TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Do you know what the questions are on the S2 test? It has that translates to on the field performance?
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CJ Stroud Success Level (Mark it down)
- Thread starter BattleRedBlud
- Start date
Do you know what the questions are on the S2 test? It has that translates to on the field performance?
It's about the ability to think on your feet in stressful situations. Nothing more or less and yes that takes a high level of intelligence.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
“Using a regression model, S2 found that the quarterback’s score accounted for 28.7% of their career passer rating, meaning that about a quarter of passer rating can be predicted by or explained by an S2 score.”
Think about that for a while.
25% of the time it can “work” at “predicting” human behavior. Which I believe is never predictable given all the variables.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Stingley wasn’t saved by Snoop Dog. The young man and his family was about to be homeless. But hey he has red flag’s because of the company he keeps and a freaking test that more than half the darn NFL isn’t employing.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Just like you know “leading your team to a victory” when it comes down to a FG is up to the kicker when the offense gets into FG range. Big difference between say throwing an INT on the final drive and getting to FG range but the kicker misses.
Look at Dan Marino and is laughably awful Wonderlic score. He did pretty ok in the NFL. Not apples to apples regarding the S2. but the Wonderlic score was the "gold standard" back then.
I find it hilarious that the poster known for "stats are for losers" is now the biggest advocate of this S2 test. He's posting like a data scientist and about believing in the data, sample sizes and arbitrary data.
What's next? He will post a link about a QB taking up 15% of the salary cap?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Very funny indeed bro.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I didn't particularly like the Stingley pick because of his injury history, but then again, I don't pay a lot of attention to the defensive side of the ball. I really liked the Green pick, did not and do not consider it too high and consider him a high character person. Haven't heard anything on his injury situation, but am expecting significant improvement if healthy this season.
Stroud plays the most important position on the field. And by the way, I didn't like Carr's approach to football and in retrospect, would consider his (football) character poorly. We'll see about Stroud.
Outlier
A 50 plus yd FG by a college kicker is 50/50 at best. Fact Stroud didn't play well in the 4th qtr and that allowed Georgia to comeback and win the game. That game shouldn't have ever come down to a last second 50 plus yd FG is my point.
How many QB's that have scored below 50 on the S-2 have been successful QB's?
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Stroud played well in the 4th. However, without Harrison on the field, Georgia locked down his other Receivers.
What caused Harrison to get concussed?
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
Looking at your posts, you are a Will Levis guy. LOL. Explains a lot.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Stroud is a team player. Dependent on teammates as much as they depend on him. Don’t know why? People won’t give DeMeco the benefit of a doubt on his QB of choice. Look at Trey Lance, what 49ers gave up to get him with return he netted. Great young man too, more physically gifted but nowhere near as polished and poised as Stroud. Fans will be fans, until proven otherwise 
Not at all
I didn't want them to pick a QB in this draft. Although if they did I had them rated 1. Young 2. Hooker 3. Levis 4. Richardson 5. Stroud. I really dont like any of them as a franchise QB for different reasons.
1. Young- CnD told us about what his injury future will look like in 5 yrs
2. Hooker- Age
3. Levis- I think he got the crap beat out of him last yr so bad that he's gunshy.
4. Richardson- Best athlete in the draft, very raw, got drafted by a HC that's perfect for him in Stiechen. Has a better than avg chance for success.
Stroud- Dumbest of the group by far, Dont like the QB on the field or the people he associates with off of the field.
I do think Levis will end up being the best of the group. But I think Richardson has the best chance to be a superstar under Stiechen. A much better LJ.
Is thinking Stroud will be a top 10-15 type QB not giving Ryans the benefit of the doubt?Stroud is a team player. Dependent on teammates as much as they depend on him. Don’t know why? People won’t give DeMeco the benefit of a doubt on his QB of choice. Look at Trey Lance, what 49ers gave up to get him with return he netted. Great young man too, more physically gifted but nowhere near as polished and poised as Stroud. Fans will be fans, until proven otherwise
People?
