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2019 Texans by the Numbers

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Looks like with Smith and Gaine gone, you have given O'Brien a clean slate. Sergeant Shultz from Hogan's Heroes would be proud. Since Kelly is now calling the plays and has full control of the game plans, I guess you will also allow Watson the same clean slate you have given O'Brien.


That's not going to happen. Dude truly hates Watson play.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is what I'm talking about. You believe what you want to. Even if Obrien states its a collective effort between all of them . Since it doesn't line up with your chain of thought. You don't believe him. But when it does line up with your agenda, you then try to use what he said.


Again it's the coaching that needs to do a better job in developing these players.
Who made the final call on the draft picks?

Getting better players in rds 2-4 will help. But , yes they do need to better develop these guys. They've actully done a pretty good job of developing guys. Scharping/Howard seem to have developed pretty well and several guys on defense have been developed.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is what I'm talking about. You believe what you want to. Even if Obrien states its a collective effort between all of them . Since it doesn't line up with your chain of thought. You don't believe him. But when it does line up with your agenda, you then try to use what he said.


Again it's the coaching that needs to do a better job in developing these players.
BTW, you didn't answer the questions I asked.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
BOB defense team? I believe most said he should've been fired after 51-7.

Yes, those picks were made colletively, but the GM's made the final call. See: RS/Watson, Gaine/Howard and tell me who made those picks. It was rumored BOB wanted Mahomes, RS picked DW4, you tell me who was in charge of the war room?

Of course this doesn't fit the narrative around these parts, but atleast now we know who's in charge of the show down on Kirby instead of the dysfunctional setup the Texans org had for the last decade.
My fear, the Texans and McNair's have turned a blind eye to the repeated gaffes of O'Brien as the HC and OC. He did get to play GM after the draft and made some deals that improved the team somewhat but at a tremendous cost.....2020 and 2021 drafts.

My biggest concern is that O'Brien could dig the team into a deeper hole that could require years to get out of. OB more than ever is in a win now mode since he's entering his 7th season and now controls every facet of the Texans. I see absolutely nothing on his resume that would entice the McNair's to hand him the team.

OB hasn't shown the ability to think or out think his opposition on the field in crunch time.......the draft is nothing but crunch time. This will be an interesting watch. By the way, if he knocks the draft and FA out of the park, I'll be the first to say congratulations O'Brien.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
My fear, the Texans and McNair's have turned a blind eye to the repeated gaffes of O'Brien as the HC and OC. He did get to play GM after the draft and made some deals that improved the team somewhat but at a tremendous cost.....2020 and 2021 drafts.

My biggest concern is that O'Brien could dig the team into a deeper hole that could require years to get out of. OB more than ever is in a win now mode since he's entering his 7th season and now controls every facet of the Texans. I see absolutely nothing on his resume that would entice the McNair's to hand him the team.

OB hasn't shown the ability to think or out think his opposition on the field in crunch time.......the draft is nothing but crunch time. This will be an interesting watch. By the way, if he knocks the draft and FA out of the park, I'll be the first to say congratulations O'Brien.
I like the moves he made before the season started.

Let's hope he knocks the draft/ FA out of the park.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The Texans actions should tell you they didn't think Howard was a NFL LT. Do you really think BOB would've traded a boat load of picks for Tunsil if the thought Howard could play LT?
The actions told me BOB has some urgency to win now. I don't think it had anything to do with their thoughts on Howard being able to play LT.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The actions told me BOB has some urgency to win now. I don't think it had anything to do with their thoughts on Howard being able to play LT.
So you think if Howard was able to man the LT position that BOB would've made the Tunsil trade anyways?

If so, I respectfully agree to disagree.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
So you think if Howard was able to man the LT position that BOB would've made the Tunsil trade anyways?

If so, I respectfully agree to disagree.

