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Rookie Mini-Camp

Texansphan

All Pro
I don't either...I think he would have been called out by JJ if not OB/Weaver/RAC if it was work ethic related...

He's been getting better yearly in the pass rush, perhaps this year he breaks into double digits
Personally, it is quite brave to play with a knee like that.
He either loves the game and wants to play or he is trying for that big pay day.
Can't fault him for either.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
If Howard goes on to be an all pro, we definitely didn't whiff on the pick.
This is certainly the hope. Usually it takes until second year however so let’s be patient. For now adjust offense to get rid of the ball faster and extra protection. Missed out on some good backs that could have helped balanced running attack. So probably use TE’s a lot finally.

But I remain worried about the corners and backend on D. Linebackers are poor in coverage too while most teams added speed and coverage skills at that position. Just worries the hell out of me, pinning so much on the pass rush.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If you're sitting on the bench, you're not filling anything other than a roster spot, you aren't filling a position. Picking up Kalil in FA does nothing to alter their worth as draft picks. As of now, Kalil is nothing more than Boselli 2.0, without having reached the Boselli potential.
Sorry, I got confused with all the pronouns. I thought "they" referred to the Texans. The Texans, as you've stated has 4 three threads currently working to "fill the need" Kalil, Davenport, Howard/Sharping.

Unfortunately, we don't have a Jason Peters, we have Julien Davenport. To behave as if we're on equal footing is a fool's errand. What you call short-sighted, I call prudent. We need a starter to protect Watson NOW, or he won't be around to protect when your big-upside LT is finally ready.
I agree, we need someone to play LT now. We should have traded up to 8 to get Williams. But we didn't. We should have signed a legit LT in FA... we didn't.

We could have gone BPA & cross our fingers through this season & try again next year, or draft a guy like Dillard or Howard & get them ready for next year.

Again, this is specifically taking into consideration the Eagles do not intend for Dillard to start this year.

Davenport is not Peter's. If Peters & Dillard are like Favre & Rodgers, then Davenport & Howard are Jackson & Wilson.

Position has to be filled. If plan A was out of reach, Williams, plan B is either a Davenport clone in round 4, all eggs in the Kahlil basket, or next year.
 
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Texas Jake

Rookie
Anyone giving Gaine the benefit of the doubt is either way too nice, or a Front Office insider.
His draft might be the worst out of all the GMs this year.
IMO you can't miss with picks in the first 2 rounds or it majorly holds back the franchise.
Those picks need to be starters, and on this team they need to be starters immediately with all our holes.
We had 3 picks in the first 2 rounds. None of them look like sure things to start this year.
Scharping looks like the best bet to start this year, and that's not a sure thing at all.

Left Tackle was our biggest need. It still is our biggest need after the draft.
If they didn't want Dillard who was the top passblocking LT on most boards, that's one thing.
But, to not trade back in the draft 2 times, acquire way more picks and then draft a Right Tackle prospect like Howard, that was inexcusable.
We've got holes all over the roster. Trade back and fill some holes instead of drafting a project tackle at 23.
We needed guys that could come in and play right away. Not guys that need time to develop for 1-2 years.
Why not trade back and then draft Jawaan Taylor, who can start this year.
This front office doesn't seem to be able to scout talent on the O-line for years, hopefully I'm all wrong and they figured it out this year.
I'm not trying to knock the guys they drafted, they could all turn out to be starters, it just seems to me that other guys were available at those spots that can start right away.
We haven't played a down of football and already calling the picks a fail. I think I will hold my judgement till i see the product on the field. For now, I am undecided whether this draft was good or bad.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Fair enough. He mentioned work ethic and was basically saying lack of work ethic is why he isn't an elite pass rusher. To me that means lazy but people can decide for themselves.

Personally I think he's not an elite pass rusher because it's hard to be one. Maybe there's something about his body or how he moves that prevents him from being elite in that area . But he's still very good at pass rushing.
Clowney doesn't have the bend around the edge that the elite pass rushers have.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Sorry, I got confused with all the pronouns. I thought "they" referred to the Texans. The Texans, as you've stated has 4 three threads currently working to "fill the need" Kalil, Davenport, Howard/Sharping.



I agree, we need someone to play LT now. We should have traded up to 8 to get Williams. But we didn't. We should have signed a legit LT in FA... we didn't.

We could have gone BPA & cross our fingers through this season & try again next year, or draft a guy like Dillard or Howard & get them ready for next year.

Again, this is specifically taking into consideration the Eagles do not intend for Dillard to start this year.

Davenport is not Peter's. If Peters & Dillard are like Favre & Rodgers, then Davenport & Howard are Jackson & Wilson.

Position has to be filled. If plan A was out of reach, Williams, plan B is either a Davenport clone in round 4, all eggs in the Kahlil basket, or next year.
Good post

Davenport/Howard are frick and fraco compared to Peters/Dillard.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
No doubt health factors into all the other contract considerations.
Please, the head vulture is saying health doesn't play an unusual role with Clowney?

[Edit, think I misinterpreted,..]

Hell, I'm in your kettle on his health.

If you'll recall, Mario underperformed and was not elite in Houston and yet got the largest DE contract in the league at the time.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
As I recall, that Texans D was on verge of becoming most dominant in NFL with a rookie named Watt tearing up the league, Wade Phillips coordinator and Mario Williams finally in a role that could obliterate opposing offensive lines, then he got hurt. What was it, 5 or 6 games into the season? Then hit free agent market after season and got Buffaloed. Far as I know he was never shopped around. Clowney has already been shopped around. Both #1 overall picks.
 
