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Davis Mills is a poor man's...

I'm fine with waiting on mills. Take another late round qb this draft but build the line and secondary. See where the chips fall and how he develops. If I've got a decent line and can add rb/wr talent 2023 is the year I really evaluate Mills. Prior to that I don't have the talent to see what he's capable of and unless Watson 2.0 (minus the massage addiction) falls into my lap I snag him but otherwise I'm not really trying to replace mills until after I see what happens in 2023. Build a team around a qb, then get a qb with a rock solid team around him on a rookie deal so you get 5 years that you can keep talent around.
 
leebigeztx said:
Please pull that thread up. Personally

Please pull that thread up, but coming from you, it doesn't sound out of the way especially with your disdain for Watson. Buffalo traded for Diggs and got a 1st. Signed Beasley, signed Sanders, drafted Davis and Knox and fielded the #1 defense in the NFL. Please tell me what the Texans did? I know. Traded a top 5 wr, had bums designing and calling plays.

Shanny is calling plays to keep Jimmy from losing the game. Again, a top 3 defense and a top 5 run game and one of the most innovative coaches we've seen off his daddy tree. Everybody and their mama knew Shanny wasn't about to entrust Jimmy G and was running the ball, yet GB passed the bed again. Not to mention Lynch and Shanny has proven they can build a team , Caserio hasn't to date. Mills ain't beating any of those guys in the playoffs, I'm sorry. He doesn't have special traits or qualities. At the end of the day, the weaker your qb the more you need to win. In today's nfl, your qb is going to have to make up for things you don't have. By the way, isn't the dude Esterby ran out of town with the Bills? I thought so
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Josh Allen (2018)
GS- 11 / 5-6 / A- 320 / C- 169 / CP- 52.8% / Y- 2,074 / TD- 10 / INT- 12 / R- 67.9

Davis Mills (2021)
GS- 11 / 2-9 / A- 394 / C- 263 / CP- 66.8% / Y- 2,664 / TD- 16 / INT- 10 / R- 88.8

Mills had a heck of a developmental season playing for one of the worst teams that could be suited up and sent onto an NFL field.

Allen was playing with the Bills who were light years better than the 2021 Texans, but like the Texans they had to wait for Allen to hit his stride which came the following season when they went 10-6 and finished 2nd to the Patriots.

You’re 100% certain Mills has already hit his ceiling? Were you this certain of Allen after his 2018 season while playing on a much better Bills team?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Josh Allen (2018)
GS- 11 / 5-6 / A- 320 / C- 169 / CP- 52.8% / Y- 2,074 / TD- 10 / INT- 12 / R- 67.9

Davis Mills (2021)
GS- 11 / 2-9 / A- 394 / C- 263 / CP- 66.8% / Y- 2,664 / TD- 16 / INT- 10 / R- 88.8

Mills had a heck of a developmental season playing for one of the worst teams that could be suited up and sent onto an NFL field.

Allen was playing with the Bills who were light years better than the 2021 Texans, but like the Texans they had to wait for Allen to hit his stride which came the following season when they went 10-6 and finished 2nd to the Patriots.

You’re 100% certain Mills has already hit his ceiling? Were you this certain of Allen after his 2018 season while playing on a much better Bills team?
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Yep, and I called Allen just like I'm calling Mills if Caserio puts the talent around Mills like Beane has Allen
 
thunderkyss said:
I think it’s more accurate to say he, like Flacco hasn’t consistently shown those intangibles. They’ve both shown flashes, Flacco, & Foles for that matter, have been able to string enough of those performances together to win a Super Bowl.

The problem is they were paid as if they were something they were not.

Caserio has three more years to determine if Mills is that guy. Three more years also to find & acquire that guy as well.