I think the RT position was so bad, once OB saw the opportunity to pick us Tunsil for a first and feeling that Howard was a better option than what else was there he couldn't pass up the chance to have the tackle spots covered for years
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The Texans actions should tell you they didn't think Howard was a NFL LT. Do you really think BOB would've traded a boat load of picks for Tunsil if the thought Howard could play LT?
With how fast the Tunsil trade came down, Its most likely the Texans were in talks with Miami about him well before the draft hit. I think they coveted Tunsil from day 1 & the FO had been secretly working on a package to ship Clowney to Miami in exchange for Tunsil pretty much as soon as they decided to frachise tag Clowney......which was back in March i believe. I'll even go so far as to say they may have actually had something tentatively agreed upon before the draft & would've executed it had Clowney signed the tag. Gaine for his part may have tentatively been on board with it............. but as the GM he could've also been opposed to it or actually been the guy who nixed it b/c he might not have wanted to give up what Miami was asking for. I believe it's also reported/speculated that Gaine wanted to resign Clowney too so there's that. In essence, the talks probably cooled off at some point b/c of that & b/c Gaine & BoB thought that they still had a very good shot to get Dillard in the draft...I'll even speculate that Gaine may have done some reassuring to BoB that they would be able to get Dillard. Well of course we know what happened & that might've led to why Gaine isn't here anymore...

In saying all this, i'm saying that Tunsil was probably coveted from day 1 by BoB & the FO so them giving up what they did to get him probably had nothing to do with Howard being moved to RT b/c Dream is right, he really didn't have the opportunity to show much of anything at LT in camp. It's more likely it was just an opportunity thing on BoB's part who was probably thinking "I've got holes all over the o-line & i've got this super athletic kid who's already better than alot of guys i have on the roster......I've got to find a place for him on this line now.." this is why he got snaps at LT, RG & eventually RT.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He said it was too hard to train up and develop young left tackles. (Paraphrasing)
If you think Howard was/is a LT.

I mean he didn't even play LT at Alabama A&M but you think he can be a day 1 starter in the NFL? SMH

There are no assurances that he can even play LT in the NFL even after being developed. In fact if I was gambling I would bet against him being a LT. Did you notice when Tunsil got hurt they put Clark in at LT?
 

KarlK

Waterboy
You claimed he was better than Howard, so much so that he’d be an immediate starter and Howard was the project. Boy did you have that ass backwards! It’s all good though, it’s great that we landed the better Offensive Lineman of the two, as the line needed all the help it could get. Too bad our guy ended up getting injured cause he kept trending up as the season progressed.
What’s not great, though, is that we got rid of the guy who made that great decision.

I guess jettisoning Gaine because of that supposed bad draft was shortsighted and wrong. Not sure why anyone would think O’Brien will be anywhere near as good as Gaine was in evaluating and drafting players (not that he’ll to worry about that for a while)
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
He mainly played RT in college.
He played 16 games at RT and 11 at LT...

Howard has grown from a high school quarterback and basketball star into a NFL prospect on the offensive line. He redshirted as a tight end for the Hornets in 2014 but managed to work his way onto the field at right tackle the following season (six starts in eight games played). Howard started seven games on the rights side his sophomore year before replacing NFL draft pick Jylan Ware at left tackle, starting all 11 games in 2017. SWAC coaches named him the Hornets' only first-team all-conference selection in 2018 after he started 10 games at right tackle.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tytus-howard?id=3219484f-5743-2152-432d-da3c484cb3f8
 

Earl34

Veteran
This is what I'm talking about. You believe what you want to. Even if Obrien states its a collective effort between all of them . Since it doesn't line up with your chain of thought. You don't believe him. But when it does line up with your agenda, you then try to use what he said.


Again it's the coaching that needs to do a better job in developing these players.
Here is O'Brien talking about draft picks, the salary cap and "mistakes he made". I think he's talking about selecting Osweiler vs Watson. It sure doesn't sound like he was a wallflower during the decision making process.


