All I really care about is the results. I really dont care what kind of methodology or really how they came to the results.
Like I said I get what you're saying, our brains just work differently and there's nothing wrong with that.
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CJ Stroud Success Level (Mark it down)
- Thread starter BattleRedBlud
- Start date
All I really care about is the results. I really dont care what kind of methodology or really how they came to the results.
Like I said I get what you're saying, our brains just work differently and there's nothing wrong with that.
badboy
Hall of Fame
How do you know if doc knows? Serious inquiry on my part.
I think it changes at least once every day, because Tuesday it was
Texansballer74
The Marine
It was all of their choice. When are we going to actually listen to the people making the decisions. Both of them said it was a collective decision. And the McNair’s said they leave it up to the football guys to make those decisions. Last season and the season before were different animals because of what was going on during those times.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
Exactly
Texansballer74
The Marine
I don’t think Meco or Caserio are lying.
And Caserio has held Cal at bay throughout all of that drama. That’s why I don’t believe they’re lying to
Texansballer74
The Marine
They’re not lying.
You don't think they aren't or you know they aren't?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He doesn't, just like nobody else knew. He'll CJ nor his agent knew. DeMeco said the only people who knew were Carsterio and himself. Everyone else was guessing.
Texansballer74
The Marine
According to some both of them are lying.
Let her who is without sin cast the first stone.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
We don’t know they are liars.
You think they are.
Instead we are to believe the ramblings of some internet posters who can write creatively with no shred of evidence or proof? Just “connecting the dots.”?
Sounds idiotic to me.
Working in the data field..... 50 examples is typically the threshold for more "accurate" data.
I think the S2 is largely irrelevant at this time. Yes NFL teams use it, but if you are picking at the top of the first round and are selecting guys who were actually Heisman level production/talented players, then theres been about 6 NFL QB's in the last 5 years who I would classify as being a part of the data field.
Do the math... its going to be a while until the data is significant to suggest it has any indication on what a player with real talent can do.
Problem is, if CJ works out which I suspect he will after watching his tape. Then we will suggest the S2 is largely irrelevant for elite prospects? You need more sample sizes. Making career assumptions with low data samples is just showing me you have a narrative you want to push or don't understand data. Nothing personal there, but the only people pushing the S2 are casual fans and analyst who were projecting draft boards.
What do we know?
Carolina moved up for him per their insiders originally.
Houston graded him as a 1a/1b with Bryce Young per their scouting department as mentioned by Brooks Kubena.
Houston took him as the 2nd overall.
The Titans were willing to mortgage their future despite not having capital like the Texans for him at 3.
The Colts were reportedly going to take him at 4 if he was there per their insiders.
The Raiders and Falcons were reportedly very interested in him as well among other teams.
I have my doubts NFL teams at this point even put much credence in to this test. Sure seemed like a lot of them could care less on draft night.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I would bet the farm that Mulugheta was the one pushing the agenda, not the players. When your agent, an obvious racist, is telling you how badly you're being mistreated by an organization and how racist that organization is, it's easy to see how, and why, the players did what they did.
No QB should be involved in hiring a GM. What does a QB know about scouting, drafting, and running an organization? I could see a superstar QB having a say in hiring a HC. That affects the superstar QB directly. What superstar QB would want to play in a Jeff Fisher or Marty Schottenheimer offense?
Has any of this actually been confirmed or is it all largely conspiracy? Not questioning your validity... I just never knew if the Deshaun stuff was actually confirmed as the reason he wanted to leave the organization.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Watson demanded a trade right after Caserio was hired. That crap had nothing to do with his agent or his agent being racist. WTF did that crap come from. Jokers be making up stuff.
Remember when Cal announced the committee that was going to help him hire a GM & HC?
Remember when he said Easterby doesn't make important football decisions?
Remember when Caserio said Culley was the best guy for the job?
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
1. Cal did hire a committee to help him hire a GM. He just didn’t use their recommendations.
2. Was Easterby just giving advice on what the decision should be and not the one responsible? For example he worked with OB on the Watson extension but it was OB who was the GM making the decision.
3. Culley was the best guy for a job that had no future. Obviously they had had a placeholder coach until a better opportunity presented itself.
#3 isn’t talked about enough. Remember when Shannahan was available after the Super Bowl and we said Texans should fire OB and go after Shanny? Bob McNair didn’t.
Cal did that with Lovie and Demeco.
Hopefully his Georgia game becomes the kids new baseline... Then we can hope to beat Burrow and Mahomes in the AFC playoffs if were lucky.
AFC is stacked LOL.
This team is going to go as far as the defense led by Demeco takes it.
You don't remember what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a straight up lie that involved Jimmy Johnson, Herm Edwards, & Andre Johnson among others.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Is that what the crystal ball says?
Texansballer74
The Marine
austins23
Hall of Fame
If that crystal ball says CJ will be in the top 5 QBs in the AFC within the next 3 years, then I’d say I like it!!
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I get that we took a guy with a low score…reportedly…
But I don’t get why everyone wants to dismiss the results.
It’s just another piece of the puzzle just like interviews and other non game day related drills and such…
IF he scored low on it, it does align with what a majority of scouts have said about him which is that his weak spots are making plays under pressure and he has issues quickly processing past his initial read.
IF these things are truly issues, as a Texans fan you’ve got to hope that he can improve AND the personnel and offensive scheme highlight his positives.
IF he does have a processing/dealing with pressure issue and if neither of the things I laid out happen he will be a huge bust. I don’t see any way around that. But I’m a huge fan of the offense I think we’ll be running so I think he’ll be pretty good.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Hopefully he is better than Aikman, but If he even comes close to what Aikman accomplished as a player he’d be one of the best athletes this city has had.
