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2019 Texans by the Numbers

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
This is from Weston at BRB. Pretty eye-opening. The one that really struck me was the minuscule improvement on the offensive line, especially considering the cost.

Another surprising number is just how ineffective O’Brien’s scheme turned Hopkins into.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
This is from Weston at BRB. Pretty eye-opening. The one that really struck me was the minuscule improvement on the offensive line, especially considering the cost.

Another surprising number is just how ineffective O’Brien’s scheme turned Hopkins into.
Holy crap so much data!! So many outliers!! Interesting that the Deshaun Watson Regression Hypothesis wasnt touched on at length?? Hmm. Maybe the next article.

LOL @ "Martin is better than Clowney"
LOL @ "the offensive line is better"
LOL @ "this team was great because of Bill OBrien"

So many narratives shot down by statistics! Nerds for the win again!!
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
Holy crap so much data!! So many outliers!! Interesting that the Deshaun Watson Regression Hypothesis wasnt touched on at length?? Hmm. Maybe the next article.

LOL @ "Martin is better than Clowney"
LOL @ "the offensive line is better"
LOL @ "this team was great because of Bill OBrien"

So many narratives shot down by statistics! Nerds for the win again!!
“Doesn’t matter Brian, AFC South Champions two years in a row Brian”
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Same garbage parroted out every year by the same nerds who have no real context &/or very little understanding for how much the flow of games & seasons. Match ups matter. When and where you catch your opponent in a season matters...Those things aren't quantifiable though....so its an easy thing to sit back & throw out numbers without good solid context.

Mostly everything he lists as a negative for the offense and team (winning close ball games, toughest schedule in the league, great on 3rd down) would be seen as a feather in their cap or would be brushed off completely if they'd gone deeper in the playoffs or were enjoyable watch on offense...Then all you'd hear is things like "they just find a way to get it done.." lol. Thought it was funny how he also talks about how Nuk was being used and states how the Texans offense should be led by their deep passing game....all the while trying to downplay the significance of Will Fuller's impact.."Stills is 90% of what Will Fuller is" lol...If only it was explained away that easy.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
But if those nerds would’ve wrote something that aligns up with your narrative Tex. You would be singing another note.

Great find banned 1976. These nerds were spot on.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
Same garbage parroted out every year by the same nerds who have no real context &/or very little understanding for how much the flow of games & seasons. Match ups matter. When and where you catch your opponent in a season matters...Those things aren't quantifiable though....so its an easy thing to sit back & throw out numbers without good solid context.

Mostly everything he lists as a negative for the offense and team (winning close ball games, toughest schedule in the league, great on 3rd down) would be seen as a feather in their cap or would be brushed off completely if they'd gone deeper in the playoffs or were enjoyable watch on offense...Then all you'd hear is things like "they just find a way to get it done.." lol. Thought it was funny how he also talks about how Nuk was being used and states how the Texans offense should be led by their deep passing game....all the while trying to downplay the significance of Will Fuller's impact.."Stills is 90% of what Will Fuller is" lol...If only it was explained away that easy.
Matt Weston Twitter
@Mbw987
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
But if those nerds would’ve wrote something that aligns up with your narrative Tex. You would be singing another note.

Great find banned 1976. These nerds were spot on.
I don’t roll like that brother. I make my own conclusions, I don’t parrot what the talking heads do.
 

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
I believe we all come up with our on conclusions on things brother. But we’re all guilty of using different outlets that concur with our conclusions.

