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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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mussop said:
As much as I hate OB this loss is on Watson.
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I think Watson & O'Brian have to share the blame.

O'Brian made a terrible call with the Hopkins trick play. He also had another wasted challenge & timeout. The team had 7 penalties for 81 yards.

Even if it was more Watson's fault I find I'm more forgiving of him because when all is said & done yesterday was only the 27th game he has played in the NFL. He does not have even 2 full seasons of games played.
 
steelbtexan said:
I agree with you on this

BOB should put in alot of things Watson's comfortable with like his college offense.
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I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or deliberately obtuse. No one is calling for BOB to implement a college offense. Is Andy Reid running a college offense?

With the Rams and even the 49ers, they speed up the tempo to get to the LOS and are talking to the young QBs until the QB headsets are turned off around twelve seconds to go. That’s another simple example of how you can help a young QB.

Seems to me, you and BOB are more interested in the purity of the precious EP system than in winning football games.
 
amazing80 said:
It doesn't have to be his college offense. It can be a version of the WCO or an Air Raid. Stop being ridiculous.
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I'm not being ridiculous at all.

Being ridiculous would be asking Watson to go from the EP system to the WC system in season. Just let Watson play in the offense he's most comfortable in and let the chips fall where they may.
 
maverick512000 said:
I've got to say Steel that it is hard to make an argument for BoB's offense being good because not only has it not worked but even the QBs BoB has picked it hasn't worked with. Lets remove Watson from the equation as that was clearly the guy RS wanted, I'll even concede that Osweiler was an RS guy. Hoyer, Mallet and especially Savage were all BoB though. Hoyer you say he was just a bridge, fine. Mallet, however, he went out of his way to get and the guy didn't even last a season. The most damning evidence though is Savage, three years riding the bench being neck deep in studying and learning the BoB system and he looked decent for like what two games? Against teams that had planned and schemed for Osweiler as QB. Now you can say Savage just didn't have any talent, ok fine than why was he here for 3 years? Why keep pouring time and effort into a guy that clearly wasn't fit to even be a 2nd string QB much less the main guy.

We drafted Savage in the third round so it wasn't like he was just some scrub we took hoping that he could put his helmet on the right way. Third round QBs are a project sure but it was a project that was worked on for 3 years. The guy spent more time riding the bench than the entire rest of his NFL career combined. Pocket passers can't seem to make it work, game managers can't make it work, gun slingers can't make it work, what kind of QB can make it work? A guy that calls the whole thing from the line like Manning? So basically Watson has to be his own OC? What the hell kind of system is that to ask a QB to use, rookie or otherwise? That's not a talent thing that's a personal thing, Manning could do it not because the system was good but because Manning himself was so damn good at reading defenses.
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Agreed, BOB is asking Watson to be as smart as Brady/Manning. Not gonna happen.
 
Earl34 said:
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or deliberately obtuse. No one is calling for BOB to implement a college offense. Is Andy Reid running a college offense?

With the Rams and even the 49ers, they speed up the tempo to get to the LOS and are talking to the young QBs until the QB headsets are turned off around twelve seconds to go. That’s another simple example of how you can help a young QB.

Seems to me, you and BOB are more interested in the purity of the precious EP system than in winning football games.
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Nope, I just want BOB to go back to running the offense he ran in Watson's rookie yr where Watson was so successful.
 
Being smart has nothing to do with it. Watson read blitzes his rookie year, moved well in the pocket, was accurate downfield, and threw in the middle of the field. He didn't fall out of bed and forget how to play QB. OB is teaching him how to be this shitty. OB has a track record of it.
 
TheKDog said:
I think Watson could run kubiaks offense brilliantly
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Agreed...but really...I think Watson could run most any offense brilliantly, as long as the coaching, scheme and playcalling dont shackle him.

I hear a lot about the "EP system" being the problem. Im not sure this is the case. The EP system (like most systems) is just a set of verbiage to call a play. I actually *like* the EP system because of its simplicity and use of concepts.

