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Davis Mills getting no respect

Mr teX said:
oh ok….JOSH allen has on offense built around him and what he does best…and uh Stephon Diggs too.
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Not talking about the team.
Just what the QB needs to do on a given play.
(ie., not going with the first read if it's not there).
 
steelbtexan said:
I hope they're wrong.

Use this draft to build the team out and set them up to draft a QB in 2024.

Did fans not learn anything from forcing the QB pick when McNair made Casserly pick Carr. That pick set the franchise back for at least 7 yrs. I guess some posters like this for a few more wins early in the rebuild.

I can see nothing has been learned by some.
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Wait....that's not Caserio, it's just another opinionated talking head.
 
Speedy said:
Other than running the ball more and I guess terminology maybe, what exactly is this new system he's supposedly trying to learn? And whatever it is, isn't suppose to be about the same as what he had with Pep at Stanford?

And how exactly are Mills and Nico more in sync when 91 players average more catches per game than he does?
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Maybe it has something to do with Pep running the majority of his pass plays through Cooks, who isn't close to be the Cooks of last season. He's not getting open. Now that it appears Cooks can't take the top off defenses, it makes it much easier to contain the other receivers. Stanford didn't emphasize their TE's during Pep's time and it appears they've once again been forgotten by Pep here in Houston. It's sad b/c from what I can see....the TE's could be a pretty effective weapon for Mills and the offense.

Mills has his faults to correct, but in all reality he was the perfect pick in RD3 b/c like the rest team.....it's going to be a development process for 2-3 seasons minimum.
 
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76Texan said:
Watch the replay.


Even if the receiver was to run the route where Mills threw the ball too, Mills telegraphed the play from the start.

Two guys were to converge on the receiver.

Mills has got to know this.

Plus he knew, as the QB, that the INSIDE route will draw the other safety to the offensive left (the middle of the field).

The corner route to the right will be in one and one.
Watch the beginning of the play, you can see the way the play was designed that no. 15 will be in one on one one the right side against Cover 4.

I really don't think it's a good read nor a good execution of the play by Mills.

In a nutshell, if the QB sees a double team, he needs to move on to next read.
Mills didn't even seem to acknowledge the double team.

A good QB will manipulate this play as it was to draw both safeties to that side as what happened there butqqq00 throw the corner route to the opposite side (his right).
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I concur with this. I stated the same sentiments in our gameday thread. However, when does a "good" QB get defined? Is it when he has no bad INT's for a game and/or season? My guess....Rodgers (GB) is a HoF QB1 who tossed 3 INT's against the Lions defense, does this make him a "bad" QB1 unworthy of the HoF? Mills is in his OJT development process and to think his credentials today would be that of a superb developed QB1 would be slightly asinine. Just so I understand how you observe....could you do a breakdown of that wonderful TD pass just so we know you see the good with the bad...or mistakes?
 
Mr teX said:
depends on how they’re not giving him the read. If the defense is playing disciplined and not giving u a read either way, you check it down and take what they give you. If they’re not giving you the read that you anticipate …….b/c they’re doing something else…like taking away a target via double, then that means there’s a hole somewhere else in the defense…& you have to find that hole as a qb. Thats why the presnap read is so important.

you come to the LOS, ID the coverage immediately. See where the safeties are. Are the cb’s up or back? Identify where the rush is coming from and adjust protection accordingly. The rest is just anticipate, read and react after that.
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This is where Pep would do Mills the biggest favor.....get his TE's into mismatches and exploit them.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Maybe it has something to do with Pep running the majority of his pass plays through Cooks, who isn't close to be the Cooks of last season. He's not getting open. Now that it appears Cooks can't take the top of defenses, it makes it much easier to contain the other receivers. Stanford didn't emphasize their TE's during Pep's time and it appears they've once again been forgotten by Pep here in Houston. It's sad b/c from what I can see....the TE's could be a pretty effective weapon for Mills and the offense.