Truer than true ! We all have our own set of measures for success. Nearly 60 years ago, they started telling me .... "Don't overthink it .... it's just running, blocking, and tackling"! Truth is, it has so many measurables, and immeasurables .... you're naturally drawn to the thoughts and opinions of someone that sees things as you see things. I thought that guy's article was informative and well-researched .... just not in complete agreement with some of my own conclusions !! Constructive disagreement is healthy - maybe necessary ! Ain't it fun ?
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I believe we all come up with our on conclusions on things brother. But we’re all guilty of using different outlets that concur with our conclusions.
what could anyone take issue with within that article? It was all supported and sourced perfectly. No tinge of subjectivity. Just a data driven piece to verify what many felt were hasty generalizations. It was marvelous.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Truer than true ! We all have our own set of measures for success. Nearly 60 years ago, they started telling me .... "Don't overthink it .... it's just running, blocking, and tackling"! Truth is, it has so many measurables, and immeasurables .... you're naturally drawn to the thoughts and opinions of someone that sees things as you see things. I thought that guy's article was informative and well-researched .... just not in complete agreement with some of my own conclusions !! Constructive disagreement is healthy - maybe necessary ! Ain't it fun ?
Well that's the problem right there. The "immeasurables" play a much larger role in how NFL teams operate than they do in other sports. Getting a game at home in a dome vs. having to go on the road & play in the elements matters to an offense/defense/team. Catching a team on Thursday night that's still recovering from the beating their bodies took just 4 days prior as opposed to getting those extra 3 days to study and recover matters in how an offense/defense and team performs. Playing a team at the beginning of the season when their star qb was out injured or hobbled matters as opposed to catching that same team later in the year in their place in the elements when their star qb is healthy (KC v Houston).

Those things aren't quantifiable but factor huge in the amazingly short season of the NFL and the 1 and done nature of the NFL playoffs. So when a guy says "Kenny Stills is 90% of what WFV is" he's clearly dismissing those immeasurables & is basically saying that those things don't matter as much & they matter a great deal.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
One thing people could "take issue with" is that the article and all its facts meant the Texans should have won 7.8 games, but they won 10 - if numbers and statistics were the ends all be all and nothing else mattered they would have won 7 or 8 games.

This is where the subjectivity comes into play - what accounted for the additional 2 or 3 games they won?

For some on the forum, it's DW4 dragging the team to victory carrying the team and Billy on his shoulders.
For others, it's Billy crafting a game plan that, while not exciting, keeps a defense he knows is suspect off the field by utilizing a slow-moving "run on first down" "score just enough to win" offense.

This is why we have every thread on this forum overrun with the "your guy sucks, my guy is the reason for the team's success" crowd.

My OPINION - it's most realistically a little of both - DW can shine at times (even though I agree he has things to work on, and if I was a Saints fan I would probably still post things like "WTF was Drew thinking there, come on man!? I'm a fan it's my right to complain :texans:), and BoB could have been trying to protect, what he new was a banged up, traded, not talented defense.

The real test for me will be - if BoB knows the defense lacks talent, and game planned for it in 2019 - what is BoB the GM going to do about it NOW? The truth will come out if he decides to draft a TE in the 2nd round and signs no big-name and/or medium tier defensive free agents - then I think we can all stamp "confirmed" on our BoB's an idiot bumper stickers.

Nothing will change even if we all agree BoB sucks - as long as Cal / Janice don't agree with us - but maybe we can stop the sh*t show the forum has turned into over the past 3 or 4 months.

One simple man's opinion - go back to name-calling and finger-pointing.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
One thing people could "take issue with" is that the article and all its facts meant the Texans should have won 7.8 games, but they won 10 - if numbers and statistics were the ends all be all and nothing else mattered they would have won 7 or 8 games.

This is where the subjectivity comes into play - what accounted for the additional 2 or 3 games they won?

For some on the forum, it's DW4 dragging the team to victory carrying the team and Billy on his shoulders.
For others, it's Billy crafting a game plan that, while not exciting, keeps a defense he knows is suspect off the field by utilizing a slow-moving "run on first down" "score just enough to win" offense.

This is why we have every thread on this forum overrun with the "your guy sucks, my guy is the reason for the team's success" crowd.

My OPINION - it's most realistically a little of both - DW can shine at times (even though I agree he has things to work on, and if I was a Saints fan I would probably still post things like "WTF was Drew thinking there, come on man!? I'm a fan it's my right to complain :texans:), and BoB could have been trying to protect, what he new was a banged up, traded, not talented defense.

The real test for me will be - if BoB knows the defense lacks talent, and game planned for it in 2019 - what is BoB the GM going to do about it NOW? The truth will come out if he decides to draft a TE in the 2nd round and signs no big-name and/or medium tier defensive free agents - then I think we can all stamp "confirmed" on our BoB's an idiot bumper stickers.

