Most teams that lose their starting QB go in the toilet. Those that dont are the outlier. With the OL they had that yr this shouldn't surprise anybody.
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Most teams that lose their starting QB go in the toilet. Those that dont are the outlier. With the OL they had that yr this shouldn't surprise anybody.
texanhead08
All Pro
I will believe it when I see it because whenever it seems like he is finally on thin ice they give him more power. He will have a stake in ownership before next season with his good luck
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
If this is indeed the case, the team must either identify OB as a failure or Watson as a bust. As I've stated many times in the past.....Watson is a Franchise QB who's being coached and schemed down. OB has had a parade of QB's come through the door trying to run his version of the EP system.....to no avail. Watson comes in and he's having trouble with the same offense except for when OB makes adjustments and calls a game that closer fits Watson's skill set. His first 7 games were pretty special and the PPG were sick......what happen to that offense? Why wasn't it built upon? Worth asking, how much would that same offense be now that every position outside of Hopkins has been upgraded?
If OB can't figure out an offensive scheme that compliments DW4, then that is pure incompetence. All he has to do is look at Seattle. Could you imagine how successful DW4 would be under Pete Carroll?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO @ "run plays WHOEVER is comfortable with"
what QB plays in the "OBrien REgime" were a constant with the garbage ass guys that have jumped on the carousel here?? I'll wait. Which one of those guys was successful? I'll wait. The extent some will go to exalt OBrien and slander Watson is amazing.
what QB plays in the "OBrien REgime" were a constant with the garbage ass guys that have jumped on the carousel here?? I'll wait. Which one of those guys was successful? I'll wait. The extent some will go to exalt OBrien and slander Watson is amazing.
When you watch some of Watson's highlights, you notice the big play action passes. As predictable as the Texans running game is and as often as they run up the middle, you would think play action passes would be a big part of their offense.
However, they don't run it as much they should and when they do, you get ineffective play designs like the video below. Can anyone find a check down or a receiver in the middle of the field? Exactly what is Watson supposed to do on that play?
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DW4 is no Russell Wilson
It's both BOB/DW4 are both overrated IMHO.
The reason you aren't seeing that 7 game offense is defenses have made adjustments.
OB is not Pete Carroll either, unfortunately.
True
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
"OBrien doesnt run the same plays over and over fake news blah" .. patiently show them run logs and percentages showing outside vs inside penetration and success rates? "I dont believe in stats, I believe my own eyes".
Sigh.
"Run the ball, stop the run" ... LOL I mean that is deep space physics right there boys!!
Seriously though, if the TExans cant play AVERAGE against the run, then the play action will decimate the back end. OBrien and the offensive unit MUST BE READY TO PLAY from the first snap. No sleepy 1st Q. Show up prepared and ready to play or you will get embarrassed.
Sigh.
"Run the ball, stop the run" ... LOL I mean that is deep space physics right there boys!!
Seriously though, if the TExans cant play AVERAGE against the run, then the play action will decimate the back end. OBrien and the offensive unit MUST BE READY TO PLAY from the first snap. No sleepy 1st Q. Show up prepared and ready to play or you will get embarrassed.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Why do people keep quoting this dumb ass dude? Common sense would tell you that if they're in max protect as he says in his tweet, then you're automatically not going to have very many options out in route period let alone to threaten the middle of the field when its 2 on...6 basically. Really is an asinine take on his part and he typically borders on Adam Clanton levels of buffonery with his clearly biased takes.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Hey Tex: IF you could provide better content, had access to Texans news conferences and actually provided objective analysis I would follow you too.
That was just a poor design play.
Play action pass that neither ILBs bought. Why?
The protection looks like pass pro right at the outset.
That's a "trying to fool oneself" play
FIFY
dream_team
Hall of Fame
It doesn't change the fact that it was a poor play design from the get go. Why do max-protect on a PA? When you do PA to suck in the LBs, usually you have someone coming open in the middle of the field. In this case, we only had two receivers going deep on cover two. You could argue that DW should have seen the cover 2 pre-snap and checked out of it?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Only way I see that happening is if we lose out and miss the playoffs. Other than that get comfortable because he will be here at least another year.
Yep. We've been in agreement about various aspects of ownership for years. And it's time for the fan base to face the simple facts: the culture really does start at the top. The McNairs have the right to run this franchise however they see fit, but that doesn't necessarily mean they do it the right way.
It started from the beginning. Charlie Casserly was a kick me sign on Bob McNair's back from multiple owners. They sold him on Casserly, but never gave Charley another job in an NFL front office after he left the Texans (and he said he wanted one, but never got an offer).
Multiple sources confirmed that Carr was picked as a poster boy. They did not invest in an o-line to protect him or even a QB coach to teach him. It was all about posters and 3D souvenir cups.
And over the years, you can see the misalignment. Getting a new HC in Kubiak, but keeping a crap GM through his first draft. Then letting Kubiak pick his own GM.
That same GM would be here when they get a new head coach, one that was obviously not Smith's choice, and they were at odds with each other. Smith basically admitted that in an interview last year. Then the 17 month tenure of Gaine, and now consolidated power with a mediocre head coach that is also wearing the OC hat.