Boris
All Pro
Dan also had the reputation of a partyer while at Pitt. Knoll and the Steelers passed on him out of concern.
But did he hang with Snoop & Martha Stewart?
Middling QB
Dont like the QB or the people he hangs with.
Dont like the QB or the people he hangs with.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So honest question, because I think it would make for a good discussion. Looking at the current NFL starting quarterbacks, who is middling by your definition? I don't think it is exclusively a stats things, but maybe more about results?
To me, guys like Goff, Cousins and Dak are in your middling category.
Cousins/Dak/Danny Dimes/Carr/Derrick/Murray/Goff etc...
Is there a list somewhere? My understanding is, that the S2 scores only get revealed if the athlete agrees to it - and this leak this year was kind of an outlier. So I would be suprised if QBs with a low S2 score would allow that to be public. It would be really interesting to see a full list…
Overall with these tests - they are usually pretty good. The 25% stated earlier doesn‘t mean, that the test is right for 25% of the athletes. It means, that if we put a lot of numbers together, that should have an effect on QBs performance (I have no idea how their model looks exactly and which numbers can be good predictors here - or how exactly they define QBs performance as a number). The linear model then tries to find a formular of all these predictor numbers to get as close as possible to the QB performance KPI. So the 25% basically mean that there is a pretty high correlation. But I haven‘t read how good the model performs overall (so how well it can actually predict QB performance on average) or how many and how good the other predictor variables are. Few variables mean higher impact per variable. Bad predictors mean, that the best predictors get a higher number. So the test doesn‘t include anything, thats not an number.
And overall, some people are bad at certain kind of tests. Maybe some are bad at controlling an XBOX controller, maybe some are bad at looking at small screen, maybe some are bad at following things without „meaning“, like balls. So while I am concerned about his bad score, it shouldn‘t define how you see the prospect overall.
It's just another data point of the many that have to be looked at. Some are blowing it's importance way out of the water.
Again, do we know the S2 of other QBs? Do we know the S2 of Matthew Stafford, Lamar Jackson, or any of the other QBs outside of the ones with super high scores that were reported? Do we know of other people, that have scored poorly on the test? I would really love to look at a list like that, but as long as we only have the results of a draft class, that hasn‘t played a NFL game yet and of some that scored very high on the test, then we can‘t really say, if QBs with a low S2 score are currently succeeding in the NFL (or even were succeeding sometime in history).
heymak
"I know nothing!". (Veteran)
Another tidbit I read about the S2 is the Young has taken the test every year since 10th grade. Would that be considered grooming a player for the test?
"I do have a feeling that a quarterback from Alabama that we have tested every year since he was in 10th grade may end up sharing his results publicly because he actually owns those results and the NFL does not,” Ally said."
www.acmepackingcompany.com
"I do have a feeling that a quarterback from Alabama that we have tested every year since he was in 10th grade may end up sharing his results publicly because he actually owns those results and the NFL does not,” Ally said."
The S-2 Cognition Test and You
The (not actually) new test is sweeping the pre-draft world, but just how confident can we be in what it purports to tell us.
www.acmepackingcompany.com
Show me the score of everyone that's taken it.
Texansballer74
The Marine
See the post above
sandman
Brexit Advisor
While we do not have access to the data in terms of who has actually been tested, according to the S2 creators the sample size is over 100 QB's in the last 5-7 years, mainly through the draft process as well as I believe about 25 current/recent starting QB's in the NFL. In other words, they took the test as an NFL starting/recently starting QB, not through the draft process.
The data does not give much insight into the odds of a higher score meaning certain success. The known superstar NFL QBs all did well on the test, but that is backwards testing. Their overall results do not have a strong determination that draft prospects with high scores will do well in the NFL. There have been high scores that were busts.
What the test does have a distinct pattern of is that no one who has scored LOW on the test has been successful so far in the NFL.