Nothing will change even if we all agree BoB sucks - as long as Cal / Janice don't agree with us - but maybe we can stop the sh*t show the forum has turned into over the past 3 or 4 months.

One simple man's opinion - go back to name-calling and finger-pointing.
POTY right here.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
One thing people could "take issue with" is that the article and all its facts meant the Texans should have won 7.8 games, but they won 10 - if numbers and statistics were the ends all be all and nothing else mattered they would have won 7 or 8 games.

This is where the subjectivity comes into play - what accounted for the additional 2 or 3 games they won?

For some on the forum, it's DW4 dragging the team to victory carrying the team and Billy on his shoulders.
For others, it's Billy crafting a game plan that, while not exciting, keeps a defense he knows is suspect off the field by utilizing a slow-moving "run on first down" "score just enough to win" offense.

This is why we have every thread on this forum overrun with the "your guy sucks, my guy is the reason for the team's success" crowd.

My OPINION - it's most realistically a little of both - DW can shine at times (even though I agree he has things to work on, and if I was a Saints fan I would probably still post things like "WTF was Drew thinking there, come on man!? I'm a fan it's my right to complain :texans:), and BoB could have been trying to protect, what he new was a banged up, traded, not talented defense.

The real test for me will be - if BoB knows the defense lacks talent, and game planned for it in 2019 - what is BoB the GM going to do about it NOW? The truth will come out if he decides to draft a TE in the 2nd round and signs no big-name and/or medium tier defensive free agents - then I think we can all stamp "confirmed" on our BoB's an idiot bumper stickers.

Nothing will change even if we all agree BoB sucks - as long as Cal / Janice don't agree with us - but maybe we can stop the sh*t show the forum has turned into over the past 3 or 4 months.

One simple man's opinion - go back to name-calling and finger-pointing.
I applaud this, thank you. Well said and spot on.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
One thing people could "take issue with" is that the article and all its facts meant the Texans should have won 7.8 games, but they won 10 - if numbers and statistics were the ends all be all and nothing else mattered they would have won 7 or 8 games.

This is where the subjectivity comes into play - what accounted for the additional 2 or 3 games they won?

For some on the forum, it's DW4 dragging the team to victory carrying the team and Billy on his shoulders.
For others, it's Billy crafting a game plan that, while not exciting, keeps a defense he knows is suspect off the field by utilizing a slow-moving "run on first down" "score just enough to win" offense.

This is why we have every thread on this forum overrun with the "your guy sucks, my guy is the reason for the team's success" crowd.

My OPINION - it's most realistically a little of both - DW can shine at times (even though I agree he has things to work on, and if I was a Saints fan I would probably still post things like "WTF was Drew thinking there, come on man!? I'm a fan it's my right to complain :texans:), and BoB could have been trying to protect, what he new was a banged up, traded, not talented defense.

The real test for me will be - if BoB knows the defense lacks talent, and game planned for it in 2019 - what is BoB the GM going to do about it NOW? The truth will come out if he decides to draft a TE in the 2nd round and signs no big-name and/or medium tier defensive free agents - then I think we can all stamp "confirmed" on our BoB's an idiot bumper stickers.

Nothing will change even if we all agree BoB sucks - as long as Cal / Janice don't agree with us - but maybe we can stop the sh*t show the forum has turned into over the past 3 or 4 months.

One simple man's opinion - go back to name-calling and finger-pointing.
In the 2019 preseason prediction thread/poll on this board I predicted between 6 and 8 wins. I didn’t account for Luck retiring or the Jacksonville implosion though.

I was happy that the Texans did have a better regular season record. I wasn’t happy with the outcome of the KC game. And I remain mystified by OB being named GM. As that article pointed out, under O’Brien the Texans have never been on the + side against DVOA until 2019, and that was just barely. A track record such as that, along with embarrassing playoff performances should warrant changes...I’m just not sure the Texans ownerships response aligns with the numbers.
 
