I do. I believe he will not sign the tender.
Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
Anything in particular to Clowney that you're basing this on?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What's the sales pitch that holding out benefits him? You realize his agent will lose $479k?
Holding out after year 3 of a rookie deal or in the middle of a seriously underpaying contract can make sense. Holding out on a franchise tag is usually shooting yourself in the foot. In Clowney's case moreso.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Those trying to compare Clowney's to Lawrence's situation forget that Lawrence was on his second tag and potentially onto his third had the Cowboys not made the long term deal.
Regarding Lawrence's situation:
With $20.56 million on the books for 2019 — and a chance to make $29.6 million under a third franchise tag in 2020 — Lawrence swapped the tag in the hand for a long-term deal that made sense for both sides.
Albert Breer of SI.com has posted the cash flow generated by the new long-term deal. And the key comes from the first two years: Lawrence gets $31.1 million in 2019 and $16.9 million in 2020, fully guaranteed.
That’s $48 million over two years. While $2.1 million less than the $50.1 million he would have made under the franchise tag over the next two years, it’s also more than the franchise tag/transition tag two-step that the Cowboys could have attempted, which would have resulted in $20.56 million in 2019 and $24.672 million in 2020, for a total of $45.23 million.
Lawrence also has $17 million in 2021 that is guaranteed for injury at signing, and that amount becomes fully guaranteed in March of 2020 — not March of 2021. This means that he’ll either get $65 million for three years or $48 million for one year, and a trip to the open market.
To get that security, Lawrence had to agree to a pair of non-guaranteed years on the back and, at $19 million in 2022 and $21 million in 2023. There’s a chance that increases in the salary cap, along with other contracts signed in the interim, will make those numbers seem pedestrian by then. There’s also a chance the Cowboys won’t honor the non-guaranteed years. Regardless, he’s getting either $48 million for one year or $65 million for three, which makes it worth the risk that he’ll either be underpaid or cut loose in 2022.
Ultimately it’s Clowneys decision. Look at it from his POV. If he signs a one year deal and gets hurt, he may never get another chance at a Large long term deal. This is his chance to financially take care himself and his loved ones for good.
Do you think he wants to play all year Worrying about getting injured? He’s young and a years rest for his knee and a fresh start sounds better than going through a year of stressing over this.
He’s been a good teammate and done all that has been asked of him. If this team doesn’t believe in him enough to sign him to a long term contract maybe it’s time for him to move on.
We will see.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Buy insurance out of the $15.97 mil for the year. That & playing is taking better care.
zshawn10
All Pro
Patrick talked to Clowney last night and Clowney said that no talks are ongoing
https://twitter.com/ThePatrickStorm/status/1115094884367642625
He's also on Facebook, supposedly he's an insider; I have posted his facebook stuff here before
https://imgur.com/a/wjLypoO
https://twitter.com/ThePatrickStorm/status/1115094884367642625
He's also on Facebook, supposedly he's an insider; I have posted his facebook stuff here before
https://imgur.com/a/wjLypoO
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
DeMarcus Lawrence expects to miss preseason after shoulder surgery
Posted by Josh Alper on April 8, 2019, 6:02 PM EDT
Cowboys defensive end DeMarcus Lawrence is set to have a press conference at the team’s facility on Tuesday to discuss the five-year, $105 million deal he signed last Friday.
Lawrence will then move on to having shoulder surgery Wednesday. Lawrence is having a torn labrum repaired and was waiting for his new deal to be done before heading into the operating room.
The rehab timeline for that surgery stretches well into the summer and Lawrence said on The Rich Eisen Show Monday that he expects to miss the preseason with designs on being ready to go in Week One.
“Yes, you are always hopeful for the shorter time barring some complication,” Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones said on 103.3 FM, via the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “It was certainly a concern. He played with it last year. We felt like it in his best interest long-term. DeMarcus felt that way. We needed to get surgery. It turns out it got done in a timely fashion. We couldn’t do a contract that wasn’t good for DeMarcus and the Cowboys.”
It will be some time before there’s a sense of Lawrence’s chances of being ready in September, but the rest of the Cowboys will get their offseason work started next week.
************************
So he's now projected to miss the preseason, BUT be ready to go in Week One.............................ummm, OK...........
BTW, the side of his injury/proposed surgery has not been reported........but he wore a left shoulder harness last season. That's the reason he could play through it. He is a weakside DE and therefore the right shoulder is the critical one, as it is used to force the offensive players inside........something that would easily cause continued repeated dislocation of the right shoulder.........and would have required surgery much sooner.
