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Texans Offensive Line

I don't truly hate the idea of, in a vacuum, trading Tunsil for Joe Alt/Olu and like a day 2 pick but there are a few issues. Aside from the obvious issue of course which is trading away a proven player at a premium position in hopes of drafting a prospect.

The most fundamental is if we would do that why would another team do it? Just from looking at a few big boards it looks like Joe Alt is projected to go at like 6. Teams at the top of the draft are not in a position to be trading away picks for players, in fact it's usually the other way around. Those teams are starting a rebuild and probably don't feel like it's the right move to take on a large contract for an ageing player when they could instead draft a young prospect who fits their timeline.

That leads to the next issue which is our timeline. With Stroud already performing like this and the defense playing decent football despite injuries and some roster holes the hope is that we have opened up a 4-5 year window here where we can compete at the top of the AFC. What if we draft Alt and he struggles year 1 (as many rookies do) and causes the offense to regress.

Young prospects are great but when you are looking to really compete these next few years you don't just start trading away your top players.
 
Khelar said:
I don't truly hate the idea of, in a vacuum, trading Tunsil for Joe Alt/Olu and like a day 2 pick but there are a few issues. Aside from the obvious issue of course which is trading away a proven player at a premium position in hopes of drafting a prospect.

The most fundamental is if we would do that why would another team do it? Just from looking at a few big boards it looks like Joe Alt is projected to go at like 6. Teams at the top of the draft are not in a position to be trading away picks for players, in fact it's usually the other way around. Those teams are starting a rebuild and probably don't feel like it's the right move to take on a large contract for an ageing player when they could instead draft a young prospect who fits their timeline.

That leads to the next issue which is our timeline. With Stroud already performing like this and the defense playing decent football despite injuries and some roster holes the hope is that we have opened up a 4-5 year window here where we can compete at the top of the AFC. What if we draft Alt and he struggles year 1 (as many rookies do) and causes the offense to regress.

Young prospects are great but when you are looking to really compete these next few years you don't just start trading away your top players.
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Look at the 1st 3 oline players drafted in 2022. None of those guys are on Tunsil level. We witnessed Greenard abusing the Panthers LT. Neal from the Giants have been a disaster.
 
Number19 said:
Williams signed his contract in 2021; Tunsil signed his extension this year.

2024....Tunsil.........$25.9M
2024....Williams.....$31.6M

Does this make you happier?
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That’s alluded to on the bottom of my post. Williams will ascend to being the top paid LT/OT in 2024…..and deservedly so. Williams, even at his age is a “complete” LT. Tunsil, at his age will always be a soft one-trick pony at LT. I understand all the ranking/grading services, but I still prefer the eye test best of all.

As for this season, Tunsil certainly hasn’t given me the warm and fuzzies when protecting Stroud’s blind side. I was pleasantly surprised when the LT replacements actually did as good if not a better job in protecting Stroud in passing situations.
 
I read somewhere that CJ Stroud has the 2nd longest time to throw in the league now, there’s a lot of chatter about what isn’t working on the OL, but actually they are one of the best pass pro units in the league, and because the deep routes are giving Ds fits, it now seems we are able to get a run game, also.

Howard seems to be at LG because Fant is a better RT than whatever practice squad fodder they have available to play LG.
 
I'm just going to jump in here and say this about Fant.

Did anyone notice that it was FANT who tackled the LB on that second interception? Fant was HUSTLING.

The way he's been playing, it's going to be hard for Howard to re-take that position and Howard ain't cutting it at LG.