The problem is the scheme...or lack thereof. There is so much speed and talent on the offense now that there are no excuses. The line should be at least average, at least one receiver should be running wide open and the defense shouldnt know the location of every hot read before the snap.
 
amazing80 said:
Being smart has nothing to do with it. Watson read blitzes his rookie year, moved well in the pocket, was accurate downfield, and threw in the middle of the field. He didn't fall out of bed and forget how to play QB. OB is teaching him how to be this shitty. OB has a track record of it.
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He was running an offense he was familiar with and one they should go back too IMHO.
 
Earl34 said:
You keep mentioning the EP offense. I would counter that running the EP offense does not mean you stay in the shotgun formation 90% of the time.

There are things in the EP offense to simplify the game for a young QB. Take a look at how Andy Reid has integrated many of the Air Raid concepts into his WC offense to make things easier for Mahomes. Is it too much to ask for O’Brien to do something similar with his precious EP system?
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& yet ironically The only reason why Reid & Mahomes **** works so well is b/c Mahomes has shown the ability to hit you deep CONSISTENTLY. Teams fear that more than anything & if you hit a team deep a couple of times it opens up all that **** underneath.

It's not the EP sytstem or any "system" to begin with.....They're in shotgun 90% of the time b/c DW4 is comfy there & its what he was in 95% of the time when he was at Clemson. Every system utilized in the NFL works..its the qb that elevates that system & DW4 by his own admission yesterday failed in elevating the offense yesterday. If he hits those 2 deep throws for TD's, not only do we score 14 more points In all liklihood, but its very likely it knocks Carolina out of that cover 4 zone defense they ran ALL GAME.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Steelers with Ben

Saints- Brees

Rivers

Rodgers etc...

Wilson

This is what you have to learn if you want to be a top level QB.
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Wrong none of those teams are asking their QB to be as like or even as "smart" as Brady or Manning. They are creating schemes that take advantage of their QBs particular strengths and tries to shore up their weaknesses. Nobody asks Brees or Rivers to be duel threat QBs, nobody asks Newton or Mahomes to be a pocket passer yet according to you BoB is asking Watson to be Brady or Manning. If that is so then you are saying that BoB cannot design a scheme to fit Watson's strengths and shore up his weaknesses. In other words BoBs schemes only work if you get the perfect QB to fit it. Sometimes that does happen, look at Reid with Mahomes, but given that BoB thought that Hoyer, Mallet and Savage were also worth keeping and pouring resources into does BoB even know what kind of QB he needs to make it work? I'm seriously asking because so far none of them have INCLUDING Brady.
 
maverick512000 said:
Wrong none of those teams are asking their QB to be as like or even as "smart" as Brady or Manning. They are creating schemes that take advantage of their QBs particular strengths and tries to shore up their weaknesses. Nobody asks Brees or Rivers to be duel threat QBs, nobody asks Newton or Mahomes to be a pocket passer yet according to you BoB is asking Watson to be Brady or Manning. If that is so then you are saying that BoB cannot design a scheme to fit Watson's strengths and shore up his weaknesses. In other words BoBs schemes only work if you get the perfect QB to fit it. Sometimes that does happen, look at Reid with Mahomes, but given that BoB thought that Hoyer, Mallet and Savage were also worth keeping and pouring resources into does BoB even know what kind of QB he needs to make it work? I'm seriously asking because so far none of them have INCLUDING Brady.
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They ask those guys to read defenses and make OL calls.

BOB has proven he can design an offense Watson can be successful in. Look at Watson's rookie yr.
 
maverick512000 said:
Wrong none of those teams are asking their QB to be as like or even as "smart" as Brady or Manning. They are creating schemes that take advantage of their QBs particular strengths and tries to shore up their weaknesses. Nobody asks Brees or Rivers to be duel threat QBs, nobody asks Newton or Mahomes to be a pocket passer yet according to you BoB is asking Watson to be Brady or Manning. If that is so then you are saying that BoB cannot design a scheme to fit Watson's strengths and shore up his weaknesses. In other words BoBs schemes only work if you get the perfect QB to fit it. Sometimes that does happen, look at Reid with Mahomes, but given that BoB thought that Hoyer, Mallet and Savage were also worth keeping and pouring resources into does BoB even know what kind of QB he needs to make it work? I'm seriously asking because so far none of them have INCLUDING Brady.
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I think you are correct in what you are alluding to. BOBs scheme is subpar and his playcalling is chronically horrendous (with frustrating moments of brilliance that keep him employed for some reason).
 
