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DW4 Traded to Cleveland

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texanprincess said:
And still managed to trade for Miller in season, add Weddle/OBJ etc... When owners talk cap they've probably hired incompetent people. As the Rams have proven owners can get the players they want despite the cap if they're in it to win a championship.

Texans ownership has failed on both of these accounts, because they've never been serious about bringing a championship to this city.
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Exactly and they still added talent. They also paid that monster aka A. Donald a fat contract. Now they don’t have much when it comes to draft capital. But they did what’s necessary to help them win the Super Bowl.
Now Copper is due for a healthy contract extension.
 
texanprincess said:
And still managed to trade for Miller in season, add Weddle/OBJ etc... When owners talk cap they've probably hired incompetent people. As the Rams have proven owners can get the players they want despite the cap if they're in it to win a championship.

Texans ownership has failed on both of these accounts, because they've never been serious about bringing a championship to this city.
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Trouble with going all in cap wise is you limit yourself to a 1-2 year window before a team gets dismantled. Lots of teams spend big and miss. Some teams look for sustained success through good (or stupid) drafts and miss.

Your citing an exception rather than the typical outcome.
 
leebigeztx said:
If you have a top 5-10 qb, he's going to eat up a large chunk of your cap period. If you have elite players, they're going to eat up huge chunks period. You have to pay top talent when its time to get paid. You cant spread out paying people if they perform way beyond their rookie deal. Matt Stafford was always among the highest paid qbs in the nfl. Then a year before reup, he forced his way out a the Rams got him on the back end of his deal.
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Or you do the thing Belichick does, trade away those guys a year early and draft younger cheaper talent.

The Packers have also followed this model.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Exactly and they still added talent. They also paid that monster aka A. Donald a fat contract. Now they don’t have much when it comes to draft capital. But they did what’s necessary to help them win the Super Bowl.
Now Copper is due for a healthy contract extension.
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McVay, Snead will figure out a way to get an extension done for Kupp. I would guess guys like Whitworth, Corbett, Woods,Floyd,OBJ will be gone unless they take cuts.
 
Lucky said:
26% ($49.4 million) of the Rams cap space in 2021 was dead money. Amazing.
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This is how you know when owners start talking about the cap they're blowing smoke up you're but.

If the Texans want to create 30 more mil in cap space next year they can by trading Tunsil and cutting Cannon, Murray, Fairbarin, Pierre-Louis, Mitchell, Jenkins. Would any of these guys besides Tunsil really be missed and could they be replaced by even cheaper FA's like this years FA tightend or guard class plus draft picks
 
texanprincess said:
This is how you know when owners start talking about the cap they're blowing smoke up you're but.

If the Texans want to create 30 more mil in cap space next year they can by trading Tunsil and cutting Cannon, Murray, Fairbarin, Pierre-Louis, Mitchell, Jenkins. Would any of these guys besides Tunsil really be missed and could they be replaced by even cheaper FA's like this years FA tightend or guard class plus draft picks
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I'm not opposed to spending and I won't argue the Texans are cheap. I do think there needs to be a core foundation in place before we do spend big. We don't have that.

Remember, when it comes to free agency, players have a say. If they don't want to sign here we're still f'ed no matter how much we're ready to spend.
 
powda said:
I'm not opposed to spending and I won't argue the Texans are cheap. I do think there needs to be a core foundation in place before we do spend big. We don't have that.

Remember, when it comes to free agency, players have a say. If they don't want to sign here we're still f'ed no matter how much we're ready to spend.
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Gotta rebuild the team and they will come. It's going to take a couple of years. Players generally go where they money is. D.J. Reader
 
SnakeEyes said:
This part of what Doc posted is proof that the Texans could very easily terminate his deal. Read:

if Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect
or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract.

So I assume that the Texans are only keeping him is for something in return.
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From my 2014 post:

An NFL spokesman noted in an email to The Associated Press that "the [B said:
personal conduct[/B] policy and its predecessors have been in place since 1997. They have never been the subject of collective bargaining and the union has never before claimed that they should be. The union knows this, which is why it has made no proposals on the personal conduct policy."
Goodell announced in August a stiffer penalty for players involved with domestic violence after originally suspending Rice for two games for punching his then-fiancee in a casino elevator. Goodell acknowledged the punishment was too lenient. The guideline now calls for a six-game suspension for a first offense.
"We remain committed to discussing these issues with the league and the NFL owners," the union memo said, "and will continue to call on them to recognize collective bargaining as the best and only solution to the issues of prevention, education, due process and discipline."






