So if a QB forces the ball that's 100 percent on him.
Just wanted to make sure we are on the same wavelength.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
David Johnson... welcome to houston
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
Just wanted to make sure we are on the same wavelength.
RGV82
Random guy
I was never even debating that.
In any offense they have to be on the same page.
I remember Matt Schaub throwing to AJ or OD or Walter, even if they were “covered” he’d give them a shot to make a play.
But Jacoby had to be wtf open to get anything thrown his way.
WR has to get open. QB has to trust that WR would get open.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Cool. We just traded away an all-pro receiver that just entered his prime... for a back we are hoping returns to his prime. Makes sense.
RGV82
Random guy
Yes and subsequently gave up a 2nd round pick (where we could have drafted a RB better than David Johnson at a way cheaper salary) in exchange for a WR worse than Hopkins.Cool. We just traded away an all-pro receiver that just entered his prime... for a back we are hoping returns to his prime. Makes sense.
Cool. We just traded away an all-pro receiver that just entered his prime... for a back we are hoping returns to his prime. Makes sense.
And a very good wr and moving up 17 spots in the draft and cap room.
Cooks ($8 million) + Johnson (11 million) + Hopkins dead money ($ 3 million) is 57% more than Hopkins cap hit would have been ($14 million).
As some might say, it's simple freakin' math.
That you can get out of after this yr if need be instead of being tied up at 5 years 100 mil with 50-60 guaranteed. Plus you don't have to deal with Nuk wanting to renegotiate every freaking yr.
RGV82
Random guy
I would rather deal with that than have an overpaid 1 year wonder RB David Johnson (which we could have gotten a better RB in the 2nd round for cheaper) and a wildcard WR in Cooks.
You also don't have to deal with Hopkins making plays and winning games.
Wait, that didn't come out right.
Could have used that 3.6 ypc in 2018. Alfred Blue averaged 3.3 on 150 carries that season. 3.3 was fine with O'Brien that season.
RGV82
Random guy
Lol. Irrelevant to the situation now.
We will see if they are winning games next season That will tell the tale.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Now we just need OB to be smart using him.
Not saying Johnson is as good as Foster but has upside if he regains some form.
Not saying Johnson is as good as Foster but has upside if he regains some form.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The Cardinals' offensive line in the 2018 season [dead last (32nd) for the season per our beloved PFF.............25th total OL ranking and 28th run blocking per FootballOutsiders] was a total mess when fully healthy, while only rookie center Mason Cole was able to stay healthy for more than 600 snaps that season. Eleven different offensive linemen played at least 100 snaps for the Cardinals that season, and not a single one played well. Josh Rosen didn’t have a chance. Neither did Johnson.
RGV82
Random guy
David Johnson continued his low YPC in 2019 with 3.6 yet Kenyan Drake averaged 5.2 with the same offensive line. Was it really different in 2018 vs. 2019. What’s your theory on Kenyan Drake’s 5.2 YPC?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
David Johnson takes lessons Larry Fitzgerald taught him to Houston
8 hours ago
Houston, Texas- David Johnson arrives to the Houston Texans under the spotlight not only as a player with question marks but being traded for a fan favorite in wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins.
Understanding the gravity of the situation, Johnson is staying focused on his new team and more importantly the lessons that good friend and future Hall of Fame wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald have taught him along the way.
When asked about Fitzgerald's influence on him as a man, Johnson spoke highly of his friend.
Johnson on Fitzgerald's influence on him in Arizona.
*********************************
When I think of that selfless mentor description Johnson gives of Fitzgerald, I immediately conjure up memories of hearing these things about AJ........not another elite WR.
8 hours ago
Houston, Texas- David Johnson arrives to the Houston Texans under the spotlight not only as a player with question marks but being traded for a fan favorite in wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins.
Understanding the gravity of the situation, Johnson is staying focused on his new team and more importantly the lessons that good friend and future Hall of Fame wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald have taught him along the way.
When asked about Fitzgerald's influence on him as a man, Johnson spoke highly of his friend.
Johnson on Fitzgerald's influence on him in Arizona.
The REST OF THE STORY
*********************************
When I think of that selfless mentor description Johnson gives of Fitzgerald, I immediately conjure up memories of hearing these things about AJ........not another elite WR.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Real simple.........[besides the fact that in 2019, Arizona earned a PFF run-blocking grade as an OL that ranked 4th worst in the NFL — ahead of just the Dolphins, Bengals and Rams.] It was the different way Johnson was used. He only had 18 carries in the last 10 games. Compare receiving numbers............Johnson was used more in the passing game...........11.3 receiving yds/carry...........4 receiving TDs.
