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Texans: Derek Stingley Jr.

badboy said:
But Gardner did not have those. True every player with zero injuries has the chance of being hurt. However with a player that has a severe injury or repetitive injuries like Tytus Howard, cannot be evaluated the same as one with no injuries.
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OK, so if Stingley does not miss significant time, he gets paid. Right?
 
Lucky said:
OK, so if Stingley does not miss significant time, he gets paid. Right?
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Yes but... when. Not comparing Stingley with Jalen Green, but contract extensions may be similar that Caserio might want to wait into 2025 to extend. He has the season 5 option if needed but I do not expect him to use it. I think we saw with Nico Collins how Nick prefers to negotiate.
 
Lucky said:
OK, so if Stingley does not miss significant time, he gets paid. Right?
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Yes but wouldn’t his injury history lower his ability to net a “max” type of contract… even if he was the #1 corner in the league. I can’t see them guaranteeing his money on the same level as the #2 corner in the league (whoever it may be)!284) with zero injury history. Stingley’s injury was pretty severe and it has to carry some weight on a long term guaranteed contract.
 
NitroGSXR said:
Yes but wouldn’t his injury history lower his ability to net a “max” type of contract…
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The Texans are the only team that could offer Stingley any kind of contract until after 2026. So either Stingley will be considered injury prone and not receive a top contract or those issues will be behind him and will be a top CB with a price tag to match. If the Texans extend Stingley after this season, it will be cheaper than after 2025. And who knows how high the franchise tag will be after 2026. The cost effective, smarter move is to extend after this season.
 
Lucky said:
Who's pinching pennies now? Remember, it would be an extension to Stingley. The big cap hits would be a couple of years away.
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You want to sign Diggs to a long term deal, knowing that Stingley, Harris and of course Stroud's record setting deal will be happening in a couple of yrs.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans are the only team that could offer Stingley any kind of contract until after 2026. So either Stingley will be considered injury prone and not receive a top contract or those issues will be behind him and will be a top CB with a price tag to match. If the Texans extend Stingley after this season, it will be cheaper than after 2025. And who knows how high the franchise tag will be after 2026. The cost effective, smarter move is to extend after this season.
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Agreed.
 
badboy said:
Yes but... when. Not comparing Stingley with Jalen Green, but contract extensions may be similar that Caserio might want to wait into 2025 to extend. He has the season 5 option if needed but I do not expect him to use it. I think we saw with Nico Collins how Nick prefers to negotiate.
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I definitely expect him to use the year 5 option. Feels foolish not to and comparing it to Nico doesn't make sense as Nico didn't have a 5th year option.
 
Sweech said:
I definitely expect him to use the year 5 option. Feels foolish not to and comparing it to Nico doesn't make sense as Nico didn't have a 5th year option.
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My statement about Nick and Collins was our GM prefers to negotiate extension before the contract expires apparently.
 
badboy said:
My statement about Nick and Collins was our GM prefers to negotiate extension before the contract expires apparently.
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Oh fair. I'd still expect them to go the 5th year route and then extend during that summer, which is fairly common for star players.
 
Sweech said:
Oh fair. I'd still expect them to go the 5th year route and then extend during that summer, which is fairly common for star players.
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Under many circumstances, I agree. All the way back seemingly many years ago although it wasn't, I was upset that the Texans extended that player who embarrassed and disgusted most of the city.
 
Porky said:
Steel B will love this...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828108589812306314
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giphy.gif
 
JWLCASPER said:
May as well get back into bed with him. He also represents Stroud. We will be dealing with him for quite a while. He’s the new age Drew Rosenhaus - you may not like him, but if you want to keep your talented players you are going to have to play that game…
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Yep and can't blame the players. They want to make $ and he's shown he's the top guy at doing that.
 
JWLCASPER said:
May as well get back into bed with him. He also represents Stroud. We will be dealing with him for quite a while. He’s the new age Drew Rosenhaus - you may not like him, but if you want to keep your talented players you are going to have to play that game…
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Exactly, the Texans knew the price for getting in bed with this racist piece of trash. They're going to pay the price for this decision in a couple of years.
 