As with all tests, it should be a single data point among many used to assess a prospects chances of being successful. Stroud's test was significantly low, and should have been part of the consideration of where he was drafted. I feel confident that the Texans did a thorough vetting of all the things they thought were important and still selected him, because his S2 score didn't outweigh the other areas they value. I am cautiously optimistic that he will be different than the trend.
Because it is just that - a trend. It isn't an immutable law as some would have us believe because they don't like the player.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Who were those quarterbacks that tested low and wasn’t successful in the NFL? That’s the problem right there, they made that claim . But aren’t put any names to it. And how many were there?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I would imagine they've shown that data to the people who pay for their services. If they made the claim, and it wasn't true, I am sure that someone from the NFL would have put a stop to their statements.
They aren't PFF and selling their product to fans. They have a proprietary assessment technology that they market to the NFL and its members. There is a reason scores were leaked from this past draft cycle as opposed to being published.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The S2 measures how quickly and how well one can process information. Someone with a score of 98% score on the S2 can process information much quicker and better than someone who only scores 18%. Some one who scores a18% on the S2 may have a tendency to hold the ball too long, panic under pressure, and their computer comes with a slow dial up and processor. Unfortunately, their low score may not allow them to become a Waffle House Cook on weekend mornings.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
Texian
Hall of Fame
He don’t take no tests, competition makes him feel disrespected. How disrespected will he feel if doesn’t get a $300 million GTD contract in two and a half years?
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Tests come and go. It used to be the Wonderlic that was such a great test. The S2 will be replaced at some point too.
Jim Kelly, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino and others have shown a test does not translate to success.
How fast you press buttons on an Xbox controller does not equate success. This is an example of one of the test questions:
“Sources told Click2Houston’s Aaron Wilson that Anthony Richardson performed well on the test. Tests like this can be real mind-bender, even when performed at a high level. They’re meant to be difficult, and Richardson himself claimed as much.
“They want to see how fast you can recall things and notice certain things,” Richardson said. “On one of the [questions], you had to look at six balls that they highlighted, and they move all over the screen. You had to pick out the balls and highlight them. I’m like, ‘How can I focus on six balls at once?'””
Texian
Hall of Fame
He don’t take no stinking tests!
beerlover
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Cognition tests.........including the S2 can definitely be prepped for. They all follow repeated patterns. Prep exercises are universally available. I have taken several cognition tests in the past.............and I have administered some to my surgical residents. Repetitive exposure to these tests tend to allow the test taker to improve his outcomes.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Exactly. I don't know Stroud. I don't know if he likes to play video games or if he plays XBox games, but taking tests like this can give you erratic results. If you're tired or if you're distracted or have to pee or you're hungry etc, your scores can plummet.
IF he had a low score, which we don't know for sure that he did, it could have been for a variety of reasons, including that he flat out didn't do well. When he was directly asked about it, he seemed to confirm that he'd had a low score.
But this seems at odds with what's on tape for the most part. His strengths are supposed to be that he's good at reading defenses and making quick, correct decisions and then placing the ball accurately on target. Some people say he doesn't do well when he has to go past his first or second read, while other people say he's really good at going through all his progressions. Some people say he's got a weakness when he looks away from the defense and then looks back around and has to re-orient himself, others disagree. Some people say he breaks down and makes poor decisions when flustered and confused.
For me, I'm hoping for the best on this and for him.
But.
On this board.
This whole Low S2/Stroud is an idiot thing is never going to go away.
And I'm already sick of it.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I am not speaking to the validity of the S2 Cognition test. But when taking ANY important test, you are always told to come in rested, fed and relieved of bodily functions. The S2 is only a 35-40 minute test. Using these as excuses typically points to not taking the test seriously [There can always be the exception]. My medical board certification tests take hours. Excuses aren't accepted.........the results speak for themselves............so do their consequences.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Would you put Herbert there? With some of the younger guys it is too soon to tell, but right now I would say he is middling. Three years, great stats, but underperforming in the wins column and only one playoff game for a team that has been billed better than how they have played.