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Lol..must be why his peers voted him the 18th best player in the league for that year..…his completion percentage “under pressure”…whatever the hell that means.
Some of y’all cant compartmentalize.

The narrator summed it up perfectly.
“the skills are no mystery…Almost everything else is”

 
So, if Watson plays the 2022 NFL season……what’s the Browns record going to look like?

For me, it’s 10+ wins and the playoffs…..while Watson finishes in the top 5 QB rankings.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
No he was not. Please look up the actual statistics.
Click to expand...
How about you look it up and post it, as you're making the assertion?
CloakNNNdagger said:
Let's not forget to mention that year Watson had an overall 39% completion rate when under pressure.
Click to expand...
How did that rank amongst the rest of the league?

I'm as disappointed at this situation as anyone. And that disappointment starts and ends with Watson. At what he's done and how he's handled it. But to post he is not an accurate QB is ridiculous. Watson is the all time leader in completion %. I realize that completion % has risen to an all time high in the NFL. And no, I do not believe Watson is as accurate as Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. But coming out and posting that he is an inaccurate QB is a ludicrous take.

If this thread is to be just a Watson bash-o-rama, OK. He's got that coming based upon his behavior and his lack of compunction. But if we're making football takes, let's try to be, I don't know, accurate.
 
Lucky said:
How about you look it up and post it, as you're making the assertion?

How did that rank amongst the rest of the league?

I'm as disappointed at this situation as anyone. And that disappointment starts and ends with Watson. At what he's done and how he's handled it. But to post he is not an accurate QB is ridiculous. Watson is the all time leader in completion %. I realize that completion % has risen to an all time high in the NFL. And no, I do not believe Watson is as accurate as Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. But coming out and posting that he is an inaccurate QB is a ludicrous take.

If this thread is to be just a Watson bash-o-rama, OK. He's got that coming based upon his behavior and his lack of compunction. But if we're making football takes, let's try to be, I don't know, accurate.
Click to expand...
Lee big Easy is the one who said he was top FIVE without any statistics. So don’t come one sided.
 
Lucky said:
How about you look it up and post it, as you're making the assertion?

How did that rank amongst the rest of the league?

I'm as disappointed at this situation as anyone. And that disappointment starts and ends with Watson. At what he's done and how he's handled it. But to post he is not an accurate QB is ridiculous. Watson is the all time leader in completion %. I realize that completion % has risen to an all time high in the NFL. And no, I do not believe Watson is as accurate as Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. But coming out and posting that he is an inaccurate QB is a ludicrous take.

If this thread is to be just a Watson bash-o-rama, OK. He's got that coming based upon his behavior and his lack of compunction. But if we're making football takes, let's try to be, I don't know, accurate.
Click to expand...

I said there were questions about his accuracy and deep ball in college, which is true, and questions about it in his NFL career which is also true. Yes 2020 was his best year I'm not denying that but it was also the year teams were regularly running away with the score against us and several of the defenses we played were not very good. All I'm saying is it will be interesting to see how he does in that division where there is the Jags and, to a lesser extent, the Colts and Tits to beat up on. Steelers, Ravens and now even the Bengals defenses are no joke.

Lucky said:
@leebigeztx provided a link for Watson's accuracy under pressure (for 2018). You provided zilch.

Waiting...
Click to expand...

Didn't spend alot of time on it but he wasn't top 10 in either 2019 or 2020

www.nfl.com

Top 10 QBs under pressure: Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr shine

Nick Shook lines up the 10 best QBs under pressure in 2019. Was anyone cooler under fire than Ryan Tannehill? Where do Lamar Jackson and Derek Carr rank?
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com

www.nfl.com

Next Gen Stats' top 10 QBs under pressure in 2020: Ryan Fitzpatrick outshines competition

Nick Shook uses Next Gen Stats to rank the quarterbacks who performed the best under pressure in 2020. Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers made the list, as you'd expect, but there's a surprise at the top.
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
 
