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What Grade Did Caserio Get on Watson Trade?

We really don’t know how things went down, how much the contract negotiations were a part of it.

if I’m Cleveland & I’m fully guaranteeing $230M, there ain’t no more meat on them bones.
The problem with how things went down was that the teams involved in the deal weren't motivated to sweeten the deal for us (the Texans) because they already met our threshold to do business. They were only motivated to sweeten the deal for DW to get him to choose them. That's why Cleveland ponied up so much money. But it didn't help us a lick. The bidding war (to the extent that there was one) only benefited DW.
 
lol And we're talking about the Browns here! It's not like their owner is heads and shoulders above the McNairs.

Just knowing that Watson gets to face the Steelers and Ravens defenses four times a year, all in northern outdoor stadiums, on a team that will be hobbled by his cap number and unable to draft in the 1st round for years to come, I'm looking forward to the eventual and inevitable Watson meltdown when they don't let him pick their new GM and HC.

Good for them. Glad it's not us any more.

Brutal my man, B.R.U.T.A.L.! :clap:
 
You really think Atlanta would give up Pitts and suck even worse, Watson or no?
If we traded with Atlanta we would have had the #8 and 2 2nds THIS YEAR. To repeat Texian, we only got ONE ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICK THIS YEAR. Draft picks with slots you know THIS YEAR are more valuable than those in the future. Why can’t you get that. Texian has been dead on accurate about this team, ownership and GMs for more than a decade. Let me tell you something, I have more faith if he was GM in getting us a better deal. The Texans are the epitome of amateur hour clowns.
 
Denver gave up
#9 = 1350
#40 = 500
1st RD 2023, equivalent to 2nd RD = 380
2nd RD 2023, equivalent to 3rd RD = 180
Plus 3 players
Drew Lock, 2nd RD, pick 42
Noah Fant, 1st RD, pick 20
Shelby Harris, 7th RD, pick 237 = 600

Total Russell Wilson = 3010 vs DeShaun Watson = 1756

Now here is the real kicker, RUSSELL WILSON IS 33 YEARS OLD. HE'S 7 YEARS OLDER THAN DESHAUN WATSON. USING 38 AS THE BENCHMARK FOR QBs TO RETIRE. DESHAUN WATSON WILL PLAY TWICE AS LONG AS RUSSELL WILSON. 3000 POINTS FOR A 33 YR OLD TOP 5 QB IS FAIR VALUE.

No other way to say this say this; NICK CASERIO AND CAL McNAIR GOT HOSED! RATHER BADLY!

While you were typing that text in a bold font to emphasize the basis of your confirmation bias, you forgot to add other objective facets of the trade, like 22 civil suits and Watson's upcoming suspension.

I'm sure it was just an oversight.

Honestly, unless you have another trade for comparison with parameters like those involved in the Watson trade, you're comparing apples to something that clearly isn't apples.
 
While you were typing that text in a bold font to emphasize the basis of your confirmation bias, you forgot to add other objective facets of the trade, like 22 civil suits and Watson's upcoming suspension.

I'm sure it was just an oversight.

Honestly, unless you have another trade for comparison with parameters like those involved in the Watson trade, you're comparing apples to something that clearly isn't apples.
You forgot he hasnt seen the field in a season on top of that.
 
Do you think you can get 2.42 for Drew Lock right now? I doubt it.

But altogether the three are worth 600, I think that’s about right.

without those three (& Noah Fant is the only real value there) they still scored 2410 points

I don’t know if they got hosed. Even at 33 I’d take Wilson over Watson.

1,300 points different…. nah, you’re right. Hosed.

the draft value points chart is outdated and inherently flawed. Not surprised he’s using it tho. He was gonna pan the trade no matter what we got.
 
If we traded with Atlanta we would have had the #8 and 2 2nds THIS YEAR. To repeat Texian, we only got ONE ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICK THIS YEAR. Draft picks with slots you know THIS YEAR are more valuable than those in the future. Why can’t you get that. Texian has been dead on accurate about this team, ownership and GMs for more than a decade. Let me tell you something, I have more faith if he was GM in getting us a better deal. The Texans are the epitome of amateur hour clowns.