Sweech said:
Yep and can't blame the players. They want to make $ and he's shown he's the top guy at doing that.
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Blame management. They're all in on David from the place that will get you banned for speaking about around here.
 
badboy said:
This season Stingley's ability to avoid injury will be significant in negotiating early. A great season and he will get that type of deal. The foot causing him to miss more than 3-4 games may cause Nick to be reluctant and negotiate after year 4; initiating club option for year 5.

Along with his play, having a weak Corner corps with someone to take his spot is to his advantage. Extending Derek will only lessen not eliminate drafting a corner day 2.
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sports.yahoo.com

Dolphins CB Jalen Ramsey agrees to 3-year, $72.3 million extension to stay in Miami

With the new deal, Ramsey is now the highest-paid cornerback in the NFL.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

With the new deal, Ramsey is now the highest-paid cornerback in the NFL.

Another encouragement for Sting!
 
steelbtexan said:
Blame management. They're all in on David from the place that will get you banned for speaking about around here.
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cant blame anyone...players choose the agent and management has to deal with them whether they like it or not...and players go for whoever is gonna fight the hardest to get them paid the most....thats the nature of the business and the reason why teams lose/let good players walk all the time...sometimes the price tag is detrimental to the growth or development of the team.
 
steelbtexan said:
Exactly, the Texans knew the price for getting in bed with this racist piece of trash. They're going to pay the price for this decision in a couple of years.
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Caserio is on record that he has no issues in dealing with David Mulugheta's clients. And that has proven to be true. I'm going to trust Nick on this one. Why are people always doubting and questioning Nick Caserio?
 
Lucky said:
Caserio is on record that he has no issues in dealing with David Mulugheta's clients. And that has proven to be true. I'm going to trust Nick on this one. Why are people always doubting and questioning Nick Caserio?
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Because he’s in charge of -my- effin’ team!

:)
 
Been re-watching the first two games and one thing that jumped out was Derek is just trying too hard to get picks. He's played well but offensive coordinators are going to notice that and he's going to get picked on. I think the hype is getting to him a little and he really wants the accolades, but he's gotta let it come naturally. If he just calms it down that stuff is going to happen for him because he's just that good. He's been way too susceptible to getting beat on double moves and on over relying on reading the QBs' drop back.

Instead of trying to hunt for picks just play the game - The pick he got against Chicago came this way.

Justin Jefferson is up next and if you make those mistakes you'll get burnt and burnt bad.
 
Sweech said:
Been re-watching the first two games and one thing that jumped out was Derek is just trying too hard to get picks. He's played well but offensive coordinators are going to notice that and he's going to get picked on. I think the hype is getting to him a little and he really wants the accolades, but he's gotta let it come naturally. If he just calms it down that stuff is going to happen for him because he's just that good. He's been way too susceptible to getting beat on double moves and on over relying on reading the QBs' drop back.

Instead of trying to hunt for picks just play the game - The pick he got against Chicago came this way.

Justin Jefferson is up next and if you make those mistakes you'll get burnt and burnt bad.
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Even though he had a pick last game I didn't think he played all that well. He missed a few tackles as well and normally that's a strong suit of Stingley's. Although D.J. Moore is a hard guy to get on the ground.
 
Ehh, offense and defense to a degree…..but mostly defense is about imposing your will. Making them do what they don’t want to. And a key element with all offenses is its timing and 1 of the most effective ways to disrupt an offense as a defense is to disrupt its timing. key to understanding that timing is the qb’s drop…so it IS a good indicator for a cb to hone in on when defending b/c it gives you an idea of how fast the ball is supposed to be coming out. Sure, every team’s offense has a sub package of a few plays where they mismatch the qbs drop and the depth of the WR’s routes, but for the most part the qb’s drop is a pretty good indicator of how fast the ball is supposed to come out & its timing. You combine this tenet of offensive play with the knowledge of what you’ve gleaned from film study…& you’ll have a pretty good idea of what your opposition likes to do in certain situations.

