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2019 Texans by the Numbers

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
I'm one of those guys .... I guess. But I disapproved of a whole lot of the trades, draft picks, and acquisitions that Kubiak and Smith made. O'Brien has no feel for it, but he admitted as much. Kubiak is like us .... he is naturally drawn to talent evaluation .... and yet, he made plenty of mistakes. A new problem for me, is the fact that O'Brien, and now Tim Kelley, were both defensive players. There is bound to an unspoken agreement between them, Not to hire anyone with an imagination ! Three yards and a cloud of dust .... we're gonna have to sit on our hands to keep from clappin !
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
But not as good at LT as they are with Tunsil.
But of course not but perhaps he would have been servicible with the potential to become atleast a very capably LT,
who knows maybe superior ?
What we do know without reservation is that the first round picks of 2000 & 2001 represent a gigantic price.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But of course not but perhaps he would have been servicible with the potential to become atleast a very capably LT,
who knows maybe superior ?
What we do know without reservation is that the first round picks of 2000 & 2001 represent a gigantic price.
Doubtful

If they wanted to trade up to say 10th in this draft to draft say Willis/Thomas/Becton what would the price be?

A 2021 1st and maybe a 3rd.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If i recall my thoughts on Scharping for LT i wasn't impressed with him as an LT prospect. He just looked too big & lumbering to be out there on an island like that.. I thought the upside for the kid was at RT..didn't even think about how he could possibly play guard.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
You claimed he was better than Howard, so much so that he’d be an immediate starter and Howard was the project. Boy did you have that ass backwards! It’s all good though, it’s great that we landed the better Offensive Lineman of the two, as the line needed all the help it could get. Too bad our guy ended up getting injured cause he kept trending up as the season progressed.
yeah we should be glad that you and I never get anything wrong.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
It’s what we gave up knowing there’s a chance Tunsil might bounce on us. Why did Tunsil all of sudden fire his agent? Maybe he didn’t like our first offer in which his agent might’ve agreed upon.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It’s what we gave up knowing there’s a chance Tunsil might bounce on us. Why did Tunsil all of sudden fire his agent? Maybe he didn’t like our first offer in which his agent might’ve agreed upon.
Maybe/Might

Don't worry, Tunsil isn't going anywhere for at least 2 more yrs in the worst case scenario.

It's like some on here ( not you) want him to walk.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Maybe/Might

Don't worry, Tunsil isn't going anywhere for at least 2 more yrs in the worst case scenario.

It's like some on here ( not you) want him to walk.
I don’t think anyone wants him to walk. And you can best believe he’s not taking the franchise tag. He fired his agent for a reason. The youngster might want him money right now. That’s why there talking extension right now.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don’t think anyone wants him to walk. And you can best believe he’s not taking the franchise tag. He fired his agent for a reason. The youngster might want him money right now. That’s why there talking extension right now.
Doesn't really matter if he wants the franchise tag or not.

Ain't nothing getting done until after the new CBA gets done.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Doesn't really matter if he wants the franchise tag or not.

Ain't nothing getting done until after the new CBA gets done.

Steel it does matter, it wasn't in the agreement I bet. It's a strong possibility this youngster hold out. You're acting like these ballers aren't doing these type of things to get paid. Again something went wrong in these talk. That's why he fired his agent. Don't be surprised when or if things go south.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Steel it does matter, it wasn't in the agreement I bet. It's a strong possibility this youngster hold out. You're acting like these ballers aren't doing these type of things to get paid. Again something went wrong in these talk. That's why he fired his agent. Don't be surprised when or if things go south.
We will see
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Those pesky facts,

Playing LT is far different than playing RT. I'm just glad those positions have been solidified for atleast the next 4 yrs. (Yes Tunsil is going to re-sign.)
Why do you say LT is far different then RT? Most good defenses have more then 1 good pass rusher and most DCs move guys around to find favorable match ups.

Last draft I wanted 2 of Dillard, Howard, Scharping so I was happy. I’m really glad we’ve got Tunsil though, he’s the best of the bunch by far. If we can upgrade RG, with the growth and experience of Howard and Scharping, we could finally have a top 10 OL
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Why do you say LT is far different then RT? Most good defenses have more then 1 good pass rusher and most DCs move guys around to find favorable match ups.