Last edited:
maverick512000 said:
Didn't spend alot of time on it but he wasn't top 10 in either 2019 or 2020

www.nfl.com

Top 10 QBs under pressure: Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr shine

Nick Shook lines up the 10 best QBs under pressure in 2019. Was anyone cooler under fire than Ryan Tannehill? Where do Lamar Jackson and Derek Carr rank?
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
www.nfl.com

Next Gen Stats' top 10 QBs under pressure in 2020: Ryan Fitzpatrick outshines competition

Nick Shook uses Next Gen Stats to rank the quarterbacks who performed the best under pressure in 2020. Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers made the list, as you'd expect, but there's a surprise at the top.
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
Click to expand...
You're right. We should believe the stat that says Andy Dalton and Daniel Jones are more accurate passers than Watson.

Really? Are we making this argument? Was there any team chasing Watson last month that would have preferred Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick (with magic), Daniel Jones, or Ryan Tannehill? The teams in the league have their own analytics. They know exactly what's going on. What are they telling you?

It's OK to not like the man without making up crap stats about the player.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
NextGenerationStats:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1067205297935081472
Click to expand...

that graphic says its from 2018..which was not his best year. But why dont you pull up the PFF grades & next gen stats of the o-line he had in front of him in 2018 while you’re at it too….kinda explains alot. All them dudes are now out of the league…so yeah theres that.

But it should also be noted that the team went 11-5 that year…..& the company in which he was in on that list..Brees, Wilson…right underneath him…did they suck too?
 
Mr teX said:
that graphic says its from 2018..which was not his best year. But why dont you pull up the PFF grades & next gen stats of the o-line he had in front of him in 2018 while you’re at it too….kinda explains alot. All them dudes are now out of the league…so yeah theres that.

But it should also be noted that the team went 11-5 that year…..& the company in which he was in on that list..Brees, Wilson…right underneath him…did they suck too?
Click to expand...
I responded to posts that referred to specifically 2018 stats.
 
Anyone find it weirdly amusing that we can’t stop talking about Watson - good or bad?

I understand the bad because Watson is like a cheating whore of an x-wife that you still keep up with because you are jaded.

The good I can’t identify with. It is like they are the type of guys who can look past the cheating whore of an x-wife acts and believe that there were actually some “good times.”

Amusing none the less.

Btw - F you Sharon. I mean Watson.
 
Lucky said:
You're right. We should believe the stat that says Andy Dalton and Daniel Jones are more accurate passers than Watson.

Really? Are we making this argument? Was there any team chasing Watson last month that would have preferred Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick (with magic), Daniel Jones, or Ryan Tannehill? The teams in the league have their own analytics. They know exactly what's going on. What are they telling you?

It's OK to not like the man without making up crap stats about the player.
Click to expand...

Slow your roll there, I didn't "make up" anything unless you think I'm Nick Shook which I assure you I am not. You asked for evidence so I just did a quick google search for my own curiosity and that's what I found. Sorry if I thought NFL.com to be a good source for information about the NFL. In the future please provide a list of sites you will accept numbers from. I agree entirely that teams have their own analytics which we on this board, and every other fan board, spend a lot of time talking about how dumb our team's is.

Your issue is you think I can't separate Watson the man from Watson the player. What you are ignoring though is that a lot of people are questioning if Watson is a team's missing piece or if he is just a highlight reel guy. Fact is we had the same record Watson's best year as we did without him and arguably we had a worse team the year without him. Thats not all on him but part of being a great QB is you find ways to win.
 
maverick512000 said:
Slow your roll there, I didn't "make up" anything unless you think I'm Nick Shook which I assure you I am not. You asked for evidence so I just did a quick google search for my own curiosity and that's what I found. Sorry if I thought NFL.com to be a good source for information about the NFL. In the future please provide a list of sites you will accept numbers from. I agree entirely that teams have their own analytics which we on this board, and every other fan board, spend a lot of time talking about how dumb our team's is.

