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DW4 Traded to Cleveland

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leebigeztx said:
TV money is financing those salaries and making the rich get richer. When AMC is part of these strip center developments, we don't know paying for that. You won't get any argument out of me, but there are 32 of these things vs thousands of AMC's. Some of the movies have huge,ridiculous budgets also. If nobody showed to wantch the big name actors, then they wouldn't command the money they do. No different than sports.
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We, the taxpayers, are not paying for movie theaters and the studios where they create films. That is all financed privately, unlike the NFL.

It is a completely different financial model than sports. I cannot comprehend how they can be perceived the same except they are both just entertainment.

Cities should be building critical infrastructure, upgrading schools, increasing salaries of teachers, etc., not financing multi-billion dollar stadiums so billionaires can just get even richer and entitled athletes can basically be subsidized to the point of excessive salaries. For instance, New York cut social services for various things that directly benefit citizens while the same week they approve hundreds of millions to build a freakin' football stadium.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
If you were a business owner, CEO etc, would you give an employee the highest salary, bonus money, etc, ever given to someone with 22 sexual assault allegations? No you wouldn’t.

Or any rational person wouldn’t at least.
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Who had the 1st fully guaranteed contract in the nfl? Kirk Freaking Cousins. a 3 yr fully guaranteed deal,which at the time gave him the most of any player. Then,because it was restricted and Cousins is maybe the 17th best qb, they tacked on more fully guaranteed years. When Jimmy G and Derek Carr signed their deals, it made them the highest paid qb's in the nfl. This is the nfl and its about winning. Those owners don't have any kind of morals when it comes to winning. Jerry Jones knew about the white house, but he didn't care because they were winning superbowls. The Ravens owner had a guy who knew of a murder and he still played in the superbowl. The Giants owners were there when LT was doing everything under the sun. You think the Patriots didn't know Hernandez was a ganster? Nobody can be that naive when it comes to professional sports especially a win or nothing business like NFL. That contract is pennies to Haslam who gives tens of millions to the Volunteers and controls who is the head coach.
 
Double Barrel said:
We, the taxpayers, are not paying for movie theaters and the studios where they create films. That is all financed privately, unlike the NFL.

It is a completely different financial model than sports. I cannot comprehend how they can be perceived the same except they are both just entertainment.

Cities should be building critical infrastructure, upgrading schools, increasing salaries of teachers, etc., not financing multi-billion dollar stadiums so billionaires can just get even richer and entitled athletes can basically be subsidized to the point of excessive salaries. For instance, New York cut social services for various things that directly benefit citizens while the same week they approve hundreds of millions to build a freakin' football stadium.
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Exactly! The government will tell you what they think is to the state. Before you get on your high horse, who funded NRG? They hid the way the stadium was financed by car rentals and all kind of other taxes. Pretty soon, Cal is going to be smiling and asking for a new stadium also, yet, the potholes will tear up your car.
 
This is potentially disturbing, if the NFL does not create a workaround to the Browns' benefit of Watson being suspended next year. But even if a lengthy suspension does occur then, that will potentially screw with the Browns standings...........which means $$$$ lost by the Browns............and Watson would still lose significant monies. If the Browns restructure Watson's contract again in order to save him money, the Browns in subsequent years will enjoy ultra cap hell............and Watson will probably have to learn to play multi positions on both sides of the ball.

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How a 2023 Deshaun Watson suspension might help, not hurt Browns

by Elliot Kennel23 seconds ago Follow @ebkennel

A hypothetical 2023 suspension for Deshaun Watson could save the Browns millions on the salary cap.

As ridiculous as it sounds, a lengthy suspension for Deshaun Watson in 2023 might be the best possible thing that could happen to the Cleveland Browns salary cap. The word we are now getting from the lawyers is that there will not be a civil trial during the 2022 football season, meaning that it’s not very likely that Watson will be suspended this season.