It's interesting to note that in 2019, PFF gave Drake an overall grade of 71.2..........and Johnson an overall grade of 72.2.
Last edited:
RGV82
Random guy
Drake’s grade would be much higher if you only factored his time in Arizona. His grade is factoring in the part of the season he played on the horrible Dolphins as well. I’d like to see his grade for only his time comparable to David Johnson only on the Cardinals.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It wouldn't change how differently Arizona used the two.
RGV82
Random guy
It would change his grade as you posted at the bottom. You said DJ had a higher grade. My point is that Drake’s grade is lower because he played on a horrible offense in Miami last year too.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Another important factor, Kingsbury did not have any say in inheriting Johnson on the team. Drake on the other hand was a personal Kingsbury pick, and he made it known in the way he preferentially used him. It is well known that RBs need reps to get into any rhythm. Johnson was not given that opportunity ever since Drake joined the team in 2019.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This all started with my answer to your original question.
Then, when you got your answers, your questions/responses quickly devolved into other subjects/comparisons. Personally, I don't give a darn about Drake, what he did or didn't do..........he's not a Texan. And it still in no way changes what and why Johnson performed how he did in 2018 or 2019.
Then, when you got your answers, your questions/responses quickly devolved into other subjects/comparisons. Personally, I don't give a darn about Drake, what he did or didn't do..........he's not a Texan. And it still in no way changes what and why Johnson performed how he did in 2018 or 2019.
RGV82
Random guy
I didn’t change anything. YOU were the one who brought up the PFF grade between Drake and Johnson. I was simply responding to YOUR stat as to why Johnson’s was higher last year.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
You might want to rethink your comment. You were the one that out of the clear blue first inserted Drake into the discussion.
I not interested in playing games with you. So I'll let you go back to your sandbox and have fun all by yourself. I'm out of here.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Now we just have to hope our line is much improved and Johnson is used wisely.
I would limit his snaps a little with his injury history until I was confident he could handle a higher workload - perhaps use him as a receiving back more often and let Duke be the workhorse with the running duties.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Texans rushed for 2,009 yards on 434 carries for a 4.6 yards per carry average and 125.6 yards per game. 9th best in 2019. This was accomplished with a 6 Year veteran HC/OC and an offensive system that leans heavily on the run. So much so....most NFL defenses knew the Texans running plays better than they did.
Cardinals rushed for 1,990 yards on 396 carries for a 5.0 yards per carry average and 124.4 yards per game. 10th best in 2019. This was accomplished with a rookie HC, a brand new offensive system that features the passing game and the NFL's worst OL.
RGV82
Random guy
Yes. I inserted Drake into the discussion because he was playing in the same offense as David Johnson. I was simply comparing the 2 while playing in the SAME offense. That’s a legit comparison. You then gave PFF ratings of the 2, not taking into consideration that Drake’s rating is based on ANOTHER offense (Miami) as well. Which completely contradicts what I was talking about. Not sure what you are getting your panties in a bunch for. You gave ratings based on one of them playing in a completely different offense for part of the year.
Last edited:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Looked into Johnson's 2019 season a bit deeper. In week 2, he was gang tackled and sustained a "back injury" which he dealt with the first half of the season. This was not a lumbar disc problem. It was a muscle strain. However, a muscular back strain as anyone who has suffered one can attest to can still be quite debilitating, and requires some significant rest and intense rehab, which is something that he was not afforded. He acutely reaggravated his back during a great performance in week 5. As this would have a definite effect on his core, he then in week 7 sustained a compensatory low ankle (not a high ankle) sprain . He missed week 8, and that was when Drake was brought in on trade, and from then on, Johnson was put on the Kingsbury's back burner.
Johnson's injuries no doubt had an adverse effect on his 2019 season. But neither of these injuries should have significant long-term consequences. That's why in his interviews he states that he has now had the opportunity and time to put in the work to get his body healthy again, like for his rookie year, before taking the field with the Texans. As he puts it, he will be be returning with the new beginnings of a clean slate, and back to playing with a big chip on his shoulder.