It's gone national (via PDS)....

If the players are expected to perform at a high level on game day, Houston Texans head coach Bill O'Brien needs to clean up his performance also.

Through four weeks the Houston Texans are sitting at 2 and 2 in a four-way tie atop the AFC South. When every play counts in a season that only has 16 regular-season games, the Texans need all hands on deck....
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Not much in there that hasn't been said here, but it's hitting coast to coast now, it seems.

https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/news/...78gJmcHYBTzhUb_7yjFcKPVChNcFAcxa86KBT_VzcWihQ
 
Lucky said:
Let's keep this simple. O'Brien has the tools he has. He has to make it work. If it's not working, it's on O'Brien. Then, you try to find someone else to make it work.

That's how it should be. I don't know if that's how it will be.
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You mean keep it simple as in HELPING your quarterback understand how to BEAT a cover 4??? You mean a coach who is in the headset helping him decipher TRUE quarters coverage vs a shell deep 4??? No not that. Okay you mean keep it simple in the terms of just running the ball?? LOL I mean thats a pretty good way to beat cover 4. Deshaun did his part in trying to overcome the defense Carolina was running in that he kept dropping it off, more check downs yesterday than in any other Watson game to date, and thats all he could really do and yet people here are saying he cant read a defense or make the appropriate throws. Cover 4 is designed to take away big throws, and somehow OBrien played right into the teeth of the defense??? Why didnt he even TRY one of the sets from the previous week?? Run those trips/bunch/stacks and watch the defenders scramble around making a decision on whether to stay at home in a balanced D or lose shell integrity to accomodate the formation. This is all high school sht man. A professional team should not be struggling with these concepts.
 
Mr teX said:
He sprinkled "concepts" from Clemson's offense in his rookie year, we didn't run an entirely new offense. I'm also fairly certain we have not abandoned those same concepts in the years since.
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Not sure I agree with this, right after that rookie year the offense scheme looked more like the one used by Hoyer and Osweiler just with a QB that actually had talent. We may not have completely abandoned it but it sure as hell was changed up to more fit the offense BoB likes to run.
 
Uncle Rico said:
You mean keep it simple as in HELPING your quarterback understand how to BEAT a cover 4??? You mean a coach who is in the headset helping him decipher TRUE quarters coverage vs a shell deep 4??? No not that. Okay you mean keep it simple in the terms of just running the ball?? LOL I mean thats a pretty good way to beat cover 4. Deshaun did his part in trying to overcome the defense Carolina was running in that he kept dropping it off, more check downs yesterday than in any other Watson game to date, and thats all he could really do and yet people here are saying he cant read a defense or make the appropriate throws. Cover 4 is designed to take away big throws, and somehow OBrien played right into the teeth of the defense??? Why didnt he even TRY one of the sets from the previous week?? Run those trips/bunch/stacks and watch the defenders scramble around making a decision on whether to stay at home in a balanced D or lose shell integrity to accomodate the formation. This is all high school sht man. A professional team should not be struggling with these concepts.
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Is it really struggling though? Texanstalk tells me that BoB doesn't "scheme" guys open but we've seen in every game this year guys running wide open quite alot actually & the difference in wins and losses for us has largely come down to whether or not we consistently hit on those. The only game where this wasn't the case was the saints game...& even in that game, there were some wide open shots we missed on that could've made a difference.

It's not that DW4 can't read a defense..It's not that he's not processing fast enough It's DW4's accuracy that has done us in more often than not imo. For his part, BoB needs to do a better job of getting him some easy rhythm throws. Also, whomever that guy is we brought in as qb coach from Seattle, he needs to start earning his money b/c DW4's mechanics are probably the biggest reason for his accuracy slipping. He tends to overstride when launches deep....my opinion of course.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm not being ridiculous at all.