Overall, the line in whatever permutation of players except for Dieter playing RT has been playing lights out. Even with Howard at LG.
 
pirbroke said:
So I know we spent some draft capital on the offensive line again last draft but had some unfortunate injuries. When they are all healthy are we done with high picks on the line? Is everyone going to recover 100% ? What’s the weakest spot?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Just my thoughts: Tunsil is a pass blocking beast and I expect battle plan going forward is to allow CJ to air it. We have the targets (I want one more as several quality guys are in this next draft). Tytus is good at PB at right tackle and our foul up with Kenyon forces him out of position. Fant has shocked me playing much better than I expected. 667 snaps at RT 66% and his $2.7 m cap hit compares to Howards ~$7m. He will get new contract but where? I continue to see Juice Scruggs as our center and Patterson LG for future. Mason isn't going anywhere
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'm just going to jump in here and say this about Fant.

Did anyone notice that it was FANT who tackled the LB on that second interception? Fant was HUSTLING.

The way he's been playing, it's going to be hard for Howard to re-take that position and Howard ain't cutting it at LG.

Overall, the line in whatever permutation of players except for Dieter playing RT has been playing lights out. Even with Howard at LG.
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Houston, we have a problem.

Fant was only signed for 2023 and will be an UFA. Howard, on the other hand, just signed a 3 year extension for $56M.

Fant will want to get paid on what could be his last contract. Next year will be his 9th year.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If....and that's a big if, Tunsil was the COMPLETE LT he's being paid (#1) to be, there would be no discussion. He's a soft one-trick pony who's the highest paid LT in the NFL.

When the team can't get many rushing yards over the left side, it's going to allow defenses to stack the box and blitz the QB. Over the last three games, Slowick has adjusted his scheme to be more run oriented in the second half....defenses know this is coming and straight-up adjust to stacking the box and for some odd-ball reason, the run game goes to shite and momentum seems to swing the other way.

For the money being paid to the LT position.....is it that far out of line to expect a dual threat LT?
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TBF, Tunsil is playing though a knee injury (which should answer some critics of him not playing thru finger injury end of 22). Caserio knew Tunsil's weakness as RB when he agree to latest extension so LT not being paid to be a complete tackle. We want him to be but he isn't. He is paid to pass block and with Stroud refusing to step out of his Super Man role, fans should be glad we have LT.

If Slowik is shifting to more run oriented second half, that is on him. We have a high octane QB with very good targets and IMO, we should not veer from that. Stomped that accelerator thru the floor!!
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'm just going to jump in here and say this about Fant.

Did anyone notice that it was FANT who tackled the LB on that second interception? Fant was HUSTLING.

The way he's been playing, it's going to be hard for Howard to re-take that position and Howard ain't cutting it at LG.

Overall, the line in whatever permutation of players except for Dieter playing RT has been playing lights out. Even with Howard at LG.
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It's not going to be hard. They know Howard isn't a guard. He's playing out of position. After the season, Howard is going back to rt and Fant can be depth. They're probably going to continue the Green experiment much like they did with Stingley. The high draft picks are going to get the benefit of the doubt. If anything, Fant probably took Heck spot as a swing tackle.
 
santo said:
Don’t forget Badboy. :winky:
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YEAH!! Seriously I have no problem with Op or anyone suggesting/discussing trades. Some of you act like you have adopted these guys. I don't recall ever suggesting a trade of a Texan just because but will consider every offer as does Caserio. Of course it take a partner and has to be to Texans advantage. If I can get 4-5 starters for one of ours, I will usually be good with that. Tunsil isn't going anywhere this off-season.. Tytus Howard, I am not so sure but I doubt it.
 
leebigeztx said:
It's not going to be hard. They know Howard isn't a guard. He's playing out of position. After the season, Howard is going back to rt and Fant can be depth. They're probably going to continue the Green experiment much like they did with Stingley. The high draft picks are going to get the benefit of the doubt. If anything, Fant probably took Heck spot as a swing tackle.
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Fant will have to be signed and, I'm guessing, to a multiyear contract for some moderately serious, mid-tier money. Tunsil, Howard and Mason are locked up with hefty contracts. Should we add a forth?
 
Number19 said:
Houston, we have a problem.

Fant was only signed for 2023 and will be an UFA. Howard, on the other hand, just signed a 3 year extension for $56M.