Johnson's injuries no doubt had an adverse effect on his 2019 season. But neither of these injuries should have significant long-term consequences. That's why in his interviews he states that he has now had the opportunity and time to put in the work to get his body healthy again, like for his rookie year, before taking the field with the Texans. As he puts it, he will be be returning with the new beginnings of a clean slate, and back to playing with a big chip on his shoulder.
Last edited:
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Cool. We just traded away an all-pro r eceiver that just entered his prime... for a back we are hoping returns to his prime. Makes sense.
Has he even had a prime? The one All-Pro year in his sophomore season, and that’s been it. Nothing else even remotely close to that. Steve Slaton had more rushing yards in a season than Johnson has. And 4.8 YPC to Johnson’s 4.2 as well.
OK, that's the bright side. I see your case regarding Johnson's supporting cast in 2018 and 2019. However, Johnson's O-Line in 2016 was not very good, either. The Cards had lost 4 of 5 starters, and were left with Ioputi at LG, a rookie at RT, a LT that was lost in the middle of the season, and a bunch of fringe guys filling in the holes.
Yet, Johnson had a kick arse, All Pro year, playing over 80% of the offensive snaps in 2016. The 2016 David Johnson was a workhorse. The 2016 David Johnson would not have been beaten out by Kenyan Drake. The 2016 David Johnson would not have averaged 3.7 ypc over the past 2 seasons. An $11 million salary for the 2016 David Johnson would be a bargain.
The Texans are getting the 2020 David Johnson . The 2020 David Johnson that will turn 29 during the season. That's more likely to be slowed by the nicks and pains of a full season. How many other starting RB jobs could the 2020 David Johnson contend for around the league? 2 or 3, to be kind? That puts him in the bottom 10% of the league. While, the 2020 David Johnson is being paid in the top 10 percentile.
Can the Texans get by with 2020 David Johnson as their lead back? The 2019 Texans got by with Carlos Hyde. But, the 2019 Texans had a passing attack that featured an All Pro WR. The All Pro WR that was traded for 2020 David Johnson. This reminds me of the Texans signing Ahman Green in 2007. Green had an All Pro year 4 years prior to signing with the Texans as a free agent. A great dual purpose RB. 3 so-so seasons later, Green's a Texan. I won't go into detail how badly that worked out, but to say it put back the Kubiak program 2 years. What is more likely? Getting the 2016 David Johnson? Or, the 2007 Ahman Green?
Killer Bee
Waterboy
Probably somewhere in between. The Ahman Green signing couldn't have gone any worse, but it was also predictable. David Johnson has quite a bit more tread on the tires then what Green did at the time of his signing. Granted, a big reason why is due to DJs rash of injuries. I'm going to be cautiously optimistic and hope his string of injuries are behind him. I think we can all agree that the possible performance spectrum for 2020 DJ is vast, from an All-Pro to a dud.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. My idea of a ceiling for Johnson would be Mark Ingram. Serviceble. A guy that could get 50% of the snaps. Part of the solution, but not an All Pro stud. But I see that as less likely than a 2019 David Johnson. 2019 David Johnson was 5th in rushing amongst RBs age 28 or over.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I disagree with that somewhat. I think any All-Pro expectations are a bit high. Outlier seasons like he had in 2016 happen like that all the time. As I've mentioned, Steve Slaton had a better year rushing his rookie season than Johnson did in his All-Pro season. Slaton, of course, never rushed for 1,000 again and lasted just 3 more seasons. Johnson has yet to crack 1,000 since then.
Larry Johnson had 2 huge years back-2-back, and then never amounted to much after that. Barry Foster had the one huge All-Pro season, the only 1,000 yard season of his career. Abnormalities like that happen all the time. RB has a very short life span anymore, and Johnson is already 28 and 4 years removed from that abnormal season.
I think his ceiling is about what Hyde and Miller have given us the last few seasons, and of course, his floor could be in that dud range. But I think expecting him to reach that All-Pro status again is a little much.
Killer Bee
Waterboy
While I think an All-Pro year is in the realm of possibilities, its long odds to be sure. If he stays healthy I think a really good year for him would be what you have as his ceiling, around 1,000 yards on the ground. Maybe 1300-1400 all purpose yards with 8-10 TDs.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
That's barely more than what Miller was giving us, and Johnson is what, the 3rd-5th highest paid RB in the game? And that's IF he's closer to his ceiling, which is a big if. Doesn't sound like smart team building to me. Especially considering you gave up a 3 time All-Pro in his prime to get him.