Good post. Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 48 out of 50 on the Wonderlic and made some of the dumbest INTs and turnovers at the most crucial moments. Eli Manning's Wonderlic (39) was higher than Peyton's (28). Blaine Gabbert scored a 42 and scored better than Mahomes (24), Marino (16), Favre (22), and even Brady (33).
My point? A low S-2 or Wonderlic score is a concern. However, it's only one tool in the evaluation toolbox. It's not supposed to be the primary tool in your evaluation. I also find it funny that the S-2 has been around for years and this is the first I've heard about scores being leaked. Seems like either a team that wanted Stroud to drop in the draft or an agent of one of the QBs in this draft leaked the score. So, there was a draft agenda at work.
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I'm more interested in the game related stuff. If you can show me on tape where Stroud consistently has issues with pressure and processing, we can have a real discussion. But if you're going to question Stroud because of a series of tests you know nothing about, it's difficult to take your post seriously.
And it's not just you. It's everyone on this forum. In the media. And I'd guess, the overwhelming majority of NFL front offices. I'm not saying we are experts on football. But compared to cognitive testing, we have PhD's in football.
I didn't care about the low S2 score. What threw a red flag for me was his response, "I'm not good with tests, I'm here to play football."
I mean 3.0 GPA & this is your answer?
I mean 3.0 GPA & this is your answer?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'm excited about Stroud.
I do hope that people remember him as a case study of sorts for the S2 test.
Regardless of how anyone feels about it one way or the other, it should change some narratives about it.
Do you want him to take a test you don't use or play football?
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
“Relative to the tests i’ve taken on the football field, the S2 test is irrelevant.”
- What CJ Stroud should have said.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
The S2 test is given on a laptop or Xbox controller.
S2 Cognition attempts to quantify split-second reaction times to visual stimuli on a computer screen.
This is from their FAQ.
We will have to wait and see how that translates into an accurate gauge of on the field play.
To me how fast you press a button in response to what you see on computer isn’t going to tell you much.
Except to draft Kyler Murray.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Yes!
Reading his story elsewhere on this site, he passed a lot of "tests" in his life that are much more revealing than S2 could ever be..
Here's rooting for the guy to be ultra successful..
It’s my understanding at least half the teams don’t subscribe to S2. I thought long & hard on it, prayed on it & decided I’m not going to be used by another corporate shill with his hand out.
I don‘t watch college football - and highlight videos don‘t show the real story. So I tried and look at each scouting report I could find on youtube, by the likes of of Simms, Palmer, The Ringer etc. I especially tried to find out the bad things they had to say about him. There were very few of those.
One of them was, that he doesn‘t set his feet when he gets pressure in his face which leads to less accuracy. Fair - but there were also examples of him doing that and of him handling the pressure just fine. So this should be coachable as long as this is not a fear thing that gets worse when NFL defenders hit him.
The other was him deciding where to got to before seeing how the defense reacts. To me this would be biggest “red flag“ about him - this might also have something to do with his low S2 score. But on the other hand, in the Georgia game he did just that perfectly, looking the defense of, not throwing into covered receivers, rolling out extending the play etc. So this may also be coachable.
And the big thing was his mobility or lack there of. He actually seems to be pretty good at maneuvering in the pocket. What he lacks is the desire to run. Now I do want him to run when there is no throw and he has a lot of green in front of him. And again, he did do that in the Georgia game. But I am perfectly fine with a QB that is 100% pass first and also uses his mobility mainly to find another throw.
But other than that, there was a lot of praise and gushing. His accuracy is great, his timing is great, his manipulation of safeties is great, his decision making is great, his strength is great. To me all these scouting reports make him seem like a surefire top pick along the lines of a Joe Burrow. So I am really happy with the pick!
One of them was, that he doesn‘t set his feet when he gets pressure in his face which leads to less accuracy. Fair - but there were also examples of him doing that and of him handling the pressure just fine. So this should be coachable as long as this is not a fear thing that gets worse when NFL defenders hit him.
The other was him deciding where to got to before seeing how the defense reacts. To me this would be biggest “red flag“ about him - this might also have something to do with his low S2 score. But on the other hand, in the Georgia game he did just that perfectly, looking the defense of, not throwing into covered receivers, rolling out extending the play etc. So this may also be coachable.
And the big thing was his mobility or lack there of. He actually seems to be pretty good at maneuvering in the pocket. What he lacks is the desire to run. Now I do want him to run when there is no throw and he has a lot of green in front of him. And again, he did do that in the Georgia game. But I am perfectly fine with a QB that is 100% pass first and also uses his mobility mainly to find another throw.
But other than that, there was a lot of praise and gushing. His accuracy is great, his timing is great, his manipulation of safeties is great, his decision making is great, his strength is great. To me all these scouting reports make him seem like a surefire top pick along the lines of a Joe Burrow. So I am really happy with the pick!
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
I will take a pass-first QB all day over a running QB playing hero ball. Running QBs can look good early but once defenses figure them out it is much harder to learn how to beat defenses from the pocket. See Young, Vince.
Do you think he’s a rhythm QB?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
I can obvious work, if they have a solid passing ability. The only people to ever figure out Vick were the cops.
They will have to run their WCO like Kubes did with Schaub. No audibles.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I hear ya, and I agree on ALWAYS wanting a pass first qb. But I think he can run. Highlights don't really show it which is actually a good thing. It's truly a last option for him. He ran a 4.5. If we can threaten a defense horizontally with hard play fakes and a boot game, it could be devastating.
Where?