Last edited:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Speaking on 103.3 FM on Monday, Cowboys EVP Stephen Jones confirmed the four-to-six-month rehab for Lawrence, who is already expected to miss training camp.
"Yes, you are always hopeful for the shorter time barring some complication," Jones said, via the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. "It was certainly a concern. He played with it last year. We felt like it in his best interest long-term. DeMarcus felt that way. We needed to get surgery. It turns out it got done in a timely fashion. We couldn't do a contract that wasn't good for DeMarcus and the Cowboys."
Now the Cowboys hope they did the deal early enough that surgery won't wipe out the start of the 2019 season for their newly paid pass rusher. LINK
*************************************************
Looks like both entities were banking on a positive outcome for their side, based strongly on the final new contract given to Trey Flowers...........Lawrence hoping leverage with a higher $, the Cowboys hoping for a lower $. Flowers contract was not finalized until a little over 3 weeks ago. It was then and only then that the nitty gritty negotiations began to occur. Lawrence would not have wanted to undergo surgery until after a contract was signed, as unexpected negative additional findings at the time of surgery would significantly decrease his leverage. On the other hand, although they would have been looking to get the best team deal possible, the Cowboys had to ultimately "role the dice" because they could not afford to break up their core leading to another early exit in the 2019 postseason.
Last edited:
He is a old guy like yourself, lol. John McClain from the Houston chronicle
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I left Houston in 1997, and could never understand McClain hate on this board once I joined.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Pancakes acts like an insider but is largely a schill for the team. Just spouts what they feed him. Feel he is a bit too lazy and not hard on them calling them to the table
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think some of it came from McClain blasting Texans for taking Mario Williams. I understand he was sort of persona non grata for quite some time. IMO, he did become more "team friendly" and allowed back. No comment on his role for years on 610 radio outlet for team assisting him to climb back into a state of grace. I do enjoy his stories of older players. Old guys just have to absorb something even if he is not cutting edge. IMO there's no one like that in H'town although Fox Mark Furman use to break some good info.
Last edited:
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
McClain can be entertaining and has some great oiler stories. If you hear him a handful of times its easy to believe what he says. After a while, when current team affairs or "what ifs" are asked you realize he speaks with conviction. Not fact. Most of it is simple guesswork to nfl fans who pay attention. Most of its just common sense.
There might've been a time when his foot was in the door and he had inside knowledge. I think that stopped when the Oilers left town.
There might've been a time when his foot was in the door and he had inside knowledge. I think that stopped when the Oilers left town.
Last edited:
Yeah he had an insider with the Oilers... never with the Texans. Now when he's 'reporting' it's mostly the movies he's had a cameo in or wanted to be in. His guess work turns out to be mostly wrong, but he does have some influence... his work to get Robert Brazile into the HOF for example
I think he also played a signifcant role in getting Warren Moon in the HOF. But the way he talks about players getting into the HOF it sounds like the process is not that much unlike in Washington DC where a guy supports spending legislation for ones district then reciprocates by supporting the others spending bill. In other words selection to the HOF is not based on meritocracy but rather it's a political process.
MCCains stories about the oldtimers are often entertaining and sometimes even insightful.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
When the Texans started McLain was on the NFL generally and did have around the league contacts. Then they made him Texans specific and it cut his travel wahoos down. He was pissy for a while. But he did have some Casserly contacts. Then Kubiak came and shut that down. He got pissy again and was anti-Texan for a while. Without any insider info his lack of analyst skills was exposed. Over time he got over it and seems to have taken a fu@k it attitude more than pro Texan imo.
noxiousdog
Rookie
McLain writes and tells good stories. His analysis and reporting has been exposed in the modern era.
badboy
Hall of Fame
This and he got sidetracked with his acting. 610 only made it worse playing up to him droning on and on about his credits. The programs spent eons talking movies and annual Academy Awards. I called once years ago comparing them to WWF(now WWE) not really a sport but great talkers. I think I was shortest comment in radio history. Also why did he get moniker "the General"?
zshawn10
All Pro
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Great. More drama.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
I honestly couldn't care less if this guy is with the team long-term or not.
Should have drafted Mack.
Should have drafted Mack.
Because the Texans don't need pro-bowl caliber players or apathy is the way of life?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Understand, but thought everyone on this board (other than trolls) wanted what was best for Texans
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
This really shouldn't surprise anyone.
He really dislikes anything Pats related success.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Because he's not nearly as good as people think he is, frequently does unintelligent things on the field, disappears for large swaths of games/seasons, is somewhat fragile, yet is going to command an absolutely ridiculous amount of money compared to his value and performance.