Your issue is you think I can't separate Watson the man from Watson the player. What you are ignoring though is that a lot of people are questioning if Watson is a team's missing piece or if he is just a highlight reel guy. Fact is we had the same record Watson's best year as we did without him and arguably we had a worse team the year without him. Thats not all on him but part of being a great QB is you find ways to win.
Click to expand...
Per NextGenerationStats:

"Pressures can come from holding onto the ball too long, playing behind a poor offensive line, or extending the play. No matter the reason for the pressure, the quarterback must be able to deliver with defenders in his face."
 
maverick512000 said:
Slow your roll there, I didn't "make up" anything unless you think I'm Nick Shook which I assure you I am not. You asked for evidence so I just did a quick google search for my own curiosity and that's what I found. Sorry if I thought NFL.com to be a good source for information about the NFL. In the future please provide a list of sites you will accept numbers from. I agree entirely that teams have their own analytics which we on this board, and every other fan board, spend a lot of time talking about how dumb our team's is.

Your issue is you think I can't separate Watson the man from Watson the player. What you are ignoring though is that a lot of people are questioning if Watson is a team's missing piece or if he is just a highlight reel guy. Fact is we had the same record Watson's best year as we did without him and arguably we had a worse team the year without him. Thats not all on him but part of being a great QB is you find ways to win.
Click to expand...
When you have a historically worse defense that created 7 turnovers, what are you supposed to do about that? If he had the defense along with the turnovers of the defense last year, that team wins 9 to 10 games. Listen, he's gone, he made some very bad choices off the field, but people on this board trying to act like he's not a top shelf qb which he is. Its entertaining to say the least.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Per NextGenerationStats:

"Pressures can come from holding onto the ball too long, playing behind a poor offensive line, or extending the play. No matter the reason for the pressure, the quarterback must be able to deliver with defenders in his face."
Click to expand...

thats rich….do you apply that kind of bottom line rationale to all qb’s or just the ones you have an axe to grind with?
 
I’m sorry. I read most of the posts on the last two pages. But I’m lost (no surprise)

but what exactly are we arguing?
 
Could the Browns need Baker Mayfield for 2022?
May 2, 2022, 11:38 AM EDT


The Browns are done with Baker Mayfield. And Baker Mayfield is done with the Browns. Unless they aren’t.
With few viable options for a trade and a fully-guaranteed salary of $18.8 million, the Browns apparently plan to squat on Mayfield, indefinitely. Like the 49ers, the Browns intend to wait if necessary on a freak injury that, while not unprecedented (Teddy Bridgewater, 2016), is highly unlikely.


On the scale of events that possibly could happen, it’s far more likely that, instead of a starting quarterback with some other team being lost to injury for a full year, the Browns will lose their starting quarterback for a full year, due to a suspension. At a time when the NFL stubbornly keeps its cards close to the vest on off-field issues, there continues to be a loose sense that Watson will be suspended for four or six games, eight at the most.

What if the loose sense is wrong? What if the NFL, influenced by 22 claims of sexual misconduct during massages and the two-year banishment imposed on Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer by Major League Baseball, the Commissioner imposes a one-year suspension on Watson?

There’s another important factor at play here. Other owners are pissed about the five-year, $230 million guaranteed deal given by the Browns to Watson. Surely, they’re letting the Commissioner hear about it. Sort of like when the other owners were letting the Commissioner hear about the perceived wrist slap the Patriots received for Spygate. Which contributed directly to the trumped-up charges and conclusions in Deflategate.

So the Browns may need Mayfield, and it could be a tenuous win-win. He needs a place to play — and to play well — as he prepares to become a free agent. The Browns may need a starter for all, not just part, of 2022.
The sooner the Browns know what will happen, the better suited the Browns will be to make good decisions about Mayfield. If Watson ends up not playing at all in 2022, the best decision could be to rebuild the bridge, albeit temporarily, with Baker.