"badboy, post: 2417068, member: 10559"]
entire article here http://start.toshiba.com/news/read/..._wants_change_on_personal_conduct_policy-ap-2
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Focus was on Ray Rice and other abuse issues.
 
Lucky said:
And compete with the NFL? Where will they play? The NFL has the publicly funded mega stadiums locked up in long term leases in the 30 cities they play in. What network will televise the games? The NFL has long term contracts with every major TV network. "Anyone can still start up their own 'league" is such a pollyannish comment.
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what does this have to do with Watson trade rumors? Can we get back to issue?
 
SnakeEyes said:
This part of what Doc posted is proof that the Texans could very easily terminate his deal. Read:

if Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect
or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract.

So I assume that the Texans are only keeping him is for something in return.
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Something to think about if this mess lingers well into the 2022 season..............The Texans could potentially threaten force, excuse me, leverage Watson into doing what the team would want him to do [if he is not donning an orange jump suit] by waiting until after the trade deadline..............when, even though he is a veteran with fully accrued seasons (as opposed to being an unrestricted FA if released before the deadline), he could be released and placed on waivers...........having to accept a pot luck, probably undersireable destination........something that would not work well into Watson's plans.
 
powda said:
Trouble with going all in cap wise is you limit yourself to a 1-2 year window before a team gets dismantled. Lots of teams spend big and miss. Some teams look for sustained success through good (or stupid) drafts and miss.

Your citing an exception rather than the typical outcome.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, the cap can be managed. You just have to draft well in rounds 3-7. The Rams have done a good job of this. Also your stars have to stay healthy. The Texans had a bunch of star level players but weren't able to supplement them with quality round 3-7 players.

The Rams should be good as long as Stafford, Kupp, Donald, Ramsey, Miller etc... are around. As long as they keep hitting on a few of those late round picks every year. This year Snead should be able to get a couple of quality players in rounds 3-7. I think they've got a supplemental round 3 pick.
 
powda said:
Trouble with going all in cap wise is you limit yourself to a 1-2 year window before a team gets dismantled. Lots of teams spend big and miss. Some teams look for sustained success through good (or stupid) drafts and miss.

Your citing an exception rather than the typical outcome.
Click to expand...

I would rather take a shot over a 2-3 year window than do what the Texans have been doing over the last 20 years. Plus if you miss you can rebuild over a 3-4 year window.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Just to be clear.. you're not sold on Joe Burrow but believe the Texans have a legit QB?

That's really what you meant?
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Legit enough to win if we put players around him to take advantage of his skills. As all teams do with their QB. A good OL, RB and some WRs. This might not happen and if not...Mills might have to win inspite of the players. And while not Brady or Roger's, he should be able to split an 8 game stretch at the least. With a good camp and last year under his belt I think he will be fine. Allow us to focus on our other needs for a year or two
 
SnakeEyes said:
Legit enough to win if we put players around him to take advantage of his skills. As all teams do with their QB. A good OL, RB and some WRs. This might not happen and if not...Mills might have to win inspite of the players. And while not Brady or Roger's, he should be able to split an 8 game stretch at the least. With a good camp and last year under his belt I think he will be fine. Allow us to focus on our other needs for a year or two
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While I am not sold on Mills as a franchise QB, I do think he still has plenty of upside to tap into yet.
He is still a bit green but we should have a good idea of what we have by the end of this next season - if we upgrade the personel around him.
Like you say, all teams try to put a good Oline, running game and receiving corp around their QB to not only give him the best chance to succeed but also take advantage of his talents.
Putting together a powerful offense (and defense) is requisite for building a powerful team and accomplishing that goal.
That should flow over into the ST.
 
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SnakeEyes said:
Legit enough to win if we put players around him to take advantage of his skills. As all teams do with their QB. A good OL, RB and some WRs. This might not happen and if not...Mills might have to win inspite of the players. And while not Brady or Roger's, he should be able to split an 8 game stretch at the least. With a good camp and last year under his belt I think he will be fine. Allow us to focus on our other needs for a year or two
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Signing Christian Kirk would be a good place to start. (Rumored) A receiving corps of Cooks/Kirk/Collins and then signing a guy like Allie-Cox, then drafting a guy like Dulcich, that would be a great place to start when it comes to putting weapons around Mills. Just gotta find a RB. If Caserio was to do this, then I would draft one of Pierce/White or Spiller in the 3rd. One of those guys should be there.
 
