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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

Corrosion said:
The sample size is not a huge one, as I said above, normally he had all day to throw - he did have a stellar OL, three dudes that should go in the top 75 picks, including arguably the top OT blocking for him & a first round WR to throw to.

But the fact is that he struggled when he was under pressure.
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No questioning Head Coach Ryan Day? Which filtered down to his OC Kevin Wilson, left to become Tulsa Head Coach. Someone had to take the fall, you know better than most how coaching carousel revolves :turtle:
 
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DocBar said:
PFF can be all over the place. Sometimes I agree with them, sometimes I don't. Most NFL and some FBS teams are paying customers, so there must be something going right there. Nothing is 100% accurate in grading players, but PFF can be a useful tool to help.
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Isn’t DeMeco seriously trying to pull Bobby Slowik off 49er staff as OC? In his bio, worked @ PFF.
 
Corrosion said:
That's why I have Hooker at the top of my list.

He was back there making quicker decisions while Stroud & Young were standing back there throwing to open guys with all day to throw more often than not. They both showed they can make all the throws and run around off script but they weren't forced to make rapid decisions.

Then there's the fact that Stroud was statistically one of the worst QB's in the entire NCAA when under pressure. That's a no go for me.
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How would you feel about Hyatt at 1-12 and Hooker at 2-32? Knowing that Hooker probably isn't going to play much if at all next yr and is going to be 25 soon? Heck draft Tillman at 4-103 and keep the band together. Trade Collins.
 
Corrosion said:
The sample size is not a huge one, as I said above, normally he had all day to throw - he did have a stellar OL, three dudes that should go in the top 75 picks, including arguably the top OT blocking for him & a first round WR to throw to.

But the fact is that he struggled when he was under pressure.
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That's my biggest knock on Stroud.
beerlover said:
Isn’t DeMeco seriously trying to pull Bobby Slowik off 49er staff as OC? In his bio, worked @ PFF.
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I believe he is.
 
vtech9 said:
1-12 Cody Mauch C/OG- North Dakota St. - I like him, but he is a late 1st at best, but most likely a 2nd round pick. 1.12 is too high for him. If we can trade down from 1.12 to 1.24 or so, I'd be ok with the value.

2-33 Kayshon Boutte WR- LSU - Not a fan, but he will probably be available in the 4th, so 2.34 is way too high for him.

2-46 Mazi Smith NT- Michigan - He's expected to go later, but I would be ok with taking him at this point. I like this kid, and I'd be afraid I'd miss out on him if we wait until the 3rd.

3-64 B.J. Thompson DE- SFA - I like him, but he was expected to be a late round pick or an UDFA. I think he rose his stock at the Senior Bowl, but not into the 3rd.
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Mauch- some call him a reach, some also called Marpet a reach and he should've been drafted in the 2nd rd.

Boutte- if healthy, both mentally/physically is the top WR in this draft. Doubt he makes it out of the 2nd. The Bears might even pick him at 2-32. If he makes it to 4-103 that would be awesome. The talent is there though. I'm betting on another great WR from LSU.

Smith- He's going to test great at the combine. He's got Wilfork type athletic ability. (Not saying he's going to be Wilfork) Could rival Anderson for best DT in this draft. Guys with his size and athletic ability dont last until the 3rd rd, particularly in this weak draft. In fact I wouldn't be opposed to solving the Texans DT issues for the next 5-10 yrs by picking both Anderson and Smith. It's what the 49ers did picking Armstead and Buckner and then traded Buckner for a kings ransom and picked Kinlaw in the 1st rd. Smith is a top 50 guy IMHO.

Thompson I have going at 4-103, Some thing that may be a reach, but after a yr in a NFL S&C program I think he can be a top level player. As of right now he's a situational pass rusher. He's got great speed and quickness off of the ball. I definitely can see how you would think he's a reach. But he's one of my guys and I would rather take one of my guys a rd too early than hoping he falls to the 5th and losing out on him. In famous RS fashion.
 
