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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
Dallas acquired Robert Quinn for a 2020 6th round pick so I dunno why some folks think Clowney would bring anything remotely close to first round pick ?
A few teams (AZ, Oak, Mia, Cinc ) be happy to get an elite run stopper close to double digit sack pro bowler for their defensive line. I don't see the Texans letting him go for less than a high second this year and a high first next .
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't know why the two are remotely in the same conversation.
Stat sheets show Quinns sack production is comparable to what JD has done, but granted Quinn is not ratted highly vs running plays while Clowney is a formidable run stopper, one of the best. So all in all Clowney is certainly a better player but don't believe there's 5 rounds of difference in their talent.
Maybe a better comparison is Dee Ford who only fetched a second round pick (again 2020 and not 2019) for the Chiefs in their trade to San Fran.
So anyway these people with these wildly inflated ideas of Clowneys value in a potential trade need to bring their expectations back down to planet earth.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
24.5 is comparable to 19 over the past 3 seasons? Mmkay.
Guess 59 QB hits is comparable to 33 too. And 53 TFLs is comparable to 20.
Geez you're stretching. Dee Ford had one good year after four as a backup.
And Clowney is 2 years younger than Ford, 3 younger than Quinn.
Comparing Clowney to these guys on the field doesn't make sense. The elephant in the room is injury plain & simple.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I don't think comparing Clowney's contract to other olb's or de's is far fetched. Rest assured his agent is doing just that if it means more money for clowney.
Do you want them to compare contracts with safetys and cbs?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
What do you think clowney's trade value is?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Who was comparing contracts? And I made no objection about position.
The discussion was trade value and the individuals being compared.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
So again, as I asked in my other post, what do you think his trade value is?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
This question isn't purely for cak. What do you think is a reasonable return for a clowney trade?
I'm already on record for suggesting a mid to late rd 1 plus a 4th rd pick.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't really care about a specific round(s), but think he's worth a package adding up to a mid 1st.
Ford had 13 sacks last year and of course Clowney has never had a double-digit year, not one since he's been in the league.
TFLs, QB hurries, etc is all fine & well but the money stat, the payoff for edge guys is sacks. Period.
I dunno 'bout Ford in the injury/durability department but Clowneys unfortunately is not at all good which adds much uncertainty to his availability and therefor his value.
High end of Clowneys value in this Draft IMO is a 2nd round pick, tops.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Still not certain why you don't see the connection in one de's trade value to another. They're not the same player but it is the same ballpark.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
As I've made real clear, I don't think they are same ballpark.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Idx and me think it is. It's purely market value. 2 out of 3. Doesn't mean anyone is right. I just dont think it's a stretch.
Lol. Re you kidding?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I disagree that its purely market value. Clowney, as much as I don't care for him myself, is the type of player that changes how a team plans their defense and forces other teams to change how they plan their offense. When he is playing at his potential he can shut down a run game and force QBs to be looking earlier than they may want to. That doesn't matter much to a Brady or a Luck but a mid tier QB that most teams have that can rattle them and force mistakes. Its not going to win you a SB but if your team is just looking to climb out of a hole and regularly get a winning season it can take you there.
I say Clowney would be worth a package equal to a first and, with the right trade partner, maybe a third in a later year. Maybe not an actual first but something say a second this year and a third next year or a fourth this year and first next year. I don't know the actual value of those just using them as an example. All this of course is dependent on if teams think his leg will hold.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Its funny that Clowney to Texans fans and apparently the front office is 'holding a bomb' in his knee and they wont commit .. yet there are how many teams now that have been rumored to inquire or who would be "in" on Clowney if made available? Soo yeahh my faith in this team at identifying and keeping homegrown talent around isnt very high, and so with any package I would guess that they would find a way to muck it up and Clowney would go on to have a long and successful career.
Based on history this is a fair post.