Presumably, however, he might receive a lengthy suspension by the NFL in the 2023 season. Without going into the particulars of his case, which you have all read about ad nauseum for the past year, many analysts think Watson could be suspended for several games, perhaps for six to eight games.

However, that is not a disaster. Far from it.

In fact, if you stop to think about it, this is a good thing that favors the Browns, because Watson’s 2023 salary is almost unaffordable at $55 million. If Commissioner Goodell can help lop off $20 or $25 million via a suspension, that may help general manager Andrew Berry balance his budget. In effect, a suspension might actually save the Browns’ season and extend their Super Bowl window another year.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This is potentially disturbing, if the NFL does not create a workaround to the Browns' benefit of Watson being suspended next year. But even if a lengthy suspension does occur then, that will potentially screw with the Browns standings...........which means $$$$ lost by the Browns............and Watson would still lose significant monies. If the Browns restructure Watson's contract again in order to save him money, the Browns in subsequent years will enjoy ultra cap hell............and Watson will probably have to learn to play multi positions on both sides of the ball.

*************************************************************************************
How a 2023 Deshaun Watson suspension might help, not hurt Browns

by Elliot Kennel23 seconds ago Follow @ebkennel

A hypothetical 2023 suspension for Deshaun Watson could save the Browns millions on the salary cap.

As ridiculous as it sounds, a lengthy suspension for Deshaun Watson in 2023 might be the best possible thing that could happen to the Cleveland Browns salary cap. The word we are now getting from the lawyers is that there will not be a civil trial during the 2022 football season, meaning that it’s not very likely that Watson will be suspended this season.

Presumably, however, he might receive a lengthy suspension by the NFL in the 2023 season. Without going into the particulars of his case, which you have all read about ad nauseum for the past year, many analysts think Watson could be suspended for several games, perhaps for six to eight games.

However, that is not a disaster. Far from it.

In fact, if you stop to think about it, this is a good thing that favors the Browns, because Watson’s 2023 salary is almost unaffordable at $55 million. If Commissioner Goodell can help lop off $20 or $25 million via a suspension, that may help general manager Andrew Berry balance his budget. In effect, a suspension might actually save the Browns’ season and extend their Super Bowl window another year.

THE REST OF THE STORY
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If Watson is put on the CEL for next year, all that guy's thoughts go out the window
 
leebigeztx said:
Who had the 1st fully guaranteed contract in the nfl? Kirk Freaking Cousins. a 3 yr fully guaranteed deal,which at the time gave him the most of any player. Then,because it was restricted and Cousins is maybe the 17th best qb, they tacked on more fully guaranteed years. When Jimmy G and Derek Carr signed their deals, it made them the highest paid qb's in the nfl. This is the nfl and its about winning. Those owners don't have any kind of morals when it comes to winning. Jerry Jones knew about the white house, but he didn't care because they were winning superbowls. The Ravens owner had a guy who knew of a murder and he still played in the superbowl. The Giants owners were there when LT was doing everything under the sun. You think the Patriots didn't know Hernandez was a ganster? Nobody can be that naive when it comes to professional sports especially a win or nothing business like NFL. That contract is pennies to Haslam who gives tens of millions to the Volunteers and controls who is the head coach.
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You still didn’t answer the question. Also, No one has ever had this amount of allegations pending all at once especially a QB. Kirk Cousins has nothing to do with anything, does not have any allegations against him. Ray Lewis and Aaron Hernandez I don’t remember them both being given the most guaranteed money.

Also, I asked you what you would do if you were a business owner.
 
leebigeztx said:
Exactly! The government will tell you what they think is to the state. Before you get on your high horse, who funded NRG? They hid the way the stadium was financed by car rentals and all kind of other taxes. Pretty soon, Cal is going to be smiling and asking for a new stadium also, yet, the potholes will tear up your car.
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lol "high horse" ? :um:

I'm just a lowly worker bee commenting on the effed up nature of our cultural obsession with entertainers and disgusted by the mass stupidity of giving billionaires & millionaires taxpayer subsidies while our cities rot and we raise generations of uneducated brain-dead consumers.