Mills has his faults to correct, but in all reality he was the perfect pick in RD3 b/c like the rest team.....it's going to be a development process for 2-3 seasons minimum.
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That’s my point. The pass game was run through Cooks last year and TE use was forgotten. So again, what new system? It seems to be the same.
 
Speedy said:
That’s my point. The pass game was run through Cooks last year and TE use was forgotten. So again, what new system? It seems to be the same.
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Different systems, but same primary target.....who can't get past coverage this season.
 
Speedy said:
That’s my point. The pass game was run through Cooks last year and TE use was forgotten. So again, what new system? It seems to be the same.
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The difference is that Tim Kelly started opening things up in the last half of the season, and Mills flourished. TK knew he wasn't going to be back in Houston, so the last half of the season was his audition for other teams.

Pep has started off the 1st half of this season with piss-poor conservative game planning. In the last game against Philly, Pep was less conservative, and the offense looked much better, and other than a few boneheaded plays, Mills played much better. Is Pep's play calling so conservative because it is his true philosophy, or is he being so conservative because that is what Lovie wants?
 
vtech9 said:
The difference is that Tim Kelly started opening things up in the last half of the season, and Mills flourished. TK knew he wasn't going to be back in Houston, so the last half of the season was his audition for other teams.

Pep has started off the 1st half of this season with piss-poor conservative game planning. In the last game against Philly, Pep was less conservative, and the offense looked much better, and other than a few boneheaded plays, Mills played much better. Is Pep's play calling so conservative because it is his true philosophy, or is he being so conservative because that is what Lovie wants?
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Lovie
 
26

Davis Mills
Houston Texans · Year 2
2022 stats: 8 games | 62.8 pct | 1,656 pass yds | 6.4 ypa | 10 pass TD | 8 INT | 28 rush yds | 0 rush TD | 4 fumbles



Mills blends into the woodwork. It's nearly impossible to envision him as anything higher than a long-term No. 2 option in the realm of pro football. He produced a pair of scores in a closer-than-expected Thursday Night Football bout with the Eagles, but also suffered a pick on a dangerous third-down heave into traffic. His second interception came on a throw to the goal line where his target, Phillip Dorsett, was on a different page inside a different book. It's tough to imagine what he'd need to accomplish to keep the role past Week 18.
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NFL QB Index, Week 10: Justin Fields vaults into top 10; Matthew Stafford tumbles out of top 20

www.nfl.com
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I concur with this. I stated the same sentiments in our gameday thread. However, when does a "good" QB get defined? Is it when he has no bad INT's for a game and/or season? My guess....Rodgers (GB) is a HoF QB1 who tossed 3 INT's against the Lions defense, does this make him a "bad" QB1 unworthy of the HoF? Mills is in his OJT development process and to think his credentials today would be that of a superb developed QB1 would be slightly asinine. Just so I understand how you observe....could you do a breakdown of that wonderful TD pass just so we know you see the good with the bad...or mistakes?
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What I remember is how a fellow Texans talk member praised Mills's comeback game in college.

And I countered that he had a lot of helps in that game.

Defensive stops and turnovers of the sort.

But Mills had never shown that he can bring back a team.
That he can make the other guys look better.

I've already said that I don't want another Schaub.

Mills isn't a bad QB , but he's also not a different maker.

Various websites have been ranking him between 25 and dead last.

I don't care.
I just don't see the upside in him.

And my record about QBs is really good over the years.

Mills cannot perform under pressure.
Do you see any evidence that says otherwise?
 
76Texan said:
What I remember is how a fellow Texans talk member praised Mills's comeback game in college.

And I countered that he had a lot of helps in that game.

Defensive stops and turnovers of the sort.

But Mills had never shown that he can bring back a team.
That he can make the other guys look better.

I've already said that I don't want another Schaub.

Mills isn't a bad QB , but he's also not a different maker.

Various websites have been ranking him between 25 and dead last.