Porky said:
Bryce is too small at roughly 6ft and 195 (TBD). Yet, some of you like Zay Flowers, Jalin Hyatt, or Tank Dell at WR. All way smaller than Bryce, at a position that takes way more abuse and punishment than an NFL QB does. I understand that QB is the more important role...but still.

As for me, Bryce is my #1 guy. I think he's got a good shot to be special. Stroud is a notch or two behind on my scorecard but I'd be good with him as well. I see good to very good...but not truly special with Stroud. That said, I could see him making a Justin Herbert like impact/comp which would be great.

There's not a lot of comp's on Bryce due to size. Russell Wilson is the closest I have. I don't like the Kyler Murray comp. Just because Murray is a slighter guy doesn't mean their game is the same. It's not. Bryce is the far superior prospect IMHO.

But I'm all in right now on DeMeco. If he went with Will Anderson at 1.2 and passed on both, I'm ok with it because I trust his judgment after consulting Nick and the scouts. Same if they take Stroud over Young. I'm good with that too. I'd be less enthused by Carter, but right now I'm riding the Meco train. It's ride or die for me. Unless they trade out of the spot, 90% chance it's one of those four guys. Plenty of time to argue which of the 4 you like.
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Normally a WR is usually being tackled by a guy the same size or smaller than he is. He usually isn't being mauled by a DT or a DE
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I’ve not seen a lot of Bama’s games, but based on his size…..does Anderson’s size make him a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE (does he have the size to lineup as a DE?) or does he lineup as a 4-3 OLB?

Personally, if Anderson was the RD1-02 pick….he’s going to be OLB in Ryans 4-3 defense. That means the Texans would be looking for a DE. Wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all if DE, Tyree Wilson was still on the board at RD1-12 and the Texans made him the pick. To finish a defense like this…..they’re still going to need an ILB and SS to round this unit out for the 2023 season. This could quickly become a defensive focused draft out of the gate.
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Hopefully the rumors of signing Edmunds in FA are true and Ryans brings Jimmy Ward with him from the 49ers.
 
steelbtexan said:
How would you feel about Hyatt at 1-12 and Hooker at 2-32? Knowing that Hooker probably isn't going to play much if at all next yr and is going to be 25 soon? Heck draft Tillman at 4-103 and keep the band together. Trade Collins.
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I think Hyatt at 12 is a bit early. He's the 5th or 6th WR, 35th or so overall?
Maybe after a trade back to the tail end of the round? Who knows, this could all change after the combine.

Hooker at 2-32 is probably about right but like I told you the other night, I heard he would be ready to go by training camp so it's possible he plays this year.
I'm not too concerned about his age - He was both accurate & good under pressure as well as able to get thru reads.
 
Corrosion said:
That's why I have Hooker at the top of my list.

He was back there making quicker decisions while Stroud & Young were standing back there throwing to open guys with all day to throw more often than not. They both showed they can make all the throws and run around off script but they weren't forced to make rapid decisions.

Then there's the fact that Stroud was statistically one of the worst QB's in the entire NCAA when under pressure. That's a no go for me.
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So Hooker was throwing to beer cans? He also has a top pick at LT
 
Corrosion said:
Mine too .... even if the sample size is not huge, it's still kinda alarming.

If he couldn't handle the pressure in his face in the NCAA what reason do we have to believe he can do it in the NFL where everything happens faster.

It's just a huge red flag to me ...
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Honestly, Stroud's MO sounds a lot like Davis Mills: Traditional pocket passer, similar build + arm strength, doesn't make a ton of plays out of structure and not especially mobile. Struggles under pressure. I guess you can say Stroud is a more refined passer and has a bit more arm talent, but not seeing a ton of difference here. Some videos also clearly note Stround having trouble when making throws away from his primary read, which is exactly what Mills had issues with.

Mills problem isn't making throws in a clean pocket - it's all the pressure and off-platform stuff. So why would we go get a guy similar (if not slightly more potential) than the guy we're trying to get rid of? Makes no sense to me. We're going to get a similar result with Stroud than we have now unless the line/surrounding talent become a lot better. But if it does, Mills would probably do a lot better too.

Young or high-end developmental QB seems to be the play at this juncture. Or also fine just going full build-team mode with an eye to QB 2024 also and letting Ryans build a killer defense.
 