Being ridiculous would be asking Watson to go from the EP system to the WC system in season. Just let Watson play in the offense he's most comfortable in and let the chips fall where they may.
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If OB wants to help Watson.....simple, go back to the offensive gameplans created for Watson's first 7 games. He still has them I bet. I think the OL and skill positions are light years better than the players available in Watson's first 7 games so I could only conclude the results would be better.

Now for the reality. OB would never entertain this idea b/c if Watson and the offense suddenly go on tear what kind of light does that shed on OB's offense? It would be a gut punch that screams his system is not an NFL scheme and possibly not even a successful college scheme. No way OB does this.....the risk of the teams success and his failure would be out there for all to see.
 
Mr teX said:
He sprinkled "concepts" from Clemson's offense in his rookie year, we didn't run an entirely new offense. I'm also fairly certain we have not abandoned those same concepts in the years since.
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Disagree. The offense is night and day compared to Watson’s rookie year.

If we didn’t have a Watson run or other heriocs I could swear I still see Fitzpatrick/Hoyer/Mallet/Savage back there.

Very different in my opinion.
 
maverick512000 said:
Not sure I agree with this, right after that rookie year the offense scheme looked more like the one used by Hoyer and Osweiler just with a QB that actually had talent. We may not have completely abandoned it but it sure as hell was changed up to more fit the offense BoB likes to run.
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All these fakes DW4 does after the snap of the ball...Coutee/Stills running that motion right as DW4 is taking the snap..The zone read.....all that stuff debuted in DW4's rookie year & we NEVER saw all that window dressing with Hoyer, OZ or any of the other qb's before him..Damn sure didn't see a zone read with any of those guys either.

Now, The ROUTE TREE is probably the same...we still see the deep over alot when NUK is in the slot..lots of curls & stuff...perhaps they need to flip the tree..run more rub routes..but the concepts are the same.
 
TexansBull said:
Disagree. The offense is night and day compared to Watson’s rookie year.

If we didn’t have a Watson run or other heriocs I could swear I still see Fitzpatrick/Hoyer/Mallet/Savage back there.

Very different in my opinion.
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It only looks night & day to you guys b/c of the results...He was a revelation in his 1st 7 games & alot of that was him ad libing and taking off at the 1st sign of pressure..common for rooks. Since then, he's not able to pull houdini's as much, the book is out, defenses have conspired to keep him from escaping & what you're seeing is a young qb struggling to adjust...brilliance 1 game, WTF the next.
 
What the heck does not processing fast enough even mean? I see no problem with him reading defenses and throwing to open receivers if obrien actually calls a good play that schemes someone open rather than slow developing iso routes
 
amazing80 said:
Being smart has nothing to do with it. Watson read blitzes his rookie year, moved well in the pocket, was accurate downfield, and threw in the middle of the field. He didn't fall out of bed and forget how to play QB. OB is teaching him how to be this shitty. OB has a track record of it.
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Then he got Bill Obrien'd now look at him.
 
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO @ "what you're seeing is a young QB struggling to adjust" .. "the book is out on Deshaun Watson" LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The book is out on the Bill OBriens EP whatever the fk he's running, and its been out for 6 years. Just look at the goddamn rankings man, why convolute and obfuscate?? Bill OBriens offenses suck, always have always will and its not personnel driven!!

For the most part everyone who actually likes WAtson has been critical of his play yesterday, but the spotlight is not on WAtson, but on the plays WAtson is asked to run.

Dude gets pressured on 60% of the passing downs and its his fault because he doesnt see the blitz and doesnt get rid of the ball in .4 seconds. Maybe the so called "HOT" read should actually know he's a "HOT" read and you know, look up notice the defense, know his role, look for the ball, instead of just sprinting to the sideline or 20 yards down the seam.

You know if you want to criticize Watson thats cool, plenty to nitpick about, but when a guy does that and finds no time to throw in that OBrien is handicapping the kid, then its just hot air coming from an OBrien Fluffer to me.

Not fair that OBrien Haters (Me! ME!) are supposed to remain level and acknowledge that Watson has flaws and tendencies, but that OBrien is some kind of savant or that his "system" is infallible.

