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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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steelbtexan said:
BB did limit the clls within the system , but it was still the basic EP system. Tell me what was Jimmy G's record running the modified EP system? Yep if you're and accurate quick decision maker the EP system will work even if it's somewhat modified. If you cant make quick decisions and aren't accurate you will get what we saw Sunday.
Click to expand...

Stats so far in 2019

Jimmy G is 69% with 739 yard with 5 TD, 4 interceptions and QBR of 96.3.

Deshuan Watson is 65% with 938 yards with 6 TD, 1 interception and a QBR of 99.9

Stats of 2018

Jimmy G: 59%, 718 yards, 5Td, 3 Int, QBR 90

Deshaun Watson: 68%, 4,165 yards, 26 TDs, 9 Int, QBR of 103

Tell me again which QB is more accurate.

I will grant you that he had his best year under BB and that year, for the 6 games he played, had a QBR of 113 and 68% accuracy but name me one player that hasn't played better under BB in NE.
 
https://twitter.com/GregRajan/status/1179423059457036289?s=20

Oddsmakers clearly don't know how the #Texans operate. From today's in-box.
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EF4nBWmWsAEMl7L


One can only wish.
 

Yeah considering I've read posts on this board that were better written and more thought out, also not being posted by someone that writes under the name bigfatdrunk, I'm going to have to question the journalistic abilities on that...….blog.

I may actually agree with some of it but someone should tell the writer that rule number one if you want people to actually take your reporting seriously then don't throw your own personal comments into the article like:

"In 2012, BOB was hired to coach Penn State (which should have been burned to the ground anyway). BOB was named the Coach of the Year by several organizations after the team went 8-4. In 2013, Penn State went a soon-to-be familiar 7-5 (well, that’s close to 9-7!), and BOB was hired to be the head coach of your Houston Texans."

or

"When hired by the Texans, O’Brien was considered to be an elite offensive mind after his time...*checks notes*...of coaching several Hall of Famers with the Patriots and getting a decent season from future colossal draft bust Christian Hackenberg."

It just makes you and your article look stupid even if you have good points. The people that already agreed with you will just keep agreeing with you and tell you right on but anyone that might have been on the fence is going to be turned off by something so amateur.
 
maverick512000 said:
Stats so far in 2019

Jimmy G is 69% with 739 yard with 5 TD, 4 interceptions and QBR of 96.3.

Deshuan Watson is 65% with 938 yards with 6 TD, 1 interception and a QBR of 99.9

Stats of 2018

Jimmy G: 59%, 718 yards, 5Td, 3 Int, QBR 90

Deshaun Watson: 68%, 4,165 yards, 26 TDs, 9 Int, QBR of 103

Tell me again which QB is more accurate.

I will grant you that he had his best year under BB and that year, for the 6 games he played, had a QBR of 113 and 68% accuracy but name me one player that hasn't played better under BB in NE.
Click to expand...

I was comparing the EP system run by Jimmy G vs the EP system run by Watson.

Relevance
 
maverick512000 said:
Yeah considering I've read posts on this board that were better written and more thought out, also not being posted by someone that writes under the name bigfatdrunk, I'm going to have to question the journalistic abilities on that...….blog.

I may actually agree with some of it but someone should tell the writer that rule number one if you want people to actually take your reporting seriously then don't throw your own personal comments into the article like:

"In 2012, BOB was hired to coach Penn State (which should have been burned to the ground anyway). BOB was named the Coach of the Year by several organizations after the team went 8-4. In 2013, Penn State went a soon-to-be familiar 7-5 (well, that’s close to 9-7!), and BOB was hired to be the head coach of your Houston Texans."

or

"When hired by the Texans, O’Brien was considered to be an elite offensive mind after his time...*checks notes*...of coaching several Hall of Famers with the Patriots and getting a decent season from future colossal draft bust Christian Hackenberg."

It just makes you and your article look stupid even if you have good points. The people that already agreed with you will just keep agreeing with you and tell you right on but anyone that might have been on the fence is going to be turned off by something so amateur.
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I get it, but with regards to the name - bigfatdrunk- is that really any different than the pseudonyms / nicknames on this board and us spewing our thoughts?