If that's a "high horse", then yeehaw. :cowboy1:
 
Carr Bombed said:
Sadly, digging into holes is kinda his thing.. 😉
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There are so many things that we could think about as being the first organs to be developed in a human embryo, it could be the brain, the heart, something… but the anus? Yet, it’s true folks. Before anything else is developed, a little anus can be seen in a human embryo, and the second thing to be developed is the mouth, go figure!

Looks like Watson's must have been stunted at the earliest stage of his development.

1650040990762.png

Unfortunately, Watson never progressed beyond this stage.
 
Double Barrel said:
lol "high horse" ? :um:

I'm just a lowly worker bee commenting on the effed up nature of our cultural obsession with entertainers and disgusted by the mass stupidity of giving billionaires & millionaires taxpayer subsidies while our cities rot and we raise generations of uneducated brain-dead consumers.

If that's a "high horse", then yeehaw. :cowboy1:
Click to expand...

1650043591607.png
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
There are so many things that we could think about as being the first organs to be developed in a human embryo, it could be the brain, the heart, something… but the anus? Yet, it’s true folks. Before anything else is developed, a little anus can be seen in a human embryo, and the second thing to be developed is the mouth, go figure!

Looks like Watson's must have been stunted at the earliest stage of his development.

View attachment 10033

Unfortunately, Watson never progressed beyond this stage.
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Lol, looks like that third drawing is showing finger development and an anus combined
 
Thorn said:
View attachment 10034
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Not arguing the point but what about all the property and sales taxes generated at NRG Including various trade shows, the Rodeo, jobs etc. The city could never field a team. And are the taxes only coming from a specialized business zone As opposed to county wide. Out of curiosity are you being taxed? How? I don’t live in Houston but is there a county wide sales tax bump in effect? Not sure how else folks are getting taxed.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
There are so many things that we could think about as being the first organs to be developed in a human embryo, it could be the brain, the heart, something… but the anus? Yet, it’s true folks. Before anything else is developed, a little anus can be seen in a human embryo, and the second thing to be developed is the mouth, go figure!

Looks like Watson's must have been stunted at the earliest stage of his development.

View attachment 10033

Unfortunately, Watson never progressed beyond this stage.
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Reminds me of a joke I heard about which is the most important body part
 
NFL Quarterback Power Rankings: Deshaun Watson gives Browns a fighting chance

by Greg Newland13 hours ago Follow @gnewland52




For the first time in 23 seasons, the Cleveland Browns have a franchise-caliber NFL quarterback. Unfortunately, the AFC North is loaded with talent as well.

The Cleveland Browns made one of the biggest trades in NFL history by trading for Deshaun Watson. Not only did they give up six draft picks, but they also gave him a five-year, $230 million contract where every single dollar was guaranteed.

Recent history has shown that even with an elite roster, you can’t compete for a Super Bowl without an elite quarterback. The Haslams have given Andrew Berry the green light to go all in. Let’s hope it pays off.

This list is sure to change with the upcoming NFL draft, but here is where each team ranks with their starting quarterback with most of the free-agent shifting in the past.

NFL Quarterback Rankings:
NFL quarterback No. 32 – Davis Mills, Houston Texans


At this point, I’m not sold that the Houston Texans will start the season with Davis Mills as their quarterback, but if the season were to start today, that would be the case. It’s tough to be ranked the worst starting quarterback in the NFL, but there are only 32 of these guys in the entire world.
THE REST OF THE STORY

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And he ranks Watson #6.

The author of the DAWGPOUNDDAILY.COM lists himself as a "journalist." Yet he only has a business degree. This Browns fan is all in Watson. I guess it looks better to try to destroy Mills.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
NFL Quarterback Power Rankings: Deshaun Watson gives Browns a fighting chance

by Greg Newland13 hours ago Follow @gnewland52




For the first time in 23 seasons, the Cleveland Browns have a franchise-caliber NFL quarterback. Unfortunately, the AFC North is loaded with talent as well.