I’d be concerned if you only saw Stingley doing this…but You’ve also seen Lassiter aggressive on the short stuff too in his young career. So My guess is Meco wants them attacking the short stuff in front of them like that. 1, b/c It fits perfectly with his “SWARM” philosophy. 2, b/c You get the QB/OC/HC thinking that they can perhaps use that over-aggressiveness against you by throwing the ball over your heads with stick nod routes etc…Well if they get that notion, more often than not, it will mean the QB will be holding the ball a little longer waiting for longer routes to develop …which more often than not, usually means that the d-line will now have more time to get home for sacks and other things that can disrupt an offenses timing…like moving a qb off his spot. Imposing your will.
 
Mr teX said:
Ehh, offense and defense to a degree…..but mostly defense is about imposing your will. Making them do what they don’t want to. And a key element with all offenses is its timing and 1 of the most effective ways to disrupt an offense as a defense is to disrupt its timing. key to understanding that timing is the qb’s drop…so it IS a good indicator for a cb to hone in on when defending b/c it gives you an idea of how fast the ball is supposed to be coming out. Sure, every team’s offense has a sub package of a few plays where they mismatch the qbs drop and the depth of the WR’s routes, but for the most part the qb’s drop is a pretty good indicator of how fast the ball is supposed to come out & its timing. You combine this tenet of offensive play with the knowledge of what you’ve gleaned from film study…& you’ll have a pretty good idea of what your opposition likes to do in certain situations.

I’d be concerned if you only saw Stingley doing this…but You’ve also seen Lassiter aggressive on the short stuff too in his young career. So My guess is Meco wants them attacking the short stuff in front of them like that. 1, b/c It fits perfectly with his “SWARM” philosophy. 2, b/c You get the QB/OC/HC thinking that they can perhaps use that over-aggressiveness against you by throwing the ball over your heads with stick nod routes etc…Well if they get that notion, more often than not, it will mean the QB will be holding the ball a little longer waiting for longer routes to develop …which more often than not, usually means that the d-line will now have more time to get home for sacks and other things that can disrupt an offenses timing…like moving a qb off his spot. Imposing your will.
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Yeah, this is why the safety play is so important in the swarm defense. I would say that adding Bullock and Ward being healthy have been huge when it comes to playing the type of defenses that Ryans wants to play. I know AR burned the safeties a couple of times, but you get my drift.

On a side note, I watched Flores defense against the 49ers and he gave Purdy some real exotic looks that messed with the timing of the 49ers offense. The Texans should be able to move the ball some, but Flores gives the opposing QB's so many different looks there will be mistakes in reading coverages. hopefully this doesn't lead to picks.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Yeah, this is why the safety play is so important in the swarm defense. I would say that adding Bullock and Ward being healthy have been huge when it comes to playing the type of defenses that Ryans wants to play. I know AR burned the safeties a couple of times, but you get my drift.

On a side note, I watched Flores defense against the 49ers and he gave Purdy some real exotic looks that messed with the timing of the 49ers offense. The Texans should be able to move the ball some, but Flores gives the opposing QB's so many different looks there will be mistakes in reading coverages. hopefully this doesn't lead to picks.
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And even with those exotic looks the 49ers still managed 421 yards of total offense. The 49ers had two fumbles, an interception and their punt blocked.


With that being said, “ limit the mistakes/turnovers”, the Texans should be able to come away with a victory.
 
Mr teX said:
Ehh, offense and defense to a degree…..but mostly defense is about imposing your will. Making them do what they don’t want to. And a key element with all offenses is its timing and 1 of the most effective ways to disrupt an offense as a defense is to disrupt its timing. key to understanding that timing is the qb’s drop…so it IS a good indicator for a cb to hone in on when defending b/c it gives you an idea of how fast the ball is supposed to be coming out. Sure, every team’s offense has a sub package of a few plays where they mismatch the qbs drop and the depth of the WR’s routes, but for the most part the qb’s drop is a pretty good indicator of how fast the ball is supposed to come out & its timing. You combine this tenet of offensive play with the knowledge of what you’ve gleaned from film study…& you’ll have a pretty good idea of what your opposition likes to do in certain situations.