I just posted to further the discussion, not necessarily an endorsement or criticism of his article. He makes a solid point about O'Brien's historical offensive rankings.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Let's get one thing cleared up . We are not running the EP system here in Houston. Nowhere close. We're running the Bill O'Brien system.
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Let's make one thing clear, BOB would like to run the pure EP system but can't because of his QB.

He ran it with Fitz/Hoyer
 
Double Barrel said:
I get it, but with regards to the name - bigfatdrunk- is that really any different than the pseudonyms / nicknames on this board and us spewing our thoughts?

I just posted to further the discussion, not necessarily an endorsement or criticism of his article. He makes a solid point about O'Brien's historical offensive rankings.
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I would say it is different in that he is posting his article in the fashion of a traditional news article and for that your pseudonym needs to at least look like a real name. If he was just posting it on a forum such as this then the rules pretty much are "can it be read" but when you want to present it as a serious report then yeah you are expected to be held to a higher standard. His point about BoB is missing some context, at NE his point was that Brady made BoB look good. No doubt he did but the list of people Brady has made look good at NE is very long and includes almost every player and coach, an argument could be made even BB is on that list.

As far as his time at Penn state goes having any winning record was amazing for that team in those years because they had almost all their scholarships taken away, and with that most of their players, and they weren't even allowed to play in the post season even if they had gone undefeated. Not to mention that many people did want to see the whole thing "burned to the ground" and maybe rightfully so. Say what you want about his time as the Texans HC and even his time as the Pats OC but he was the savior of Penn St football.
 
TheKDog said:
Of their 40 drop backs, the Texans passed form 3+ WR sets in 30 of them. They were sacked on 6 of 30 drop backs (20%), produced a 33% success rate, 5.0 YPA, and a 68 rating.
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Makes all the sense in the world. It's not bad QBing, it's not even bad coaching. It's bad scouting. Unless BO'bs game plan is to play into the strength of the defense he faces every week.

Good catch KDog. That's some fine reporting right there.
 
Porky said:
OB is like a negative of King Midas. Everything this guy touches turns into a giant pile of excrement.

The sad thing is there is no way to fire him in season. What, you're going to fire the GM, the HC, and the OC and the defacto head of the entire team in season?

The big mistake here was giving a guy this much power that hasn't even come close to earning it. Big mistake Cal.

Cal better get his freaking head out of his anal cavity and start running this team correctly. Starting with the dismissal of OB the day after the season ends.
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But, but, but, there's a WAITING LIST for season tickets! :koolaid::texflag:
 
steelbtexan said:
Let's make one thing clear, BOB would like to run the pure EP system but can't because of his QB.

He ran it with Fitz/Hoyer
Click to expand...

If running BOB’s pure offense with Hoyer and Fitz was so great why did they only last one season? Why were there still complaints about the offense?

Personally, if BOB’s pure EP has QBs throwing 4 INTs in playoff games, he can keep that crap.
 
LMAO @ Bill O'Brien running a "pure" EP system!! LMAOOOOOOOO ... The man came from NE, had a chance to learn from the best in McDaniel and the dummy doesnt even incorporate the RBs in the passing game!! Hilarious. How many "stud" RBs has NE had in that system? 1 or 2? Or none? The scheme that McDaniels incorporates utilizes countless RB passing concepts that makes Bill OBriens version look like a 1970s high school offense. Its ludicrous that anyone would even make a claim that O'Brien is some offensive mind that has a true "system" its a bastardized, amalgamation of different philosophies - a Frankenstein of football ideologies. Here ya'll read this, its crazy the amount of disinformation that gets spit out here by certain guys who must think that the interwebs dont exist to do some basic fact checking its written in and INDY perspective the year that they thought he was going to be their coach before he chickened out.

https://fullpresscoverage.com/2018/01/18/breakdown-josh-mcdaniels-system/

What about some trends about his play calling specifically? His use of running backs should be an exciting possibility for Colts fans. McDaniels has succeeded with multiple different backs of various skill sets, and receive a healthy amount of the touches and yards in the offense, totaling an average of two-thirds of the offensive touches and 40% of the yards from scrimmage. Using the running backs in the passing game as much the running game creates plenty of opportunity for a multitude of backs on the Patriots roster, and the Colts will likely see a similar trend. This news is music to Marlon Mack’s ears, as his new head coach will use him in a multitude of ways. McDaniels has used wide receivers for around 30% of the offensive touches and tight ends for less than 10%. What does this mean for the Colts? Not much, as a lot of those numbers swayed based on the season and roster strength of the team, so Jack Doyle fans do not need to worry; the Colts’ tight end will likely be used heavily under the new system.
Click to expand...