You & him sound dumb as hell. the whole premise that picks in the future are less valuable than picks right now is stupid on its face simply b/c it assumes only positive things about the future of the other team & only 1 thing can be done with the picks recieved by the other team; which is to select the players at whatever slot the picks wind up in. That is obviously FAR from the case.

noone, not even the indomitable uncle Rico of the Texanstalk message board knows what will happen in the next 2 years with the Browns, Watson or the draft.
 
If we traded with Atlanta we would have had the #8 and 2 2nds THIS YEAR. To repeat Texian, we only got ONE ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICK THIS YEAR. Draft picks with slots you know THIS YEAR are more valuable than those in the future. Why can’t you get that. Texian has been dead on accurate about this team, ownership and GMs for more than a decade. Let me tell you something, I have more faith if he was GM in getting us a better deal. The Texans are the epitome of amateur hour clowns.

Huh, didn’t know you could have two accounts on this board.
 
the draft value points chart is outdated and inherently flawed. Not surprised he’s using it tho. He was gonna pan the trade no matter what we got.
But he’s using the same chart for both trades.

Are you telling me two 1s two 2s & three players (at least one that will start on any team) is not better than three 1s, a future 3rd & future pick swap?

come 2024 when Houston is still making those picks I’m sure it will look like Houston got the better deal. But if all the picks & players were cashed in for 2022 picks, Seattle got the better deal.

It can be spun either way, depending on how you want to look at it. His way is no more wrong than yours.

really not worth arguing with him about it
 
Denver gave up
#9 = 1350
#40 = 500
1st RD 2023, equivalent to 2nd RD = 380
2nd RD 2023, equivalent to 3rd RD = 180
Plus 3 players
Drew Lock, 2nd RD, pick 42
Noah Fant, 1st RD, pick 20
Shelby Harris, 7th RD, pick 237 = 600

Total Russell Wilson = 3010 vs DeShaun Watson = 1756

Now here is the real kicker, RUSSELL WILSON IS 33 YEARS OLD. HE'S 7 YEARS OLDER THAN DESHAUN WATSON. USING 38 AS THE BENCHMARK FOR QBs TO RETIRE. DESHAUN WATSON WILL PLAY TWICE AS LONG AS RUSSELL WILSON. 3000 POINTS FOR A 33 YR OLD TOP 5 QB IS FAIR VALUE.

No other way to say this say this; NICK CASERIO AND CAL McNAIR GOT HOSED! RATHER BADLY!


Wilson went to the Super Bowl and won one. Lost one on a bad time play. Also has superior character. He said he has 10 years to play.

Watson won pleading the fifth to criminal charges. Has inferior character. He may be younger, but he almost went to jail last a week ago which would have ended his career.
 
You & him sound dumb as hell. the whole premise that picks in the future are less valuable than picks right now is stupid on its face simply b/c it assumes only positive things about the future of the other team
Ok… I see what you are saying now. I think. Yes, draft picks in 2024 are more valuable than no draft picks in 2024.

The trade value chart tries to convert future picks into 2022 currency. Would you give me your 2022 1st round pick for my 2024 1st round pick?

Of course not. Today’s 1st round pick has more value than 2024’s 1st round pick, today. Today’s 1st round pick may have less value (Mitch Trubisky) than 2024’s in 2024.

It might be worth more (DeShaun Watson)
 
Wilson went to the Super Bowl and won one. Lost one on a bad time play. Also has superior character. He said he has 10 years to play.

Watson won pleading the fifth to criminal charges. Has inferior character. He may be younger, but he almost went to jail last a week ago which would have ended his career.
Yet one of them has a $230M contract & the other doesn’t
 
lol Denial for a different perspective. Check your ego, bud.

I don't care how much talent Cleveland has. They are still the Browns, just as cursed as Houston football. Maybe even more cursed.