It's dysfunction from the top. And honestly, I have absolutely no expectation that this franchise will ever achieve greatness while they run the organization this way. There is no clear vision, no clear power structure, just this pliable, malleable blob of boardroom consensus that allows an alpha personality to consolidate power regardless if he deserves it or not.
Here's the bottom line for me: I don't think O'Brien is a bad coach, but he's not the right coach for the talent on this team (specifically at QB). This isn't the type of QB that he would have picked, and he's basically making due with what has been given to him.
And they will continue to struggle with inconsistency as long as they have this out-of-phase, misaligned match of scheme and talent. We will continue to see flashes of brilliance from everyone involved, but it will never be a dominant consistency that is required to win an NFL championship.
Look at what Wilson had that Deshaun doesn't:
2012 - Seahawks no. 1 in rushing attempts and 3rd in rushing yards gained; no. 1 in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed. Leon Washington All Pro as a returner. Solid kicking and punting game.
2013 - Seahawks 2nd in rushing attempts, 4th in rushing yards gained; no. 1 in both yards and points allowed. Golden Tate averaged 11.5 yd per punt return on 51 returns.
33-35 FGs, zero PAT missed.
2014 - Seahawks 2nd in rushing attempts, no. 1 in rushing yards gained; no. 1 in both points and yards allowed.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
While I agree with your point overall people need to stop bringing up those first 7 games like that would be how Watson played his entire career. Rookie QBs that are actual stars tend to have great rookie years because teams haven't yet figured out how to deal with them. We are even seeing it now with Jackson and Mahomes.
Mahomes is still a great QB but he's not having near the year he did last year because teams have started to figure out his strengths and weaknesses. This is Jackson first year as a full time starter and one reason they look so unstoppable is because frankly a team hasn't really figured out how to stop him. Next year will be a different story, its why BB sacrificed the second half of the Pats/Ravens game and just tried a bunch of different ideas. He was getting film on Jackson because he figures they would see him again in the playoffs.
I honestly believe if Watson had not gotten injured in 17 we would have gone to the AFCC and maybe even the SB because he was doing things that no one yet knew how to counter. DC got an off season to study his film and they started to learn how to counter him better.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Texansballer74
The Marine
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
The 7 games were those 7 games. Problem I have......OB wanted Watson to play in his stale offense that had zero history of success instead of building on the success he was having in the offense they ran during his first 7 games. That's on OB and his offensive staff that they didn't go back to the drawing board and incorporate a new playbook.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Do you realize how rare it is for any coach to "go back to the drawing board and incorporate a new playbook"? Reid has never done it, Payton doesn't do it, nor does Tomlin. The reason people are talking about the Ravens doing it is because it is so rare and unique. One thing that makes BB the GOAT is because his offense is so adjustable. It may sound easy but picture if you walked into your job tomorrow and your boss came up and said we need you do everything you have done and known for years completely different because we hired this new guy and we think it will really make him shine.
I'm not saying that OB shouldn't make adjustments but you are giving far to much credit to those first 7 games. Or do you think that the Jags game in London or the Chiefs game or the Pats game or the Falcons game were completely different playbooks? Do you really believe he has two different playbooks and picks which one he is going to call from each week?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
DW4 & Hyde's playfake on that play was absolutely horrible......so of course the ILB's didn't bite & that more or less doomed the play from the snap. But whether the ILB's did or didn't bite has nothing to do with play design..that is, say it with me EXECUTION...or lack thereof; in particular, DW4 and Hyde's part.
In retrospect, that might be the reason Stills ran the route he attempted to run (post) if what he had was an option route. Probably saw the ILB right there & broke it out. speculation of course.
The bad part of that play design is singling Fells/Akins up on Vonn Miller. But then i don't know if you can say that either as Denver probably saw something on tape and worked it into their gameplan.
Agree about Watson and Hyde.
But the movement of the line is most critical.
If it draws the LBs for just a fraction of a second, it could freeze the safety (ies) temporarily.
Overall, it's just poor teaching of how things should be done to make a play successful.
When all of the players don't "execute", it must mean that the concept was either not understood well by the coaches or badly taught to the players.
Or it was simply a haphazard scheme/play design.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Your whole premise is based on the idea that there was some different offense we were running in those 7 games. I'm convinced that it wasn't a different offense but rather a young qb taking the league by storm and making plays....off script. We've seen that time & time again with young qbs...Baker Mayfield just last year. And like the league always does, it adjusts...& he has as well. He doesn't run........or even look to run nearly as much as he did in his rookie year. He actually seems like he doesn't want to.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Don't know if you can say that fully though. This is basic stuff. you learn how to really sell a play fake as a qb/rb in high school. You could maybe get on BoB & the offensive staff for not emphasizing the importance of the play fake in that play....but do you really believe that BoB & co. didn't or haven't in the past?
Yeah, but then we'll just gripe about the next chump that Cal hires because he lacks the experience and expertise to put together a cohesive front office and coaching staff.
Unfortunately, I have zero confidence that Cal knows how to do anything other than give O'Brien what he wants and cash those checks. He'll have to prove otherwise for me to change my mind.
