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Fire Lovie Smith!

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thunderkyss said:
...Just like Bridgewater was "professionally" rated as a top 5 player in his draft. 32 teams didn't think like the "professionals"...
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You don't, and can't, know this, except in hindsight. By professional, I mean those who scout and analyze prospects for a living and have the advantage of years of doing so for comparison. Teams often hire or rely on these individual's analysis. As an early example, Joel Buchbaum was offered jobs, which he declined.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm calling foul if Bryce Young is rated "professionally" as a top 5 player in this draft.

Just like Bridgewater was "professionally" rated as a top 5 player in his draft. 32 teams didn't think like the "professionals"

They're "professional" journalists, scouting-journalists maybe...
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Where do you have Young amateurishly ranked?
 
steelbtexan said:
You move up the one spot and it's worth it because these 2 guys are better than any QB in this class.

I don't think the Bears had to give up that much when they traded up 1 spot with the 49ers to draft Trubiski.
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That's providing the two teams with the top picks are willing to trade.

And also providing the two QBs that you think are better than any QB in this draft.

If that's the case, those two said teams will most likely take the QBs.

A lot of IFs.

There's ZERO guarantee that you will get the QB that you covet.
 
Lucky said:
Bears - 2017 1.2

Niners 2017 1.3 + 3.67 + 4.11 + 2018 3rd

The Niners traded 3.67 to the Saints and that pick became Alvin Kamara. The Niners 3rd round pick from the Bears in 2018 became Fred Warner.

This is a cautionary tale. Don't burn draft picks trading up, because the guys you trade may be better than the guy you traded for.
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I'm fine if I think there's a top tier QB available. The risk reward is worth the risk, I would rather do a Bears /49ers trade in 2024 than pick a QB in 2023. I'm willing to pay for the QB I think gives them the best chance to win a championship. Rather than settle for the 2023 QB's. Posters that want Caserio to pick a midget (although he's a great college QB.) to be the future of the franchise. You can be on board if you believe Young's a unicorn, but dont be surprised when things dont turn out the way some posters are hoping they do. i've already seen this after 2 decades of watching the Texans, you would think posters would learn but I guess not. SMDH If Young's the pick, there will be no championships in the next 5-7 yrs and the Derrick trade will have been for nothing. Typical Texans, SMDH
 
Texansballer74 said:
But then we’ll be crying he doesn’t have weapons. Is that what you want?
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There should be weapons, if they add a WR likke Johnston/JSN/Adison or I'm sure a WR from the 2024 class even after the trade. This yr is the best TE class that I've seen in a long time.

Say do this,

1-15 Johnston
2-32 Washington
5-170 Aric Gilbert.
6-203 Tank Dell

Put these weapons together with a center like Stomberg/Schmitt/Patterson/Forsythe/Avila in the 3rd and then the new QB will have a great chance to succeed. There's some real quailty weapons there.
 
Number19 said:
You don't, and can't, know this, except in hindsight. By professional, I mean those who scout and analyze prospects for a living and have the advantage of years of doing so for comparison. Teams often hire or rely on these individual's analysis. As an early example, Joel Buchbaum was offered jobs, which he declined.
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Brugler is the closest to Buschbaum in today's draftnik world. (RIP Joel)

You dont know, but if Caserio's smart he will use hindsight to gain knowledge. Will he be allowed too? (Doubtful.)
 
Lucky said:
Bears - 2017 1.2

Niners 2017 1.3 + 3.67 + 4.11 + 2018 3rd

The Niners traded 3.67 to the Saints and that pick became Alvin Kamara. The Niners 3rd round pick from the Bears in 2018 became Fred Warner.

This is a cautionary tale. Don't burn draft picks trading up, because the guys you trade may be better than the guy you traded for.
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I wonder if Kansas City feels they burned draft trading up for Patrick mahommes?
 
badboy said:
I wonder if Kansas City feels they burned draft trading up for Patrick mahommes?
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Count how many more Trubiskys there are than Mahomes. Now tell me what a great idea it is to trade up.Niners

Also, look at the Bears Niners trade. The Bears could have called the Niners bluff. Had the Niners took or traded the pick that would have been Trubisky, Mahomes would have been the consolation prize.

I'm not saying never trade up. I'm saying don't make it a habit.
 
Lucky said:
Count how many more Trubiskys there are than Mahomes. Now tell me what a great idea it is to trade up.Niners

Also, look at the Bears Niners trade. The Bears could have called the Niners bluff. Had the Niners took or traded the pick that would have been Trubisky, Mahomes would have been the consolation prize.

I'm not saying never trade up. I'm saying don't make it a habit.
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Different philosophies, I believe if Caserio really likes a guy and has the trade capital, he should always trade up to get the guy he wants. The Chiefs traded up because Reid's guy was Mahomes and that worked out pretty well.