Last draft I wanted 2 of Dillard, Howard, Scharping so I was happy. I’m really glad we’ve got Tunsil though, he’s the best of the bunch by far. If we can upgrade RG, with the growth and experience of Howard and Scharping, we could finally have a top 10 OL
For your answer, read Kirwan's book take your eye off the ball.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Steel it does matter, it wasn't in the agreement I bet. It's a strong possibility this youngster hold out. You're acting like these ballers aren't doing these type of things to get paid. Again something went wrong in these talk. That's why he fired his agent. Don't be surprised when or if things go south.
Word is Tunsil wants to leverage his brand and grow potentially beyond football. He may have fired his agent because a agent like from Lebron's group can easily get him paid in football and also get him in other things. This is maybe best time for him to strike. So I am not yet worried about the agent firing. He is going to get close to $20m with 5 year deal and probably 60% or more guaranteed, which will be a record for OL. This is given, so he may just be seeing what else he wants right now.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It's no longer the '70's
It may no longer be the 70's but that book was written in the 2010's so while things have changed in regards to the OT positions, the LT/RT positions are different positions. Now would it be great to have guys at both positions with LT skills? Yes.

Example: Howard wasn't capable of playing LT at a high level but has shown great promise at RT.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But both are equally important
The LT protects the QB's blindside, therefore he's more important and are paid accordingly. Look at what LT's are paid vs RT's.
 
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OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Well, when he did, he was only joining 95% of the 50 or so draft prognosticators that I saw. Also, when they compare the two players so far, they never seem preface their stats with the fact that, they are playing two different positions.
I can agree with this. Anyone want to guess how 2019 would've gone if Howard was carrying the torch at LT. It might be fair to say that both he and Dillard would've been in the same boat when seasons end analysis' were handed out.

Howard came into his own, if even for a short time, at RT.....so much so that I'd like to see him stay put and own the RT position for the Texans over the next 4 to 8 seasons.
 
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austins23

Hall of Fame
Watch things other than the ball. My seats at NRG give me a great view of the offense when it is going to the south end zone. I’ll watch Oline play for a series then the WRs and so on.
Then the defense and coverages when it is defending the north end zone.
Fun for me to try and figure out what the D is doing.
It’s just a little more interesting for me to watch like that for a bit.

The book also explains why certain positions do what it does. Just helps you understand the game a little better.
 
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dream_team

Hall of Fame
It may no longer be the 70's but that book was written in the 2010's so while things have changed in regards to the OT positions, the LT/RT positions are different positions. Now would it be great to have guys at both positions with LT skills? Yes.

Example: Howard wasn't capable of playing LT at a high level but has shown great promise at RT.
Howard played LT?
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
In camp and they found out pretty quickly that he wasn't a LT. That lead to the Tunsil trade.
Not munch of a chance to prove himself, don't ya think? They gave Davenport a whole season. They even gave freakin' Rankins snaps at LT. But as soon as a first round pick OT gets into camp, they are quick to judge he can't play the left side at all that they need to pull off a huge trade?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Not munch of a chance to prove himself, don't ya think? They gave Davenport a whole season. They even gave freakin' Rankins snaps at LT. But as soon as a first round pick OT gets into camp, they are quick to judge he can't play the left side at all that they need to pull off a huge trade?
The Texans actions should tell you they didn't think Howard was a NFL LT. Do you really think BOB would've traded a boat load of picks for Tunsil if the thought Howard could play LT?
 

Mangler

Veteran
The Texans actions should tell you they didn't think Howard was a NFL LT. Do you really think BOB would've traded a boat load of picks for Tunsil if the thought Howard could play LT?
I’m pretty sure that had more to do with Bob being desperate or in “win now” mode. I remember reports from last off-season saying O’Brien was going to make whatever moves he saw necessary in order to make a run at the Super Bowl. We needed another receiver and he did what he had to to get a good one in Stills along with an already established LT. We can’t afford to let anyone learn on the job while gambling our franchise QB’s health.

I’m also not mad at Howard. Hell, I’d rather have a 1st round pick that pans out in a different position, instead of ending up with yet another 1st round bust to add to O’Brien’s long list of 1st round busts!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I’m pretty sure that had more to do with Bob being desperate or in “win now” mode. I remember reports from last off-season saying O’Brien was going to make whatever moves he saw necessary in order to make a run at the Super Bowl. We needed another receiver and he did what he had to to get a good one in Stills along with an already established LT. We can’t afford to let anyone learn on the job while gambling our franchise QB’s health.

I’m also not mad at Howard. Hell, I’d rather have a 1st round pick that pans out in a different position, instead of ending up with yet another 1st round bust to add to O’Brien’s long list of 1st round busts!
Long line of 1st rd busts?

This is the 1st draft BOB has been in charge of, and the only bust in the 1st rd since BOB has been here was KJo and that was only because of injury. Besides RS made the final draft calls.