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infantrycak

Admin & Mod
As I recall, that Texans D was on verge of becoming most dominant in NFL with a rookie named Watt tearing up the league, Wade Phillips coordinator and Mario Williams finally in a role that could obliterate opposing offensive lines, then he got hurt. What was it, 5 or 6 games into the season? Then hit free agent market after season and got Buffaloed. Far as I know he was never shopped around. Clowney has already been shipped around. Both #1 overall picks.
Then your memory is off, or at least the reasoning. Watt did not have a spectacular rookie season. He was solid against the run but was not a big pass rusher or JJ Swat yet. Mario and Watt played for all of 5 games together. In those only LB games of Mario's career he was more one dimensional than Clowney - either sack the QB or useless (5 games, 11 tackles including 5 sacks). Mario didn't make all pro in Houston and didn't make pro bowl his last 2 seasons in Houston. Clowney has been PB last 3 seasons.

Point was only if you look at Mario he wasn't elite leaving Houston but got paid elite. So Clowney isn't delusional to expect a big payday.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Then your memory is off, or at least the reasoning. Watt did not have a spectacular rookie season. He was solid against the run but was not a big pass rusher or JJ Swat yet
The way I remember it Jj was turning it on at the end of that year. He wasn't JjSwatt just yet, but he was filling into his own.

Other than that, yeah Mario was solid but never played anywhere close to the contract he got from Buffalo.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Then your memory is off, or at least the reasoning. Watt did not have a spectacular rookie season. He was solid against the run but was not a big pass rusher or JJ Swat yet. Mario and Watt played for all of 5 games together. In those only LB games of Mario's career he was more one dimensional than Clowney - either sack the QB or useless (5 games, 11 tackles including 5 sacks). Mario didn't make all pro in Houston and didn't make pro bowl his last 2 seasons in Houston. Clowney has been PB last 3 seasons.

Point was only if you look at Mario he wasn't elite leaving Houston but got paid elite. So Clowney isn't delusional to expect a big payday.
Bigger picture, Point was, Clowney isn’t delusional to expect a bigger pay day, here or elsewhere so we are actually in agreement. I mentioned he had only played in 5 or 6 games, couldn’t remember off top of my head, but now I’m looking it up. Also realize in Wade Phillips 3-4 he moved Mario to OLB (how many discussions did we have about that and how to better use Mario and his best position).

In 5 games Mario Williams had 5 sacks, on pace for 16 sacks. 7 QB hits (21) and 4 TFL (12). Not exactly useless. Texans tried to resign him to a long term contract, of which you could again probably remember better the offer and don’t believe Mario was ever franchised?

Different players, different times but similarities will be linked. When taking 1st overall player, DE twice, system fit, injures and medicals can override production because your always projecting forward, basing next contract not just off what was done but what can be done in the future.

There has been only one player in franchise history who has flashed then produced the kind of numbers worthy of a “big franchise” contract and that’s JJ Watt. I realize Clowney has some medical issues that scare the hell out of the Texans FO more than his on the field production, but can’t they just write that into a long term contract to make it cap friendly and take out insurance to recover any future losses?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Bigger picture, Point was, Clowney isn’t delusional to expect a bigger pay day, here or elsewhere so we are actually in agreement. I mentioned he had only played in 5 or 6 games, couldn’t remember off top of my head, but now I’m looking it up. Also realize in Wade Phillips 3-4 he moved Mario to OLB (how many discussions did we have about that and how to better use Mario and his best position).

In 5 games Mario Williams had 5 sacks, on pace for 16 sacks. 7 QB hits (21) and 4 TFL (12). Not exactly useless. Texans tried to resign him to a long term contract, of which you could again probably remember better the offer and don’t believe Mario was ever franchised?

Different players, different times but similarities will be linked. When taking 1st overall player, DE twice, system fit, injures and medicals can override production because your always projecting forward, basing next contract not just off what was done but what can be done in the future.

There has been only one player in franchise history who has flashed then produced the kind of numbers worthy of a “big franchise” contract and that’s JJ Watt. I realize Clowney has some medical issues that scare the hell out of the Texans FO more than his on the field production, but can’t they just write that into a long term contract to make it cap friendly and take out insurance to recover any future losses?
Agreed

They could front load Clowney's contract in the first 2 yrs since Watson isn't due for a new contract for 3 yrs. That's not the way the Texans do business though. Even if they do front load contracts with a player they usually go back and restructure that player within the 2 yr period.

That's the way it used to be until the Texans decided to go for the salary cap championship.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Bigger picture, Point was, Clowney isn’t delusional to expect a bigger pay day, here or elsewhere so we are actually in agreement. I mentioned he had only played in 5 or 6 games, couldn’t remember off top of my head, but now I’m looking it up. Also realize in Wade Phillips 3-4 he moved Mario to OLB (how many discussions did we have about that and how to better use Mario and his best position).

In 5 games Mario Williams had 5 sacks, on pace for 16 sacks. 7 QB hits (21) and 4 TFL (12). Not exactly useless. Texans tried to resign him to a long term contract, of which you could again probably remember better the offer and don’t believe Mario was ever franchised?

Different players, different times but similarities will be linked. When taking 1st overall player, DE twice, system fit, injures and medicals can override production because your always projecting forward, basing next contract not just off what was done but what can be done in the future.

There has been only one player in franchise history who has flashed then produced the kind of numbers worthy of a “big franchise” contract and that’s JJ Watt. I realize Clowney has some medical issues that scare the hell out of the Texans FO more than his on the field production, but can’t they just write that into a long term contract to make it cap friendly and take out insurance to recover any future losses?
No loss of value insurance policy will come close to covering any large $ multiple year contract.
 


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