So, imo, as long as Mills is on his rookie contract, Caserio is ahead of the sticks if Mills plays like Cousins, Foles, or Flacco.
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As talent is put around Mills I expect him to be better than the guys you listed.
 
thunderkyss said:
Can you imagine Davis Mills in that game last night? On those teams, replace Allen/Mahomes with Mills. Does it play out like it did?
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At this point in time no it doesn't but give him the number of years in the NFL that Allen and Mahomes have had plus the team around him they do and who knows. Mahomes has been a rock star pretty much from day one but Allen posted the league's lowest completion percentage two years in a row (2018 52.8% and 2019 58.8%). It wasn't till 2020 that he really started to turn it up. Mills has already beaten that with 66.8% this year.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Josh Allen (2018)
GS- 11 / 5-6 / A- 320 / C- 169 / CP- 52.8% / Y- 2,074 / TD- 10 / INT- 12 / R- 67.9

Davis Mills (2021)
GS- 11 / 2-9 / A- 394 / C- 263 / CP- 66.8% / Y- 2,664 / TD- 16 / INT- 10 / R- 88.8

Mills had a heck of a developmental season playing for one of the worst teams that could be suited up and sent onto an NFL field.

Allen was playing with the Bills who were light years better than the 2021 Texans, but like the Texans they had to wait for Allen to hit his stride which came the following season when they went 10-6 and finished 2nd to the Patriots.

You’re 100% certain Mills has already hit his ceiling? Were you this certain of Allen after his 2018 season while playing on a much better Bills team?
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Allen had elite ability and potential, mills dont. I didn't say Mills was a bum, from what I've seen, his ceiling is not high. It doesn't mean he can't be a solid qb, but solid isn't going to get it. See, you can be objective without killing a player. Davis Mills can play a long time in this league. I used to get into debates with 76Texan about Keenum. I'm not comparing the 2, I'm just saying you can't build a team long term to carry a mid tier talent qb. Not only that, look at the afc and tell me how you're going to get out the web of young qbs? The worse place to be is like Minnesota and Kirk Cousins. He's just good enough to not win
 
maverick512000 said:
but give him the number of years in the NFL that Allen and Mahomes have had plus the team around him they do and who knows.
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I agree. Just saying that's what leebigeztx was getting at.

What we saw last night was probably 75% talent & 25% want to.

I don't think Mills is anywhere close to Mahomes talent & he's a little shy of Allen (that arm), so Mills will have to bring 35/40% more want to to put together a game like that.

I'm 100% sure Mahomes can repeat that performance next week or the week after if he has to.

Maybe 70% sure Allen could
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree. Just saying that's what leebigeztx was getting at.

What we saw last night was probably 75% talent & 25% want to.

I don't think Mills is anywhere close to Mahomes talent & he's a little shy of Allen (that arm), so Mills will have to bring 35/40% more want to to put together a game like that.

I'm 100% sure Mahomes can repeat that performance next week or the week after if he has to.

Maybe 70% sure Allen could
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Thats the thing though everyone talks about QB vs QB but in reality its always QB vs defense. You can have a great QB but if the other team has a shut out defense and your great QB never scores then that other team doesn't also have to have a great QB they just have to get some points on the board. Its how guys like Flacco and Old Man Manning got their last rings. It doesn't build dynasties like NE but it does get you to the dance at least one year.
 
You don't have to keep Mills forever.... Unless he makes you. In the meantime you don't have to replace him immediately either. What difference does it make. The last time I paid attention to the Texans it seemed very much like the same kind of argument but it was about Case Keenum. There was no reason to not enjoy the moments he flashed. What else did we have? There was also no reason not to give him 2014 to putz around back there and either become something or not.