The Steelers are a winning organization. They'll be back sooner than later. Players want to play there. Same for the Ravens. These franchises regularly rebuild and go deep, often to Super Bowls. And the division still has Cincy, who is fresh of a Super Bowl.

And I'm still not convinced that Watson is a cold weather QB.

I'm not going to cry over losing a quitter, regardless of how talented he is. The truth is he'll quit on Cleveland as soon as his diva ass doesn't get his way.
Aside from the legal fees Watson paid to Rusty and the hush money he’ll pay the women, Watson came out unscathed and smelling like a highly paid rose. No lesson learned, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he goes back to seeking rub and tugs in Cleveland. This dude may be business savvy but his hubris is gonna catch up to him. He’s no longer our player, so long. When things get bad, let’s see Watson pushes thru it or weasels his way out in Cleveland.
 
If we traded with Atlanta we would have had the #8 and 2 2nds THIS YEAR. To repeat Texian, we only got ONE ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICK THIS YEAR. Draft picks with slots you know THIS YEAR are more valuable than those in the future. Why can’t you get that. Texian has been dead on accurate about this team, ownership and GMs for more than a decade. Let me tell you something, I have more faith if he was GM in getting us a better deal. The Texans are the epitome of amateur hour clowns.

Huh, didn’t know you could have two accounts on this board.

Texian would have negotiated a better deal. This was amateur hour GM work

Found [mention]Texian [/mention] ‘s burner account!


It’s now been confirmed.
 
But he’s using the same chart for both trades.

Are you telling me two 1s two 2s & three players (at least one that will start on any team) is not better than three 1s, a future 3rd & future pick swap?

come 2024 when Houston is still making those picks I’m sure it will look like Houston got the better deal. But if all the picks & players were cashed in for 2022 picks, Seattle got the better deal.

It can be spun either way, depending on how you want to look at it. His way is no more wrong than yours.

really not worth arguing with him about it

thats just it. No one knows what The landscape of the NFL will look like 2 years from now & it can’t be predicted…so you really can’t give a thumbs up or down on a trade until all the pieces have been nabbed…especially for the team receiving the picks where you’ll be selecting and making moves off of the picks for literally years to come.

On the other side of the coin the team receiving the player, they’ve made a statement by giving up that much for him. At a minimum They’re saying SB or bust in the next 4-5 years. & if that or something greater doesn’t happen, then they’ve automatically lost the trade.

The Browns literally JUST did something like this with the OBJ trade…& it didn’t work out for them.
 
Ok… I see what you are saying now. I think. Yes, draft picks in 2024 are more valuable than no draft picks in 2024.

The trade value chart tries to convert future picks into 2022 currency. Would you give me your 2022 1st round pick for my 2024 1st round pick?

Of course not. Today’s 1st round pick has more value than 2024’s 1st round pick, today. Today’s 1st round pick may have less value (Mitch Trubisky) than 2024’s in 2024.

It might be worth more (DeShaun Watson)

A pick on this years draft only has more value if you’re a team who feels You’re a player or 2 away from a SB and you know exactly where you’ll be using it. obviously that’s not us. So If you don’t meet that specific criteria, it holds no more value than a pick in the same spot the next year. I could argue it holds less to be honest.
 
Nick Caserio played scared. Caserio went into this with his lowball offer because he was afraid the Browns would balk at anything more. Nick didn't want to scare them off. Then he didn't have balls to negotiate it higher. No wonder the Browns were all too happy to meet his asking price.
 
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Paging @steelbtexan


He must be ecstatic. Congrats man.

That guy is probably visiting women’s shelters letting them know we got rid of one of the worst.

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Nick Caserio played scared. Caserio went into this with his lowball offer because he was afraid the Browns would balk at anything more and Nick didn't want to scare them off. No wonder the Browns were all too happy to meet his asking price.


If Goodell suspends dw for half a season will you like the trade more?
 