Fant will want to get paid on what could be his last contract. Next year will be his 9th year.
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Howard can be traded as demand high for Olinemen and his dead $ would be $13.5 million with ~ $5.5 savings that could go to Fant. I never thought Fant would play as he has. I think Howard will be Texan RT 2024 and Fant elsewhere.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'm just going to jump in here and say this about Fant.

Did anyone notice that it was FANT who tackled the LB on that second interception? Fant was HUSTLING.

The way he's been playing, it's going to be hard for Howard to re-take that position and Howard ain't cutting it at LG.

Overall, the line in whatever permutation of players except for Dieter playing RT has been playing lights out. Even with Howard at LG.
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I was screaming 77 77 77! That boy was trucking
 
badboy said:
I believe Josh Jones will be return at reasonable deal as he can play 4of5 spots.
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Just looked and Jones will also be an UFA. This year is the 4th on his rookie contract. Performed modestly at the beginning of the season at LT until Tunsil got back. But had an outstanding year in 2022 for Arizonia, at LT. He'll want a multiyear contract with a nice bump in salary.

Does everyone know Jones is a local boy, growing up in Richmond.
 
Number19 said:
Just looked and Jones will also be an UFA. This year is the 4th on his rookie contract. Performed modestly at the beginning of the season at LT until Tunsil got back. But had an outstanding year in 2022 for Arizonia, at LT. He'll want a multiyear contract with a nice bump in salary.

Does everyone know Jones is a local boy, growing up in Richmond.
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Yes and I've seen sources saying he will go elsewhere for big bucks but hopefully he will stay here on decent deal.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'm just going to jump in here and say this about Fant.

Did anyone notice that it was FANT who tackled the LB on that second interception? Fant was HUSTLING.

The way he's been playing, it's going to be hard for Howard to re-take that position and Howard ain't cutting it at LG.

Overall, the line in whatever permutation of players except for Dieter playing RT has been playing lights out. Even with Howard at LG.
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Yea big fella was getting it and prevented the pick 6. Also Howard was hustling down there too.

Agreed the right tackle position is Fants. Howard needs to hurry up and get better at LG.
 
I don’t think there’s any shot Fant is our starting RT next year.

He’s playing fine but not like at an elite level or anything and Howard is just not a good guard. Howard is 27 and Fant is 31 and there’s gonna be some sunk cost determinations going into this with Howard’s contract.
 
badboy said:
Just my thoughts: Tunsil is a pass blocking beast and I expect battle plan going forward is to allow CJ to air it. We have the targets (I want one more as several quality guys are in this next draft). Tytus is good at PB at right tackle and our foul up with Kenyon forces him out of position. Fant has shocked me playing much better than I expected. 667 snaps at RT 66% and his $2.7 m cap hit compares to Howards ~$7m. He will get new contract but where? I continue to see Juice Scruggs as our center and Patterson LG for future. Mason isn't going anywhere
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I still haven't written Kenyon Green off.
Local boy who wants to ball for us but unfortunately has been injury prone.
I still want to see him play healthy and with some time in this system before I kick him to the kerb.
That said, I would love to see a better than average G who can pass and run block well come in here - it would solve most, if not all the remaining issues on this line.
Of course, that will come at a premium, but, if you want to keep that shiny new QB upright and give him every chance to succeed, there is a price to pay.
A big part of Tom Brady's success was he always seemed to have a decent Oline and that could have come down to Dante Scarneccia, but NE was pretty savvy about the guys they drafted or brought in as well.
 
Texansphan said:
I still haven't written Kenyon Green off.
Local boy who wants to ball for us but unfortunately has been injury prone.
I still want to see him play healthy and with some time in this system before I kick him to the kerb.
That said, I would love to see a better than average G who can pass and run block well come in here - it would solve most, if not all the remaining issues on this line.
Of course, that will come at a premium, but, if you want to keep that shiny new QB upright and give him every chance to succeed, there is a price to pay.
A big part of Tom Brady's success was he always seemed to have a decent Oline and that could have come down to Dante Scarneccia, but NE was pretty savvy about the guys they drafted or brought in as well.
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And I'm still positive about LG Kendrick Green, who has year 4 remaining on his rookie contract.