In the 2019 preseason prediction thread/poll on this board I predicted between 6 and 8 wins. I didn’t account for Luck retiring or the Jacksonville implosion though.

I was happy that the Texans did have a better regular season record. I wasn’t happy with the outcome of the KC game. And I remain mystified by OB being named GM. As that article pointed out, under O’Brien the Texans have never been on the + side against DVOA until 2019, and that was just barely. A track record such as that, along with embarrassing playoff performances should warrant changes...I’m just not sure the Texans ownerships response aligns with the numbers.
I would say Cal isn’t looking at the entire body of work as one picture. As much as people give Steel crap for his year 2 of 3 rebuild there is an argument to be made for that if you believe that OB was handcuffed during the RS years.

Whether that’s actually true or not ultimately doesn’t matter if Cal believes it to be true and all signs point to the idea he does. Why name OB GM? It’s not hard to figure out you do it because you don’t want, even if it’s just a excuse, the GM being the reason the HC can’t take the team to the next level.

If Cal really does look at it that OB could only build the real team starting last year then yes there was huge improvements from that point of view. You really think Cal looks at, or cares, what an armchair GM on battle red blog maths up with his phone calculator? No all he cares about is we beat the Pats for the first time in a decade, we went to London and had a good enough game we most likely got some new fans there, Watson took like 20 less sacks so our franchise QB didn’t get broken in half, we made it further than last year into the playoffs and most important butts still filled the seats.

Again from that point of view OB and the Texans had a great season. The other numbers don’t matter to him.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
I would say Cal isn’t looking at the entire body of work as one picture. As much as people give Steel crap for his year 2 of 3 rebuild there is an argument to be made for that if you believe that OB was handcuffed during the RS years.

Whether that’s actually true or not ultimately doesn’t matter if Cal believes it to be true and all signs point to the idea he does. Why name OB GM? It’s not hard to figure out you do it because you don’t want, even if it’s just a excuse, the GM being the reason the HC can’t take the team to the next level.

If Cal really does look at it that OB could only build the real team starting last year then yes there was huge improvements from that point of view. You really think Cal looks at, or cares, what an armchair GM on battle red blog maths up with his phone calculator? No all he cares about is we beat the Pats for the first time in a decade, we went to London and had a good enough game we most likely got some new fans there, Watson took like 20 less sacks so our franchise QB didn’t get broken in half, we made it further than last year into the playoffs and most important butts still filled the seats.

Again from that point of view OB and the Texans had a great season. The other numbers don’t matter to him.
I agree with all that you wrote. I’m still mystified, or maybe stupefied is the better term, that O’Brien is doing all those jobs, after accomplishing not much as OC/HC. But maybe it really is something as simple as the McNair’s not wanting to spend money on a real GM. I only hope that going forward someone from the ownership of the team would at least appear in front of the camera once in awhile; give the appearance of caring about the fans.

Prior to 2019 I generally agreed with Steel. The only time I strongly disagreed with him on anything prior to 2019 was when he would imply that the ownership didn’t care. Now we’ve switched views on that subject.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
For others, it's Billy crafting a game plan that, while not exciting, keeps a defense he knows is suspect off the field by utilizing a slow-moving "run on first down" "score just enough to win" offense.
I think a good OC should be able to get more out of the run game. Doesn’t bother me if it’s dull & boring. If you’re not moving the chains you’re putting that suspect defense on the field & more pressure on your offense.

but I get your point
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree with all that you wrote. I’m still mystified, or maybe stupefied is the better term, that O’Brien is doing all those jobs, after accomplishing not much as OC/HC. But maybe it really is something as simple as the McNair’s not wanting to spend money on a real GM. I only hope that going forward someone from the ownership of the team would at least appear in front of the camera once in awhile; give the appearance of caring about the fans.

