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Rookie Mini-Camp

281Texan said:
Eagles GM Howie Roseman says Dillard will strictly play LT. It’s crazy how the eagles are good at developing OL and they don’t ask their players to play all 5 spots along the OL, instead just master 1.

That’s probably why Gaine didn’t make a move. Dillard is an exceptional LT, and will likely have a very long career in this league, but he’s unproven at the other spots. I am so tired of versatility. Why not just draft studs that excel at one position instead of being mediocre at 3?
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I get this on one level. Pretty sure if Howard is our best LT he’s going to play that position. But in the end this versatility thing is just trying to keep your five best available OL on the field when the ever present injuries occur. We’ve had backups I didn’t want to see as backups much less as forced in starters.
 
Dejaview said:
I get this on one level. Pretty sure if Howard is our best LT he’s going to play that position. But in the end this versatility thing is just trying to keep your five best available OL on the field when the ever present injuries occur. We’ve had backups I didn’t want to see as backups much less as forced in starters.
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Honestly though, how many players are they going to ruin by trying to teach them everything on day 1?

Why not try and train up 5 quality starters for your 5 starting positions, and out of players who lose out, train yourself a swing tackle and someone who is versatile in the interior?

We're putting the cart before the horse here, there's no point having a load of Jack of all trades if you perenially fail to field a master LT, for instance.
 
welsh texan said:
Honestly though, how many players are they going to ruin by trying to teach them everything on day 1?

Why not try and train up 5 quality starters for your 5 starting positions, and out of players who lose out, train yourself a swing tackle and someone who is versatile in the interior?

We're putting the cart before the horse here, there's no point having a load of Jack of all trades if you perenially fail to field a master LT, for instance.
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WelshTexan, that is so well said. Thank you. It's another one of those posts that I wish I'd written. So very true!
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
What I posted about their cross training is readily available. Feel free to get us exact numbers if you want to try to :uprights:
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Looks like this is common practice for the most part around the league. My hope is that the cross training for our rookies is just an introductory portion to make them aware of the position’s job in relation to them. And not trying to absorb the playbook as a whole and splitting the practice reps equally amongst the positions. 80/20 or 90/10 split fine with me. Especially at this point in the offseason.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Looks like this is common practice for the most part around the league. My hope is that the cross training for our rookies is just an introductory portion to make them aware of the position’s job in relation to them. And not trying to absorb the playbook as a whole and splitting the practice reps equally amongst the positions. 80/20 or 90/10 split fine with me. Especially at this point in the offseason.
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This is exactly why teams cross train...........understanding how the Olinemen "next" to them function gives them a better understanding of what they can expect at their position and what is expected of them .........especially important since the Oline is supposed to function as a well-synced unit. This is not to even mention that most teams never feel confident that they have enough Olinemen when injuries hit. Teams would love to carry 10 Olinemen, but because of needs at other positions, they will seldom carry more than 8...........that does not make for the ability to duplicate specialty backup positions 1-for-1 for each position.
 
beerlover said:
Seems y’all are implying Eagles/Howie Roseman WASTED a pick, trading up for Dillard when in fact Howard was higher on Texans board. Can anyone officially confirm this?

Obviously Eagles graded him higher but let’s say they stood pat and Dillard was still on the board @ 23. How would this board/fan base react when the pick came out as Tytus Howard instead? More or less angry?

Tells me, Texans starting OL will consist of the most versatile, not best specialist players.
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It's a false narrative.

McClain initially reported the Texans tried to trade up for Dillard. A few days later the spin machine set in and he said the Texans "targeted Howard all along" whatever that means
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This is exactly why teams cross train...........understanding how the Olinemen "next" to them function gives them a better understanding of what they can expect at their position and what is expected of them .........especially important since the Oline is supposed to function as a well-synced unit. This is not to even mention that most teams never feel confident that they have enough Olinemen when injuries hit. Teams would love to carry 10 Olinemen, but because of needs at other positions, they will seldom carry more than 8...........that does not make for the ability to duplicate specialty backup positions 1-for-1 for each position.
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Tell me how many OL did Gibbs try to cross train?

He did a pretty good job of training OL. Much more so than Devlin.
 
TheKDog said:
It's a false narrative.