And if that can’t happen, they could trade Baker straight up for Sam Darnold, swapping identical $18.8 million base salaries and taking some solace in the reality that Darnold, for better or worse, is not Mayfield.
 
leebigeztx said:
When you have a historically worse defense that created 7 turnovers, what are you supposed to do about that? If he had the defense along with the turnovers of the defense last year, that team wins 9 to 10 games. Listen, he's gone, he made some very bad choices off the field, but people on this board trying to act like he's not a top shelf qb which he is. Its entertaining to say the least.
Click to expand...

He's not bad, he's just not the elite QB some on this MB think he is. The holes in his game are very real.

I won't be responding for fear of getting banned.
 
steelbtexan said:
He's not bad, he's just not the elite QB some on this MB think he is. The holes in his game are very real.

I won't be responding for fear of getting banned.
Click to expand...
Of course I disagree and I'm not worried about getting banned. Banned for what? Giving criticism of a player and being professional about it? I mean, what are we talking about? Anyway, there are posters that post something in this thread everyday based on speculation and assumptions. I mean alot of post in a watson to cleveland thread on a Texans message board. I mean, I guess.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Could the Browns need Baker Mayfield for 2022?
May 2, 2022, 11:38 AM EDT


The Browns are done with Baker Mayfield. And Baker Mayfield is done with the Browns. Unless they aren’t.
With few viable options for a trade and a fully-guaranteed salary of $18.8 million, the Browns apparently plan to squat on Mayfield, indefinitely. Like the 49ers, the Browns intend to wait if necessary on a freak injury that, while not unprecedented (Teddy Bridgewater, 2016), is highly unlikely.


On the scale of events that possibly could happen, it’s far more likely that, instead of a starting quarterback with some other team being lost to injury for a full year, the Browns will lose their starting quarterback for a full year, due to a suspension. At a time when the NFL stubbornly keeps its cards close to the vest on off-field issues, there continues to be a loose sense that Watson will be suspended for four or six games, eight at the most.

What if the loose sense is wrong? What if the NFL, influenced by 22 claims of sexual misconduct during massages and the two-year banishment imposed on Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer by Major League Baseball, the Commissioner imposes a one-year suspension on Watson?

There’s another important factor at play here. Other owners are pissed about the five-year, $230 million guaranteed deal given by the Browns to Watson. Surely, they’re letting the Commissioner hear about it. Sort of like when the other owners were letting the Commissioner hear about the perceived wrist slap the Patriots received for Spygate. Which contributed directly to the trumped-up charges and conclusions in Deflategate.

So the Browns may need Mayfield, and it could be a tenuous win-win. He needs a place to play — and to play well — as he prepares to become a free agent. The Browns may need a starter for all, not just part, of 2022.
The sooner the Browns know what will happen, the better suited the Browns will be to make good decisions about Mayfield. If Watson ends up not playing at all in 2022, the best decision could be to rebuild the bridge, albeit temporarily, with Baker.

And if that can’t happen, they could trade Baker straight up for Sam Darnold, swapping identical $18.8 million base salaries and taking some solace in the reality that Darnold, for better or worse, is not Mayfield.
Click to expand...
If the Texans can hold on and pay Watson 10m to do nothing, I'm pretty sure the Browns can do the same if need be. Even with Baker, they have 24m in cap space and 3 player 28 yrs or older.
 
The NFL and Goodell will lose a lot of credibility if Watson is starting week 1, especially in light of MLB's two year suspension of Trevor Bauer for domestic violence and the NFL's one year suspension of Calvin Ridley for gambling.

It looks like no trial dates until after the 2022 season, so what will Goodell do? The Haslams have no allies with other owners at this point, so I doubt there would be any pushback from 31 other owners if Watson is placed on the CEL until these 22 lawsuits are resolved.