I’d be concerned if you only saw Stingley doing this…but You’ve also seen Lassiter aggressive on the short stuff too in his young career. So My guess is Meco wants them attacking the short stuff in front of them like that. 1, b/c It fits perfectly with his “SWARM” philosophy. 2, b/c You get the QB/OC/HC thinking that they can perhaps use that over-aggressiveness against you by throwing the ball over your heads with stick nod routes etc…Well if they get that notion, more often than not, it will mean the QB will be holding the ball a little longer waiting for longer routes to develop …which more often than not, usually means that the d-line will now have more time to get home for sacks and other things that can disrupt an offenses timing…like moving a qb off his spot. Imposing your will.
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The issue is when Stingley is doing it on blitzes with zero help behind him.
 
I will be okay with less than 420 yd offensively, if we can get more touchdowns.
I was correct on the three interceptions I predicted before the last game, so I'm going out on the limb and saying Stingley will have two interceptions this game.
What I will not do is predict how our running backs or offensive line will do.
 
Sweech said:
The issue is when Stingley is doing it on blitzes with zero help behind him.
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on blitzes, you’re working under the premise that the rush is either gonna get home & prevent a throw all together, or that the ball is gonna come out quickly on some hot read type of route….thats prime time to possibly get an int if you play it right. So it’s still really not abnormal for a cb to be jumping the underneath stuff like that in those scenarios.

Some D. Coordinators like for their players to keep everything in front of them with bend don’t break defensive philosophies..(Lovie Smith, Dungy and the Tampa 2) some like to try to confuse you (Belichick, Flores) …. and some attack with reckless abandonment with schemed up blitzes…Jim Schwartz. Meco’s Philosophy seems to be attack at all times, but instead of using his scheme to do it with heavy blitzing, he’s relying/allowing his players with their skill to be in attack mode within the base scheme. These guys are out there hunting the football...allowing them to set up qbs by baiting them into throws…similar to how a DE sets up a tackle for a pass rush move at an opportune time within a downs sequence. So there is gonna be some gambling at times.

I don’t have a problem with it. Every CB will get beat from time to time…the other guys on offense get paid too. Now if it starts to become a recurring thing where he’s getting beat for TD’s and/or in key 3rd and long situations, then I’ll worry.

But as good as Moore is, he only had 53 yds receiving against Sting and some of that yardage did come off a couple of missed tackles, but imo nothing to be alarmed about. Moore is a load to bring down, he’s got Sting by 15-20 lbs.
 
Mr teX said:
on blitzes, you’re working under the premise that the rush is either gonna get home & prevent a throw all together, or that the ball is gonna come out quickly on some hot read type of route….thats prime time to possibly get an int if you play it right. So it’s still really not abnormal for a cb to be jumping the underneath stuff like that in those scenarios.

Some D. Coordinators like for their players to keep everything in front of them with bend don’t break defensive philosophies..(Lovie Smith, Dungy and the Tampa 2) some like to try to confuse you (Belichick, Flores) …. and some attack with reckless abandonment with schemed up blitzes…Jim Schwartz. Meco’s Philosophy seems to be attack at all times, but instead of using his scheme to do it with heavy blitzing, he’s relying/allowing his players with their skill to be in attack mode within the base scheme. These guys are out there hunting the football...allowing them to set up qbs by baiting them into throws…similar to how a DE sets up a tackle for a pass rush move at an opportune time within a downs sequence. So there is gonna be some gambling at times.

I don’t have a problem with it. Every CB will get beat from time to time…the other guys on offense get paid too. Now if it starts to become a recurring thing where he’s getting beat for TD’s and/or in key 3rd and long situations, then I’ll worry.

But as good as Moore is, he only had 53 yds receiving against Sting and some of that yardage did come off a couple of missed tackles, but imo nothing to be alarmed about. Moore is a load to bring down, he’s got Sting by 15-20 lbs.
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It's moreso I'm watching the tape and just looking at Stingley like you are so lucky that the QB didn't throw at you because you would have been torched.