 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Again, no argument there, but that wasn't the conversation...
I thought the conversation was about why the Tunsil trade happened,

He wasn't ready, nor did he have the athletic profile to play LT in the NFL.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I thought the conversation was about why the Tunsil trade happened,

He wasn't ready, nor did he have the athletic profile to play LT in the NFL.
It was about your comment that Howard didn't play LT in college. I already agreed with you that he wasn't ready to play LT in the NFL
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
If you think Howard was/is a LT.

I mean he didn't even play LT at Alabama A&M but you think he can be a day 1 starter in the NFL? SMH

There are no assurances that he can even play LT in the NFL even after being developed. In fact if I was gambling I would bet against him being a LT. Did you notice when Tunsil got hurt they put Clark in at LT?
It’s not what I think, it’s what’s been said and what I’ve witnessed. 6 years in and they’re still struggling to get this offensive line on the same page or better. It doesn’t matter if it’s a rookie or veteran FA coming in. For some reason they just can’t deliver their plan.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It’s not what I think, it’s what’s been said and what I’ve witnessed. 6 years in and they’re still struggling to get this offensive line on the same page or better. It doesn’t matter if it’s a rookie or veteran FA coming in. For some reason they just can’t deliver their plan.
Hey Scjarping has developed well and Howard was devloping well.

Davenport not so much, the talent has to be there to develop.

Not saying I think Devlin has done a good job because he's been below avg in both scheme and player development.

So I agree with you, but I'm not to the extent that you are.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Here is O'Brien talking about draft picks, the salary cap and "mistakes he made". I think he's talking about selecting Osweiler vs Watson. It sure doesn't sound like he was a wallflower during the decision making process.


He didn't say anything different. Of course he had input, all head coaches do, however I don't think he had FINAL say on acquisitions whether trade, draft or FA pickups. Could it be he's speaking of his mistake with Osweiler, meaning he should have said no way to the choice that was levied by the ultimatum to get a new QB? I believe on this message board there is this misconception of pro O'Brien vs anti O'Brien. Mostly from those who are presumably anti O'Brien. I'm sure most want him gone but the presumably pro O'Brien crowd recognize that he is here and accept that, so they concentrate on what's necessary for success instead on constantly identifying the flaws we all see. I don't like OB the HC and so far not too fond of OB the GM either, but 1 thing is for sure: there is no excuse left.
 

Earl34

Veteran
He didn't say anything different. Of course he had input, all head coaches do, however I don't think he had FINAL say on acquisitions whether trade, draft or FA pickups. Could it be he's speaking of his mistake with Osweiler, meaning he should have said no way to the choice that was levied by the ultimatum to get a new QB? I believe on this message board there is this misconception of pro O'Brien vs anti O'Brien. Mostly from those who are presumably anti O'Brien. I'm sure most want him gone but the presumably pro O'Brien crowd recognize that he is here and accept that, so they concentrate on what's necessary for success instead on constantly identifying the flaws we all see. I don't like OB the HC and so far not too fond of OB the GM either, but 1 thing is for sure: there is no excuse left.
I agree with that statement. My point is O'Brien had input. Yes, he lost some and he won some. I believe he won more than he lost. I just don't buy the narrative that he was just sitting by and letting Smith make the majority of the decisions. It just doesn't fit his personality.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I agree with that statement. My point is O'Brien had input. Yes, he lost some and he won some. I believe he won more than he lost. I just don't buy the narrative that he was just sitting by and letting Smith make the majority of the decisions. It just doesn't fit his personality.
My thing is Earl why don’t some people believe what O’Brien has stated on numerous occasions, “ it’s a collective decision “. I just don’t get it. Are they saying the man was lying his butt off?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree with that statement. My point is O'Brien had input. Yes, he lost some and he won some. I believe he won more than he lost. I just don't buy the narrative that he was just sitting by and letting Smith make the majority of the decisions. It just doesn't fit his personality.
Do you believe there was dysfunction between BOB/RS?