If you're going to point out Failures you should point out successes as well.
 
steelbtexan said:
Once again Caserio doesn't hire the HC's.

The Texans have the 7th most cap space in the NFL, with the ability to create more if need be and really don't need to create more at this time since no top tier FA's are going to sign with them anyways.
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Steel, It's like I said earlier, A merry-go-round with some posters. :brickwall:

:coffee:
 
steelbtexan said:
If you're going to point out Failures you should point out successes as well.
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Let's just focus on Nick Caserio's trade ups. He's not Brett Veach.

Trades 2021 4.109 + 5.158 + 2022 4.108 for 2021 3.89 (Nico Collins)

Collins has been so-so, with 70 catches for 927 yards and 3 TDs in 2 seasons. But Nick could have stayed at 4.109 and drafted Amon-Ra St. Brown. Brown has 172 receptions (most in his draft class) with 1810 yards and 11 TDs. With the 2022 4th rounder, Caserio could have drafted Tariq Woolen out of UTSA. Whom I know you liked. Woolen leads the NFL in interceptions as a rookie.

Trades 2021 picks 6.203 + 6.212 + 6.233 in 2 separate deals for 5.170 (Garrett Wallow)

This is your classic example of quality (Wallow) vs quantity (3 lower picks). But what could the Texans have possibly gotten with those picks? Any quality?

6.203 could have been Trey Smith - OG. Smith has started at OG every game for KC since he's been in the league.
6.212 could have been Khalil Herbert - RB. Herbert is a top backup RB for the Bears who has rushed for 1076 yards in 2 years.
6.233 could have been Ben Skowronek - WR. Skowronek is a big possession WR for the Rams that has 49 catches for 506 yards in 2 seasons along with 9 special teams tackles.

Has Wallow been OK? Sure, he has played special teams and gotten 5 starts in 2 seasons. But is his "quality" such that you trade 3 picks that could have been as good or better? No.

Caserio traded down once (wow!) and traded up 3 times in the 2022 draft. While it's too early to evaulate those moves in terms of quality (Metchie hasn't even played), it doesn't look great on early returns. And I'm not even getting into the draft pick trades for players that either failed in Houston or never played.

So maybe there are times when some GMs can execute a trade up that benefits their teams. Nick Caserio has yet to prove he is one of those GMs. Stop trading away draft picks. Or find a GM that won't trade them.
 
Lucky said:
Let's just focus on Nick Caserio's trade ups. He's not Brett Veach.

Trades 2021 4.109 + 5.158 + 2022 4.108 for 2021 3.89 (Nico Collins)

Collins has been so-so, with 70 catches for 927 yards and 3 TDs in 2 seasons. But Nick could have stayed at 4.109 and drafted Amon-Ra St. Brown. Brown has 172 receptions (most in his draft class) with 1810 yards and 11 TDs. With the 2022 4th rounder, Caserio could have drafted Tariq Woolen out of UTSA. Whom I know you liked. Woolen leads the NFL in interceptions as a rookie.

Trades 2021 picks 6.203 + 6.212 + 6.233 in 2 separate deals for 5.170 (Garrett Wallow)

This is your classic example of quality (Wallow) vs quantity (3 lower picks). But what could the Texans have possibly gotten with those picks? Any quality?

6.203 could have been Trey Smith - OG. Smith has started at OG every game for KC since he's been in the league.
6.212 could have been Khalil Herbert - RB. Herbert is a top backup RB for the Bears who has rushed for 1076 yards in 2 years.
6.233 could have been Ben Skowronek - WR. Skowronek is a big possession WR for the Rams that has 49 catches for 506 yards in 2 seasons along with 9 special teams tackles.

Has Wallow been OK? Sure, he has played special teams and gotten 5 starts in 2 seasons. But is his "quality" such that you trade 3 picks that could have been as good or better? No.

Caserio traded down once (wow!) and traded up 3 times in the 2022 draft. While it's too early to evaulate those moves in terms of quality (Metchie hasn't even played), it doesn't look great on early returns. And I'm not even getting into the draft pick trades for players that either failed in Houston or never played.

So maybe there are times when some GMs can execute a trade up that benefits their teams. Nick Caserio has yet to prove he is one of those GMs. Stop trading away draft picks. Or find a GM that won't trade them.
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Another fine example of coaching matters
 
Lucky said:
Let's just focus on Nick Caserio's trade ups. He's not Brett Veach.

Trades 2021 4.109 + 5.158 + 2022 4.108 for 2021 3.89 (Nico Collins)

Collins has been so-so, with 70 catches for 927 yards and 3 TDs in 2 seasons. But Nick could have stayed at 4.109 and drafted Amon-Ra St. Brown. Brown has 172 receptions (most in his draft class) with 1810 yards and 11 TDs. With the 2022 4th rounder, Caserio could have drafted Tariq Woolen out of UTSA. Whom I know you liked. Woolen leads the NFL in interceptions as a rookie.