Prior to 2019 I generally agreed with Steel. The only time I strongly disagreed with him on anything prior to 2019 was when he would imply that the ownership didn’t care. Now we’ve switched views on that subject.
I still dont think ownership cares. But I do think Cal's actions should tell us who was calling the shots during the BOB/RS dysfunctional relationship.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What I took from this was that the Texans played the games close to the vest. It worked in the regular season to some extent. Not the postseason. If they want to improve, O’Brien will need to be more aggressive on both sides of the ball, and the GM will have to be aggressive in FA.
Good news is BOB was very aggressive last offseason. Lets hope that trend continues.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Bob was acting out of desperation in which netted him another key position. His plan worked to perfection, not for the team but for his personal gain. I’m curious to see how this season unfolds.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Bob was acting out of desperation in which netted him another key position. His plan worked to perfection, not for the team but for his personal gain. I’m curious to see how this season unfolds.
Adding talented players equals desperation?

Would you have rather kept Blue, Davenport, V. Smith?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Bob was acting out of desperation in which netted him another key position. His plan worked to perfection, not for the team but for his personal gain. I’m curious to see how this season unfolds.
Doesn't matter if it was out of desperation. Getting an LT of Tunsil's caliber was more than just about adding a talented player at a position of dire need. It had ramifications beyond that in regards to protecting your franchise QB for the foreseeable future. If you can't see how all that worked to perfection for the team, then i don't know what to tell you.

Meanwhile.........https://sports.yahoo.com/seahawks-could-jadeveon-clowney-nfls-221259317.html...Which means all that nonsense he was talking about a month ago was a bold face lie.

Be sure to read those comments too, All those seahawks fans are saying the same thing we said before his ass was shipped out.
 
Doesn't matter if it was out of desperation. Getting an LT of Tunsil's caliber was more than just about adding a talented player at a position of dire need. It had ramifications beyond that in regards to protecting your franchise QB for the foreseeable future. If you can't see how all that worked to perfection for the team, then i don't know what to tell you.

Meanwhile.........https://sports.yahoo.com/seahawks-could-jadeveon-clowney-nfls-221259317.html...Which means all that nonsense he was talking about a month ago was a bold face lie.

Be sure to read those comments too, All those seahawks fans are saying the same thing we said before his ass was shipped out.
I wish I could "Like" this a thousand times. Clowney is what he has always been, a lazy overrated player that has skated by on his natural gifts and thinks he is worth way more than he is.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
I still dont think ownership cares. But I do think Cal's actions should tell us who was calling the shots during the BOB/RS dysfunctional relationship.
BoB can get rid of the rest of the “Rick Smith hold-overs” if he wants to. He could have benched Watson and started McCarron if he wanted to. But I didn’t post this thread to talk about RS. I was hoping to take a break from the Kubiak versus OB debate and discuss something a little more recent.

Apparently, in order for O’Brien to have a business partnership with someone without it becoming dysfunctional he had to remove everyone else and work by himself. I just hope he has a great therapist.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
BoB can get rid of the rest of the “Rick Smith hold-overs” if he wants to. He could have benched Watson and started McCarron if he wanted to. But I didn’t post this thread to talk about RS. I was hoping to take a break from the Kubiak versus OB debate and discuss something a little more recent.

Apparently, in order for O’Brien to have a business partnership with someone without it becoming dysfunctional he had to remove everyone else and work by himself. I just hope he has a great therapist.
Easterby?

Kinda like Belichick does it.

BTW, BOB didn't have much to do with Gaine leaving. That was a Cal decision. Same with Olsen. Easterby has Cal's ear.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@FuzzyLogic - numbers dont lie. Except when they are supposed to prognosticate! I think the author was simply trying to bring light to the overall picture when many had latched on to the raw win loss record (yes bluebloods I know thats all that matters) when looking at these models they take into account what is quantifiable for the most part and the Houston Texans this year were one of only a few teams in HISTORY to have a winning recored despite a negative DVOA - thats pretty extreme right? One score games are coin flips in forecast calculation models IMO (im sure there is a super nerd who could educate me further and I welcome the exchange) we "lucked" out into winning most of those this year. Is that a sustainable formula for continued success? I would think not. Apart from player heroics there has to be a point where the coach is responsible for calling great plays (like to end the KC game) and OBrien just doesnt add enough in that regard and I think the team as a whole suffers in these pre season forecasts.