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Corrosion said:
That's why I have Hooker at the top of my list.

He was back there making quicker decisions while Stroud & Young were standing back there throwing to open guys with all day to throw more often than not. They both showed they can make all the throws and run around off script but they weren't forced to make rapid decisions.

Then there's the fact that Stroud was statistically one of the worst QB's in the entire NCAA when under pressure. That's a no go for me.
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From my understanding of Josh Heupel's Tenn offense there really isn't much in the way of complex progression decision making. The WR's actually make the initial read based off the DB's coverage, the QB then just looks for the open space to throw into or to run himself. Even more than that half the field is often 'dead' with those receivers essentially inactive. Meanwhile of the two 'live' receivers only one is designated the 'tag' who's the only intended target on the play, with the nearest receiver to him running a sort of interference route to clear coverage away.

So basically Hooker takes the snap knowing who his target is on one side of the field, waits for the WR to make the read and declare his route, then he either throws to him or begins to run to improvise or gain ground with his legs. Idk, doesn't sound like he was inundated with decision making, and it certainly sounds like a pretty tough translation to the pro game.
 
steelbtexan said:
Mauch- some call him a reach, some also called Marpet a reach and he should've been drafted in the 2nd rd.

Boutte- if healthy, both mentally/physically is the top WR in this draft. Doubt he makes it out of the 2nd. The Bears might even pick him at 2-32. If he makes it to 4-103 that would be awesome. The talent is there though. I'm betting on another great WR from LSU.

Smith- He's going to test great at the combine. He's got Wilfork type athletic ability. (Not saying he's going to be Wilfork) Could rival Anderson for best DT in this draft. Guys with his size and athletic ability dont last until the 3rd rd, particularly in this weak draft. In fact I wouldn't be opposed to solving the Texans DT issues for the next 5-10 yrs by picking both Anderson and Smith. It's what the 49ers did picking Armstead and Buckner and then traded Buckner for a kings ransom and picked Kinlaw in the 1st rd. Smith is a top 50 guy IMHO.

Thompson I have going at 4-103, Some thing that may be a reach, but after a yr in a NFL S&C program I think he can be a top level player. As of right now he's a situational pass rusher. He's got great speed and quickness off of the ball. I definitely can see how you would think he's a reach. But he's one of my guys and I would rather take one of my guys a rd too early than hoping he falls to the 5th and losing out on him. In famous RS fashion.
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I really need to start keeping track of your predictions vs reality. I just don't have the interest or energy. In reality, it's meaningless because your predictions vs reality tend to end up abysmally wrong.
 
Lucky said:
OK. But some of the "not pressured a lot" has to be given to the QB for making his read and getting the ball out on time. That's why this isn't as easy as quoting a number from a web site. There has to be context with everything.
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Numbers?

You can make numbers say anything you want them to say.

Truth is Stroud wasn't good under pressure.
 
michaelm said:
General question for you draftniks, as I don't follow closely enough to know this answer.

If Bijan is there at 1.12, what number of scenarios, if any, would he not be BPA, regardless of team needs?
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I propose Bijan and solidify that the more i think on what i believe will occur this off season and that applies to all players. Slowik will be OC even if Shanny may promote him in SF. We get QB, an added incentive, and i expect Slow already cramming info to offer his 2 cents which one.

An exciting weapon that moves chains & scores. That's not a center or edge or DL. We can get RB/WR day 2 also OC our second greatest dire need.

Skoronski is just so good and can play all spots including C imo as he did high school. Hard to overlook but I'm ruling him out though could change my mind. He would be BPA over Johnston but not by much.

I want 2 RBs and 2 WRs that will rachet up the O pleasing fans and advertisers.
 
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ben.aires.smith said:
Honestly, Stroud's MO sounds a lot like Davis Mills: Traditional pocket passer, similar build + arm strength, doesn't make a ton of plays out of structure and not especially mobile. Struggles under pressure. I guess you can say Stroud is a more refined passer and has a bit more arm talent, but not seeing a ton of difference here. Some videos also clearly note Stround having trouble when making throws away from his primary read, which is exactly what Mills had issues with.