The Cleveland Browns made one of the biggest trades in NFL history by trading for Deshaun Watson. Not only did they give up six draft picks, but they also gave him a five-year, $230 million contract where every single dollar was guaranteed.

Recent history has shown that even with an elite roster, you can’t compete for a Super Bowl without an elite quarterback. The Haslams have given Andrew Berry the green light to go all in. Let’s hope it pays off.

This list is sure to change with the upcoming NFL draft, but here is where each team ranks with their starting quarterback with most of the free-agent shifting in the past.

NFL Quarterback Rankings:
NFL quarterback No. 32 – Davis Mills, Houston Texans


At this point, I’m not sold that the Houston Texans will start the season with Davis Mills as their quarterback, but if the season were to start today, that would be the case. It’s tough to be ranked the worst starting quarterback in the NFL, but there are only 32 of these guys in the entire world.
THE REST OF THE STORY

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And he ranks Watson #6.

The author of the DAWGPOUNDDAILY.COM lists himself as a "journalist." Yet he only has a business degree. This Browns fan is all in Watson. I guess it looks better to try to destroy Mills.
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Meh, fansided is basically just a fast way for someone to create a sports focused webpage, anyone here could do it. I give it as much credit and expertise as I do any random poster on a sports forum. I’m actually surprised he only ranked Watson at 6th, guess he couldn’t go top 5 and still pretend to have any neutrality.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
You still didn’t answer the question. Also, No one has ever had this amount of allegations pending all at once especially a QB. Kirk Cousins has nothing to do with anything, does not have any allegations against him. Ray Lewis and Aaron Hernandez I don’t remember them both being given the most guaranteed money.

Also, I asked you what you would do if you were a business owner.
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I am a business owner, but what you're trying to compare isn't even in the same galaxy. Show me a business where the talent is .0000001 of the world population. Professional sports,especially foorball doesn't care about morals or ethics,its about winning games. When its all about winning games, owners are going to do whatever possible to acquire the talent to do such a thing. The money doesn't even matter in this discussion, I don't know why you keep bringing it up. If any of those other teams would have won the bid and he was only making 35m this year, would it make you feel better? Probably not.
 
I dug up this ESPN article which follows the pathetic history of the Browns' consistent failures soley due to their owners not being able to keep their hands off of those things they know nothing about..........it is very long and very detailed and well-documented and well worth reading in its entirety. It demonstrates that Haslam and his wife have always wanted to "touch" everything Browns............and every time they "touched" the Browns, they ignored those they had hired to advise them.........nothing turned to gold........only to $h*t. Year after year, every decision they made has found a way to bury the Browns deeper into oblivion. If the Watson decision follows the universal pathetic Haslam pattern in any way, the Browns/Haslam/Watson story when looked back upon in just a couple of years is destined to "Play It Again, Sam"..........

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The clash of the Cleveland Browns: How Hue Jackson, Jimmy Haslam and Baker Mayfield collided
Jan 24, 2019
i

Seth Wickersham ESPN Senior Writer
 
Disgusted Browns Fans Not Loving Deshaun Watson As Their Quarterback
"This is a sad day for Cleveland when all that matters is to win at any cost," says one Browns fan who responded to a Cleveland Patch poll.

Posted Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 10:01 pm ET|Updated Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 10:11 pm ET


Every move the Cleveland Browns have made lately is intended to pull together the best football talent money can buy. Even Joe Thomas — possibly the only future Hall of Famer the Browns produced in the last 20 years — says the roster taking shape "is the best collection of players the Browns have had since they've been back, by far. ...

"The Browns are a Super Bowl contender."

Yet many Browns fans are dismayed, even disgusted. A considerable number of fans tell Cleveland Patch the acquisition of Deshaun Watson, still dogged by claims of bizarrely inappropriate behavior with two dozen massage therapists, and the treatment of Baker Mayfield, regardless of his faults, have soured them on this team.

In our unscientific survey of more than 2,000 Browns fans across Greater Cleveland, almost half claim the Browns lost them as a fan. (This makes for one distressing doughnut chart.)