We have a lot of potential at LG, all unfortunately injured. Makes it hard deciding what to do the next off season. And let's not forget Patterson and Broeker.

It would be taking a chance, and the coaches have a better grasp on things than we do, but I think we can go into next off season sitting pat. Just need to get our injured players healed up.
 
I do think the oline is in a spot where it can be left relatively untouched this offseason. Tackle depth is probably the only thing I really see as a need.

Spend the resources this offseason building up this defense and finding one more skill position playmaker on offense
 
Khelar said:
The most fundamental is if we would do that why would another team do it?
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They wouldn't. I can't think of one example where a team with a top 10 pick traded it for a vet LT with a massive contract. When O'Brien traded for Tunsil, he was still on his rookie deal.
 
badboy said:
Just my thoughts: Tunsil is a pass blocking beast and I expect battle plan going forward is to allow CJ to air it. We have the targets (I want one more as several quality guys are in this next draft). Tytus is good at PB at right tackle and our foul up with Kenyon forces him out of position. Fant has shocked me playing much better than I expected. 667 snaps at RT 66% and his $2.7 m cap hit compares to Howards ~$7m. He will get new contract but where? I continue to see Juice Scruggs as our center and Patterson LG for future. Mason isn't going anywhere
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I'm for trading Howard for a 3rd rd pick. Re-signing Fant and signing a swing OT on the cheap in FA.

I dont see Scruggs as anything until I see him on the field. Why is an injured Green a screwup and an injured Scruggs not a screwup?
 
Texansphan said:
I still haven't written Kenyon Green off.
Local boy who wants to ball for us but unfortunately has been injury prone.
I still want to see him play healthy and with some time in this system before I kick him to the kerb.
That said, I would love to see a better than average G who can pass and run block well come in here - it would solve most, if not all the remaining issues on this line.
Of course, that will come at a premium, but, if you want to keep that shiny new QB upright and give him every chance to succeed, there is a price to pay.
A big part of Tom Brady's success was he always seemed to have a decent Oline and that could have come down to Dante Scarneccia, but NE was pretty savvy about the guys they drafted or brought in as well.
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At his age and contract, I don't think the Texans have written off Green either. However, I am not sure you're going to get your wish about seeing him play healthy.

We do need a left guard who can both PB and RB, but I do not see that in this next draft nor in a premium free safety. Very few teams want to allow one of those type players to get away unless forced into it by salary cap or displeasure of that player.

I believe Michael Dieter could be in play 2023 at OC if he continues his play. Scruggs should be the guy but he and Patterson could resolve that and LG.
 
leebigeztx said:
Look at the 1st 3 oline players drafted in 2022. None of those guys are on Tunsil level. We witnessed Greenard abusing the Panthers LT. Neal from the Giants have been a disaster.
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That was actually I. Ekwonu who was I think drafted higher than Neal, but the Panthers are having issues with their top picks it would seem.
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikem_Ekwonu
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm for trading Howard for a 3rd rd pick. Re-signing Fant and signing a swing OT on the cheap in FA.

I dont see Scruggs as anything until I see him on the field. Why is an injured Green a screwup and an injured Scruggs not a screwup?
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Good point but I am not projecting Scruggs over Kenyon. Patterson is my projection over K Green. I have seen Green on NFL on field, not much but enough that I don't see him in our future. Will he be on roster game 1 next season? Probably. I still would line up Patterson and Scruggs. Scruggs may turn out to be an injury magnet as has Green but I'm more willing to take chance with him over Green as a player.
 
badboy said:
Good point but I am not projecting Scruggs over Kenyon. Patterson is my projection over K Green. I have seen Green on NFL on field, not much but enough that I don't see him in our future. Will he be on roster game 1 next season? Probably. I still would line up Patterson and Scruggs. Scruggs may turn out to be an injury magnet as has Green but I'm more willing to take chance with him over Green as a player.
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You can make these kinds of projections after seeing Green healthy for three and a half games?