McClain initially reported the Texans tried to trade up for Dillard. A few days later the spin machine set in and he said the Texans "targeted Howard all along" whatever that means
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Do you have an article that where McClain says we were trying to trade up? I listen to waaay too much sports radio, and read just about everything related to the draft starting in January and I remember McClain specifically stating we wouldn’t trade up for Dillard

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...keaways-from-Texans-first-day-of-13797251.php

This is just one example, I remember him stating the same things in the article above predraft on 610 multiple times.
 
Rookie Mini-Camp Observations Day One



Kahale Warring what’s the clear-cut winner of day one at Texans rookie minicamp. Warring showed his athletic ability to separate and over power linebackers in coverage creating clear windows for the quarterbacks to throw him the football. Like most rookies, Warring has to learn how to finish plays and be consistent when the ball is in the air. The most exciting part of Warring’s game is the fact that he has not played much football in his career, but he was the most dominating presence on the field during rookie minicamp.

There will be plenty of discussion on where Tytus Howard’s selection in the NFL Draft and if it was worth it for the Texans. Howard showed good footwork and pass protection going against Davin Bellamy throughout the practice seeing Howard’s movement skills were assuring and it showed his athleticism that he possesses or left tackle there’s a long way to go for Howard especially when pads are put on, but it was a strong showing for the athletic left tackle.

Max Scharping looks like an offense lineman nothing flashy but a consistent presence in everything he does on the football field. He has some small technical aspects he needs to correct, his stance, pass protection drops and cleaning up his hands. Despite those minor issues, they are easy to adjust, and that alone should help Scharping handle the NFL game. Scharping handled pass protection duties well from the right tackle position and kept his quarterback clean during the team sessions of practice.
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https://footballmaven.io/texans/new...g-opening-day-of-work-M-qQQImViUSxaonskIRhXw/

https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1126934176828141568?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
 
TheRealJoker said:
Looks like this is common practice for the most part around the league. My hope is that the cross training for our rookies is just an introductory portion to make them aware of the position’s job in relation to them. And not trying to absorb the playbook as a whole and splitting the practice reps equally amongst the positions. 80/20 or 90/10 split fine with me. Especially at this point in the offseason.
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Being right- or left handed has something to do with it. I was normally a RT but was equally bad at LT. Of course, in our system both ends normally played in tight. In the interest of having a well-syncked unit, you don't ask tackles to fill in at guard or have a TE play center.
 
O’Brien mentions that Tytus Howard will get plenty of work at left tackle. Mentions Howard can work right tackle and guard if need be. Also, Max Scharping can play both tackle spots. He has been impressed with how much they have picked up with the offense. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


O’Brien mentions that during the draft process that they worked to see if Kahale Warring would be a willing blocker at the NFL level. They liked how he handled it during the workout. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


Don’t know where Kahale Warring will end up but strong first day. Physically imposing presence out there from the tight end position. One to watch moving forward. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


Also, Tytus Howard is a good mover with his feet and Max Scharping has a few things to clean up but can see why he was successful in college. Long way to go but easy to see why the #Texans made them their selections.

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


Lonnie Johnson Jr. is a long strider and can recover well in coverage. Big frame for a cornerback but movement skills are there. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019
 
zshawn10 said:
O’Brien mentions that Tytus Howard will get plenty of work at left tackle. Mentions Howard can work right tackle and guard if need be. Also, Max Scharping can play both tackle spots. He has been impressed with how much they have picked up with the offense. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


O’Brien mentions that during the draft process that they worked to see if Kahale Warring would be a willing blocker at the NFL level. They liked how he handled it during the workout. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


Don’t know where Kahale Warring will end up but strong first day. Physically imposing presence out there from the tight end position. One to watch moving forward. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


Also, Tytus Howard is a good mover with his feet and Max Scharping has a few things to clean up but can see why he was successful in college. Long way to go but easy to see why the #Texans made them their selections.

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019


Lonnie Johnson Jr. is a long strider and can recover well in coverage. Big frame for a cornerback but movement skills are there. #Texans

— patrick (@PatDStat) May 10, 2019
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http://www.texanstalk.com/posts/2941974/
 
". He has some small technical aspects he needs to correct, his stance, pass protection drops and cleaning up his hands. Despite those minor issues, they are easy to adjust,"


Those don't strike me as minor issues that are easy to adjust
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me how many OL did Gibbs try to cross train?