TE integration?

Now we can’t forget about tight ends in the Patriot system, which are historically effective in New England. Although they might not get a considerable amount of volume if they are not named Gronk, when the ends are used, they are effective. Since the system focuses a lot of similar looks for run and pass plays, a tight end is critical, as they will likely be the wrinkle that defense doesn’t recognize until it is too late.
Click to expand...

Quick passing?

The most prominent thing Colts’ fans should be excited for in this new offense is the increase in quick passing routes without sacrificing the big splash plays. Tom Brady averages over a half second less from time to throw than Luck and Jacoby Brissett did in Indy, which is mostly contributed to the success of the quick one to two-second throws. These fast plays not only keep the quarterback clean, but it also forces the defense to adjust to the shorter throws, allowing the offense to run the ball and throw the ball deep with better efficiency.
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You see its not JUST about the QB "presnap reading or post snap progression" while THAT DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT, the TRUE EP that NE does INTENTIONALLY runs quick passing plays as a substitue sometimes for the run game. We dont do that here with O'Brien.

Dudes that are barking about offensive philosophy would serve the board better if it werent a subjective temper tantrum.
 
OB's Playoff results:

2014 Record: 9 - 7
Offense Rank: 21


2015 Record: 9 - 7
Offense Rank: 21
WC Game:
KC 30 - 0


2016 Record: 9-7
Offense Rank: 28
WC Game:
HOU 27 - 14 OAK

DIV Game:
NE 34 - 16


2017 Record: 4 - 12
Offense Rank: 17


2018 Record: 11-5
Offense Rank: 11
WC Game:
IND 21 - 7


2019: 2 - 2
Offense Rank: 22


5+ Seasons
Record: 44 - 40
Playoffs: 1 - 3
Avg Offense Rank: 20

6 seasons in total and not a whole lot of success. The offensive rank in 2017 was due to a change in OB's offensive playbook in order to cater to Watson's skill set....resulting in a 17th ranked NFL offense while the team went 4 - 12.

The overall results should've never put OB in a position to wear the GM hat or continuing his desire to wear the OC hat. OB hasn't come close to mastering the HC position much less needing to pile on additional responsibilities.

In 2019 we've seen zero growth in OB as a functional HC b/c the mistakes he made in 2014 are still the same mistakes he's making in 2019. His 2014 - 2019 seasons as de facto OC have remained predictable as ever while failing to incorporate TE's the entire time. His moves as sitting GM this season would assure me of one thing, OB cannot be allowed to head up the War Room for the 2020 NFL Draft. I've got a hard time thinking some folks think this man deserves another couple of seasons to pull it all together. He'll wind up getting 8 seasons and then we'll all sit back and go.....how the hail was this guy given this much time. Funny. I could swear this was exactly what many of us wrote about Rick Smith. A bad GM who was given far too much time to continue and screw things up.
 
JB said:
You and Rico are very good at pointing out valid criticisms, but like politicians you never have a valid solution
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Its not easy fix at this point anymore JB. We are so far down the rabbit hole with O'Brien that a change now would result in another 5-6 years of flux. As much as I dislike the man, I love the team enough to know that for the immediate future THIS IS IT. All I can wish is that he gets better. He has shown at times that he can morph and adapt, but more often he is just a mean, salty, stubborn coach who doesnt seem to change with the times. There is enough talent on this team to win NOW, and winning cures all. Its up to OBrien to put it all together, and while Deshuan is showing his age more now than ever (tape, regression, defensive presence) its up to the coach to read and recognize the terrain.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Its not easy fix at this point anymore JB. We are so far down the rabbit hole with O'Brien that a change now would result in another 5-6 years of flux. As much as I dislike the man, I love the team enough to know that for the immediate future THIS IS IT. All I can wish is that he gets better. He has shown at times that he can morph and adapt, but more often he is just a mean, salty, stubborn coach who doesnt seem to change with the times. There is enough talent on this team to win NOW, and winning cures all. Its up to OBrien to put it all together, and while Deshuan is showing his age more now than ever (tape, regression, defensive presence) its up to the coach to read and recognize the terrain.
Click to expand...