Trades 2021 picks 6.203 + 6.212 + 6.233 in 2 separate deals for 5.170 (Garrett Wallow)

This is your classic example of quality (Wallow) vs quantity (3 lower picks). But what could the Texans have possibly gotten with those picks? Any quality?

6.203 could have been Trey Smith - OG. Smith has started at OG every game for KC since he's been in the league.
6.212 could have been Khalil Herbert - RB. Herbert is a top backup RB for the Bears who has rushed for 1076 yards in 2 years.
6.233 could have been Ben Skowronek - WR. Skowronek is a big possession WR for the Rams that has 49 catches for 506 yards in 2 seasons along with 9 special teams tackles.

Has Wallow been OK? Sure, he has played special teams and gotten 5 starts in 2 seasons. But is his "quality" such that you trade 3 picks that could have been as good or better? No.

Caserio traded down once (wow!) and traded up 3 times in the 2022 draft. While it's too early to evaulate those moves in terms of quality (Metchie hasn't even played), it doesn't look great on early returns. And I'm not even getting into the draft pick trades for players that either failed in Houston or never played.

So maybe there are times when some GMs can execute a trade up that benefits their teams. Nick Caserio has yet to prove he is one of those GMs. Stop trading away draft picks. Or find a GM that won't trade them.
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TLTR.

Seems like a bunch of armchair GM 'ing.

I can do this too and like I said I would have gone in a different direction.

1. Neal
1. Davis
2. Sam Williams
3. Pickens
3. Harris
4. Pierce
5. Woolen
6. Pacheco
7. BPA.

See how easy it is to 2nd guess.
 
Lucky said:
I'm not 2nd guessing the players drafted. I'm giving evidence that the "quality over quantity" argument is fallacious.
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That's your opinion.

Keep on counting those pennies and rd 6-7 picks.

Those are the keys to championships.

See my 2nd guessing draft? Would've been great, Caserio is such a dumbazz for trading a 5th rd pick for Anthony Miller and if he wasn't such an idiot, he would've traded Tunsil for a 2nd rd pick to save money like some including you wanted to have happen.
 
Lucky said:
I'm not 2nd guessing the players drafted. I'm giving evidence that the "quality over quantity" argument is fallacious.
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steelbtexan said:
That's your opinion.

Keep on counting those pennies and rd 6-7 picks.

Those are the keys to championships.

See my 2nd guessing draft? Would've been great, Caserio is such a dumbazz for trading a 5th rd pick for Anthony Miller and if he wasn't such an idiot, he would've traded Tunsil for a 2nd rd pick to save money like some including you wanted to have happen.
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I am of the belief that just because one player looks good on one team that doesn’t mean they will look that good on another team.

It is all about fit. The players around them, the coaching, and some other stuff.

I am sure y’all agree.
 
steelbtexan said:
Different philosophies, I believe if Caserio really likes a guy and has the trade capital, he should always trade up to get the guy he wants.
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Nobody asked me, but I think he should trade up when he needs to to get the guys he want, trade down to get the guys he want, & trade players before the NFL realizes his best years are behind him.
 
Listening to "The general" John McClain recently and he seems to think that Lovie is gone after the conclusion of this season.
I dunno does McClain have feel for what's going on with the Texans these days or is he instead clueless ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Listening to "The general" John McClain recently and he seems to think that Lovie is gone after the conclusion of this season.
I dunno does McClain have feel for what's going on with the Texans these days or is he instead clueless ?
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I think the forum collective has more insight to the Texans than McClain these days. I like John, but he's good for war stories, not hot takes.
 
Lucky said:
I'm sure Gannon would be excited to hitch his career to an organization that has fired 3 HCs in 3 years, along with a GM that is on the hotseat.

I hope they still have Josh McCown's cell number.
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Are there any available high school coaches in the Houston area?
 
Guys vying for 1 of the exclusive 32 NFL HC jobs don’t care nearly as much as fans do about the revolving door owners can have with their previous HC’s. They understand you’re hired to be fired at some point.

The gig is more appealing than it was a year ago and probably more appealing now than it has probably ever been with all the future draft capital & cap space coming. Likely a new shiny qb to hitch their wagon to.

Gannon had tons of coaching experience but only 1 year as a coordinator at the time of his interview last year. A year later he’s got more experience as a coordinator and is running 1 of the league’s best defenses.

Aside from that, how many HC gigs do we think will come open next year? Arizona for sure, probably Denver…possibly Dallas and Washington depending on what happens with them in the playoffs. Our gig compares favorably with all those imo.
 