I want chaos in Cleveland simply for the potential of a losing season that helps the Texans in the 2023 draft.
 
Double Barrel said:
I want chaos in Cleveland simply for the potential of a losing season that helps the Texans in the 2023 draft.
Click to expand...

This is 1000% where I'm at on the whole mess.

I've become so overwhelmingly ambivalent to all of it - the he said she said, the mega-attorneys wrangling for public opinion, the twitter minutiae, Deshaun's misshapen face, all of it - all that matters to me anymore on a subject where the absolute truth is both unknowable and equally lost to the tug-of-war of trying 'win' the outcome is can my football team come out in the end.
 
Double Barrel said:
The NFL and Goodell will lose a lot of credibility if Watson is starting week 1, especially in light of MLB's two year suspension of Trevor Bauer for domestic violence and the NFL's one year suspension of Calvin Ridley for gambling.

It looks like no trial dates until after the 2022 season, so what will Goodell do? The Haslams have no allies with other owners at this point, so I doubt there would be any pushback from 31 other owners if Watson is placed on the CEL until these 22 lawsuits are resolved.

I want chaos in Cleveland simply for the potential of a losing season that helps the Texans in the 2023 draft.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the NFL negotiated away to the NFLPA Goodell's power to use the CEL without the player being at least charged with a crime of violence (which includes sexual assault). Watson would have to have a new criminal complaint leading to a charge (which still remains a possibility) in order to be a CEL candidate. Meanwhile, Goodell only has the suspension card to work with at this time. From a previous post in the Sexual Assault thread:

CloakNNNdagger said:
Just a little clarification. He does not have to be arrested. He simply needs to be charged.

The Commissioner's Exampt List’s three criteria: 1) a player must be charged with a felony offense or a crime of violence, 2) an NFL investigation must lead Goodell “to believe that a player may have violated” the league’s personal conduct policy, and 3) Goodell has the flexibility to temporarily place a player on the exempt list when “a crime of violence is alleged but further investigation is required.”
Click to expand...
 
You all want a mess............you've got a mess..............a big potential mess for Cleveland. Dividing reps between 3 or possibly 4 QBs prior to a season. It's hard enough to prepare a single new QB getting all the reps in a new system with new supporting casts. Now cut those reps down 2/3rds or 3/4ths and you likely come out of the preseason with 3 or 4 QBs all potentially coming into the regular season ill-prepared to start.

**********************************************************************************

Kevin Stefanski: Browns are in a “holding pattern” at QB
Myles Simmons
Tue, May 3, 2022, 4:08 PM·2 min read

Since acquiring Deshaun Watson in mid-March, Browns General Manager Andrew Berry and head coach Kevin Stefanski have consistently said that Cleveland has a unique situation at quarterback.

Watson, Jacoby Brissett, and Josh Dobbs have all been in the building for the Browns’ voluntary offseason program. Baker Mayfield has been rehabbing his surgically-repaired left shoulder away from the team as he awaits a trade to depart the organization that replaced him — though there’s no guarantee Cleveland will find him a landing spot anytime soon.

Plus, the Browns don’t know exactly if, when, or how long Watson will be suspended as a result of the 22 civil lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct during massage therapy sessions.

So for now, things remain as they are for Cleveland’s quarterbacks.

“I just think it’s kind of the nature of it. We don’t know and that’s OK,” Stefanski said in a Tuesday interview with 92.3 The Fan. “So we’re going to work through that as more information becomes available. But ultimately, we’re getting three new quarterbacks ready with Deshaun in there, Jacoby in there, and Josh Dobbs. We’ve got three new guys calling plays in the huddle. They’re different cadences, so we’ve got guys hearing those voices. So that room, there’s a lot of learning going on, there’s a ton of teaching going on.

“And then as more information becomes available, we can determine how we rotate guys in training camp and those types of things. But until we have that information, we’re really just in a holding pattern.”