I don't care.
I just don't see the upside in him.

And my record about QBs is really good over the years.

Mills cannot perform under pressure.
Do you see any evidence that says otherwise?
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That's a question I'd really like to hear Lovie and Pep give an answer to. Mills is still in a development season. Seasons not over so I'm still watching and observing. When Mills has had good drives, he tends to look like a high-potential QB that can more than do the job. When Mills is bad, it's ugly. This is where a solid QB coach can sit down with him and help correct those mistakes. I believe some of the 4th quarter issues lie at the feet of Lovie and Pep. Making Burkhead the feature back in 4th quarters simply has defensive coordinators laughing as the most predictable in the NFL is now on the field......this will backfire on the Mills development process.

I believe that one of the biggest issues by Lovie and Pep has been they've ignored the good to great drives by Mills. From the looks, they have Mills adhering strictly to their plan of attack. I'd like to see them build off what he's done right under Center and adjust/modify their offense to work with those strengths. Also, quit neutering the offense late in the 3rd or 4th quarters. Let Mills ball out on every down and put this "play not to lose" mentality to bed. I believe a blowout here and there would help every player in their growth.
 
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76Texan said:
What I remember is how a fellow Texans talk member praised Mills's comeback game in college.

And I countered that he had a lot of helps in that game.

Defensive stops and turnovers of the sort.

But Mills had never shown that he can bring back a team.
That he can make the other guys look better.

I've already said that I don't want another Schaub.

Mills isn't a bad QB , but he's also not a different maker.

Various websites have been ranking him between 25 and dead last.

I don't care.
I just don't see the upside in him.

And my record about QBs is really good over the years.

Mills cannot perform under pressure.
Do you see any evidence that says otherwise?
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So you must not want a QB drafted in this years draft?
 
steelbtexan said:
So you must not want a QB drafted in this years draft?
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Plenty of QBs in this upcoming draft that had staged come backs while the defense was struggling.

I would take Clayton Tune before I take Davis Mills for that reason.

The offensive line can be leaky at times; the running game inconsistent by college standard, but he persevered
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That's a question I'd really like to hear Lovie and Pep give n answer to. Mills is still in a development season. Seasons not over so I'm still watching and observing. When Mills has had good drives, he tends to look like a high-potential QB that can more than do the job. When Mills is bad, it's ugly. This is where a solid QB coach can sit down with him and help correct those mistakes. I believe some of the 4th quarter issues lie at the feet of Lovie and Pep. Making Burkhead the feature back in 4th quarters simply has defensive coordinators laughing as the most predictable in the NFL is now on the field......this will backfire on the Mills development process.

I believe the one of the biggest issues, Lovie and Pep have ignored the good to great drives by Mills, while having Mills adhere strictly to their plan of attack. I'd like to see them build off what he's done right under Center and adjust/modify their offense to work with his strengths. Also, quit neutering the offense late in the 3rd or 4th quarters. Let Mills ball out on every down and put this "play not to lose" mentality to bed. I believe a blowout here and there would help every player in their growth.
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There were several beat downs last year.

It doesn't look as bad this year on the score board for one reason or another, but the D is still 30th in yards allowed.

When they open up the offense, a turnover often happened. Mills has not shown he can handle the rigor consistently.
 
76Texan said:
There were several beat downs last year.

It doesn't look as bad this year on the score board for one reason or another, but the D is still 30th in yards allowed.

When they open up the offense, a turnover often happened. Mills has not shown he can handle the rigor consistently.
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Did those beat downs happen during his first 6 NFL starts are the last 5?
 
That was the last of his first 6 games. 4 of his 5 last games were outstanding efforts and were a big reason why many of us believed he could take another step in his development. Somehow Lovie and Pep figured out how to stunt that next step while adding a running game that didn't really exist last season.

Colts 31 - Texans 00: Mills played the 2nd half after Taylor was pulled.