edit: this reminded me of a quote from Daryl Morey that went along the lines of "good teams dont win close games, they avoid them"
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
@FuzzyLogic - numbers dont lie. Except when they are supposed to prognosticate! I think the author was simply trying to bring light to the overall picture when many had latched on to the raw win loss record (yes bluebloods I know thats all that matters) when looking at these models they take into account what is quantifiable for the most part and the Houston Texans this year were one of only a few teams in HISTORY to have a winning recored despite a negative DVOA - thats pretty extreme right? One score games are coin flips in forecast calculation models IMO (im sure there is a super nerd who could educate me further and I welcome the exchange) we "lucked" out into winning most of those this year. Is that a sustainable formula for continued success? I would think not. Apart from player heroics there has to be a point where the coach is responsible for calling great plays (like to end the KC game) and OBrien just doesnt add enough in that regard and I think the team as a whole suffers in these pre season forecasts.

edit: this reminded me of a quote from Daryl Morey that went along the lines of "good teams dont win close games, they avoid them"
Most NFL games are within 7 pts. That's just a fact. The Refs help keep them that way.

Maybe, just maybe DVOA isn't all the nerds make it out to be.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
@FuzzyLogic - numbers dont lie. Except when they are supposed to prognosticate! I think the author was simply trying to bring light to the overall picture when many had latched on to the raw win loss record (yes bluebloods I know thats all that matters) when looking at these models they take into account what is quantifiable for the most part and the Houston Texans this year were one of only a few teams in HISTORY to have a winning recored despite a negative DVOA - thats pretty extreme right? One score games are coin flips in forecast calculation models IMO (im sure there is a super nerd who could educate me further and I welcome the exchange) we "lucked" out into winning most of those this year. Is that a sustainable formula for continued success? I would think not. Apart from player heroics there has to be a point where the coach is responsible for calling great plays (like to end the KC game) and OBrien just doesnt add enough in that regard and I think the team as a whole suffers in these pre season forecasts.

edit: this reminded me of a quote from Daryl Morey that went along the lines of "good teams dont win close games, they avoid them"
lol, Care to pull up the last presidential election results and say that? People dumb enough to say numbers don't lie clearly don't understand them well enough to know any better.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Agree with the article.

Obrien mortgaged the future to stay mediocre.

This year he won't have as many future picks to trade and much less capspace
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Agree with the article.

Obrien mortgaged the future to stay mediocre.

This year he won't have as many future picks to trade and much less capspace
He doesn't have a 1st rd pick, but has a high 4th

#THEWORLDISGOINGTOEND
 

Mangler

Veteran
This will probably offend the few Andre Dillard fanboys in here who declared him this generational talent that we let slip away, lol. The fact a few said it with conviction makes this that much sweeter to read!

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This will probably offend the few Andre Dillard fanboys in here who declared him this generational talent that we let slip away, lol. The fact a few said it with conviction makes this that much sweeter to read!

Nobody that I know of said he was a generational talent.

I for one said he was an elite athlete for his position, who needed to gain strength. Which he is/does
 

Mangler

Veteran
Nobody that I know of said he was a generational talent.

I for one said he was an elite athlete for his position, who needed to gain strength. Which he is/does
You claimed he was better than Howard, so much so that he’d be an immediate starter and Howard was the project. Boy did you have that ass backwards! It’s all good though, it’s great that we landed the better Offensive Lineman of the two, as the line needed all the help it could get. Too bad our guy ended up getting injured cause he kept trending up as the season progressed.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
what could anyone take issue with within that article? It was all supported and sourced perfectly. No tinge of subjectivity. Just a data driven piece to verify what many felt were hasty generalizations. It was marvelous.
Maybe we have different definitions of subjective? The article is littered with the author's opinions. While this isn't much of a surprise, it's definitely not what most would call subjective.

Easy examples of expressed opinion vs. stated facts.

"They weren’t particularly injured."

"Overall, the Texans 2019 season wasn’t something to build on."

"Houston was mediocre"

"Resigning the same players and running it back next season won’t see the same results."

"the way Houston’s offense turtled without Fuller on the field was incomprehensible"

"The Texans’ offense should be led by their vertical passing game."