I actually hink they're going to use all of that cap space on Clowney (Whose knee will blow up into 1,000 pieces) and Watson (Whose neck will be broken do to the Texans org not learning a damn thing from what happend to Carr) to longterm extensions.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I doubt anyone doubts bomb exists, is risk worth keeping him for huge amount of GTD money. Other teams may be willing to bet. Two one year deals limit Texans risks. Also Clowney on another roster could bring that team more than he brings here increasing value to that team. It's not just a straight up dollar thing or Texans would have signed him for near what he wants.
zshawn10
All Pro
Chad Forbes@NFLDraftBites
Clowney could be had if Agent plays ball (Meaning signs tender to facilitate trade) which they’d only do if Extension came too. League sees Texans who know Clowney best & flush with cap room hesitant to pay Jadeveon. That’s a concern
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1113557338450026499
4:42 PM - Apr 3, 2019
Clowney could be had if Agent plays ball (Meaning signs tender to facilitate trade) which they’d only do if Extension came too. League sees Texans who know Clowney best & flush with cap room hesitant to pay Jadeveon. That’s a concern
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1113557338450026499
4:42 PM - Apr 3, 2019
badboy
Hall of Fame
But could be argued Texans hesitancy also includes having future HOF JJ Watt + a perceived good replacement Egiofor behind Clowney. Why offer a $50 m GTD deal when you have next two (if healthy) at about 35 % less. I think most teams realize Houston's position and would likely do same. Hopefully teams will want a starter like JD rather than 2-3 drafted players with no NFL history. If not, we just keep him.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Yeah that could be argued but then again a lot of things could be argued and they would make equal sense. The point is it’s not about what could be argued it’s about what reason any possible trade partners believe.
If they believe Texans are happy with him and are just looking to get 2-3 players for the price of one that’s great. If, however, they believe Texans are scared of his leg and want to dump him before it blows up that’s bad. It all depends on what other teams think is the reason.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Expecting Ejiofor to fill in for Clowney is not realistic. Ejiofor is a pass rush specialist .. THATS IT .. nothing added in the run game by having him in there for 3 downs. JJ WATT is also not Clowney when it comes to the run game, but a better player than any other DLineman on the team obviously. Tell me what are we saving the money for? I hear so many TExan fans take the "we cant spend that kind of money" but then what do you spend it on? Washed up OLinemen? Marginal secondary players? Just crazy that paying one of the best defensive players in the league turns into some kind of checkbook balancing exercise. If that really is the stance why keep him? Just trade him for whatever you can get now before the holdout.
Yep, we're sending a bad (public) message if trading him was our goal. It's entirely possible that the Texans are telling all comers that we're trying to get a trade-friendly deal done behind closed doors though.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thought that was what I said. Lol
badboy
Hall of Fame
The fact you think it's simply checkbook exercise says no reason to discuss more.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Dupe
Watching this one as it may show some value of Clowney
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...arcus-lawrence-getting-close-on-new-contract/
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...arcus-lawrence-getting-close-on-new-contract/
Lawrence & Clowney appear to be comparable players over the last couple seasons production wise to a point though I doubt that Lawrence is the force against rushing plays that JD is ?
Interesting same Draft class though JD is a year younger and Lawrence is clearly not the athletic freak that Clowney is.
Now the big question: what kind of an injury/durability history does Lawrence have ?
zshawn10
All Pro
[Garafolo] Try this again: DeMarcus Lawrence will get the most money in Year 1 for a defensive player ever, source says. He will beat Khalil Mack’s previous high-water mark of $31m. (I had tweeted $41m but the actual cash for Mack paid in the first league year was $31m. Corrected here.)
[Archer] The Cowboys have agreed to a five year, $105 million deal with DeMarcus Lawrence that includes $65 million guaranteed according to a source.
[Archer] The Cowboys have agreed to a five year, $105 million deal with DeMarcus Lawrence that includes $65 million guaranteed according to a source.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
To bad the texans have dragged their feet on this. A new bar has been set. Is he worth it, dunno. But the market has been set.
Maybe we can get him on a 1 yr prove it deal......
If I'm clowney I sit out unless I get market value.
Maybe we can get him on a 1 yr prove it deal......
If I'm clowney I sit out unless I get market value.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It is extremely good news they have been patient and wise. 15.6 GTD this season and about $20 next year is much smarter. We have him on a one year deal..not sure where you going?Look guys, if Texans were okay with Clowney's future health he would've had a deal weeks ago.