Mills can have 2022. What difference will it make? It's not like franchise QB's grow on trees and just like in 2014 the Texans are back to wandering in the desert looking for water again.
 
leebigeztx said:
Allen had elite ability and potential, mills dont. I didn't say Mills was a bum, from what I've seen, his ceiling is not high. It doesn't mean he can't be a solid qb, but solid isn't going to get it. See, you can be objective without killing a player. Davis Mills can play a long time in this league. I used to get into debates with 76Texan about Keenum. I'm not comparing the 2, I'm just saying you can't build a team long term to carry a mid tier talent qb. Not only that, look at the afc and tell me how you're going to get out the web of young qbs? The worse place to be is like Minnesota and Kirk Cousins. He's just good enough to not win
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He was only considered a tier 2 QB b/c he entered the draft a season early and only 11 CFB starts under his belt. If Mills plays at Stanford in 2021….not just me, but many football analyst had him pegged as a RD1 QB in the 2022 NFL Draft. Based on his progression this season….no doubt that Mills is the #1 QB in this years draft. Again, the Texans got him a year early and Mills obviously benefitted from his early arrival.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
no doubt that Mills is the #1 QB and a RD1 top 10 prospect in this years draft.
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I was with you until we got here. 1st round projection, sure. #1 QB in this class, I could see it. Top 10 prospect? I don't know.

Mahomes, Watson, Ben Roethlisberger, Mac Jones all drafted outside of the top 10. & Mills is more like Jones than the other 3
 
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thunderkyss said:
I was with until we got here. 1st round projection, sure. #1 QB in this class, I could see it. Top 10 prospect? I don't know.

Mahomes, Watson, Ben Roethlisberger, Mac Jones all drafted outside of the top 10. & Mills is more like Jones than the other 3
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Yeah in THIS year's draft I think he would have gone top 10 if he had that extra year. Maybe not top 3 or 5 but Panthers, Falcons, Giants and Broncos all need some QB help and Giants even have 2 picks in the top 10 so they could throw one Mills way without losing much.
 
Well, I know one thing .... the kid's a quick study ! Ya know .... when he first began, he was so confused, he couldn't even complete a 5 yd pass .... he's come a long way quickly ! Hell, he could've tried too hard on the wonderlic .... if he had settled down, he might've tied Fitzpatrick ! We've yet to see his best !
 
thunderkyss said:
Can you imagine Davis Mills in that game last night? On those teams, replace Allen/Mahomes with Mills. Does it play out like it did?
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I personally don't think Mills will ever reach the level of Allen/Mahomes. Doesn't mean he won't, or that he can't be a top 10 QB at some point. That said, you can't ask if a 3rd round rookie would play like those 2 did last night. In both of their rookie years, they were dreaming about the playoffs just like Mills is now. Statistically Mills was better than Allen his rookie season, and if you want to get technical, Mills had 16 more TD passes than Mahomes did his rookie season. Yeah, reaching there, I know, but WTF?

Point is, those guys are 4-5 years into their careers. Of course Mahomes exploded when he did finally play, but it took a minute for Allen, as it does for most. Let's see where Mills is at in 2-3 years. Hell, he's already going to be on his 2nd HC and OC. Allen and Mahomes have both had the same HC and OC since they came in.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
He was only considered a tier 2 QB b/c he entered the draft a season early and only 11 CFB starts under his belt. If Mills plays at Stanford in 2021….not just me, but many football analyst had him pegged as a RD1 QB in the 2022 NFL Draft. Based on his progression this season….no doubt that Mills is the #1 QB and a RD1 top 10 prospect in this years draft. Again, the Texans got him a year early and Mills obviously benefitted from his early arrival.
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This is that Matt Barkley argument. If he came out early, he would've been a 1st rd pick. All that stuff is speculation. He wasn't that good when he played at Stanford. He was ok, but he didn't show top shelf ability. Top that off, he could've hit the transfer portal and played at a SEC school if that was the worry. We just watched Jamar Chase and Parson sit out an entire season and go top 10. Why? Because of their top shelf talent. I've said before, I don't see the talent. The ball doesn't explode out of his hand for a guy 6'4. He has to have clean pockets to drive the ball. In my opinion he's a solid starter/backup, but I will change my mind in 2 more seasons if warranted.
 