leebigeztx said:
If you have a top 5-10 qb, he's going to eat up a large chunk of your cap period. If you have elite players, they're going to eat up huge chunks period. You have to pay top talent when its time to get paid. You cant spread out paying people if they perform way beyond their rookie deal. Matt Stafford was always among the highest paid qbs in the nfl. Then a year before reup, he forced his way out a the Rams got him on the back end of his deal.
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And that's when Stafford won a championship. Coincidence? I think not.
 
steelbtexan said:
And that's when Stafford won a championship. Coincidence? I think not.
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Stafford always had talent but the Lions were not really giving him good support. He would have no RB but Megatron (a stud no doubt) and who? Or a RB and OL but no good WRs. Got to the Rams and had all 3 things and won a SB and SB MVP.
 
SnakeEyes said:
Stafford always had talent but the Lions were not really giving him good support. He would have no RB but Megatron (a stud no doubt) and who? Or a RB and OL but no good WRs. Got to the Rams and had all 3 things and won a SB and SB MVP.
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He's had teams good enough to win in the playoffs, but never did..
 
SnakeEyes said:
Stafford always had talent but the Lions were not really giving him good support. He would have no RB but Megatron (a stud no doubt) and who? Or a RB and OL but no good WRs. Got to the Rams and had all 3 things and won a SB and SB MVP.
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In other words the Rams were trying to win a SB, the Lions not so much.
 
texanprincess said:
Signing Christian Kirk would be a good place to start. (Rumored) A receiving corps of Cooks/Kirk/Collins and then signing a guy like Allie-Cox, then drafting a guy like Dulcich, that would be a great place to start when it comes to putting weapons around Mills. Just gotta find a RB. If Caserio was to do this, then I would draft one of Pierce/White or Spiller in the 3rd. One of those guys should be there.
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They shouldve gotten Kirk in the Hopkins deal at the minimum. I said so at the team when they were talking about players involved in the deal. To take back Johnson, who was goign to get cut was absolutely criminal
 
SnakeEyes said:
This kinda fits with possible trades

news.yahoo.com

New details on Deshaun Watson Case and the Houston Texans

FOX 26 obtained a deposition taken on Valentine’s week in court. In the document, an NFL marketing manager representing Texans Quarterback Deshaun Watson says the Texans created a Non-Disclosure agreement for Watson, which he then gave to some of the 22 women filing a lawsuit against the QB.
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com
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Saw that at the time it was on the news and didn't pay it too much attentions - but the deposition claims one of the women is asking Watson to sign an NDA
 
www.chron.com

Deshaun Watson’s QB coach Quincy Avery makes fun of Texans ‘Walmart’ receivers

In an appearance on The Ryen Russillo podcast, the quarterbacks coach praised Deshaun...
www.chron.com www.chron.com

Deshaun is not a solid quarterback. He’s not a guy who’s had a good run. This is a gangster. The way he unites a room, the way that he shows up, the way he prepares ... People don’t realize this guy’s study habits, and the way he prepares. He’s not (just) a baller. He’s not (just) a guy who runs around and makes plays. He’s as sophisticated of a learner as I’ve been around. I don’t even care what team he goes on. He’s a top three MVP candidate this year."
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, Cooks/WFV/Stills/Cobb all sucked and Jesus in Cleats was throwing the ball to himself.

It's not just Avery that thinks this but a few posters around these parts agree with Avery.
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Nobody on here agrees with Avery. But what we said at that time and when he was on the field, that he was pretty darn good. We know you do not like the young man, never did, but at that time he was considered top 5 that year. And that’s coming from people who actually played that game, coached the game or worked in that field for a long time.
 
The Texans May Be Forced To Release Deshaun Watson
The multiverse is vast, but we’re not in the right one for the Texans to be successful.
By Kenneth L. Feb 28, 2022, 12:00pm CST

While it’s whimsical fun to consider the possibilities of the Texans trading Deshaun Watson, with each passing day, the Texans’ chances of receiving reasonable compensation for their star quarterback dwindles. The ongoing depositions, the potential for criminal charges, and Watson’s contract put the Texans in an undeniable situation and time crunch.

Most recently, Deshaun Watson’s request to delay his deposition until after April 1st was denied. This is substantial news, as it compresses the timeline for Watson to provide sworn testimony and for his legal team to seek a settlement before the 2022 NFL Draft. While this does help out the cause, there’s seemingly an insurmountable roadblock in the way for pen to hit paper.