Killer Bee
Waterboy
I completely agree that it was a bad move. There are a lot of ifs with Johnson and on how well O'Brien incorporates him into next years offense, whatever shape it takes, which is really my point. I see a wide gamut of possibilities for Johnson. I am higher on him than you and even more so than Lucky.
Last edited:
You can get out of his contract cheaply after next season. That $$$$ could go to team building.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Like anyone else, I can't predict accurately how Johnson will perform this year, but it's unlikely to be based on last year's injuries. And as far as trying to compare him and his injuries to Green, it's a lack of understanding of Green's injury history prior to becoming a Texan. Green suffered what was reported to be a "thigh" injury in 2005 while with the Packers. He was placed on IR. What wasn't revealed is that he sustained a complete rupture of his quadriceps tendon..........an injury that has a very low return rate, especially for a running back. He came back surprisingly in 2006 eeking out an unexpected 1000 yd 4 yd/carry season. But if you looked at that season, after the week 9, his season fell off sharply yardage wise, leaving him with only ~3.3 yds/carry in the last 7 games. What was happening is that his previous quadriceps tendon repair was being stressed and breaking down. The Texans should have seen the writing on the wall before picking him up in 2007. That offseason, Green had an opportunity to rest and rehab that tendon injury, and came back stronger, though the thigh was still bothering him........the more he played, the more it was stressed and the more he compensated..............until he suffered a severe series of compensatory lateral collateral ligament, medial collateral ligament, meniscal and articular injuries to his left knee beginning in the 2nd game of the season at Carolina which forced him to miss 6 games, including the last 3 before being placed on IR in week 14. He never truly recovered from his injuries. In his 2-year tour with the Texans, it should have surprised no one that he would only play 14 games in 2 seasons. No, it is unlikely that we've picked up another Ahman Green.
Last edited:
michaelm
vox nihili
Watching the video breakdown of Johnson's skillset that was posted earlier one thing stuck out to me.
He is very good at being moved outside to a receiver position, and the highlight used as an example was an audible to an empty backfield set.
With Watson, OB has used the empty set on a regular basis. I can see value having a guy like Johnson who can line up in the backfield, then move outside and be a viable threat out there as opposed to a guy like Hyde, who isn't as adept at it.
I expect to see plenty of audibles to an empty set this season
He is very good at being moved outside to a receiver position, and the highlight used as an example was an audible to an empty backfield set.
With Watson, OB has used the empty set on a regular basis. I can see value having a guy like Johnson who can line up in the backfield, then move outside and be a viable threat out there as opposed to a guy like Hyde, who isn't as adept at it.
I expect to see plenty of audibles to an empty set this season
RGV82
Random guy
The crazy thing about the 2016 Cardinals offense, is they only had TWO players (1 WR) with more than 37 receptions that year, and David Johnson was one of them. Other than Larry Fitzgerald, David Johnson was their entire offense that year. They rotated WRs weekly due to injuries, Johnson and Fitzgerald were their only consistent players. I am hoping David Johnson regains some of his 2016 form, but with other weapons like Cooks, Fuller, Duke Johnson, etc. I would hope we have a little bit more balance from our offense. David Johnson from 2016 with 300 carries and 80 receptions was a very rare occurrence for anyone, and will likely never happen again.
RGV82
Random guy
Absolutely. You rarely have successful teams with one player dominating the offense. Balanced offenses with lots of weapons is what wins you championships. That’s often why you have players from bad teams put up huge stats, get traded, and never duplicate those numbers again. That’s why I keep saying that David Johnson will never be the same as 2016. We need to spread the ball around, and if BOB plans to use Johnson like he was used in 2016, we are doomed.
You mean like Nuk getting 1/2 of the WR targets?
RGV82
Random guy
What year are you referring to and why just include WR targets? TE and RB targets are just as important. Last year Hopkins had 150 targets, and there were over 500+ pass targets total. Not even close to 1/2. We also had a decent run game (Hyde and Duke), which did not leave Hopkins as the entire offense.
I'm talking about spreading the ball around and having a balanced offense.
1 WR getting 150 targets isn't balanced and is no way to win a championship.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The ball was spreaded pretty good. Earl already posted those stats. They did not get rid of Nuk because of his targets like a few people continue to harp on. Obrien just got too emotional because the youngster wanted a raise with three years remaining on his contract.