Porky said:
100% correct. Casserio is part of the problem and isn’t even a real GM. He is a highly paid errand boy and has screwed up various items, to include contract mgmt, poor drafting, completely botched coaching searches et al. He gets some credit for the Watson trade, but even then, there was some chaos and some poor decisions. He gets a d+ from me. It’s not good enough, and we need the Easterby stink off this team completely and a totally new start from the top down.
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Nick Caserio is just another Bill Belichick flunky.
 
Mr teX said:
Guys vying for 1 of the exclusive 32 NFL HC jobs don’t care nearly as much as fans do about the revolving door owners can have with their previous HC’s. They understand you’re hired to be fired at some point.

The gig is more appealing than it was a year ago and probably more appealing now than it has probably ever been with all the future draft capital & cap space coming. Likely a new shiny qb to hitch their wagon to.

Gannon had tons of coaching experience but only 1 year as a coordinator at the time of his interview last year. A year later he’s got more experience as a coordinator and is running 1 of the league’s best defenses.

Aside from that, how many HC gigs do we think will come open next year? Arizona for sure, probably Denver…possibly Dallas and Washington depending on what happens with them in the playoffs. Our gig compares favorably with all those imo.
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I would prefer an offensive head coach but would be OK with a great defensive head coach if he can bring in a tremendous OC.
 
Mr teX said:
Guys vying for 1 of the exclusive 32 NFL HC jobs don’t care nearly as much as fans do about the revolving door owners can have with their previous HC’s. They understand you’re hired to be fired at some point.

The gig is more appealing than it was a year ago and probably more appealing now than it has probably ever been with all the future draft capital & cap space coming. Likely a new shiny qb to hitch their wagon to.

Gannon had tons of coaching experience but only 1 year as a coordinator at the time of his interview last year. A year later he’s got more experience as a coordinator and is running 1 of the league’s best defenses.

Aside from that, how many HC gigs do we think will come open next year? Arizona for sure, probably Denver…possibly Dallas and Washington depending on what happens with them in the playoffs. Our gig compares favorably with all those imo.
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Most definitely . I think some fans are just jiving around.
 
IDEXAN said:
Listening to "The general" John McClain recently and he seems to think that Lovie is gone after the conclusion of this season.
I dunno does McClain have feel for what's going on with the Texans these days or is he instead clueless ?
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A couple of week ago. I heard "The General" on 610. He said that the McNairs would not fire Lovie because they don't want the optics of an unstable team by firing two consecutive HCs after only one season. I think McClain has all of his bases covered.

BTW. Has any NFL team fired two consecutive HCs after only one season? Not even Bud Adams could pull that trick.
 
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Earl34 said:
A couple of week ago. I heard "The General" on 610. He said that the McNairs would not fire Lovie because they don't want the optics of an unstable team by firing two consecutive HCs after only one season. I think McClain has all of his bases covered.

BTW. Has any NFL team fired two consecutive HCs after only one season? Not even Bud Adams could pull that trick.
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Incompetence by ownership.
 
Double Barrel said:
I think the forum collective has more insight to the Texans than McClain these days. I like John, but he's good for war stories, not hot takes.
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Yep agree with you about the war stories DB, and of course that's most of all those stories from back in the day about the Oilers.
And the Oilers are my wifes team as she's a real Houstonian where as I'm a midwest transplant and am most sentimental about the Texans, even more so than my hometown KC Chiefs now. I've been here since day one with the Texans, and I bleed well I dunno what color. My wife gripes about the Texans lack of identity, for example she asks what is their primary color, who knows ?
We knew with the Oilers, just as we know with the Chiefs.
Anyway I digressed but what say you DB, is Lovie the HC here in Houston in 2023 or do the McNairs go one & done again with their coach ?
 
Earl34 said:
The Katy and North Shore high school HCs walked into a bar with Caserio. Both HCs walked out laughing.
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If we hired the channel view coach it would at least create a huge rivalry anytime we played his son and the eagles.
 
Earl34 said:
A couple of week ago. I heard "The General" on 610. He said that the McNairs would not fire Lovie because they don't want the optics of an unstable team by firing two consecutive HCs after only one season. I think McClain has all of his bases covered.

BTW. Has any NFL team fired two consecutive HCs after only one season? Not even Bud Adams could pull that trick.
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To be fair it has now been 2 more weeks...
 
Texansballer74 said:
Lovie not going anywhere lol
www.espn.com

Sources: NFL reminds owners of costly firings

NFL officials have informed the owners of the league's 32 franchises that teams have spent $800 million on fired coaches and front-office executives over the past five years, league sources told ESPN.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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At some point Cal has to stop doing the PC thing and start worrying about the on field product.
 
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