Not necessarily true. We can get lucky like the Rams did and snatch up a young energetic Head Coach.
 
Earl34 said:
If running BOB’s pure offense with Hoyer and Fitz was so great why did they only last one season? Why were there still complaints about the offense?

Personally, if BOB’s pure EP has QBs throwing 4 INTs in playoff games, he can keep that crap.
Click to expand...

Who was complaining? Certainly not Fitz/Hoyer.

Simply put, the playoffs stage was much to big for Hoyer.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Its not easy fix at this point anymore JB. We are so far down the rabbit hole with O'Brien that a change now would result in another 5-6 years of flux. As much as I dislike the man, I love the team enough to know that for the immediate future THIS IS IT. All I can wish is that he gets better. He has shown at times that he can morph and adapt, but more often he is just a mean, salty, stubborn coach who doesnt seem to change with the times. There is enough talent on this team to win NOW, and winning cures all. Its up to OBrien to put it all together, and while Deshuan is showing his age more now than ever (tape, regression, defensive presence) its up to the coach to read and recognize the terrain.
Click to expand...

I disagree entirely. We're currently in a similar situation to the Eagles under Chip Kelly, one guy with not enough experience and too much control. It only took 2 seasons to go from 7-9 to Superbowl champs once Philly went to a better coach (one not from Belichick's tree). It's been 6 years and even with Watson and key pieces at marque positions we're no better that we were. There IS talent on this team, plenty to make waves against the strongest teams. With pass rushers and a Quarterback anything can happen. It starts with having the coaches who can use them. The fact that this thread is as strong as ever shows that O'Brien has PROVED that he can't do it. To continue waiting is folly, and only continues this charade.
 
I've got the pitchforks if someone else brings the torches. OB has few, if any, defenders left amongst the fan base.

If you're going to be crappy at your job at least be a happy crappy at your job. This guy is a surly A-hole 95% of the time, and has worn out his welcome in Houston.

Good luck to the guy and his great family elsewhere. Maybe Dodge City needs a HS coach. It's time to clean house and blow this crap to smithereens.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
OB's Playoff results:

2014 Record: 9 - 7
Offense Rank: 21


2015 Record: 9 - 7
Offense Rank: 21
WC Game:
KC 30 - 0


2016 Record: 9-7
Offense Rank: 28
WC Game:
HOU 27 - 14 OAK

DIV Game:
NE 34 - 16


2017 Record: 4 - 12
Offense Rank: 17


2018 Record: 11-5
Offense Rank: 11
WC Game:
IND 21 - 7


2019: 2 - 2
Offense Rank: 22


5+ Seasons
Record: 44 - 40
Playoffs: 1 - 3
Avg Offense Rank: 20

6 seasons in total and not a whole lot of success. The offensive rank in 2017 was due to a change in OB's offensive playbook in order to cater to Watson's skill set....resulting in a 17th ranked NFL offense while the team went 4 - 12.

The overall results should've never put OB in a position to wear the GM hat or continuing his desire to wear the OC hat. OB hasn't come close to mastering the HC position much less needing to pile on additional responsibilities.

In 2019 we've seen zero growth in OB as a functional HC b/c the mistakes he made in 2014 are still the same mistakes he's making in 2019. His 2014 - 2019 seasons as de facto OC have remained predictable as ever while failing to incorporate TE's the entire time. His moves as sitting GM this season would assure me of one thing, OB cannot be allowed to head up the War Room for the 2020 NFL Draft. I've got a hard time thinking some folks think this man deserves another couple of seasons to pull it all together. He'll wind up getting 8 seasons and then we'll all sit back and go.....how the hail was this guy given this much time. Funny. I could swear this was exactly what many of us wrote about Rick Smith. A bad GM who was given far too much time to continue and screw things up.
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The simple answer is he was weighted down with the Anvil that was RS. I said this was a 3 yr rebuild from the time RS left. That time frame hasn't changed, but I do wish BOB would go back to the offense that Watson was successful in.
 
gafftop said:
Really other than a promotion having to do more with a sticky situation and a hire by the McNair he has really never been hired based on his previous success.