Stefanski was also asked if there’s any chance Mayfield would touch the field this year for the Browns and went back to the team’s standard answer.

“You know, I think the term we’ve said all along is, ‘fluid.’ And that’s where — I can only speak to May 3rd, and we’re going to continue to try to work this every single day,” Stefanski said. “And just understand that, like we’ve talked about before, you’d love to have an answer for it three months ago, last week. It’s just, that’s not the reality of where we are. So for me and for us, I’m just going to deal with it day-to-day.”

So at least for now, Cleveland remains in a holding pattern at quarterback on multiple fronts.

********************************************************************************************

Browns in a "Holding" pattern??.............More like...........

1651750573105.png
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You all want a mess............you've got a mess..............a big potential mess for Cleveland. Dividing reps between 3 or possibly 4 QBs prior to a season. It's hard enough to prepare a single new QB getting all the reps in a new system with new supporting casts. Now cut those reps down 2/3rds or 3/4ths and you likely come out of the preseason with 3 or 4 QBs all potentially coming into the regular season ill-prepared to start.

**********************************************************************************

Kevin Stefanski: Browns are in a “holding pattern” at QB
Myles Simmons
Tue, May 3, 2022, 4:08 PM·2 min read

Since acquiring Deshaun Watson in mid-March, Browns General Manager Andrew Berry and head coach Kevin Stefanski have consistently said that Cleveland has a unique situation at quarterback.

Watson, Jacoby Brissett, and Josh Dobbs have all been in the building for the Browns’ voluntary offseason program. Baker Mayfield has been rehabbing his surgically-repaired left shoulder away from the team as he awaits a trade to depart the organization that replaced him — though there’s no guarantee Cleveland will find him a landing spot anytime soon.

Plus, the Browns don’t know exactly if, when, or how long Watson will be suspended as a result of the 22 civil lawsuits alleging sexual misconduct during massage therapy sessions.

So for now, things remain as they are for Cleveland’s quarterbacks.

“I just think it’s kind of the nature of it. We don’t know and that’s OK,” Stefanski said in a Tuesday interview with 92.3 The Fan. “So we’re going to work through that as more information becomes available. But ultimately, we’re getting three new quarterbacks ready with Deshaun in there, Jacoby in there, and Josh Dobbs. We’ve got three new guys calling plays in the huddle. They’re different cadences, so we’ve got guys hearing those voices. So that room, there’s a lot of learning going on, there’s a ton of teaching going on.

“And then as more information becomes available, we can determine how we rotate guys in training camp and those types of things. But until we have that information, we’re really just in a holding pattern.”

Stefanski was also asked if there’s any chance Mayfield would touch the field this year for the Browns and went back to the team’s standard answer.

“You know, I think the term we’ve said all along is, ‘fluid.’ And that’s where — I can only speak to May 3rd, and we’re going to continue to try to work this every single day,” Stefanski said. “And just understand that, like we’ve talked about before, you’d love to have an answer for it three months ago, last week. It’s just, that’s not the reality of where we are. So for me and for us, I’m just going to deal with it day-to-day.”

So at least for now, Cleveland remains in a holding pattern at quarterback on multiple fronts.

********************************************************************************************

Browns in a "Holding" pattern??.............More like...........

View attachment 10120
Click to expand...
Lol, the term they’ve been using all along is “fluid”. Yeah, fluid as in a water shi..t”. Even if they win a SB its Not a feel good clean win. It would be like winning a war against the Virgin Islands.
 
Do we have room to absorb bakers contract? I don’t mind taking him on and then cutting him if we can for another Cleveland 1st round pick. they can give us their 2025 first or 2030, whatever they have left, lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
pirbroke said:
Do we have room to absorb bakers contract? I don’t mind taking him on and then cutting him if we can for another Cleveland 1st round pick. they can give us their 2025 first or 2030, whatever they have left, lol.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
I'm a Baker fan. If he comes here, I'd be pushing for him to start.
 
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