Mills problem isn't making throws in a clean pocket - it's all the pressure and off-platform stuff. So why would we go get a guy similar (if not slightly more potential) than the guy we're trying to get rid of? Makes no sense to me. We're going to get a similar result with Stroud than we have now unless the line/surrounding talent become a lot better. But if it does, Mills would probably do a lot better too.

Young or high-end developmental QB seems to be the play at this juncture. Or also fine just going full build-team mode with an eye to QB 2024 also and letting Ryans build a killer defense.
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Watch the game against Georgia. Why is that game important? The skill level of the opponent and NFL types on the field. Stroud was absolutely tremendous against the best defense in college football. What makes it more impressive is that he was prepared and didn't not panic against that defense. People say "his pressure stats". That game showed that he can prepare against a great pass rush, on the biggest stage and perform. Imagine with a good OC in the NFL can do with him full-time.

 
DocBar said:
I really need to start keeping track of your predictions vs reality. I just don't have the interest or energy. In reality, it's meaningless because your predictions vs reality tend to end up abysmally wrong.
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Reality is I was one of the few that liked Mahomes.

You can surely remember this.

BTW, Remember this for later, I like Hyatt and Musgrave alot as playmakers. My favorite IOL in this draft (I haven't studied the OT's) are Mauch/Schmitz/Avila. Bookmark this post and let's revisit it in 3-4 yrs.
 
Mr.Scarface said:
Watch the game against Georgia. Why is that game important? The skill level of the opponent and NFL types on the field. Stroud was absolutely tremendous against the best defense in college football. What makes it more impressive is that he was prepared and didn't not panic against that defense. People say "his pressure stats". That game showed that he can prepare against a great pass rush, on the biggest stage and perform. Imagine with a good OC in the NFL can do with him full-time.

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Great that he played well against an elite college team to close the season. But you have to give more value to the totality of his play throughout the season, and in 2021. So the pressure knock is going to remain right up until the draft. At least we know he can play well in big games... well excluding Michigan that is.
 
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steelbtexan said:
How would you feel about Hyatt at 1-12 and Hooker at 2-32? Knowing that Hooker probably isn't going to play much if at all next yr and is going to be 25 soon? Heck draft Tillman at 4-103 and keep the band together. Trade Collins.
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With Hooker's injury, he'll fall to the 3rd round if not the 4th.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Great that he played well against an elite college team to close the season. But you have to give more value to the totality of his play throughout the season, and in 2021. So the pressure knock is going to remain right up until the draft. At least we knock he can play well in big games... well excluding Michigan that is.
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85 TDs, 12 INTs for his Career at OSU. 69.3 comp%. 11.2 yards/per attempt. 8123 yards. That is the totality of his play. The pressure knock is dumb. 22-4 as a starter (including bowls).

2022 Rose Bowl vs Utah.

 
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Mollywhopper said:
From my understanding of Josh Heupel's Tenn offense there really isn't much in the way of complex progression decision making. The WR's actually make the initial read based off the DB's coverage, the QB then just looks for the open space to throw into or to run himself. Even more than that half the field is often 'dead' with those receivers essentially inactive. Meanwhile of the two 'live' receivers only one is designated the 'tag' who's the only intended target on the play, with the nearest receiver to him running a sort of interference route to clear coverage away.

So basically Hooker takes the snap knowing who his target is on one side of the field, waits for the WR to make the read and declare his route, then he either throws to him or begins to run to improvise or gain ground with his legs. Idk, doesn't sound like he was inundated with decision making, and it certainly sounds like a pretty tough translation to the pro game.
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I was just going to ask Corrosion same. Pre ACL I was all in on Hook but this type evaluation slows me. Slowik and the right Oline and WRs should do well with adjusting Hook to WCO.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
Great that he played well against an elite college team to close the season. But you have to give more value to the totality of his play throughout the season, and in 2021. So the pressure knock is going to remain right up until the draft. At least we know he can play well in big games... well excluding Michigan that is.
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It has been said that Ohio State coaches opened up and allowed Stroud to 'risk' more and he looked exceptionally well vs Georgia. What a different QB in that game.
 
steelbtexan said:
Mauch- some call him a reach, some also called Marpet a reach and he should've been drafted in the 2nd rd.