If so do you think the dysfunction was caused by RS making the final calls.

Remember what one of our MB members was there when Kubiak had Manning in the building wanting to sign and RS said no.

That's 2 different regimes with the same GM and the same results.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Do you believe there was dysfunction between BOB/RS?

If so do you think the dysfunction was caused by RS making the final calls.

Remember what one of our MB members was there when Kubiak had Manning in the building wanting to sign and RS said no.

That's 2 different regimes with the same GM and the same results.
So Kubiak lost that argument. Again, it doesn’t mean he lost every argument and I’m sure they agreed more times than not. BTW, I thought if the Texans’ GM and HC couldn’t agree, then McNair was the tiebreaker?

I didn’t like the consensus approach of Kubiak and Smith. I don’t like the current King of Kirby approach either.

Battles between HCs and GMs are common in the NFL and not unique to the Texans. I‘m just not interested in picking sides because they all had a hand in contributing to the mediocrity of this team.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So Kubiak lost that argument. Again, it doesn’t mean he lost every argument and I’m sure they agreed more times than not. BTW, I thought if the Texans’ GM and HC couldn’t agree, then McNair was the tiebreaker?

I didn’t like the consensus approach of Kubiak and Smith. I don’t like the current King of Kirby approach either.

Battles between HCs and GMs are common in the NFL and not unique to the Texans. I‘m just not interested in picking sides because they all had a hand in contributing to the mediocrity of this team.
2 different regimes should tell you who had the clout and why there was dysfunction.

Also it should give clues about why one of Cal's 1st order of business was to clean house and bring in Easterby along with giving BOB the GM job once Cal couldn't get Caserio out of Foxboro.

Easterby is the guy that has Cal's ear and carries the big stick in the Texans org. IMHO
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Battles between HCs and GMs are common in the NFL and not unique to the Texans. I‘m just not interested in picking sides because they all had a hand in contributing to the mediocrity of this team.
2 different regimes should tell you who had the clout and why there was dysfunction
Mediocre HC's and GM's lead to mediocrity even if the McNairs were competent
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
2 different regimes should tell you who had the clout and why there was dysfunction.

Also it should give clues about why one of Cal's 1st order of business was to clean house and bring in Easterby along with giving BOB the GM job once Cal couldn't get Caserio out of Foxboro.

Easterby is the guy that has Cal's ear and carries the big stick in the Texans org. IMHO
Easterby does not hold more weight than O’Brien. This man managed to become HC, OC and GM. He is the one inside Cals head/ear. For all I know Easterby is here because of O’Brien. Look at the track record.

My mother has a saying, “ same soup warmed over”. There’s no difference between the two regimes other than the offensive philosophy.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Easterby does not hold more weight than O’Brien. This man managed to become HC, OC and GM. He is the one inside Cals head/ear. For all I know Easterby is here because of O’Brien. Look at the track record.

My mother has a saying, “ same soup warmed over”. There’s no difference between the two regimes other than the offensive philosophy.
And there were 2 constants.

Easterby was hired to do a full evaluation of who/how the McNair's org was run. This ended up with Easterby's friend BOB gaining more power.

Anyway, I'm just happy to know without a doubt who's in charge of the on the field product.

I bet yur mother makes some great soup. But 76 disagreeswith us on this one.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
My thing is Earl why don’t some people believe what O’Brien has stated on numerous occasions, “ it’s a collective decision “. I just don’t get it. Are they saying the man was lying his butt off?
Not saying you, but the anti-BoB crowd doesn't like to apply the logic evenly either. When we've won, that crowd is quick to give everyone credit but BoB. When we've lost, everyone gets a pass EXCEPT BoB...& that's my main issue with things around here. When we won pre-DW4 we're told by the Anti-BoB crowd "It's Crennel and the defense..BoB has nothing to do with that..." When we've won post-DW4 they've been telling us "DW4 is saving BoB's job.."