"The most annoying part of the season wasn’t this though. It was how DeAndre Hopkins was used."

"He caught 68 first downs, the third most receiving third downs in the league, but this made him a less efficient receiver."

"Houston also hamstrung their offense by their desire to ESTABLISH THE RUN. "

"The only good reason for this ball control offense was it kept the defense off the field."

"The only reasoning for the Clowney trade, as I turn a screwdriver through my chin and into my mental protuberence, is that Houston needed cost controlled players with team control for multiple seasons after trading top draft capital for Laremy Tunsil. Regardless, Houston was a worse football team in 2019 without him."

And for good measure, the factually INaccurate -

"To ‘improve’ their defense Houston replaced Tashaun Gipson with Tyrann Mathieu"


It's not to say that I don't agree with some of the author's conclusions, but that they represent a TON more than just representing bare facts.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
sigh. @disaacks3

1.
4. Houston Texans
Houston was average in terms of injuries, but keeping quarterback DeShaun Watson healthy for a second straight season made all the difference. Watson led the Texans to a 10-6 record as they surpassed the season win total of 8.5. Defensive lineman J.J. Watt and receiver Will Fuller also returned to practice this week and would be huge additions for Saturday’s home game against the Buffalo Bills. That also explains why Houston is a -3 favorite over Buffalo.
so "they werent particularly injured" is a truthful statement when including context. nice try.

2. so what do you build on? YOu went "all in" on the offense and it FINALLY cracked the top 10, but at the expense of the defense. LOL and then you got humiliated by the Chiefs. Only one way to go right?

3. again, do you understand how to read CPOE and DVOA models and then using CONTEXT include the 'luck' factor in this most current season and then using the word "mediocre" is a dead nuts representation of the current Bill OBrien team. "but but but 10-6 Brian, AFC South Champs Brian" ... Yawn.

4. this ties directly into #3 .. if you think this team is going to again "run it back" with a negative season long DVOA and expect another winner you just dont understand forecast models and the data that goes into them. Look at the SOS of the opponent, One score games, opponent blunders etc etc. You are grasping.

5. Ummm .. how was it not "incomprehensible" they were two completely different offenses when ONE PLAYER was not involved ... ONE PLAYER!!! - Yup INCOMPREHENSIBLE applies. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/incomprehensible

6. Because being a "ground and pound" offense has worked wonders so far right? - Play to your strengths. Sadly this high school offensive playbook is not getting it done. I wonder why.

7. It wasnt annoying? LOL .. the best outside wideout turned into a slot receiver??? while there lies subjectivity in the stance, its a phenomenal way to say "stop being stupid, stupid"

8. compare efficiency stats between his play on the sidelines vs on the slot and then get back to me. (burden of proof)

9. who doesnt love 1st and 2nd down inside zone runs .. i cant get enough of them myself. :kitten:

10. right because the defense was the strength of the team so lets just go 3 and out so that the D can go out and make some plays!!

11. The Houston Texan defense was CONSIDERABLY WORSE without JD Clowney .. that is fact.

12. Funny, if Tashaun Gipson was available during the Chief game (you know if he wouldnt have gotten hurt playing in a game where many other starters were sitting) then I wonder if Kelce goes off the way he did. 51-7 is neatly presented at the feet of Deshaun Watson and the offense in some ridiculous lack of perspective, but in truth the defense couldnt get it done. So yeah, Gipson vs Mathieu was a wash considering the peripheral players they each had.

this was fun. keep em comin'!!
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
learn something today:

Let's go even simpler - https://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective
I've no issue with the author expressing his opinion, just having it presented as "objective facts only", when it clearly falls outside those definitional lines.

"They weren’t particularly injured." This is most certainly an opinion stated by the author. It's not an objective fact.

A) It's still an opinion, even if he has facts that support this particular statement, stating it in this manner is purely a subjective opinion.

Did he say for example: "The Texans had the average amount of starters lost to injury vs. the NFL as a whole, or even vs. other playoff teams?" Nope. How about "The Texans had x number of players starting at various positions throughout the year?" Nope. He went with "weren't particularly injured".