If we traded with Atlanta we would have had the #8 and 2 2nds THIS YEAR. To repeat Texian, we only got ONE ADDITIONAL DRAFT PICK THIS YEAR. Draft picks with slots you know THIS YEAR are more valuable than those in the future. Why can’t you get that. Texian has been dead on accurate about this team, ownership and GMs for more than a decade. Let me tell you something, I have more faith if he was GM in getting us a better deal. The Texans are the epitome of amateur hour clowns.
And why can't you accept the fact that there was a NTC dictating the terms of trade which Atlanta rejected. Point two, we don't know that we could have gotten #8 and 2 2nds. That was only the speculation on social media. You, and others, are in a fantasy of your own making.
 
za
You & him sound dumb as hell. the whole premise that picks in the future are less valuable than picks right now is stupid on its face simply b/c it assumes only positive things about the future of the other team & only 1 thing can be done with the picks recieved by the other team; which is to select the players at whatever slot the picks wind up in. That is obviously FAR from the case.

noone, not even the indomitable uncle Rico of the Texanstalk message board knows what will happen in the next 2 years with the Browns, Watson or the draft.

Let me ask you a question and see how smart you are - if you have $1 in your pocket today is it worth more or less than a $1 in your pocket next year? If you can answer that question correctly, you’ll know why Texian and I are right.
 
I wonder what happened with Atlanta? Maybe they find a trade partner for matt ryan?


I don't think they wanted anything to do with giving dw that kinda contract. I think Ryan will be fine there.

I think baker goes to indy.
 
thats just it. No one knows what The landscape of the NFL will look like 2 years from now & it can’t be predicted…so you really can’t give a thumbs up or down on a trade until all the pieces have been nabbed
Well you’re throwing a bunch of variables in there. Do you use that future pick or trade it?

would the success/failure of that trade affect the success/failure of this trade?

the whole idea is to reduce it down to an objective “currency” whatever Nick does with those picks shouldn’t matter as far as grading this trade. Whatever Cleveland does from here shouldn’t matter.

Nick got what he was asking for & that should be that. Doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks.

if the Browns go on to win the Super Bowl doesn’t mean Nick got hosed.

We can compare it to the Russell Wilson trade. That was like last week. Would I rather have got what Seattle got from Denver or what Houston got from Cleveland?

I know my answer
 
If Goodell suspends dw for half a season will you like the trade more?
That doesn't figure in because just as he may be suspended, he may not. It didn't bother the Browns, it doesn't bother me. To answer directly, no because for me the suspension had no barring on the trade whatsoever.
 
Huh, didn’t know you could have two accounts on this board.
Sorry not all of us are Kool Aid drinkers. The Texans DON’T deserve the benefit of the doubt or should legitimately give anyone who follows football the feeling they know what they’re doing. The have made the worst trades in recent memory and hired a clown of a coach last year who made the dumbest mistakes in game management that I have seen in any level of football. Sorry that Texian and I are not buying the bullshit they’re selling. This team has been bottom of the barrel in terms of accomplishments and meaningful wins in it’s history and ownership has shown no clue how to build a winner. This team is an embarrassment to our city and is a laughingstock in every NFL city - yes including Jax, Detroit and most especially today, Cleveland.
 
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And none of that is on Caserio.
He can’t force a guy with a NTC to go where he wants him and ATL didn’t do what your suggesting. You live in an alternate reality and then complain about it.

You are whining to whine.
No you do. Nick easily could’ve controlled this situation. Watson had the right to nix a trade somewhere he didn’t want to go. that NTC didn’t give him the right to know the details and parameters of the trade. Nick could of told him to give him a list of teams he would be willing to go to. From that point on Watson and his agent should’ve had no input.

Nick could’ve played hard ball and said look we’re not required to trade you. ill Shut you down until the end of your contract if you don’t like it. Pick the teams you would go to and shut your mouth While we hammer out a deal with one of them. But no he’s a glorified file clerk so he caved to watsons agent and gave him all the control. This BS that Watson held all the cards is ignorant.

Watson signed what 5 year contract? he was obligated to honor that contract or he was breaching it. He already missed a whole year. You think if Nick had held his feet to the fire and told him sit out the next 4 years for all I care. It’s your career.