For me Stingley is better than that. He's good enough to not have to play a gambler's game and can instead create turnovers with his freakish ability instead.

I just think right now he's trying too hard. Maybe Demeco changed the keys or what he wants but this is not what we were watching last season.
 
Sweech said:
It's moreso I'm watching the tape and just looking at Stingley like you are so lucky that the QB didn't throw at you because you would have been torched.

For me Stingley is better than that. He's good enough to not have to play a gambler's game and can instead create turnovers with his freakish ability instead.

I just think right now he's trying too hard. Maybe Demeco changed the keys or what he wants but this is not what we were watching last season.
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Most cbs gamble. The best gamble we’ll b/c Baiting qb’s is part of the position.

Here’s the all pro we just played Jaylon Johnson on Richard Sherman’s podcast talking about how he went gambling and came up with an int.


Not coincidentally, here’s CJ talking to Johnson last week right before the game regarding that same part in the Richard Sherman podcast with Johnson.… and b/c CJ is such a football junkie, he was absolutely right in what he told Johnson in that “you not getting me!”

 
Mr teX said:
Most cbs gamble. The best gamble we’ll b/c Baiting qb’s is part of the position.

Here’s the all pro we just played Jaylon Johnson on Richard Sherman’s podcast talking about how he went gambling and came up with an int.


Not coincidentally, here’s CJ talking to Johnson last week right before the game regarding that same part in the Richard Sherman podcast with Johnson.… and b/c CJ is such a football junkie, he was absolutely right in what he told Johnson in that “you not getting me!”

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I feel like you're intentionally missing what I'm saying. He doesn't have to gamble as much as he is and if he continues to do so he's going to get punished. Simple as that.

I'm not saying he should never gamble or that other great players don't. I'm saying he's doing it more than before and for his talent he doesn't need to and he's walking a fine line that will get found it.

His talent is such that he doesn't have to play the game like he's Marcus Peters to make plays.
 
Sweech said:
I feel like you're intentionally missing what I'm saying. He doesn't have to gamble as much as he is and if he continues to do so he's going to get punished. Simple as that.

I'm not saying he should never gamble or that other great players don't. I'm saying he's doing it more than before and for his talent he doesn't need to and he's walking a fine line that will get found it.

His talent is such that he doesn't have to play the game like he's Marcus Peters to make plays.
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lol Peters is one of the dumbest players to play and he tended to gamble stupidly. He also didn't have make up/closing speed to recover..dude ran a 4.5. Once you got by him he couldn’t catch up. Sauce…as good as he is is honestly similar..except he doesn’t gamble a whole lot and uses his hands to keep u from running away from him. …but that’s also why he doesn’t have a lot of ints either.

I’m not missing anything you’re saying, I understand what you’re trying to say, I just think you’re sort of over analyzing. I don’t think he or any of those back end guys are gambling any more than they normally would.

And a huge part of Stingley’s talent that you’re speaking of is how he can close on a WR fast when the ball gets thrown his way and his elite ball skills to be able to take it away.

You watch film. Go watch all his ints from last year. Hell, go watch his ints from the preseason. Go back and rewatch that 1st TD Richardson threw. Based on where he was when that ball was thrown, Ward, not Stingley should’ve had the best shot at making a play on it. Instead, Stingley was the guy who had closed enough and just narrowly missed knocking that ball down as he’d ran right past Ward’s flat footed ass.
 
Mr teX said:
lol Peters is one of the dumbest players to play and he tended to gamble stupidly. He also didn't have make up/closing speed to recover..dude ran a 4.5. Once you got by him he couldn’t catch up. Sauce…as good as he is is honestly similar..except he doesn’t gamble a whole lot and uses his hands to keep u from running away from him. …but that’s also why he doesn’t have a lot of ints either.

I’m not missing anything you’re saying, I understand what you’re trying to say, I just think you’re sort of over analyzing. I don’t think he or any of those back end guys are gambling any more than they normally would.