Here's the article about firing Gaine. Notice what is missing from it. It was all O'Brien articulating "Cal's vision for success". Oh, he wants to win. Freakin' no brainer stuff, but all hat and no cattle.
I've been on a few coaching forums over the years, reading stuffs.
Nobody knows everything.
There are many NFL coaches that are much younger than the veterans on those boards.
That's why they have a gazillion books, videos, etc. out there teaching all kinds of things.
The devils are in the details.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There's no requisite time to use play action and when not to. We have actually seen that play work out of max pro.
That play was doomed from the start b/c the playfake was so awful, the ILB's didn't bite...not even 1 step towards the LOS. I actually think DW4 was looking for Stills in the middle, he just ran the wrong route. Watch DW4's head movement. He comes out of the playfake looking to his left. You would presume its b/c he's looking for Nuk, but Nuk didn't do ANYTHING on that play but get out of the way. So then you guess its b/c of Miller's pressure & i think that's just a coincidence. He was looking that way b/c he was trying to move the safety/LB left so that he could widen the window in the middle to get it to Stills...which he successfully did. There's just 1 problem: Stills didn't run that deep over across the middle, he ran a post the opposite way...which left DW4 in a lurch. By the time he looks to his right for Stills, there's nobody there.
If he runs the right route that play was still there to be had despite the bad playfake b/c the LB's didn't get enough depth down the middle. Would've been like 10 yards between Stills & those ILB's.
At least some of the words and names would change
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Makes sense if Stills ran the wrong route. Would have still like to have seen more than just 2 receivers out on a route there. Maybe a TE was supposed to release there but didn't?
Running wrong routes is a common theme for this offense.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Well Hyde did release late off the playfake & was presumably DW4's dump off route. but hard to get many guys out when you're in max pro like that.
& its only like this imo b/c the guy he has perhaps the best chemistry with (WFV) is always out & as a result, we're constantly having to rely on guys that are relatively new to the offense in 1 form or fashion. Last year when WFV was out, it was Coutee & Vycint Smith. this year its Stills a guy who wasn't here until the beginning of the season & we even saw Steven Mitchell get some starts.
When WFV is on the field, DW4 & the offense run seamlessly.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
beautiful thing about football is you don’t ever need to play the game if you love it and want to become a student. Even better it’s a constantly gyrating mass of changing philosophies and ideas at your beck and call while we exist in the Information Age. You literally learn new things each year. Fundamental principles are still - fundamental.
there is a new HBO documentary Belichick & Saban that just came out - I haven’t seen it in its entirety yet, but a clip of them after they thought the cameras were stopped surfaced and here are two of the most accomplished coaches just talking shop, asking each other how they play certain alignments and I found it really genuine and revealing at the same time. It never stops if it’s a passion! I’ll try to find the video, but it’s the HBO documentary that either just came out or is coming out soon.
I'm leery of Roman, he hasn't been successful anywhere he's been until this year with LJ.
Not saying I disagree with you.
Still waiting for a torrent from TenYard.
Watson on those Seahawks teams would be illegal.
Actually, he was the OC when the 49ers went to the SB with Kaepernick.
So, if Cal won’t hire him, can we set up a gofundme to get him in here? Sign petitions to let go of OB?
banned1976
sleeper mode
So, if Cal won’t hire him, can we set up a gofundme to get him in here? Sign petitions to let go of OB?
ha! I'm afraid that O'Brien has pictures of Cal or something. . .
Interesting factoid about Roman: he was a Texans TE coach in 2002-2005.
Let's give him a try then.
I'm open to anything at this point.
Enough with the mediocrity. I've been saying this for years.
Wish I could like this post 1,000 times
Yep. I wish I knew as much about the power structures of other teams as I do with the Texans. Mainly, I'm curious if the boardroom consensus model has ever bred a championship team. If anyone knows, please tell me. I'm always welcoming to information.
I tend to be old school (i.e. owner>GM>HC power structure). For instance, I like what the 49ers did with John Lynch. They hired him as a GM, and then he goes and helps them find a HC that aligns with his vision for the team. He's not out there getting a QB and telling Shanahan to just adapt to it because the owner said get a QB. They work together as a team to put the roster together, and they have a partnership that compliments each other.
What we know with O'Brien is that he was never on the same page as Rick Smith, and apparently Brian Gaine, as well. It's just weird, and the sort of dysfunction that I believe creates the inconsistencies.
I've got a couple of recent articles with Cal the past year, and it literally sounds like corporate press releases after a quarterly revenue review. He says words, but they do not mean much of anything. He's an empty suit, IMO.
Remember this quote from Cal? In my opinion a perfect example of corporate doublespeak if there ever was one.
"We've been really busy working on [team management] this offseason. It's a flatter organization with a faster management style. The organization is totally re-energized with a team-based approach and new leadership based on sub programs with each sub program being fully optimized as a goal."
Well, that was his statement after they fired Gaines and failed to get Caserio. So I guess it means "We fired Gaines & Kraft kicked me in the balls when I tried to hire Nick Caserio".
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