Nick gets an AR for a grade. He didn’t stand his ground and he let Watson weaponize his NTC. Pathetic! He just let the first franchise (young) QB in the history of or franchise go for far less than he should of gotten. Maybe you people are just so happy he’s gone you’ve accepted this outcome. Doesn’t make it a good one.
 
za


Let me ask you a question and see how smart you are - if you have $1 in your pocket today is it worth more or less than a $1 in your pocket next year? If you can answer that question correctly, you’ll know why Texian and I are right.

Anyone who knows the time value of money knows it’s Less obviously…but this isn’t currency sir. These are nfl players and draft picks…both of which only APPRECIATE in value as time goes on & they get better in the league and/or in the case of the draft picks, as they approach their usage.

Try again, mr. not-so-smart guy.
 
A pick on this years draft only has more value if you’re a team who feels You’re a player or 2 away from a SB and you know exactly where you’ll be using it. obviously that’s not us. So If you don’t meet that specific criteria, it holds no more value than a pick in the same spot the next year. I could argue it holds less to be honest.
Let’s say you’re the Houston Texans I want to give you a 1st round pick for David Johnson. Would you prefer I pay with a 2022 pick or a 2024 pick?
 
The idea of getting young players wasn’t happening.
Even if a team would give up a known commodity that was still on his rookie contract, that would have taken away from the 3 1’s and teams would rather keep a known commodity for an unknown 1st rounder.
ATL offered up players but HOU wasn’t getting all those picks.
Dude stop acting like you know what teams would or did offer. You don’t know ****.
 
And why can't you accept the fact that there was a NTC dictating the terms of trade which Atlanta rejected. Point two, we don't know that we could have gotten #8 and 2 2nds. That was only the speculation on social media. You, and others, are in a fantasy of your own making.
Sorry, we have actual trade comps to evaluate - namely Russell Wilson and what the Seahawks got. They have John Schneider and an organization that is respected and one of the best in NFL with a great head coach. We are a team that has Preacher Jack, a GM with no experience who wants wear a headset and meddle with the coaching because he is a narcissist and a team that wanted McCown and DID HIRE clown Culley. Yeah, I am confident that the Seahawks if they were in the position of the Texans could have gotten better value.
 
Do you think you can get 2.42 for Drew Lock right now? I doubt it.

But altogether the three are worth 600, I think that’s about right.

without those three (& Noah Fant is the only real value there) they still scored 2410 points

I don’t know if they got hosed. Even at 33 I’d take Wilson over Watson.

1,300 points different…. nah, you’re right. Hosed.
What the **** are you talking about? Lol...I think the 600 is better than the 4200 and without Cashman the 2400 is better than the 6400 with the 2300
 
Well you’re throwing a bunch of variables in there. Do you use that future pick or trade it?

would the success/failure of that trade affect the success/failure of this trade?

the whole idea is to reduce it down to an objective “currency” whatever Nick does with those picks shouldn’t matter as far as grading this trade. Whatever Cleveland does from here shouldn’t matter.

Nick got what he was asking for & that should be that. Doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks.

if the Browns go on to win the Super Bowl doesn’t mean Nick got hosed.

We can compare it to the Russell Wilson trade. That was like last week. Would I rather have got what Seattle got from Denver or what Houston got from Cleveland?

I know my answer

& that’s my point. the draft value chart system assumes only 1 possible outcome/variable & that is selecting players with those picks. That in and of itself cuts a significant portion of the overall value of those future 1’s out of the equation.
 
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it has a bearing on his play time and thusly his value. It potentially impacts the position of all the '23 picks. I'd say it's pretty substantial actually.

To each his own.
What if he doesn't get suspended? What if he gets a Rothlesberger 4 game suspension, how do you value that? You're dealing with an unknown that you can't put a value on. Watson's Browns career is roughly 200 games, he may get suspended 4 games, how are you going to negotiate that? Demand a 7th RD in 2024 for the suspension?
 
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