in 12 games in 2001, 1166 yards in 16 games in 2002, 1355 yards in 16 games in 2003, 1274 yards in 16 games in 2004, and 1432 yards in 16 games in 2005. 1 TD in 2001, 2 TDs in 2002, 10 TDs in 2003, and 9 touchdowns in both 2004, and 2005. CJ is just special though........ he's the real deal.

 

[PoolMaster21]

We have some great posters on this MB...even those whose opinion I personally disagree with like Vinny regarding DC, I respect and acknowledge that in the end, theirs may actually be proven correct.

What I am simply betting on is this regarding DC... why would Kubiak bet on Carr if it was a bad bet? Of course, he could be wrong about DC, but I for one believe that the smart money is on Kubiak being right about this guy and that Kubes can coach him up to calm down, slow down, go through his progressions and play the way he apparently practices.

This week will be a huge test for DC... but my money is on that he will play well.

This is an intriguing point. Kubiak is probably the only person in Houston who is impartial regarding DC. Kubiak must have studied 4 years worth of film as the basis of his decision to recommend keeping DC. As the new guy he's putting his reputation on the line, trusting that DC can thrive in a new system - nobody would have faulted Kubiak from dumping Carr and starting over with someone new. This doesn't mean Kubiak is right, it just means that he's definitely seen something positive in DC. I only hope we get to see it on the field and on the scoreboard sometime soon.

 

[tsip]

I still think people are going to be surprised. I was viewing the videos on this Web site and Moulds so much as said we were hiding our offense in the preseason. If you watch the interviews with Carr you get the feeling that there's a surprise coming. May be I'm wrong, but I think the Eagles are in for a surprise. I know Moulds said he will even line up at RB sometimes. That certainly doesn't sound like the normal offense to me.

Carr has been getting better as the game wears on. Part of that is the coaching staff adjusting to what the other defense is doing. In the past our staff worked and worked and worked to come out quick at the start of the game. Actually they were successful on a number of occasions, but when the other team adapted we were lost. With Kubiak its the opposite. He adapts and then you better watch out.

...yep, I think you're in for a surprise!