Mason Rudolph and Kyle Allen (undrafted fa with about 4 or 5 total starts in his college career)moved their team better and looked more poised than Watson. Do you think they are better talents or could it be bob?
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I feel our team is loaded with talent with much great ability then they are playing including Watson. I feel BOB us not a HC and does not provide the necessary leadership skills to utilize the talents. The game moves much too fast for him and hd makes critical mistakes every game trying to be HC, OC, QB Coach and acting GM! He refuses to relinquish any control and its killing the team! This will eventually deteriorate the locker room environment if not addressed by Cal.
 
Jerry#99 said:
I feel our team is loaded with talent with much great ability then they are playing including Watson. I feel BOB us not a HC and does not provide the necessary leadership skills to utilize the talents. The game moves much too fast for him and hd makes critical mistakes every game trying to be HC, OC, QB Coach and acting GM! He refuses to relinquish any control and its killing the team! This will eventually deteriorate the locker room environment if not addressed by Cal.
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I need to drink more?
 
JB said:
I need to drink more?
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Yes, you do, but that would be my response to everyone.

I really don't want to be rude (will anyways) but "I feel" with "much great" sounds like second language. Apologies if I'm wrong ... or if JB's intuition is more insulting lol.
 
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Max said:
I could see a scenario where BOB doesn't want to extend DW and it being the wake up call for Cal to get rid of BOB. One can hope at least.
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I could see a scenario where OB doesn't want to extend Watson at a huge sum either …. and OB could might be right.

A broken clock is right twice a day ….

Thing is , in year three we really don't know what kinda QB Watson is because the OL and the offensive scheme / playcalling have been poor for so long , its really hard to evaluate the QB under those circumstances.

We really don't know what we have …. "behind" the center.
 
Corrosion said:
I could see a scenario where OB doesn't want to extend Watson at a huge sum either …. and OB could might be right.
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With all due respect, you're not going to get anyone better than Watson behind center, regardless of price. If we had any draft picks, our needs are elsewhere. For all the negatives about Watson, the negatives about O'Brien's offense, the failure of an offense that he is crippled by - Watson has shown poise, character, adaptability, respect for and from his teammates, and near Manning level commitment. He's also fast, elusive, incredibly accurate (THIS is the major attribute), huge arm, 3 years pro with praise from every source possible, and can win 'in spite of'. Also 'in spite of' has only praised his offensive line and coaches, and is quite incredible at not turning the ball over - most seeming to come from "Rex Grossman" type throws (3rd down punts), and not from his million hits in and around the pocket.
 
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Guy ruins franchise QB.

Guy thinks franchise QB isn't worth keeping.


I could see it happening. God that would be the final straw. As it stands it'd be a miracle if I even last that long as a fan of this team if that guy is still around.
 
Corrosion said:
I could see a scenario where OB doesn't want to extend Watson at a huge sum either …. and OB could might be right.

A broken clock is right twice a day ….

Thing is , in year three we really don't know what kinda QB Watson is because the OL and the offensive scheme / playcalling have been poor for so long , its really hard to evaluate the QB under those circumstances.

We really don't know what we have …. "behind" the center.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention that Corrosion b/c in year 6 we still have no idea what kind of HC/OC/GM OB is or could be. One thing is for certain......no way I get behind OB letting Watson walk and him getting yet another QB to coach-down.
 