Man you're in the wrong field if you can correctly make these projections.
 
Number19 said:
And I'm still positive about LG Kendrick Green, who has year 4 remaining on his rookie contract.

We have a lot of potential at LG, all unfortunately injured. Makes it hard deciding what to do the next off season. And let's not forget Patterson and Broeker.

It would be taking a chance, and the coaches have a better grasp on things than we do, but I think we can go into next off season sitting pat. Just need to get our injured players healed up.
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You are not alone as couple other posters seem optimistic about the oft-injured Aggie Olineman.
I dunno maybe it's the Texans winning ways lately which has everyone so positive about this guy ?
For me I'm just hopeful, but that's the best I can say about Green.
 
badboy said:
At his age and contract, I don't think the Texans have written off Green either. However, I am not sure you're going to get your wish about seeing him play healthy.

We do need a left guard who can both PB and RB, but I do not see that in this next draft nor in a premium free safety. Very few teams want to allow one of those type players to get away unless forced into it by salary cap or displeasure of that player.

I believe Michael Dieter could be in play 2023 at OC if he continues his play. Scruggs should be the guy but he and Patterson could resolve that and LG.
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I'm bringing back Deiter if the money is right.
 
IDEXAN said:
You are not alone as couple other posters seem optimistic about the oft-injured Aggie Olineman.
I dunno maybe it's the Texans winning ways lately which has everyone so positive about this guy ?
For me I'm just hopeful, but that's the best I can say about Green.
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Kendrick Green did not play for A&M. He played for Illinois. You are getting him confused with Kenyon Green.
 
badboy said:
Good point but I am not projecting Scruggs over Kenyon. Patterson is my projection over K Green. I have seen Green on NFL on field, not much but enough that I don't see him in our future. Will he be on roster game 1 next season? Probably. I still would line up Patterson and Scruggs. Scruggs may turn out to be an injury magnet as has Green but I'm more willing to take chance with him over Green as a player.
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I'd say the wild card going into next year's off season is Green2. Pittsburg played him out of position at Center. His natural position is LG and at Illinois he played in a ZB scheme. He only started 3 games for Houston before getting injured.
×××××××
Breaking news - Scruggs is at practice
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His third game against Pittsburg, his PB grade was 80.5. RB was better than Howard's has been, at 59.6.
 
Number19 said:
I'd say the wild card going into next year's off season is Green2. Pittsburg played him out of position at Center. His natural position is LG and at Illinois he played in a ZB scheme. He only started 3 games for Houston before getting injured.
×××××××
Breaking news - Scruggs is at practice
×××××××
His third game against Pittsburg, his PB grade was 80.5. RB was better than Howard's has been, at 59.6.
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I just heard on the radio that Laramie Tunsil may not play Sunday. Supposedly, Heck listed at RT.
 
steelbtexan said:
I don't have an opinion on Kenyon at this point because I haven't seen him play enough to make an accurate eval.
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I too, have not seen him play enough .... but, I have always been full of .... opinions ! I watched him in about four games year before last .... always looking for linemen. Heavy, bad weight, not explosive, 21 reps, ummm .... non-exuberant .... maybe all due to an ankle - wouldn't be my guess !
 
justmy2cents said:
I too, have not seen him play enough .... but, I have always been full of .... opinions ! I watched him in about four games year before last .... always looking for linemen. Heavy, bad weight, not explosive, 21 reps, ummm .... non-exuberant .... maybe all due to an ankle - wouldn't be my guess !
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Do you remember watching him early last year before he got hurt?
 
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