Last edited:
He wouldn't command that money if he was as bad as you seem to think
This is one circumstance where either side of the aisle could make a very convincing and viable argument towards their case. On one hand, yes, Clowney is not on that Donald/Mack/Watt/Von level that many thought he would be. He’s had an injury history, and doesn’t have the sack numbers to back up his argument as a top edge rusher, what we drafted him to be. On the other hand, he’s still a very good player, he’s just now getting healthy, and is finally developing into the player we drafted him to be. You definitely don’t want your former first overall pick in the draft to walk in their prime for nothing, but you don’t want to hitch your wagon to them yet. I’m interested to see how Gaine handles this situation, but I think it’s beneficial to clowneys development, as well as our team that he’s in the building this offseason. As it stands now he won’t be, and I think it’s obviously very important that he’s there getting reps.
Like I said in another thread, this is a business. He’s not showing up unless he gets what he thinks he’s worth. So if we’re not gonna be the ones to give it to him, that’s fine; it’s upsetting to me personally because I think he’s a really good player and he’s still developing, but they need to make that trade before the draft. Because that will create yet another hole we need to fill with young talent
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Don't get me wrong, he's a very good player. But he's not a very good player frequently enough to command the attention over and money his contract will likely end up being.
If we can keep him locked up and not kill any financial flexibility, then sure thing. Absolutely keep him and try to coach him to play smarter and more consistently. But again, a guy getting that much dough shouldn't still require that coaching and a call for more consistency.
I agree, His case is so frustrating and difficult because you know he’s a supremely talented player, but he didn’t elevate his game to the next level yet. The leader of the defense level. He has more talent than most guys in the league but I truly don’t think he works as hard as those guys to perfect his craft. Maybe it’s just coaching. I personally believe if he had JJ’s motor and work ethic you’re looking at an all-pro and then some. It also makes you wonder if he’d benefit from a change of scenery. Somewhere like Atlanta or Seattle or anywhere that runs a base 4-3. Somewhere he’d have his hand in the ground on every play getting after the QB.
On the flip side of the coin, what can you get for him draft pick wise? Dee Ford whose had similar production returned a 2020 2nd. If that’s the case then I’m out. For me, it would take at least a first and I’d say a 2nd or 3rd to move him. The potential of finding someone of his caliber in the draft is very very slim. Not to mention every year may be JJ’s last, so losing him and clowney would be a huge blow to our defense. And this time next year we’d be scrambling for edge rushers like we are OL. Plug one hole in the boat to blow another. We have the cap, I say we do it. We can get out of Lamar, Whitney, and Colvins deal and that’d free up a lot of money for us to use as well. We’re fine financially
srrono
All Pro
Never mind I was repeating a bogus source.
Yea if it's a '19 second round pick then that's about right.
HaveMercy
Passing Through
I'm reminded of an old baseball adage: it's better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late. IF traded, Clowney probably won't bring as much in trade this year as we'd like, plus he may go on to have a really good year elsewhere. But what if he's reinjured or declines a lot there. Then, in hindsight, we might be happy to have gotten what we did in trade.
I’d love to know what he’s asking and what we’re offering. Depending on what he’s asking, it’s probably making it impossible to trade him because teams would be skeptical about giving him that huge contract
You think all clowney is worth is a mid second round pick?
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
If you are looking at his skills and potential upside, I'd say no. If you take into account his injury history and the potential affect on his longevity and future injuries, I can see that. I would like a low round pick (5th or after) this year (or next year) as well.
Sorry that’s not = value. Minimum of 1300 points on the value chart or I’m riding him till that knee gives out.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And that is what is lowering his value, that ride could end in the next game or in 5 years. Teams don't know so unless you find a real gambler for a trade partner I think a mid round second with maybe something like a 4th-6th is about the best you can do.
A trade partner who's willing to roll the dice ? Who fits that profile ? Jerry Jones, but he's already screwed up so many times with risky edge rushers who were wife beaters, or pot heads, or whatever ? Of course JD has no such off field issues, he's just a good guy, a good teammate with shixxt knees.
Who else might take a chance on Clowney ?
I wouldn’t take anything less than a first this year for clowney. He’s done everything we’ve asked off the edge we just need him sacking the QB more. But I feel like this year could be a breakout year for him. I want to see crennel put him in a wide-9 technique outside of the tackle and let him speed rush around the edge. He’s obviously strong, but he’s not JJ. He’s not going to power rush through a double team and get in the backfield. He needs to use that speed off the edge to get around guys then make his PR move to either get inside or around the tackle. Create as many one on one opportunities as possible. We had him at a five technique on a lot of plays and I just don’t understand that