Exactly because in looking at Lawrence and Clowney side by side Clowney if fully intact is obviously a superior football player. So like I said, "if fully intact".
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I think this may lead Clowney to rest for a season if the Texans try to get him to play on a tag. Like I mentioned before.....Texans either need to get him signed or find someone willing to trade for him. If they fail to achieve either option....Clowney will probably be advised to sit out for the season and force the Texans hand.
If the Texans wait until next season to address this issue they'll lose any advantage they had left. Clowney will walk with little to no compensation.
If that’s the case then their idiots. They should of traded him after last season as soon as possible. The closer we get to The deadline of signing the tenders he more obvious we’re on a bad situation with him and The less we can get for him in a trade. And if we don’t teade him he most likely is going to sit out the entire season and we will end up getting nothing for him.
Why would Clowney sign a one year deal after coming back from a major injury and proving himself. From his POV he’s proven the last three years he’s recovered from a major injury and is an elite defender. Why would he accept a 1 year deal and risk re-injuring himself and risk never being able to get another big contract. I guarantee you there is a team out there that will give him a long term contract.
I think the Texans really want to keep Clowney, they just have different opinions on the value. They wanted to keep HB also, but they valued him at say $10M and HB and his agents valued him at say $16 M... HB chose to go to KC where he got $14M. They've just removed the choices of Clowney for now trying to extend the negotiating period. And holding out for an entire season has never worked out for a player to the best of my knowledge
I would agree with this, but look at what Mack brought the Raiders just before last season started as a template for what is most likely to happen.
I actually could see a draft day trade, depending on how the draft falls for teams that might want to trade for Clowney.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Sorry didn't see if fully intact in post and was replying to you saying it was bad they waited.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Anything can happen ,but it's such a good draft for defensive linemen. I think that hinders his trade value. I'm fine with franchising him this year and testing his trade market next offseason.
They always manage not value guys like HB the same as SB contenders do.
I wonder if Chiefs might trade a 1st and a 4th this yr and a 2020 2nd for Clowney.
This way the Texans could pull off a comeback Salary Cap comeback win on their way to a Salary Cap championship. BTW, If I thought they would use the cap space I would be for them trading Clowney.
But you know my thoughts about the Texans org on this issue.
badboy
Hall of Fame
No way I see a sit I out for year as my understanding of Doc's eval is that doesn't improve or negate med issue. Short rests to some recovery from swelling and pain maybe... Clowney needs to be on time day one of any non-GTD year.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Both of their teams should have significant questions about "if fully intact." Clowney for obvious reasons. But the Cowboys ultimately may not be happy with giving Lawrence his big pay day. He will be undergoing shoulder labrum surgery soon for a problem he has played with for the past 2 years (causing increasing damage). This is likely to keep him out for at least 3-4 months. He will be fortunate to be functionally back by the beginning of the season, let alone TC. A recent study re. labrum surgery in football players published in the Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine Oct 2018 concluded that the first season back showed compromised return of performance in both the conservatively treated and surgically treated players. In the surgically repaired group, the snaps during the second year increased ~20% over the first year. The positions most significantly affected were linemen............DL greater than OL. Jerry Jones and company have thrown the dice. I'm not sure that it will turn out much wiser of a choice than if the Texans choose to follow the same route.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
I believe Gaines wanted and thought he could get LTD with JD. That was the plan... most trades don't seem to be spur of moment accept first offer; many occur as a deadline of some sort approaches as with many negotiated contracts. We see that played out daily on world stage in politics, trade agreement, union deals, etc. He has to sign this tender sooner or later if he wants LTD with any team. I agree there is at minimum one team willing to pay him. We know Texans are if as JB says money is worth risk.
"Thrown the dice".
Yea ole Jer throws the dice often on edge rushers it would seem, like another one of his pass rushers whos contract he also extended, Randy Gegory who just got hit with another suspension for using pot.
And if he refuses to sign it? I believe he won’t.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Do you realize how rare that is?