Boutte- if healthy, both mentally/physically is the top WR in this draft. Doubt he makes it out of the 2nd. The Bears might even pick him at 2-32. If he makes it to 4-103 that would be awesome. The talent is there though. I'm betting on another great WR from LSU.

Smith- He's going to test great at the combine. He's got Wilfork type athletic ability. (Not saying he's going to be Wilfork) Could rival Anderson for best DT in this draft. Guys with his size and athletic ability dont last until the 3rd rd, particularly in this weak draft. In fact I wouldn't be opposed to solving the Texans DT issues for the next 5-10 yrs by picking both Anderson and Smith. It's what the 49ers did picking Armstead and Buckner and then traded Buckner for a kings ransom and picked Kinlaw in the 1st rd. Smith is a top 50 guy IMHO.

Thompson I have going at 4-103, Some thing that may be a reach, but after a yr in a NFL S&C program I think he can be a top level player. As of right now he's a situational pass rusher. He's got great speed and quickness off of the ball. I definitely can see how you would think he's a reach. But he's one of my guys and I would rather take one of my guys a rd too early than hoping he falls to the 5th and losing out on him. In famous RS fashion.
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At 1.12, I'm hoping for one of the DE's (Tyree Wilson or Myles Murphy) or WR Quentin Johnston. If we can't get one of them, I'd like a trade down to the mid 20's and take Torrence if he's there. If not, I'd take Mauch.

Boutte is about the 16th rated WR in this draft. He's not a 2nd round pick. He's most likely a 4th rounder.

Mazi Smith - I'm good with reaching a little for him, because I just like that kid. He's big, strong, and athletic. Anderson is a DE not a DT. If we could get Carter at 1.2 and rotate him with Collins, and get Mazi Smith in the 2nd or 3rd to rotate with Lopez or Hinish, we'd have a dominate DL for a long time.
 
badboy said:
It has been said that Ohio State coaches opened up and allowed Stroud to 'risk' more and he looked exceptionally well vs Georgia. What a different QB in that game.
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Exactly. But still say “Stroud under pressure a huge red flag” give me a freaking break (say good looking, smart, well educated, know it alls).
 
vtech9 said:
At 1.12, I'm hoping for one of the DE's (Tyree Wilson or Myles Murphy) or WR Quentin Johnston. If we can't get one of them, I'd like a trade down to the mid 20's and take Torrence if he's there. If not, I'd take Mauch.

Boutte is about the 16th rated WR in this draft. He's not a 2nd round pick. He's most likely a 4th rounder.

Mazi Smith - I'm good with reaching a little for him, because I just like that kid. He's big, strong, and athletic. Anderson is a DE not a DT. If we could get Carter at 1.2 and rotate him with Collins, and get Mazi Smith in the 2nd or 3rd to rotate with Lopez or Hinish, we'd have a dominate DL for a long time.
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I meant Carter,

Like I said I've got different rankings than most.

Dont think Wilson makes it to 1-12, dont want Murphy.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Wow a small sample size out of two years. The lows some fans would go too to knock certain players.
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Stroud is still the second graded QB prospect when you tally all the draft boards.

With his size, he would have been number one had he been more consistent under pressure.

There's no conspiracy here.

CJ Stroud would have won more games for the Texans last year (especially if he had had a year to adapt to the speed of the NFL like Mills did).

But when you evaluate the QB prospects, you have to scrutinize everything.

It's a tough choice between Bryce and C.J.
 
Just watched a video of this Devon Witherspoon. Seems like a really good football player. Seems like the type of player who succeeds.

Where is he projected to go range-wise?
 
76Texan said:
Stroud is still the second graded QB prospect when you tally all the draft boards.

With his size, he would have been number one had he been more consistent under pressure.

There's no conspiracy here.

CJ Stroud would have won more games for the Texans last year (especially if he had had a year to adapt to the speed of the NFL like Mills did).