He did a pretty good job of training OL. Much more so than Devlin.
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Gibbs..........over a decade ago.................before the CBA with all of its ridiculous limited offseason coach/player contact rules.........and severely curtailed number of practice sessions.........and severely constrained full-contact practices..............
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Gibbs..........over a decade ago.................before the CBA with all of its ridiculous limited offseason coach/player contact rules.........and severely curtailed number of practice sessions.........and severely constrained full-contact practices..............
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This is an even better reason not to waste time cross training rookies.
 
welsh texan said:
Honestly though, how many players are they going to ruin by trying to teach them everything on day 1?

Why not try and train up 5 quality starters for your 5 starting positions, and out of players who lose out, train yourself a swing tackle and someone who is versatile in the interior?

We're putting the cart before the horse here, there's no point having a load of Jack of all trades if you perenially fail to field a master LT, for instance.
Click to expand...
In TC the “cross training” is all about finding your starters and their best position. Are you sure Howard is their best LT. Assume he is and Sharping is your RT and Davenport is your swing T. Game time and Howard goes out (just a bathroom break, ok). Davenport goes where, LT? What if Sharping proved to be a better LT than Davenport in TC. How else are the Texans going to know that if they don’t compete at different OL positions during TC. I don’t get all the anguish here. Texans will be lining up their best OL at the right spot. Injuries force them out of those positions. It’s really all about insuring the most consistent LT position.
 
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Franchise Left Tackles don’t have to be versatile they have to do one thing and one thing we’ll, protect QB blind side. Hope Howard can do this
thunderkyss said:
I just remember when the Texans took Mario when "everyone" wanted Reggie/Vince, when they took Kareem when "everyone" wanted Kyle Wilson, when they took Hopkins when "everyone" wanted Patterson.

I'm surprised they took an OT when "everyone" wanted an OT. I am not surprised they didn't take the one "everybody" wanted.
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I’m not surprised they stood pat and let draft come to them, while winning organizations worked the draft and took what they wanted.
 
otisbean said:
Do you have an article that where McClain says we were trying to trade up? I listen to waaay too much sports radio, and read just about everything related to the draft starting in January and I remember McClain specifically stating we wouldn’t trade up for Dillard

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...keaways-from-Texans-first-day-of-13797251.php

This is just one example, I remember him stating the same things in the article above predraft on 610 multiple times.
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I don't. A poster here said he read it and then it was deleted.

But even if he never wrote that, the Eagles jumped one spot ahead of us because most of the league thought we would take Dillard. They didn't jump ahead of us to take Tytus.
 
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I'm not crying in my soup over some cross-training in OTA's for the sake of learning teammates positions and injury protection, but once training camp starts late July, I want to see Howard planted at LT and Sharping at RT (or RG if they so deem) and then leave them there and let them perfect those positions. For lower round or UDFA olineman that project as backups - it makes sense, but for the high picks they need to be planted at their best spot early on in their career. By year 2, I can see Scharping in particular, as a guy that could backup at LT and RG so cross-training in year 2 for him? I'm down with that.

Howard, I see as a LT. Period. Plant him there like a tree. He plays LT unless injured. Period. End of story.

How often did Duane Brown line up at LG or RT in rookie camp when he was drafted? How many times did he play any position in a game other than LT? How often did Kubes say he was versatile or could play guard or RT?

This regime wants a bunch of jacks of all trades. Most jacks never become an expert at any one thing. At LT, you can't have that. It's too important of a spot for a Jack.
 
HaveMercy said:
Exactly right. Spend the limited time you have preparing the rookies for the position you know they're going to be in rather than take more than an absolute minimum of that time preparing them for a position they will hopefully never be in.
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So if Howard is #1 and goes out you would be willing to put in your say third or fourth next best LT because that’s what he’s trained to do? I’m putting in my next best guy at that position. Remember last year. Henderson didn’t even play five minutes and he was gone. It’s GOING to happen. You better know your best chemistry because they only had a couple of minutes to run the next guy out there.
 