Then "they" wonder why the Haters (Me!) go to the lengths they do to expose the guy.
 
In terms of sacks, he's holding the ball too long far too often. Which begs the question, why is he holding the ball? The logical answer is nobody is open and/or routes are slow developing. On TV, the camera follows the ball, so it's difficult to tell, but that's my logical take.

So, given that I'm making that logical leap, the question is why? But I do know who. BOB is responsible for the schematics and the individual play calls.

All I know is that BOB is "Lucking" and "Carring" Watson with this offense and something needs to change stat.
 
I know that 610 is a mouthpiece for the team and I don't listen much since I'm in Tempe (listen to 790 on Iheart) but who is 610 blaming? Are they saying anything about BOB, his inept offense, time management and ridiculous challenges? Just curious because I dont know how you dont roast him at his point
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If OB wants to help Watson.....simple, go back to the offensive gameplans created for Watson's first 7 games. He still has them I bet. I think the OL and skill positions are light years better than the players available in Watson's first 7 games so I could only conclude the results would be better.

Now for the reality. OB would never entertain this idea b/c if Watson and the offense suddenly go on tear what kind of light does that shed on OB's offense? It would be a gut punch that screams his system is not an NFL scheme and possibly not even a successful college scheme. No way OB does this.....the risk of the teams success and his failure would be out there for all to see.
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I do agree with you about BoB not doing this but I disagree that it would expose anything. Why, because ultimately what matters in the league is wins and rings. BB has made plenty of stupid moves during his time as NE HC but no one really mentions or cares about them because he could make a pair of knuckles out of all his SB rings. If BoB completely changed everything and the Texans started winning no one would be talking about how it showed how bad the previous scheme was, well a few would but mostly everyone would be talking about how much a genius he is for figuring out what needed to be changed and then changing it.

Ultimately I think the problem is that BoB doesn't actually think there is a problem. There are to many, legit reasons that you can come up with for why something goes wrong. If you take each one by themselves then yeah all those reasons make sense but taken as a whole the system doesn't work with any kind of consistent results. You can say that's on Watson, and some of it is, but ultimately the buck stops with the HC. If the QB is screwing up the system either get a new QB or get a new system. Watson is to good, not to mention even Cal would blow a gasket, to get rid of so that just leaves one option if there is to be any hope of real success.
 
Haha

You guys with all these long, well intentioned, well informed, well thought out, meanigful posts on and on on this board and yet we get the answer after EVERY game.

"Gotta get better, gotta coach better"

That's it! Nothing else needed! What more do you want??
 
So we've gone from: do anything to protect Watson, who is the future, and with obrien given full control he now can set the franchise right by overpaying for tunsil and stills and tytus and Max to protect the QB he's always been looking for.

To: Watson is dumb and let him get injured and move on

Because of one game where obrien called a Hopkins pass in the redzone that cost the game.

If I were writing a movie script i would think no character could be this believably dumb and I would rewrite
 
TheKDog said:
So we've gone from: do anything to protect Watson, who is the future, and with obrien given full control he now can set the franchise right by overpaying for tunsil and stills and tytus and Max to protect the QB he's always been looking for.

To: Watson is dumb and let him get injured and move on

Because of one game where obrien called a Hopkins pass in the redzone that cost the game.

If I were writing a movie script i would think no character could be this believably dumb and I would rewrite
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Truth is stranger than fiction.
 
TexansBull said:
But that wasn’t OBs offense. It was someone’s else.
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He was smart enough to use it.

He needs to be smart enough to go back to it since his QB isn't smart enough to run BOB's offense correctly.
OptimisticTexan said:
If OB wants to help Watson.....simple, go back to the offensive gameplans created for Watson's first 7 games. He still has them I bet. I think the OL and skill positions are light years better than the players available in Watson's first 7 games so I could only conclude the results would be better.

Now for the reality. OB would never entertain this idea b/c if Watson and the offense suddenly go on tear what kind of light does that shed on OB's offense? It would be a gut punch that screams his system is not an NFL scheme and possibly not even a successful college scheme. No way OB does this.....the risk of the teams success and his failure would be out there for all to see.
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Gotta disagree

That the EP System isn't right for Watson isn't an indictment of BOB or the use of the EP system. Many QB's have run this system to great success.
 
steelbtexan said:
He was smart enough to use it.