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Did anyone else just happen to listen to Greg Cosell on the Sean Salisbury show?? He gave some really insightful commentary regarding what he see's as far as Deshauns struggles and the system itself. He is saying that Deshuan's mechanical issues (not planting the back foot and delivering strong throws, mainly - and im sorry im going off of memory i think there was somthing else) seems to be what is causing his biggest issues throwing off the timing of the entire play(s). He says that since Deshuan has made so many ridiculous plays, and has done some impressive stuff already that many feel he's like a 10 year vet. He states that for this particular system (im guessing he's talking about the EP) that it takes a QB 4 complete years to "truly master it"

Sean Salisbury then asks him about the system here and Cosell made an interesting comment regarding the iso routes that get run mainly here .. those longer routes that rely on your receiver beating his man. He loves Hopkins and says usually he will, but its the NFL. Sean asks why dont the Texans look around the league to other successful offensive teams and try to see if any of those concepts might help Deshaun, Cosell says that he doesnt know what goes on in the Texans house, but he did say that Kyle Shanahan watches offensive film on the Patriots EVERY SINGLE WEEK. He states that the TExans COULD entertain the idea of running different combination routes as he calls them and take advantage of the mismatches those tend to create vs man or zone coverages.

I hope someone may find the true audio because Im not doing it any justice, but i found it revealing beyond the surface level stuff that has been discussed so far. I cut out right before they started to talk about the coming matchup with the Falcons so maybe someone else can finish the thought.
 
Scooter said:
I disagree entirely. We're currently in a similar situation to the Eagles under Chip Kelly, one guy with not enough experience and too much control. It only took 2 seasons to go from 7-9 to Superbowl champs once Philly went to a better coach (one not from Belichick's tree). It's been 6 years and even with Watson and key pieces at marque positions we're no better that we were. There IS talent on this team, plenty to make waves against the strongest teams. With pass rushers and a Quarterback anything can happen. It starts with having the coaches who can use them. The fact that this thread is as strong as ever shows that O'Brien has PROVED that he can't do it. To continue waiting is folly, and only continues this charade.
Click to expand...

I thought that too for a while, but think about it. New coach, new system. For grins and giggles say we get Eric Bienemy as coach. Well thats a completely different offense. At the very least a one year curve. Best case year two you have it down well enough to compete. Is RAC still around? Whats the defense look like? Now you can include the background noise of contracts. Who is the GM at this point? Some roster deficiencies caused by overpaying trades will cause some draft turmoil for a few years (yes SteelB I know I know - we have x amount of 3rd rounders and X amount of 4th rounders and a 2nd rounder - point remains especially when you look at hit rate % for each individual draft slot - I digress)

So it depends. This team could turn things around super quick but it would be with a guy that many (even myself to a certain degree) would not like. That is Josh McDaniels. Chill Chill dont meme me to death yet listen. The skeleton for the EP is here, everything necessary to run it - McDaniels could then implement winning concepts and offensive discipline and hit the ground running. Scheme is what creates a quick turnaround commensurate to talent level IMO. Im ready to move on from the whole debacle of Broncos SOUTH AND Patriots SOUTH - and create our own identity, but damn man we're 17 years in. NOt even one AFC CG. Sucks to be trapped in limbo.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Did anyone else just happen to listen to Greg Cosell on the Sean Salisbury show?? He gave some really insightful commentary regarding what he see's as far as Deshauns struggles and the system itself. He is saying that Deshuan's mechanical issues (not planting the back foot and delivering strong throws, mainly - and im sorry im going off of memory i think there was somthing else) seems to be what is causing his biggest issues throwing off the timing of the entire play(s). He says that since Deshuan has made so many ridiculous plays, and has done some impressive stuff already that many feel he's like a 10 year vet. He states that for this particular system (im guessing he's talking about the EP) that it takes a QB 4 complete years to "truly master it"

Sean Salisbury then asks him about the system here and Cosell made an interesting comment regarding the iso routes that get run mainly here .. those longer routes that rely on your receiver beating his man. He loves Hopkins and says usually he will, but its the NFL. Sean asks why dont the Texans look around the league to other successful offensive teams and try to see if any of those concepts might help Deshaun, Cosell says that he doesnt know what goes on in the Texans house, but he did say that Kyle Shanahan watches offensive film on the Patriots EVERY SINGLE WEEK. He states that the TExans COULD entertain the idea of running different combination routes as he calls them and take advantage of the mismatches those tend to create vs man or zone coverages.

I hope someone may find the true audio because Im not doing it any justice, but i found it revealing beyond the surface level stuff that has been discussed so far. I cut out right before they started to talk about the coming matchup with the Falcons so maybe someone else can finish the thought.
Click to expand...

So basically it's not the Patriots ep system at all
 
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