TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
@CloakNNNdagger thoughts on the reports Sweat was misdiagnosed? Likely occurence or an agent spreading misinformation?
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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Dr. Muntz the Texans doctor, as reported by Ian Rapoport, found that Sweats heart thickness that measured almost 2 cms at the Combine incorrectly included the additional thickness of a structure called the papillary muscle.
Remeasurement brought the thickness down to 1.5 cms. A few comments would have to include the fact that we don't know it Sweat has any blood pressure problems...........something not uncommon in black athletes. Other factors would have to include family history and whether the heart's inner chambers are dilated. The latter can occur and progress in time to decrease function of the heart especially in light of heavy exercise. Other factors would probably be beyond the scope of this MB.
One and one half cms is better that 2 cms, but a detailed review of this subject recently published in the World Journal of Cardiology shows us that 1.5 cm is in a grey zone (considered between 1.3 and 1.5 cms) between "Athlete's heart" and pathologic ventricular hypertrophic myocardiopathy. Without knowing much more information than has been released, the prognosis cannot be entirely predicted.............but 1.5 cm thickness would not put me at ease.
Remeasurement brought the thickness down to 1.5 cms. A few comments would have to include the fact that we don't know it Sweat has any blood pressure problems...........something not uncommon in black athletes. Other factors would have to include family history and whether the heart's inner chambers are dilated. The latter can occur and progress in time to decrease function of the heart especially in light of heavy exercise. Other factors would probably be beyond the scope of this MB.
One and one half cms is better that 2 cms, but a detailed review of this subject recently published in the World Journal of Cardiology shows us that 1.5 cm is in a grey zone (considered between 1.3 and 1.5 cms) between "Athlete's heart" and pathologic ventricular hypertrophic myocardiopathy. Without knowing much more information than has been released, the prognosis cannot be entirely predicted.............but 1.5 cm thickness would not put me at ease.
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markn
All Pro
Fans of other teams seem very keen on him judging by replies to that tweet.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Hmm...
Clowney for Patrick Peterson and pick #65?
Hope you're wrong.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Just an additional thought to the above. I can't imagine any radiologist or cardiologist including the papillary muscle in the evaluation of the ventricular thickness. So much leaves me wondering what is really going on.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yes that really surprised me. If true whomever should be fired. That could cost Sweat lots if he falls during actual draft. Thanks for you expert opinions.
zshawn10
All Pro
12. A note on #Texans edge rusher Jadeveon Clowney. I’m told his situation is on a track similar to Frank Clark and the #Seahawks prior to Clark’s trade to the #Chiefs. So much so, Houston actually put out trade feelers about Clowney right in the middle of that Frank Clark deal.
— Charles Robinson (@CharlesRobinson) April 25, 2019
— Charles Robinson (@CharlesRobinson) April 25, 2019
PapaL
Loose Screw
In all our years have we had a more divided view on a player other than JDC?
Regardless of what happens, dude made 3 ProBowls on one knee. Played hurt. Carried the defense when called upon. Jumped offsides at inopportune times. Never a locker room issue; well liked by coaches and teammates.
Hoping he continues his career with us, with a protected contract, OR we get one hell of a haul for him. Watson is our best bet for winning a championship. With as much assets as we’ve pumped into the defense I’d expect much better results than we’ve had. If we’re going to lose games, spend those high picks on a high scoring offense instead of the bend and break defense we currently have.
Regardless of what happens, dude made 3 ProBowls on one knee. Played hurt. Carried the defense when called upon. Jumped offsides at inopportune times. Never a locker room issue; well liked by coaches and teammates.
Hoping he continues his career with us, with a protected contract, OR we get one hell of a haul for him. Watson is our best bet for winning a championship. With as much assets as we’ve pumped into the defense I’d expect much better results than we’ve had. If we’re going to lose games, spend those high picks on a high scoring offense instead of the bend and break defense we currently have.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
DC in his 2nd thru 5th years?
zshawn10
All Pro
Per a source, I’m told Houston reached out to KC about Clowney prior to the Frank Clark trade, but the Chiefs were locked in on Clark – their No. 1 guy. https://t.co/Mpr2QNxLLd
— Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) April 25, 2019
— Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) April 25, 2019
If true With all factors considered (cost to sign, health,motor, work ethic, etc)
The chiefs even with baggage liked Clark over Clowney.
Says a lot.
I don’t think there is much of a demand for Clowney possibly his contract demands
Clowney is not worth Clark deal
So no better deal to be done.