You're going to have to redirect your BOB hate elsewhere because BOB has had exactly zero 1st rd busts during his tenure here and he will have zero 1st rd busts for the next 2 drafts as well,
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
I’m pretty sure that had more to do with Bob being desperate or in “win now” mode. I remember reports from last off-season saying O’Brien was going to make whatever moves he saw necessary in order to make a run at the Super Bowl. We needed another receiver and he did what he had to to get a good one in Stills along with an already established LT. We can’t afford to let anyone learn on the job while gambling our franchise QB’s health.

I’m also not mad at Howard. Hell, I’d rather have a 1st round pick that pans out in a different position, instead of ending up with yet another 1st round bust to add to O’Brien’s long list of 1st round busts!
Ah, but remember, O’Brien had absolutely nothing to do with those 1st round (or any round) bust picks. That was ALL the fault of others. Ignore all those other people and ownerships repeated comments that the former GM’s and O’Brien made those picks collectively.

In all seriousness though, the numbers I posted when I created this thread don’t lie. And I believed, and I still do the coaching staff and front office worked together in creating an offense that barely went positive against DVOA once since O’Brien took the HC position.

As for Howard, still too early to gauge him as a bust or a big success. It’s tough to make that judgment after one incomplete season. Hopefully both he and Max help solidify the offensive line because the Texans have too many other holes to fill, particularly on the defense which was decimated by a mass exodus of talent over the last couple of years. I’m not going to jump to conclusions and say that was O’Brien’s fault, could have been Chris’s. We’re going to find out real soon how this new front office navigates some pretty rough waters.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Shoot! I didn’t get my comments to Mangler out fast enough. The O’Brien defense team comes out pretty dang fast around here.
BOB defense team? I believe most said he should've been fired after 51-7.

Yes, those picks were made colletively, but the GM's made the final call. See: RS/Watson, Gaine/Howard and tell me who made those picks. It was rumored BOB wanted Mahomes, RS picked DW4, you tell me who was in charge of the war room?

Of course this doesn't fit the narrative around these parts, but atleast now we know who's in charge of the show down on Kirby instead of the dysfunctional setup the Texans org had for the last decade.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They’ve been working overtime since the Historic meltdown in Kansas City.
Who's working overtime? Most (Including myself) wanted BOB to be fired after 51-7.

Care to tell me how many drafts BOB has been the GM over?

Can you address this directly.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You see that and one of them wants to call Watson trash. Said he’s not good. But ole Mangler is hating on BOB.
I've never said DW4's trash.

I said you cant win a championship with his current level of play and I dont think he will be able to improve his weaknesses enough to win a championship. You think he can,

Instead of the pot shots your taking at me

Feel free to address me directly
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I’m also not mad at Howard. Hell, I’d rather have a 1st round pick that pans out in a different position, instead of ending up with yet another 1st round bust to add to O’Brien’s long list of 1st round busts!
Please provide me a list of Texans first round bust post Casserly. Doesn't matter who was calling the shots, I don't think you can fill a hand after 13 years of history unless your idea of bust is far different than mine (and most of NFL's) opinion.
 

Earl34

Veteran
BOB defense team? I believe most said he should've been fired after 51-7.

Yes, those picks were made colletively, but the GM's made the final call. See: RS/Watson, Gaine/Howard and tell me who made those picks. It was rumored BOB wanted Mahomes, RS picked DW4, you tell me who was in charge of the war room?

Of course this doesn't fit the narrative around these parts, but atleast now we know who's in charge of the show down on Kirby instead of the dysfunctional setup the Texans org had for the last decade.
Looks like with Smith and Gaine gone, you have given O'Brien a clean slate. Sergeant Shultz from Hogan's Heroes would be proud. Since Kelly is now calling the plays and has full control of the game plans, I guess you will also allow Watson the same clean slate you have given O'Brien.

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Looks like with Smith and Gaine gone, you have given O'Brien a clean slate. Sergeant Shultz from Hogan's Heroes would be proud. Since Kelly is now calling the plays and has full control of the game plans, I guess you will also allow Watson the same clean slate you have given O'Brien.

I'm not giving anybody a clean slate. I was just pointing out that this is the 1st draft that BOB is going to be fully in charge of and I hope he does well. Why? Because whether some on this MB like it or not BOB's going to be here for another 3-5 yrs.

Same with DW4. Hopefully he can learn better under Kelly than he did under BOB.

I dont get how you can turn my post into a DW4 post. But I guess that's what happens when you're more of a fan of DW4 than of the Texans.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Who's working overtime? Most (Including myself) wanted BOB to be fired after 51-7.

Care to tell me how many drafts BOB has been the GM over?

Can you address this directly.

This is what I'm talking about. You believe what you want to. Even if Obrien states its a collective effort between all of them . Since it doesn't line up with your chain of thought. You don't believe him. But when it does line up with your agenda, you then try to use what he said.


Again it's the coaching that needs to do a better job in developing these players.
 


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