Sure, the there are rumors that a “deal might not be too far off”, but no general manager will feasibly receive approval from his owner while the civil cases are ongoing. Even worse, the potential for criminal charges to be filed and the Harris County District Attorney’s Office to get involved makes the situation even more volatile.

Multiple teams are reportedly willing to trade for the embattled quarterback before his civil suits are settled, according to a source who spoke with PFT. So it’s less of a matter of if but who, at least as it pertains to the civil cases. But even then, can the parties inside those interested franchises gather enough support in the next few weeks to pull off a trade?

GM Nick Caserio has made the required compensation well apparent. He wants three first-round picks and two second-round picks in return for dealing a franchise quarterback. That’s a haul that could change a franchise, but will a team not only be willing to part with those picks but also accept Watson’s ongoing legal troubles and the fan backlash that would accompany acquiring a QB who has been accused of sexual misconduct? Some believe all will be forgotten when Watson begins to deliver for his new franchise, but that’s a sizable bit of capital for any general manager to cash and one that may not make sense for only but a few GMs who believe they have the standing to take that risk.

The reality is that the Texans simply require too specific of a trade partner for them to benefit from a bidding war. The Texans need a team (1) that has the salary cap space to take on Watson’s contract, (2) that Watson actually wants to go to (thanks to the veto power he has via a no-trade clause), (3) that truly needs an upgrade at quarterback, (4) that has sufficient talent to surround Watson, (5) that has the draft capital to make the deal and is willing to part with it, but will potentially not be too good over the next three years so the Texans can receive their desired return, and (6) management that is willing to endure the immediate disapproval of their fan base for bringing Watson aboard. That’s a lot of conditions.

The secondary question is the Texans’ patience and impatience at play. The Texans desperately want to find a trade partner to end this saga. They also want it to happen before the draft in late April so they can avoid waiting an entire season for the benefits of a trade to kick in. Not only that, but there is a monetary cliff the Texans can avoid. Watson’s 2022 salary becomes fully guaranteed for $35 million at the start of the league years. That’s money the Texans certainly don’t want to pay if they can avoid doing so.

As mentioned above, don’t forget that Watson can make or break a trade on some level. He has a no-trade clause that he can use to accept a trade only if he approves of where he’s going. We already know Watson reportedly nixed a trade to Carolina last year, demonstrating his preference and willingness to utilize the full bounds of his power. Will that feeling change now that he’s lost a year of his career after sitting 2021 out?

Inevitably, the Texans will be forced to do one of two things. They will either reduce their trade demands to a more palatable level for other franchises or they will have to cut Deshaun Watson. Even if all of Watson’s legal issues are resolved today (and they won’t be), the Texans aren’t able to officially trade him until the league year begins on March 16th. That gives them 43 days to strike a deal between the start of the league year and the first day of the NFL Draft.
THE REST OF THE STORY
**********

The Texans will not let go of Watson without a mechanism with which they can recoup lost monies and/or comparable draft/player compensation.
 
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cant they just keep him another year on the bench ..???? and pay him the 40 mill infact make him play a few games this year get his stock Up lol

we are not going any were this year anyways ..????
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Texans May Be Forced To Release Deshaun Watson
The multiverse is vast, but we’re not in the right one for the Texans to be successful.
By Kenneth L. Feb 28, 2022, 12:00pm CST

While it’s whimsical fun to consider the possibilities of the Texans trading Deshaun Watson, with each passing day, the Texans’ chances of receiving reasonable compensation for their star quarterback dwindles. The ongoing depositions, the potential for criminal charges, and Watson’s contract put the Texans in an undeniable situation and time crunch.

Most recently, Deshaun Watson’s request to delay his deposition until after April 1st was denied. This is substantial news, as it compresses the timeline for Watson to provide sworn testimony and for his legal team to seek a settlement before the 2022 NFL Draft. While this does help out the cause, there’s seemingly an insurmountable roadblock in the way for pen to hit paper.

Sure, the there are rumors that a “deal might not be too far off”, but no general manager will feasibly receive approval from his owner while the civil cases are ongoing. Even worse, the potential for criminal charges to be filed and the Harris County District Attorney’s Office to get involved makes the situation even more volatile.
Multiple teams are reportedly willing to trade for the embattled quarterback before his civil suits are settled, according to a source who spoke with PFT. So it’s less of a matter of if but who, at least as it pertains to the civil cases. But even then, can the parties inside those interested franchises gather enough support in the next few weeks to pull off a trade?