Let’s hope something in works
As stated months ago the good teams with a good qb are not bothered by pass rush. See colts playoff game
Those are the type of teams that make playoffs and who the Texans must beat if their goal is super bowl
Not sure brain trust realize this
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Duane Brown for Clowney straight up?
Well now that Bob McNair is dead...
badboy
Hall of Fame
What about Rashad Penny and DK Metcalf?
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Metcalf was a media creation who can only run 2 routes and we already drafted a guy in the 1st (Fuller) who fills that role. Penny was a 1st rounder who was 3rd string behind a 7th round pick (Chris Carson) and the Bears #3 RB (Mike Davis).
These are the two guys you want for a Pro Bowl pass rusher who is the premiere edge run defender in the league?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It did not surprise me that DK Metcalf dropped to the last pick of the 2nd rnd of the Draft. He had surgery on a neck injury last Oct. It is believed that it was surgery for a simple ruptured disc. But in fact, this was a cervical fusion for a fracture of his C3 vertebra. He was medically cleared in Jan. to return to play, which tells me that this was only a one level fusion (if it were more than that, he would not safely been allowed to continue his career). However, this fusion definitely now results in more stress on the vertebrae and discs above and below the fused segments.
He also lost his 2016 season to an early Sept. Jones fracture.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It did not surprise me that DK Metcalf dropped to the last pick of the 2nd rnd of the Draft. He had surgery on a neck injury last Oct. It is believed that it was surgery for a simple ruptured disc. But in fact, this was a cervical fusion for a fracture of his C3 vertebra. He was medically cleared in Jan. to return to play, which tells me that this was only a one level fusion (if it were more than that, he would not safely been allowed to continue his career). However, this fusion definitely now results in more stress on the vertebrae and discs above and below the fused segments.
He also lost virtually the entire 2016 season to an early Sept. Jones fracture. He is essentially a 3-year college player that only has a total of 1 1/2 years of experience in those 3 years before entering the NFL. There should be a great deal of caution in any optimism for this pick's future.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
bUt HiS sAcK nUmBeRs ArE HoRrIbLe!! NoT wOrTh tHe mOnEy!!
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
Clowney production isn't there because our Secondary is bad... if the secondary was shutdown? Clowney would be the most feared man in the NFL.. Imagine Clowney on the New Orlean Saints or the Minnesota Vikings... He would eat!
Clowney was our best defensive player down the stretch Andy people want to trade him for peanuts. I don’t get it.
Absolutely. When 90% of his pass snaps are quick throws and the other ten percent he has to fight with Watt over the sack he’s not going to light up the sack stats. That’s why I wanted a couple of good press corners in this draft. If we stop allowing all that underneath quick crap, watt and clowney are going to feast.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Media creation? Your view and neck injury or not Seattle selected him #64.
He may have only two routes but prior to his injury
nfl.comdrafttracker
Zierlein ranked him pre-draft at 6.25 INSTANT STARTER. Risky? Yes but so is you know who. As a 21 YOA RS Soph, he could sit for a season if necessary and still be very young WR. Fuller may play 16 but just a possibly not. A 6'3" 228 4.33 guy who "tracks and then goes and gets" sounds like something #4 might use.
Penny: In 2017 7th round Chris Carson was drafted by Seattle to see if he could hang with NFL vets Eddy Lacy who had been brought in as UFA from GBay result Lacy fizzled [9 games 69/179 yds] and is out of NFL. Another vet Mike Davis was 112/514 @ 4.6 and Carson looked promising enough at 49/208 @4.2 to keep.
2018 Rashad Penny drafted but NFL experienced Carson outplayed him 247/1151 @ 4.7 9TDs; still Penny had 85/419 @ 4.9 and 2 TDs. I think Penny could beat out Miller.
If Gaines can get Seattle to throw in some more like a pick 2020, great. These guys imo are not peanuts but were suggested as that a suggestion to create talk.
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
This whole situation is the big elephant in the room on the season. If Clowney pulls a Bell or even a DB and sits all or half the season this defense will look a lot different. However, if he plays and the coaching staff makes a commitment to running more press man to help out the pass rush with the added personnel in FA/draft in the secondary then Clowney has a chance to put up big numbers and prove he's worth that mega deal. Just don't know if he's willing to pass up that 60 million guaranteed he'll get somewhere next season if he sits to play for 17 guaranteed.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If he sits he won't get that.
Remind me how many players have actually sat out?
Remind me how many players have actually sat out?