He needs to be smart enough to go back to it since his QB isn't smart enough to run BOB's offense correctly.


Gotta disagree

That the EP System isn't right for Watson isn't an indictment of BOB or the use of the EP system. Many QB's have run this system to great success.
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The EP system is just fine for Watson. The scheme isnt right for him...or for anybody apparently, given the QB carousel we have had here. Watson misses open reads at times...thats well documented. However, there is a problem when an OC *knows* the OL is having trouble blocking and there are new guys at RB who do not completely understand their responsibilities, but they still call long developing plays and the defense knows *exactly* where to be to snuff out the hot read. That offense last night was a mess. Every other week its a mess. Its been a mess for 7 years (OB era +1 year), and there has only been one constant.

We spent a kings ransom to protect our investment in Watson. It really needs to start paying off soon.
 
steelbtexan said:
He was smart enough to use it.

He needs to be smart enough to go back to it since his QB isn't smart enough to run BOB's offense correctly.


Gotta disagree

That the EP System isn't right for Watson isn't an indictment of BOB or the use of the EP system. Many QB's have run this system to great success.
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My opinion is you are wrong.

OB has been through a dozen or so QBs and no one - no one has been able to run it. Fitzpatrick couldn’t do it with success. Dude is Ivy League.

A QB like Watson who is smart enough to run the offense can’t.

Why - because OBs offense doesn’t work. Never has. Never will. An OB offense doesn’t exist. Put it up there with Unicorns, Leprechauns, and Rick Smith hitting on a middle round draft pick. These are fairy tales. They don’t exist.

One thing is true.

A HC change can help DW. It worked for Goff. It worked for Peyton Manning. (Twice.) It worked for Alex Smith. It is working for Jamies Winston.

This isn’t on DW. It’s is on OB.
 
Uncle Rico said:
For the most part everyone who actually likes WAtson has been critical of his play yesterday, but the spotlight is not on WAtson, but on the plays WAtson is asked to run.
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Fair enough, this is the fire BoB thread....

Uncle Rico said:
Dude gets pressured on 60% of the passing downs and its his fault because he doesnt see the blitz and doesnt get rid of the ball in .4 seconds. Maybe the so called "HOT" read should actually know he's a "HOT" read and you know, look up notice the defense, know his role, look for the ball, instead of just sprinting to the sideline or 20 yards down the seam.
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It has been shown on a number of plays in multiple games that this has been happening & DW4 hasn't gotten the ball out to those guys for whatever reason.....Lance pointed this out this morning...Wade Smith has spoke on this, even Seth Payne has spoken a little on this...& he's the most critical of BoB.

Uncle Rico said:
You know if you want to criticize Watson thats cool, plenty to nitpick about, but when a guy does that and finds no time to throw in that OBrien is handicapping the kid, then its just hot air coming from an OBrien Fluffer to me.
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And when a guy lights it up 1 game & is hailed as "jesus in cleats" by you & others on here and then turns around & mostly stinks it up in another game & ya'll come on here & minimizes his bad play to "bad coaching" or him being "handicapped" in the same scheme that he just lit it up in...then it comes off as agenda & hot air from an BoB "hater".

Uncle Rico said:
Not fair that OBrien Haters (Me! ME!) are supposed to remain level and acknowledge that Watson has flaws and tendencies, but that OBrien is some kind of savant or that his "system" is infallible.
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"not fair" what are you 4 years old? Come off the agenda that b/c there are a few of us in here that can acknowledge DW4 still has a ways to go as a qb that that somehow means we think BoB is an offensive "savant" & his system is "infallible". It isn't black and white you know. DW4 can still need work to get to top qb status and BoB's system can be flawed; BOTH CAN BE TRUE.

The thing with you guys is you're so closed off to the fact that DW4 has a few real issues..Like, it's inconcievable for you to imagine a scenario where some or most of what's going on is on him. This debate so much reminds me of the "all we need is a qb to be competitive" discussions we used to have on here.
 
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