One out of three fans say they disagree with all the recent personnel moves the Browns have made. The most significant move, obviously, is the trade of first round draft picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, plus a third round pick and a two fourth rounders, for Watson as quarterback to replace the soon-to-be-jettisoned Mayfield.

Find out what's happening in Clevelandwith free, real-time updates from Patch.

Let's go!

Many — about one out of four — say they will watch the games but without the zeal for all things orange and brown that makes this Brownstown USA.

How has your opinion of the Cleveland Browns changed since the signing of Deshaun Watson as quarterback?

clevelandbrowns_survey1.png

Think about 1999, after four years of scar tissue built up on our football-loving hearts. Remember the irrational exuberance of the Browns fans who thought the newly minted '99 expansion team might win a handful of games? Some, drunk on hope and seeing the world through orange-colored glasses, even believed they'd post a winning record. (Alas, that cellar-dwelling roster finished with two miraculous victories.)

Think about the last two decades of crummy football. Despite this, we cling to hope in Believeland.
Given the ardor of the Cleveland Browns fanbase, it says a lot that the character questions attached to the front office and their new quarterback prompt 47.6% of survey respondents to say the Browns have "lost them as a fan."

Are we ready to believe a winning team ultimately begets a happy fanbase regardless of how the team gets there? The Haslams have made that bet for us.

We'll see if all is forgotten when the season begins.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Dang this can get ugly for the Texans as well.
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He was actually reading from a piece reported by Cleveland.com 2 days ago (posted in the Sexual Assault thread). This may not be directed towards the Texans, but may be setting the table for confirming that Burney (Watson's marketing agent) lied in his deposition that the Texans gave Watson NDAs for massages............while Watson under oath stated that the Texans knew nothing about the massages. If Burney, and thus Mulugehta and Athletes First, knew about any of the allegations (beginning in Jan 2021) and set up the hotel rooms..........they may become the real targets.
 
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I believe that its easy to talk about no longer being a fan, but if they go anywhere close to 17-0 and/or a run in the playoffs amnesia will set in quickly in the land of Cleve.
 
KA4Texan said:
I believe that its easy to talk about no longer being a fan, but if they go anywhere close to 17-0 and/or a run in the playoffs amnesia will set in quickly in the land of Cleve.
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More realistically, if Watson doesn't lead Cleveland to achieve those goals, the Browns FO will only pray that their fans develop amnesia about what they gave up in return for...........
 
The Browns keep kicking the can down the road.

*******************************************************************

From BrownsWire:

The Browns restructured newly acquired WR Amari Cooper’s contract:

While the restructured deal clears cap space for this year, it will be added to future seasons. His cap hit the next two years likely jumps around $4 million with the voided years costing the team almost $8 million in 2027 whether he is on the roster or not.
Cleveland should have enough space once these moves are official to receive Watson in a trade. They will then save about $25 million in cap space when he signs his new deal and almost $19 million if/when Mayfield is traded.
 
I thought Watsons hit to them would be minimal his first season with them anyway to avoid potential penalties from the NFL.

Did something change or is it an understatement to say I don't understand the cap stuff?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
It will definitely soften the cap hit this season. But look out for future cap.
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Yeah, thats what I thought, so buying cap room now seems a bit odd to me.

Just wanted to make sure my confusion was justified.

Guess they really have gone all in this season.

If it doesn't work out the Browns have very effectively O'Briened themselves.

Now for the Browns fans sake, it might feel a bit wrong to root against the Browns this year.

Thankfully my short term memory isn't what it used to be so I'll get over it quickly.
 
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KA4Texan said:
Yeah, thats what I thought, so buying cap room now seems a bit odd to me.

Just wanted to make sure my confusion was justified.

Guess they really have gone all in this season.

If it doesn't work out the Browns have very effectively O'Briened themselves.

Now for the Browns fans sake, it might feel a bit wrong to root against the Browns this year.