Seahawks 33 - Texans 13: Mills 33-49 / 331 YDS / 1 TD - 0 INT
Texans 30 - Jags 16: Mills 19-30 / 209 YDS / 2 TD - 1 INT
Chargers 29 - Texans 41: Mills 21-27 / 254 YDS / 2 TD - 0 INT
Texans 07 - 49'ers 23: Mills 21-32 / 163 TDS / 1 TD - 1 INT
Titans 28 - Texans 25: Mills 23-33 / 301 YDS / 3 TD - 0 INT

Examine those starts when you get a chance and find the positives.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That was the last of his first 6 games. 4 of his 5 last games were outstanding efforts and were a big reason why many of us believed he could take another step in his development. Somehow Lovie and Pep figured out how to stunt that next step while adding a running game that didn't really exist last season.

Colts 31 - Texans 00: Mills played the 2nd half after Taylor was pulled.

Seahawks 33 - Texans 13: Mills 33-49 / 331 YDS / 1 TD - 0 INT
Texans 30 - Jags 16: Mills 19-30 / 209 YDS / 2 TD - 1 INT
Chargers 29 - Texans 41: Mills 21-27 / 254 YDS / 2 TD - 0 INT
Texans 07 - 49'ers 23: Mills 21-32 / 163 TDS / 1 TD - 1 INT
Titans 28 - Texans 25: Mills 23-33 / 301 YDS / 3 TD - 0 INT

Examine those starts when you get a chance and find the positives.
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Check our those defenses.

Niners played 20 guys on defense.
It was like a scrimmage for them.
Mills was pedestrian.
The Texans scored a whopping 7 points.

Titans didn't play their whole deck.
21 guys played on D.
And they were cruising when the Texans scored a meaningless TD in the fourth.
 
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76Texan said:
What I remember is how a fellow Texans talk member praised Mills's comeback game in college.

And I countered that he had a lot of helps in that game.

Defensive stops and turnovers of the sort.

But Mills had never shown that he can bring back a team.
That he can make the other guys look better.

I've already said that I don't want another Schaub.

Mills isn't a bad QB , but he's also not a different maker.

Various websites have been ranking him between 25 and dead last.

I don't care.
I just don't see the upside in him.

And my record about QBs is really good over the years.

Mills cannot perform under pressure.
Do you see any evidence that says otherwise?
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I think the question is would taking the pressure off Mills with the best Right Guard and the best Center in the next draft plus two excellent wide receivers make him good enough to get you to the big game?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That's a question I'd really like to hear Lovie and Pep give an answer to. Mills is still in a development season. Seasons not over so I'm still watching and observing. When Mills has had good drives, he tends to look like a high-potential QB that can more than do the job. When Mills is bad, it's ugly. This is where a solid QB coach can sit down with him and help correct those mistakes. I believe some of the 4th quarter issues lie at the feet of Lovie and Pep. Making Burkhead the feature back in 4th quarters simply has defensive coordinators laughing as the most predictable in the NFL is now on the field......this will backfire on the Mills development process.

I believe that one of the biggest issues by Lovie and Pep has been they've ignored the good to great drives by Mills. From the looks, they have Mills adhering strictly to their plan of attack. I'd like to see them build off what he's done right under Center and adjust/modify their offense to work with those strengths. Also, quit neutering the offense late in the 3rd or 4th quarters. Let Mills ball out on every down and put this "play not to lose" mentality to bed. I believe a blowout here and there would help every player in their growth.
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If what you are saying about lovie and pep is correct and I think it is; why should they remain as team leaders going forward? It would be obvious that they cannot make the best decisions for a developmental starting quarterback.
 
badboy said:
I think the question is would taking the pressure off Mills with the best Right Guard and the best Center in the next draft plus two excellent wide receivers make him good enough to get you to the big game?
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And could any QB get there with the same defense
 
badboy said:
I think the question is would taking the pressure off Mills with the best Right Guard and the best Center in the next draft plus two excellent wide receivers make him good enough to get you to the big game?
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How are you going to do that while Kenyon Green is not looking too good right now.