And a huge part of Stingley’s talent that you’re speaking of is how he can close on a WR fast when the ball gets thrown his way and his elite ball skills to be able to take it away.

You watch film. Go watch all his ints from last year. Hell, go watch his ints from the preseason. Go back and rewatch that 1st TD Richardson threw. Based on where he was when that ball was thrown, Ward, not Stingley should’ve had the best shot at making a play on it. Instead, Stingley was the guy who had closed enough and just narrowly missed knocking that ball down as he’d ran right past Ward’s flat footed ass.
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Your last paragraph is exactly my point. All of Stingley's INTs basically come from staying in the WRs hip and not gambling and biting on things. Dang near every single one is him staying underneath and the ball being thrown where he can undercut it. One is him leaving his zone after the ball is in the air - it's a great play but it's not a gamble. Only one was him biting down in the flat and that one may still have beaten him but Will Anderson tipped it.

Absolutely none come from biting and recovering and we've really only seen one in preseason vs Daniel Jones come off biting - I do not count preseason. I'll even give you the Will Anderson tip ball but then that's still only one.

This is literally my point. All his plays come from playing sound and in the receivers hip and not making gambles. I don't even mind him reading the drop and attacking the flat, but it's not a great idea to do that with zero help behind you - that's hoping so much that the blitz gets there and most of the league runs those as choice routes at this point with a deep option.
 
Sweech said:
Your last paragraph is exactly my point. All of Stingley's INTs basically come from staying in the WRs hip and not gambling and biting on things. Dang near every single one is him staying underneath and the ball being thrown where he can undercut it. One is him leaving his zone after the ball is in the air - it's a great play but it's not a gamble. Only one was him biting down in the flat and that one may still have beaten him but Will Anderson tipped it.

Absolutely none come from biting and recovering and we've really only seen one in preseason vs Daniel Jones come off biting - I do not count preseason. I'll even give you the Will Anderson tip ball but then that's still only one.

This is literally my point. All his plays come from playing sound and in the receivers hip and not making gambles. I don't even mind him reading the drop and attacking the flat, but it's not a great idea to do that with zero help behind you - that's hoping so much that the blitz gets there and most of the league runs those as choice routes at this point with a deep option.
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Bro…no This is not true. He was not in the hip pocket of the WR on his 1st int in the AZ game he was really just flat out beat honestly. But b/c it was slightly under thrown he was able to recover enough to make a play on it…& he wasn’t gambling at all on it either it was just a well schemed up play by AZ that took Ward out of position.

His 2nd int in Denver he was CLEARLY gambling..he baited Wilson by sagging off the WR 5+ yards…that ain’t hip pocket bro. Once the ball was thrown he closed ferociously and was able to undercut it for the int. But even how he closed was a gamble. If he miss times his jump and misses the ball, or if Wilson sees it earlier and throws it more on a line that’s going for a TD.

There are more than a few plays on this reel from last year that shows him gambling and biting on stuff & I don’t believe he’s doing it anymore now than he was last year..especially in that AZ game.


His ability to close and play the ball in the air pretty much like a WR is a skill in and of itself.
 
When a defensive back intercepts it is a turnover. When a defensive back gets beat it's often a touchdown. If the interception is there, go for it but keep the gambling down.
 
badboy said:
When a defensive back intercepts it is a turnover. When a defensive back gets beat it's often a touchdown. If the interception is there, go for it but keep the gambling down.
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You usually don’t get ints as a CB without gambling a little. Yes Gambling every 3rd and long isn’t warranted. That’s what Peters and Cromartie used to do. Smart CB’s know how to be measured in their gambling/baiting.
 
Mr teX said:
You usually don’t get ints as a CB without gambling a little. Yes Gambling every 3rd and long isn’t warranted. That’s what Peters and Cromartie used to do. Smart CB’s know how to be measured in their gambling/baiting.
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Sting has six interceptions since the beginning of last season. I don't recall him gambling much on any of them.
 
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