Thankfully my short term memory isn't what it used to be so I'll get over it quickly.
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Not really. The salary cap isn't real. We know by looking at the Rams who continue to sign quality players despite having 35m of dead cap. Its just manipulation. When you have young, high end players, you just go to them and convert their salary to signing bonus and it reduces their cap number. The Chiefs had like 50k of cap room, yet they found money to sign Reid.
 
leebigeztx said:
Not really. The salary cap isn't real. We know by looking at the Rams who continue to sign quality players despite having 35m of dead cap. Its just manipulation. When you have young, high end players, you just go to them and convert their salary to signing bonus and it reduces their cap number. The Chiefs had like 50k of cap room, yet they found money to sign Reid.
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Plus the Chiefs/Browns/Rams etc... are betting with the gamblers and Amazon etc... that the cap is going to go way up.
 
steelbtexan said:
Plus the Chiefs/Browns/Rams etc... are betting with the gamblers and Amazon etc... that the cap is going to go way up.
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I mean that's common knowledge. The cap was suppressed due to covid,but with Amazon coming in, its going to be a big jump in the cap. The cap has never been real despite it being a hard cap. People freak out, but its there as a soft boundary to inspire parity. True parity is when you have a franchise caliber qb and know how to build around them. If Pittsburgh and Green Bay didn't have the signal callers they had, they wouldn't be able to win as much as they did.
 
leebigeztx said:
I mean that's common knowledge. The cap was suppressed due to covid,but with Amazon coming in, its going to be a big jump in the cap. The cap has never been real despite it being a hard cap. People freak out, but its there as a soft boundary to inspire parity. True parity is when you have a franchise caliber qb and know how to build around them. If Pittsburgh and Green Bay didn't have the signal callers they had, they wouldn't be able to win as much as they did.
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Agreed, but the high paid QB's aren't winning championships.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, but the high paid QB's aren't winning championships.
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I know you disagree, but I view franchise qbs as giving you a chance every year by making the playoffs. Teams mismanage the high paid qbs with their drafting. A high paid qb is a eraser, but you still need to draft well and make strategic signings which circles back to your pro personel guys. You can't surround a franchise qb with elite free agents every year, but your qb has you in the hunt every year. Them dudes don't grow on trees so you can't discard them like rbs
 
leebigeztx said:
I know you disagree, but I view franchise qbs as giving you a chance every year by making the playoffs. Teams mismanage the high paid qbs with their drafting. A high paid qb is a eraser, but you still need to draft well and make strategic signings which circles back to your pro personel guys. You can't surround a franchise qb with elite free agents every year, but your qb has you in the hunt every year. Them dudes don't grow on trees so you can't discard them like rbs
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Problem is being in the hunt but not a serious contender actually hurts you in the draft. It’s one of the issues Texans had, good enough to get out of the best drafting spots but not good enough to be a real threat. Yes guys can be found in later rounds and that’s where you can build the backbone but if you need that one difference maker, like a Hopkins, Watt or Tunsil, you are going to be hard pressed to find them in the 20s.
 
maverick512000 said:
Problem is being in the hunt but not a serious contender actually hurts you in the draft. It’s one of the issues Texans had, good enough to get out of the best drafting spots but not good enough to be a real threat. Yes guys can be found in later rounds and that’s where you can build the backbone but if you need that one difference maker, like a Hopkins, Watt or Tunsil, you are going to be hard pressed to find them in the 20s.
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The Steelers and others managed to find them. Can you imagine the Steelers without Troy or Ravens without Reed who were both drafted in the 20s?
 
maverick512000 said:
Problem is being in the hunt but not a serious contender actually hurts you in the draft. It’s one of the issues Texans had, good enough to get out of the best drafting spots but not good enough to be a real threat. Yes guys can be found in later rounds and that’s where you can build the backbone but if you need that one difference maker, like a Hopkins, Watt or Tunsil, you are going to be hard pressed to find them in the 20s.
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We did get Hopkins with the 27th pick..
 
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