And what to do with the defense?
 
badboy said:
I think the question is would taking the pressure off Mills with the best Right Guard and the best Center in the next draft plus two excellent wide receivers make him good enough to get you to the big game?
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For this to come close to happening, we would need to trade out of the #1 pick. Based on this past draft, we can expect the team to alternate offensive and defensive picks. We'd have to get an additional high number two pick, if not a third number one, and maybe use this pick to trade back up into the first. Lovie's going to want two high picks for his defense.

I'd be totally on board with something like this happening. We would undoubtedly also get a third number one in the 24 draft and who knows what additional future draft capital.
 
Doc108 said:
Right guard is not a big enough priority to be spending draft picks on unless a guy that we just love falls down to the second or third. AJ Cann has played reasonably well this year
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Yep as of today November the 10th and prior to the Giants game AJ Cann is at 68% PFF with Howard at 70% and Tunsil at 86%. PFF is not the only evaluation scale that we should depend on but it is an indicator. We can get by with improving the center this off season.
 
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76Texan said:
How are you going to do that while Kenyon Green is not looking too good right now.

And what to do with the defense?
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My position would be to see how Green responds the rest of this season. Who amongst us thought Green would not be doing better than this when he was drafted? I still am not okay with our coaching including of offensive line. I have advocated drafting Andrew Voorhees in round two who can play both guard positions and the little offensive tackle if necessary.
 
Number19 said:
For this to come close to happening, we would need to trade out of the #1 pick. Based on this past draft, we can expect the team to alternate offensive and defensive picks. We'd have to get an additional high number two pick, if not a third number one, and maybe use this pick to trade back up into the first. Lovie's going to want two high picks for his defense.

I'd be totally on board with something like this happening. We would undoubtedly also get a third number one in the 24 draft and who knows what additional future draft capital.
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76Texan said:
How are you going to do that while Kenyon Green is not looking too good right now.

And what to do with the defense?
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If we go with Davis next season we can trade down out of both of our round one picks which I have extremely high.

Optimistic gets teased because of his mock drafts but I personally do not think he is far off on some of them. For example I have a mock with trades from

1.1 to Lions bringing 3 +16 +36 +68.

Then trade 1.3 with Seattle who jumps Panthers .
Texans get 9+ 22 + 41 + 51.

9 + 10 Browns + 16 + 22 + 32 [Miami forfeit] + 36 + 41 + 51 + 63 +66 + 72 + rounds 4 thru 7.

Caserio's trades indicate a possibility; of course some picks from 2024 rather than 2023 could work.

Just my two cents but this is not a good offseason to pick up free agents other than a possible middle linebacker.
 
76Texan said:
Check our those defenses.

Niners played 20 guys on defense.
It was like a scrimmage for them.
Mills was pedestrian.
The Texans scored a whopping 7 points.

Titans didn't play their whole deck.
21 guys played on D.
And they were cruising when the Texans scored a meaningless TD in the fourth.
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I didn’t ask for excuses…..just observations for the positives accomplished in those games.

What I’m gathering….you have an issue with Mills and think everyone else should have as well. Your agenda just comes off as short sighted.
 
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badboy said:
I think the question is would taking the pressure off Mills with the best Right Guard and the best Center in the next draft plus two excellent wide receivers make him good enough to get you to the big game?
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Let Caserio get him those tools and then we’d have the answer at some point next season.
 