Porky said:
I'm not crying in my soup over some cross-training in OTA's for the sake of learning teammates positions and injury protection, but once training camp starts late July, I want to see Howard planted at LT and Sharping at RT (or RG if they so deem) and then leave them there and let them perfect those positions. For lower round or UDFA olineman that project as backups - it makes sense, but for the high picks they need to be planted at their best spot early on in their career. By year 2, I can see Scharping in particular, as a guy that could backup at LT and RG so cross-training in year 2 for him? I'm down with that.

Howard, I see as a LT. Period. Plant him there like a tree. He plays LT unless injured. Period. End of story.

How often did Duane Brown line up at LG or RT in rookie camp when he was drafted? How many times did he play any position in a game other than LT? How often did Kubes say he was versatile or could play guard or RT?

This regime wants a bunch of jacks of all trades. Most jacks never become an expert at any one thing. At LT, you can't have that. It's too important of a spot for a Jack.
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You won’t see that. OB wants competition at every position. He will make somebody take their position. It all shakes out and I’m guessing it will the way you state, but not in July.
 
Porky said:
I'm not crying in my soup over some cross-training in OTA's for the sake of learning teammates positions and injury protection, but once training camp starts late July, I want to see Howard planted at LT and Sharping at RT (or RG if they so deem) and then leave them there and let them perfect those positions. For lower round or UDFA olineman that project as backups - it makes sense, but for the high picks they need to be planted at their best spot early on in their career. By year 2, I can see Scharping in particular, as a guy that could backup at LT and RG so cross-training in year 2 for him? I'm down with that.

Howard, I see as a LT. Period. Plant him there like a tree. He plays LT unless injured. Period. End of story.

How often did Duane Brown line up at LG or RT in rookie camp when he was drafted? How many times did he play any position in a game other than LT? How often did Kubes say he was versatile or could play guard or RT?

This regime wants a bunch of jacks of all trades. Most jacks never become an expert at any one thing. At LT, you can't have that. It's too important of a spot for a Jack.
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You won’t see that. OB wants competition at every position. He will make somebody take their position. It all shakes out and I’m guessing it will the way you state, but not in July.
 
Dejaview said:
You won’t see that. OB wants competition at every position. He will make somebody take their position. It all shakes out and I’m guessing it will the way you state, but not in July.
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And coaches who have LTs compete against LTs don't? C'mon.
 
Dejaview said:
You won’t see that. OB wants competition at every position. He will make somebody take their position. It all shakes out and I’m guessing it will the way you state, but not in July.
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I never said "give Howard the starting LT spot". Of course he has to earn it. I'm talking about so-called position versatility vs. staying in one spot 99% of the time and trying to perfect that spot.

With guys that project as long term starters, why are you (meaning the Texans) valuing versatility so highly? For backups and spot starters, I get it. For long term starters that are early in their career, you're asking them to learn and retain more info than they may be able to absorb, slowing their progression.
 
Porky said:
I'm not crying in my soup over some cross-training in OTA's for the sake of learning teammates positions and injury protection, but once training camp starts late July, I want to see Howard planted at LT and Sharping at RT (or RG if they so deem) and then leave them there and let them perfect those positions. For lower round or UDFA olineman that project as backups - it makes sense, but for the high picks they need to be planted at their best spot early on in their career. By year 2, I can see Scharping in particular, as a guy that could backup at LT and RG so cross-training in year 2 for him? I'm down with that.

Howard, I see as a LT. Period. Plant him there like a tree. He plays LT unless injured. Period. End of story.

How often did Duane Brown line up at LG or RT in rookie camp when he was drafted? How many times did he play any position in a game other than LT? How often did Kubes say he was versatile or could play guard or RT?

This regime wants a bunch of jacks of all trades. Most jacks never become an expert at any one thing. At LT, you can't have that. It's too important of a spot for a Jack.
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What is going unsaid in this conversation is the situation with Davenport. This is only his 3rd season, and coming from his small school, this should be his break out season. If this proves to be the case, if everything comes together this off season and he proves to be the player hoped for when drafted, then what do we do with Howard and Scharping. Who's the better fit at RG and who's the better fit at RT. It's potentially a good situation to be in but shows the early need for cross training.
 
Porky said:
I never said "give Howard the starting LT spot". Of course he has to earn it. I'm talking about so-called position versatility vs. staying in one spot 99% of the time and trying to perfect that spot.