But when you evaluate the QB prospects, you have to scrutinize everything.

It's a tough choice between Bryce and C.J.
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That is why Bijan is the best player with all the check marks for what will be a game changer for us
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Just watched a video of this Devon Witherspoon. Seems like a really good football player. Seems like the type of player who succeeds.

Where is he projected to go range-wise?
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anywhere from 6 to 15 in the first round. Witherspoon and Christian Gonzalez are a flip for the first CB off the board.
 
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ghostlight said:
That is why Bijan is the best player with all the check marks for what will be a game changer for us
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More tough calls.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The thing is, with the NFL becoming more of a show, the passing game is more of an entertainment value.

I used to love a low scoring game against the Steelers.
I did really love how hard to gain yards back then.
The rules did not promote passing.

But things change, in the name of entertainment.

I know you're an old timer, and I've always appreciate your take.
 
steelbtexan said:
How would you feel about Hyatt at 1-12 and Hooker at 2-32? Knowing that Hooker probably isn't going to play much if at all next yr and is going to be 25 soon? Heck draft Tillman at 4-103 and keep the band together. Trade Collins.
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I just read an article that mentioned Hooker could be ready by opening of NFL camps. He was injured and had surgery in November…..might be about 8 months.
 
Corrosion said:
I think Hyatt at 12 is a bit early. He's the 5th or 6th WR, 35th or so overall?
Maybe after a trade back to the tail end of the round? Who knows, this could all change after the combine.

Hooker at 2-32 is probably about right but like I told you the other night, I heard he would be ready to go by training camp so it's possible he plays this year.
I'm not too concerned about his age - He was both accurate & good under pressure as well as able to get thru reads.
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When WR’s run the 40 and do the vertical at the Combine and/or their Pro Day…..it’s going to have an impact and shuffle the current rankings.

If Johnston pops a low to high 4.3-40….he immediately becomes the consensus #1 WR. If Hyatt pops a high 4.2-40….he’s moving up as well, maybe to #2 WR in the draft. If Hyatt runs a really low 4.4-40, it probably makes him available in RD2 or RD3. This wouldn’t sway me at all b/c his suited up game speed takes the top off defenses at will.
 
Mollywhopper said:
From my understanding of Josh Heupel's Tenn offense there really isn't much in the way of complex progression decision making. The WR's actually make the initial read based off the DB's coverage, the QB then just looks for the open space to throw into or to run himself. Even more than that half the field is often 'dead' with those receivers essentially inactive. Meanwhile of the two 'live' receivers only one is designated the 'tag' who's the only intended target on the play, with the nearest receiver to him running a sort of interference route to clear coverage away.

So basically Hooker takes the snap knowing who his target is on one side of the field, waits for the WR to make the read and declare his route, then he either throws to him or begins to run to improvise or gain ground with his legs. Idk, doesn't sound like he was inundated with decision making, and it certainly sounds like a pretty tough translation to the pro game.
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Very few CFB QB’s run true Pro Style offenses. It’s pass fast system in CFB. Mahomes made a nice transition from TT’s offense to Reid’s KC offense after a season of clipboard duty. Reid made his success possible by being flexible himself.

Burrough also came from a high flying passing attack at LSU and transitioned nicely in the Bengals system b/c they made it a priority to get him WR weapons….maybe the best receiving group in the NFL.

Hooker has the physical tools, is solid in the pocket, and has the ability to make defenses pay with his legs. He has a nice and quick throwing motion as well.

Hooker will probably be ready by WK1 at the earliest or WK4 at the latest.
 
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SnakeEyes said:
Cal hired Culley and Lovie. The 1st actual HC that Caserio picked, with a vote from Cal no question is Meco. If you go back and look, CnD verified that Caserio hadn't made HIS 1st HC hire with either one (Culley or Lovie). And he got the information from someone that works with the Texans. Making it likely the most trusted information we have on that situation.
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You’re missing the point. None of the previous GMs were involved with the coaching search. Nick is the 1st to conduct a search. Nick is the 1st to conduct interviews.

Regardless what you want to believe about who hired who, things are changing on Kirby.
 
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