leebigeztx said:
This is that Matt Barkley argument. If he came out early, he would've been a 1st rd pick. All that stuff is speculation. He wasn't that good when he played at Stanford. He was ok, but he didn't show top shelf ability. Top that off, he could've hit the transfer portal and played at a SEC school if that was the worry. We just watched Jamar Chase and Parson sit out an entire season and go top 10. Why? Because of their top shelf talent. I've said before, I don't see the talent. The ball doesn't explode out of his hand for a guy 6'4. He has to have clean pockets to drive the ball. In my opinion he's a solid starter/backup, but I will change my mind in 2 more seasons if warranted.
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Why didn’t Josh Allen have a better rookie season than Mills? How is it that Mills put up superior numbers with a far worse team in the same amount of rookie starts?
 
leebigeztx said:
This is that Matt Barkley argument. If he came out early, he would've been a 1st rd pick. All that stuff is speculation. He wasn't that good when he played at Stanford. He was ok, but he didn't show top shelf ability. Top that off, he could've hit the transfer portal and played at a SEC school if that was the worry. We just watched Jamar Chase and Parson sit out an entire season and go top 10. Why? Because of their top shelf talent. I've said before, I don't see the talent. The ball doesn't explode out of his hand for a guy 6'4. He has to have clean pockets to drive the ball. In my opinion he's a solid starter/backup, but I will change my mind in 2 more seasons if warranted.
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Agree on the speculation. I don't understand how anyone can speculate about "if he didn't leave early, he would be a first rounder or even a top 10 pick". How can anyone make that statement and don't even know the last time Stanford played a full season and had a winning record or the talent level of the Stanford WRs and OL?

I bet if you ask fans who makes that speculation, the majority of them would have no idea about the talent level at Stanford and its potential impact on Mills' performance. We might have gotten a steal or a career backup. Who knows at this point and this first round speculation is nothing but speculation based on hope that he turns out to be the answer at QB.
 
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Earl34 said:
Agree on the speculation. I don't understand how anyone can speculate about "if he didn't leave early, he would be a first rounder or even a top 10 pick". How can anyyou make that statement and don't even know the last time Stanford played a full season and had a winning record or the talent level of the Stanford WRs and OL?

I bet if you ask fans who makes that speculation, the majority of them would have no idea about the talent level at Stanford and its potential impact on Mills' performance. We might have gotten a steal or a career backup. Who knows at this point and this first round speculation is nothing but speculation based on hope that he turns out to be the answer at QB.
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I know some “reporter/talent scout” made the comment. But you have to take that with a grain of salt. It doesn’t mean anything.

Every year the draftnicks pump somebody up. Sometimes they get it right. Sometimes they don’t. You just never know
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Why didn’t Josh Allen have a better rookie season than Mills? How is it that Mills put up superior numbers with a far worse team in the same amount of rookie starts?
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Josh Allen was a raw talent playing at Wyoming via Juco. He had 1 scholarship offer for a guy 6'5 250 with a rocket and can run. He was the typical high risk / high reward. Not to mention you need a qb who can play in those elements. Its about the long game when it comes to qbs. Baker Mayfield had a better rookie season than Allen as did Sam Darnold, but neither had his physical gifts and upside. Do you hear anyone talking about those guys rookie years vs Allen now? Of course not
 
leebigeztx said:
Josh Allen was a raw talent playing at Wyoming via Juco. He had 1 scholarship offer for a guy 6'5 250 with a rocket and can run. He was the typical high risk / high reward. Not to mention you need a qb who can play in those elements. Its about the long game when it comes to qbs. Baker Mayfield had a better rookie season than Allen as did Sam Darnold, but neither had his physical gifts and upside. Do you hear anyone talking about those guys rookie years vs Allen now? Of course not
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Hopefully someone hires Daboll & the Bills hire Freddie Kitchens.
 
leebigeztx said:
Josh Allen was a raw talent playing at Wyoming via Juco. He had 1 scholarship offer for a guy 6'5 250 with a rocket and can run. He was the typical high risk / high reward. Not to mention you need a qb who can play in those elements. Its about the long game when it comes to qbs. Baker Mayfield had a better rookie season than Allen as did Sam Darnold, but neither had his physical gifts and upside. Do you hear anyone talking about those guys rookie years vs Allen now? Of course not
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Angle it however you may….Mills had a nice season of growth by playing those 11 games. If Caserio and the Texans hold up their end of the bargain by adding talent, coaches and scheme….I believe Mills will holdup his end of the bargain. Just another high risk - high reward QB.
 