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Remind me how much Bell lost by sitting? And Clowney’s position is more highly valued than RB. Sitting out is going to be a valid tactic now that DB and Bell have shown you’ll still be rewarded by one of the 31 other teams. Even AB, he didn’t sit but threatening to do so got him a brand new contract elsewhere.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
They just want Clowney gone. Be it for a kings ransom or a plug nickel.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
And Duane Brown??
I’m sure he disagrees with your take. As i’m sure most NFL players in his/Clowney’s situation would as well.
I get the injuries. But does the NFL really care about experience, anymore? The #1 overall pick was a QB that was a one year starter. The top RB was lauded for having few carries and low mileage. The #2 pick sat out most of his junior year and the #3 pick was also a one year starter. 1-1/2 years doesn't explain the drop.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I understand what you are pointing out. It will be interesting to see how these picks work out, in that gaining maturity in many aspects prior to entrance into the NFL has always been felt to be important for success.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wtf? You're so in left field I don't get the attempted analogy.
Fact you're trying to avoid, Bell lost money.
Explain how Clowney ends up with more money sitting out? C'mon sideline agent.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
17 million guaranteed for playing. Yet risking 60 million guaranteed if he gets injured. His agent would agree that the 60 million guaranteed is better. Much higher risk of injury at his position than say Cousins when he was taking the tag in Washington.
Easy enough for you? Of course not... but i’ll play along anyway
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
AT BEST he gets the $60 mil delayed while missing $16 mil.
Basic math.
Present how he gets more in his pocket. Easy enough right?
Ask Bell who got dick extra from your advice and is now playing for last season.
Basic math.
Present how he gets more in his pocket. Easy enough right?
Ask Bell who got dick extra from your advice and is now playing for last season.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Don’t get me wrong... I hope Clowney’s agent is as short sighted as you and telling him to risk the 60 million payout betting his ticking time bomb knee and shoddy all around medical history will hold up another year to get to the bigger pot of gold
HaveMercy
Passing Through
I so agree. If the DB's can slow down the quick passing game opponents run against us, Clowney and Watt will look All-World. Pay the man! Keep him here!
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think you've posted why Clowney should not sit out; rest will not make his knees better. He needs every dollar soon as he can get. He has to be concerned no one overwhelmed Texans with a deal so he could get $50 m+ GTD. Play for $17 and hope things change. Yes he could get hurt but he'd get 17. Even good health doesn't guarantee a guarantee after season. Another good season at least brings high dollars from Houston.Don’t get me wrong... I hope Clowney’s agent is as short sighted as you and telling him to risk the 60 million payout betting his ticking time bomb knee and shoddy all around medical history will hold up another year to get to the bigger pot of gold
I would point out that Clowney has already made over $35 million in his career. Will that make him more likely to sit out a year? Right now, his value on the trade market is higher than prior to the 2019 draft , because the compensation to the Texans would be pushed out to future years. But, Clowney's value to the Texans is high, as they did nothing to procure his replacement.
My solution would be to offer Clowney a one year deal based off market prices, rather than the tag. The top 5 edge players average around $20 million. Give him a deal for $20 mil for $2019. You could tie in a club option for $24 million in 2020. If Clowney performs and remains healthy, that could be spread out to a longer deal. If not, both parties go their separate ways. This seems to be the best way to get Clowney on the field in 2019 and not make the long term decision now on a contract.
My solution would be to offer Clowney a one year deal based off market prices, rather than the tag. The top 5 edge players average around $20 million. Give him a deal for $20 mil for $2019. You could tie in a club option for $24 million in 2020. If Clowney performs and remains healthy, that could be spread out to a longer deal. If not, both parties go their separate ways. This seems to be the best way to get Clowney on the field in 2019 and not make the long term decision now on a contract.
That's a plan, and it works for me !
I dunno can a team trade a player under contract just about anytime during the year ?
Anytime before the trade deadline (I think around week 8).
Apples and oranges with clowney. Look at it from clowneys POV. And keep in mind his injury history. If he takes the one year deal and re-injures his knee, he’s likely done. He most likely won’t ever get another chance at a long term contract. It’s now or never for him.
Bell sat out a year and missed out on lot of money. He still got a long term deal for more money. If you were in clowneys situation wouldn’t you give up one year to guarantee a long term contract? I sure as hell would.
Totally disagree... he missed out on at least $20M that he will never recoup
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...s-new-star-may-have-lost-by-sitting-out-2018/
Don't see what that has to do with whether Bell lost money sitting out or not
We don't even know if an offer, other than the franchise tender, has been made.