Let us lose though..then they tell us "The buck stops with him, so he's responsible for everything.." Lol, they can't have it both ways.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Not saying you, but the anti-BoB crowd doesn't like to apply the logic evenly either. When we've won, that crowd is quick to give everyone credit but BoB. When we've lost, everyone gets a pass EXCEPT BoB...& that's my main issue with things around here. When we won pre-DW4 we're told by the Anti-BoB crowd "It's Crennel and the defense..BoB has nothing to do with that..." When we've won post-DW4 they've been telling us "DW4 is saving BoB's job.."

Let us lose though..then they tell us "The buck stops with him, so he's responsible for everything.." Lol, they can't have it both ways.
I've never put any stock in OB's winning records. He's won while the Division has been at its weakest. RC more than saved OB's arse in the beginning b/c of his defense. Watson has been the primary connection to OB's success in spite of his pisspoor offensive gameplan.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
Not saying you, but the anti-BoB crowd doesn't like to apply the logic evenly either. When we've won, that crowd is quick to give everyone credit but BoB. When we've lost, everyone gets a pass EXCEPT BoB...& that's my main issue with things around here. When we won pre-DW4 we're told by the Anti-BoB crowd "It's Crennel and the defense..BoB has nothing to do with that..." When we've won post-DW4 they've been telling us "DW4 is saving BoB's job.."

Let us lose though..then they tell us "The buck stops with him, so he's responsible for everything.." Lol, they can't have it both ways.
I gave BoB the benefit of doubt for the first 3+ years, taking the same anti Rick Smith stance as Steel. But he lost me with these words- “It’s not my job” about something he had control over. He has done nothing since to win me back.

Personally, I still think he’s a good guy. But I have no love for his leadership skills.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I've never put any stock in OB's winning records. He's won while the Division has been at its weakest. RC more than saved OB's arse in the beginning b/c of his defense. Watson has been the primary connection to OB's success in spite of his pisspoor offensive gameplan.
Exhibit A. What HC do you know has been able to win without the above elements in place? There's only 1 i can think of, Paul Brown.....& he's the GOAT. So why penalize BoB for things that basically every winning HC that has ever roamed the sidelines has needed to win at the highest level?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I gave BoB the benefit of doubt for the first 3+ years, taking the same anti Rick Smith stance as Steel. But he lost me with these words- “It’s not my job” about something he had control over. He has done nothing since to win me back.

Personally, I still think he’s a good guy. But I have no love for his leadership skills.
His leadership skills? Lol, unless you're a player.....or have been a player in that locker room with him at some point, How can you really speak to his leadership skills? If you just went on what we have actually seen from him on the sidelines & how the players have repeatedly responded to him during seasons when the team has fallen into bad ruts, the logical conclusion 1 should come to is that he's an excellent leader. The players would've quit on him a long time ago if his skills as a leader were lacking.

the whole "its not my job" thing was for sure a bad look but if you've ever been a leader or in charge of developing something you know the frustrating feeling you get when you've delegated something to someone & that person fails you & leaves you holding the bag. That's what i gathered from that exchange. Clearly he depended on someone in that situation & they failed him & he got left holding the bag.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
His leadership skills? Lol, unless you're a player.....or have been a player in that locker room with him at some point, How can you really speak to his leadership skills? If you just went on what we have actually seen from him on the sidelines & how the players have repeatedly responded to him during seasons when the team has fallen into bad ruts, the logical conclusion 1 should come to is that he's an excellent leader. The players would've quit on him a long time ago if his skills as a leader were lacking.

the whole "its not my job" thing was for sure a bad look but if you've ever been a leader or in charge of developing something you know the frustrating feeling you get when you've delegated something to someone & that person fails you & leaves you holding the bag. That's what i gathered from that exchange. Clearly he depended on someone in that situation & they failed him & he got left holding the bag.
I stand by my thoughts on the subject and I can speak on anything relating to the Texans that I wish too. I don’t have to be in the locker room to form an opinion.
 


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