GM Nick Caserio has made the required compensation well apparent. He wants three first-round picks and two second-round picks in return for dealing a franchise quarterback. That’s a haul that could change a franchise, but will a team not only be willing to part with those picks but also accept Watson’s ongoing legal troubles and the fan backlash that would accompany acquiring a QB who has been accused of sexual misconduct? Some believe all will be forgotten when Watson begins to deliver for his new franchise, but that’s a sizable bit of capital for any general manager to cash and one that may not make sense for only but a few GMs who believe they have the standing to take that risk.
The reality is that the Texans simply require too specific of a trade partner for them to benefit from a bidding war. The Texans need a team (1) that has the salary cap space to take on Watson’s contract, (2) that Watson actually wants to go to (thanks to the veto power he has via a no-trade clause), (3) that truly needs an upgrade at quarterback, (4) that has sufficient talent to surround Watson, (5) that has the draft capital to make the deal and is willing to part with it, but will potentially not be too good over the next three years so the Texans can receive their desired return, and (6) management that is willing to endure the immediate disapproval of their fan base for bringing Watson aboard. That’s a lot of conditions.
AD
The secondary question is the Texans’ patience and impatience at play. The Texans desperately want to find a trade partner to end this saga. They also want it to happen before the draft in late April so they can avoid waiting an entire season for the benefits of a trade to kick in. Not only that, but there is a monetary cliff the Texans can avoid. Watson’s 2022 salary becomes fully guaranteed for $35 million at the start of the league years. That’s money the Texans certainly don’t want to pay if they can avoid doing so.

As mentioned above, don’t forget that Watson can make or break a trade on some level. He has a no-trade clause that he can use to accept a trade only if he approves of where he’s going. We already know Watson reportedly nixed a trade to Carolina last year, demonstrating his preference and willingness to utilize the full bounds of his power. Will that feeling change now that he’s lost a year of his career after sitting 2021 out?

Inevitably, the Texans will be forced to do one of two things. They will either reduce their trade demands to a more palatable level for other franchises or they will have to cut Deshaun Watson. Even if all of Watson’s legal issues are resolved today (and they won’t be), the Texans aren’t able to officially trade him until the league year begins on March 16th. That gives them 43 days to strike a deal between the start of the league year and the first day of the NFL Draft.
THE REST OF THE STORY
**********

The Texans will not let go of Watson without a mechanism with which they can recoup lost monies and/or comparable draft/player compensation.
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It's now slightly more than 2 weeks until the league new year on March 16 and his new contract kicks in and is fully guaranteed for $35M. And yes they could potentially just sit him for a second year while paying him to do so. If Caserio hangs firm on getting full compensation, this is very likely. If he comes down on his price, enough, maybe he could get a team to bite.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Nobody on here agrees with Avery. But what we said at that time and when he was on the field, that he was pretty darn good. We know you do not like the young man, never did, but at that time he was considered top 5 that year. And that’s coming from people who actually played that game, coached the game or worked in that field for a long time.
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Some but not all.
 
Inevitably, the Texans will be forced to do one of two things. They will either reduce their trade demands to a more palatable level for other franchises or they will have to cut Deshaun Watson.
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This has been my assumption of how it will play out in the end.

Watson holds the leverage with the NTC, so he can just veto every trade until it's what he wants or force the McNairs to pay him or cut him.

If they are willing to pay him in 2022 while waiting for their pot of gold, I hope they try to play him so he can go ahead and fake his injury and show the world the real Deshaun Watson agenda.
 
Double Barrel said:
Watson holds the leverage with the NTC, so he can just veto every trade until it's what he wants or force the McNairs to pay him or cut him.
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Right, until the Texans do something like stop paying him.

I understand they may have no legal right to do so, but I would let it go to arbitration & legally maneuver it to keep pushing off that arbitration.
 
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Double Barrel said:
This has been my assumption of how it will play out in the end.

Watson holds the leverage with the NTC, so he can just veto every trade until it's what he wants or force the McNairs to pay him or cut him.

If they are willing to pay him in 2022 while waiting for their pot of gold, I hope they try to play him so he can go ahead and fake his injury and show the world the real Deshaun Watson agenda.
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There's still the possibility Goodell may take some action if nothing is resolved before the 1st game, when his first paycheck is paid. Unlikely before the draft.
 
Number19 said:
There's still the possibility Goodell may take some action if nothing is resolved before the 1st game, when his first paycheck is paid. Unlikely before the draft.
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Why?

The NFL has already stated they find no reason to put him on the CEL. Unless they open another investigation they'll have no reason to put him on the list before the season.
 
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