B) The author goes on later to state that "The meteor was a torn pectoral that detonated in week 8, and at that point, Watt was the entirety of Houston’s pass rush." Certainly looks like I could make a case that losing Watt was a pretty critical injury.

C) You walked right into your own argument. ----> "Ummm .. how was it not "incomprehensible" they were two completely different offenses when ONE PLAYER was not involved ... ONE PLAYER!!! - Yup INCOMPREHENSIBLE applies." So, even though YOU see that this injury was indeed critical, you're still trying to defend the first quoted line as being objective, rather than subjective?

I'm decidedly unsure why you're choosing this particular hill to die on.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
i typed out a nice, long response, but I deleted it. ... you know why? It doesnt really matter. You're going around in circles and will never let go of your only arrow. So guess what??? YOU WIN!!!!! Your argument that the article was a sensationalistic fluff piece mired with false data and subjective lies will be what we go with. Good job!

Is this where I bow my head and wait for the slap from the master??

to the point the Houston Texans DID NOT deal with the amount of injuries that would necessitate an excuse like this, but whatever again I just dont have the energy.

Be cool.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Let's go even simpler - https://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective
I've no issue with the author expressing his opinion, just having it presented as "objective facts only", when it clearly falls outside those definitional lines.

"They weren’t particularly injured." This is most certainly an opinion stated by the author. It's not an objective fact.

A) It's still an opinion, even if he has facts that support this particular statement, stating it in this manner is purely a subjective opinion.

Did he say for example: "The Texans had the average amount of starters lost to injury vs. the NFL as a whole, or even vs. other playoff teams?" Nope. How about "The Texans had x number of players starting at various positions throughout the year?" Nope. He went with "weren't particularly injured".

B) The author goes on later to state that "The meteor was a torn pectoral that detonated in week 8, and at that point, Watt was the entirety of Houston’s pass rush." Certainly looks like I could make a case that losing Watt was a pretty critical injury.

C) You walked right into your own argument. ----> "Ummm .. how was it not "incomprehensible" they were two completely different offenses when ONE PLAYER was not involved ... ONE PLAYER!!! - Yup INCOMPREHENSIBLE applies." So, even though YOU see that this injury was indeed critical, you're still trying to defend the first quoted line as being objective, rather than subjective?

I'm decidedly unsure why you're choosing this particular hill to die on.
The meteor in the Chiefs playoff game was losing Gipson. They didn't have anybody that could match up with Kelce. Matching up with TE's is a strength of Gipson's.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well, when he did, he was only joining 95% of the 50 or so draft prognosticators that I saw. Also, when they compare the two players so far, they never seem preface their stats with the fact that, they are playing two different positions.
Those pesky facts,

Playing LT is far different than playing RT. I'm just glad those positions have been solidified for atleast the next 4 yrs. (Yes Tunsil is going to re-sign.)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You claimed he was better than Howard, so much so that he’d be an immediate starter and Howard was the project. Boy did you have that ass backwards! It’s all good though, it’s great that we landed the better Offensive Lineman of the two, as the line needed all the help it could get. Too bad our guy ended up getting injured cause he kept trending up as the season progressed.
As a LT he would've been better than Howard and if he would've been drafted he would've been the starting LT. (Not saying he would've been as good as Tunsil)

Agreed, I too wish Howard wouldn't have gotten hurt so he could've continued his growth at RT.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
You claimed he was better than Howard, so much so that he’d be an immediate starter and Howard was the project. Boy did you have that ass backwards! It’s all good though, it’s great that we landed the better Offensive Lineman of the two, as the line needed all the help it could get. Too bad our guy ended up getting injured cause he kept trending up as the season progressed.
He might have been our starting LT this past season and if so we'd probably be 2 first round picks richer than we are today.
In Philly he had no opportunity to play his rookie year as he was playing behind a perennial all-pro LT.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He might have been our starting LT this past season and if so we'd probably be 2 first round picks richer than we are today.
In Philly he had no opportunity to play his rookie year as he was playing behind a perennial all-pro LT.
But not as good at LT as they are with Tunsil.
 


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