Earl34 said:
Agree on the speculation. I don't understand how anyone can speculate about "if he didn't leave early, he would be a first rounder or even a top 10 pick". How can anyone make that statement and don't even know the last time Stanford played a full season and had a winning record or the talent level of the Stanford WRs and OL?

I bet if you ask fans who makes that speculation, the majority of them would have no idea about the talent level at Stanford and its potential impact on Mills' performance. We might have gotten a steal or a career backup. Who knows at this point and this first round speculation is nothing but speculation based on hope that he turns out to be the answer at QB.
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Exactly, that’s why we have to give a player time verses immediately throwing out what type of ceiling he has.

Personally I was very impressed with the young man’s progression. This is why I hope we find a way to keep Coach Pep.

Give the young man time people.
 
leebigeztx said:
Josh Allen was a raw talent playing at Wyoming via Juco. He had 1 scholarship offer for a guy 6'5 250 with a rocket and can run. He was the typical high risk / high reward. Not to mention you need a qb who can play in those elements. Its about the long game when it comes to qbs. Baker Mayfield had a better rookie season than Allen as did Sam Darnold, but neither had his physical gifts and upside. Do you hear anyone talking about those guys rookie years vs Allen now? Of course not
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If you could draft a guy this year, who?
 
Jack Burton said:
If you could draft a guy this year, who?
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I know this question wasn't asked of me, but since a Dr. cleared Strong and said there was little chance of long term damage to his knee, if I'm a team like the Steelers/Broncos/Redskins/Panthers etc... I'm looking at trading up for Strong. People will see after the Sr. Bowl, just like with Herbert and the people who doubted him.
 
steelbtexan said:
I know this question wasn't asked of me, but since a Dr. cleared Strong and said there was little chance of long term damage to his knee, if I'm a team like the Steelers/Broncos/Redskins/Panthers etc... I'm looking at trading up for Strong. People will see after the Sr. Bowl, just like with Herbert and the people who doubted him.
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Maybe a “Strong” performance in the Senior Bowl, Combine, and on his Pro Day could make the Texans #3 pick a bit more valuable.
 
The worst thing you can have at QB is a mediocre one.

Long ago, I touted for the Texans to trade for Matt Schaub, knowing that he was limited.
But back then, there wasn't many teams that that run the ZBS with the WCO.
You can find cheaper talent on the line.
Nowadays, there are so many teams running the scheme, or a close variation; it's harder to find guys since they're coveted by different teams in the draft.
 
I am very Texanscentric. I don't watch as much football as I used to.

How is it that people are looking at Mac Jones & looking at Davis Mills & seeing totally different tracks these guys are on?

Should the Patriots be looking for a franchise QB? Or should they go forward with Mac Jones until he proves he's not going to be a top QB in the league?

Does anyone believe Mac Jones will be mentioned with Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert?
 
I'm sure hoping Mills is the real deal. He certainly has the potential to be. If not, we have the draft capital to get a QB next year. I'd rather see Mills be the one, it saves us the trauma of having to going through another gamble on a highly ranked draft choice.
 
Thorn said:
I'm sure hoping Mills is the real deal. He certainly has the potential to be. If not, we have the draft capital to get a QB next year. I'd rather see Mills be the one, it saves us the trauma of having to going through another gamble on a highly ranked draft choice.
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He needs to come out significantly improved or just dont even waste time.
 
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