badboy said:
If what you are saying about lovie and pep is correct and I think it is; why should they remain as team leaders going forward? It would be obvious that they cannot make the best decisions for a developmental starting quarterback.
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I’d love for Caserio to let Lovie and his staff know they’re being evaluated for the 2023 season. Lack of talent would certainly be taken into account, but not an excuse for poor scheming and execution.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Let Caserio get him those tools and then we’d have the answer at some point next season.
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Nope.. just me [and probably a few hundred or1000s more] but I choose not to wait until next season to make decision on Mills and coaches. We need positions filled no matter who is QB and if Mills isn't that guy I want a QB in 2023 and if he doesn't look right by end of 2023 I'm drafting another in 2024 which will probably be our last shot at top 8 or so QB. Yep I hear all the wah wah about you don't know what your getting and blah blah blah but that is true of all players. There is zero assurance if we skip 2023 we can get this premium position in 2024. Texans in an unusual position due to Watson haul + both selections appearing to be high and I'm tired of being patient. smiley face
 
Eberu
OptimisticTexan said:
I didn’t ask for excuses…..just observations for the positives accomplished in those games.

What I’m gathering….you have an issue with Mills and think everyone else should have as well. Your agenda just comes off as short sighted.
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Most everybody has an agenda.

Like with Matt Schaub, many of us thought that he was OK, with a whole team built to support him; but it's not easy to cover up some of his shortcomings.

That was why even as I supported him from the very start, I had always looked for an opportunity to upgrade (Wilson, Cousins, Keenum) all in that one year.

That was also why I disagreed with O'Brien bringing guys like Fitz and so on.

The agenda is to get a QB that has the talent to help the team compete at a high level.
(Mahomes, Watson for example.)

When they took Watson, you didn't hear me complaining.
 
badboy said:
Nope.. just me [and probably a few hundred or1000s more] but I choose not to wait until next season to make decision on Mills and coaches. We need positions filled no matter who is QB and if Mills isn't that guy I want a QB in 2023 and if he doesn't look right by end of 2023 I'm drafting another in 2024 which will probably be our last shot at top 8 or so QB. Yep I hear all the wah wah about you don't know what your getting and blah blah blah but that is true of all players. There is zero assurance if we skip 2023 we can get this premium position in 2024. Texans in an unusual position due to Watson haul + both selections appearing to be high and I'm tired of being patient. smiley face
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When have you ever been patient?

Lack of patience is a big reason why this franchise has been a loser.

Hopefully Cal will be different than his daddy, I doubt it though.
 
JB said:
Obviously it's all Mills fault
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Seriously don't most of think that Mills has the necessary passing skills/physical talent to be a starting NFL QB ?
So the reason(s) for his failure to progress further are found elsewhere: the coaching he's receiving, the supporting cast provided by his teammates, and/or deficiencies between his ears.
What do you think about that JB ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Seriously don't most of think that Mills has the necessary passing skills/physical talent to be a starting NFL QB ?
So the reason(s) for his failure to progress further are found elsewhere: the coaching he's receiving, the supporting cast provided by his teammates, and/or deficiencies between his ears.
What do you think about that JB ?
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That's debatable but the Texans put him in this role so it's what we have for now.
 
IDEXAN said:
Seriously don't most of think that Mills has the necessary passing skills/physical talent to be a starting NFL QB ?
So the reason(s) for his failure to progress further are found elsewhere: the coaching he's receiving, the supporting cast provided by his teammates, and/or deficiencies between his ears.
What do you think about that JB ?
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There are lots here that don't think Mills can ever be a viable starting QB. I think he can and his struggles are for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus patience is hard, it's an instant gratification thing being a fan. Until your team wins a championship, they are never good enough.
 
JB said:
There are lots here that don't think Mills can ever be a viable starting QB. I think he can and his struggles are for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus patience is hard, it's an instant gratification thing being a fan. Until your team wins a championship, they are never good enough.
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Mills shows flashes of being really good in almost every game he plays. The problem being he never has enough of those flashes, something always goes wrong. I'm willing to blame Mills for at least half of it, but not the other half. This ain't all Mills' fault.
 
JB said:
There are lots here that don't think Mills can ever be a viable starting QB. I think he can and his struggles are for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus patience is hard, it's an instant gratification thing being a fan. Until your team wins a championship, they are never good enough.
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Yea agree with all of that.
 
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