With guys that project as long term starters, why are you (meaning the Texans) valuing versatility so highly? For backups and spot starters, I get it. For long term starters that are early in their career, you're asking them to learn and retain more info than they may be able to absorb, slowing their progression.
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Exactly
 
Number19 said:
What is going unsaid in this conversation is the situation with Davenport. This is only his 3rd season, and coming from his small school, this should be his break out season. If this proves to be the case, if everything comes together this off season and he proves to be the player hoped for when drafted, then what do we do with Howard and Scharping. Who's the better fit at RG and who's the better fit at RT. It's potentially a good situation to be in but shows the early need for cross training.
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Howard already has significant experience on both sides. Scharping does as well plus some at G.
 
Porky said:
I never said "give Howard the starting LT spot". Of course he has to earn it. I'm talking about so-called position versatility vs. staying in one spot 99% of the time and trying to perfect that spot.

With guys that project as long term starters, why are you (meaning the Texans) valuing versatility so highly? For backups and spot starters, I get it. For long term starters that are early in their career, you're asking them to learn and retain more info than they may be able to absorb, slowing their progression.
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When these players win their starting spot they will play there. They aren’t going to move a productive LT to guard for the hell of it, but at this point versatility is also ass covering for a lack of depth. It’s also trying to put the most consistent OL in front of Watson when the inevitable injuries occur. Didn’t we have a game last year where we were down to zero backups? People were forced to play out of position. BTW who is this player(s) that was ruined by this strategy...and not by injuries? And if he was playing out of position was there an alternative or was he forced to because of injuries to other players?
 
Porky said:
This regime wants a bunch of jacks of all trades. Most jacks never become an expert at any one thing. At LT, you can't have that. It's too important of a spot for a Jack.
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The original saying was "A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one"

It used to be a compliment, recognizing that someone was versatile and adept at many things. I think this applies to a lot of guys on any team's roster. The more you can do. Not saying your LT shouldn't be a specialist. Just saying that for the most part, having a lot of versatile Jacks is not a bad thing.
 
HaveMercy said:
Exactly right. Spend the limited time you have preparing the rookies for the position you know they're going to be in rather than take more than an absolute minimum of that time preparing them for a position they will hopefully never be in.
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Seems logical to me

But I'm not like BOB/Devlin trying to be the smartest man in the room.
 
sandman said:
The original saying was "A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one"

It used to be a compliment, recognizing that someone was versatile and adept at many things. I think this applies to a lot of guys on any team's roster. The more you can do. Not saying your LT shouldn't be a specialist. Just saying that for the most part, having a lot of versatile Jacks is not a bad thing.
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Your backups should be jack of all trades guys. Kelemete is a perfect example of this kind of player. Not a couple of rookies just getting their feet wet.

It's like BOB didn't learn a damn thing after moving XSF all over the place as a rookie and is insistent on doing the same things with Howard/Scharping. How did that work out for XSF?

This may be on Devlin, but at some point BOB needs to step in and stop Devlin from his own devices.
 
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Dejaview said:
In college. But who was trying to confuse and ruin them making those poor guys play more than one position?
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Out of necessity not just for the fu@k of it as they are making the jump to the NFL. Again, nobody is objecting to cross training. The complaint is doing it with rookies.
 
steelbtexan said:
Your bacups should be jack of all trades guys. Kelmete is a perfect example of this kind of player. Not a couple of rookies just getting their feet wet.

It's like BOB didn't learn a damn thing after moving XSF all over the place as a rookie and is insistent on doing the same things with Howard/Scharping. How did that work out for XSF?

This may be on Devlin, but at some point BOB needs to step in and stop Devlin from his own devices.
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XSF didn’t work out for XSF. He couldn’t win and hold a spot.
 
infantrycak said:
Out of necessity not just for the fu@k of it as they are making the jump to the NFL. Again, nobody is objecting to cross training. The complaint is doing it with rookies.
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Gotta figure out the rookies best position first. I’m pretty sure they want Howard at LT in the worst way.
 
Dejaview said:
Nope. If he was good he’d still be here.
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So his lack of development had nothing to do with coaching and how he was handled? OK

Good god you're such a mouth piece for the Texans org. If XSF wasn't good (Which he wasn't) why did they keep him around so long. Will they ever learn to admit their mistakes and quickly move on?
 
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