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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

CloakNNNdagger said:
The way Clowney and Watt have been used is directly related to their history of injuries and surgeries, especially the type of their injuries...............and in attempts to protect them from extending their injuries, and prolonging their careers.
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Which has nothing to do with my statement. There are a significant amount of snaps that our Front seven have ZERO chance at affecting because teams take advantage of our HORRIBLE defensive alignments.

You put what or clowney in a defense where the coordinator takes away the quick pass more and their numbers would go up significantly.

Does anyone know where to find the numbers of quick passes thrown per game?
 
mussop said:
Which has nothing to do with my statement. There are a significant amount of snaps that our Front seven have ZERO chance at affecting because teams take advantage of our HORRIBLE defensive alignments.

You put what or clowney in a defense where the coordinator takes away the quick pass more and their numbers would go up significantly.

Does anyone know where to find the numbers of quick passes thrown per game?
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What release time constitutes a quick pass play?
 
powda said:
What release time constitutes a quick pass play?
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Good question. I would say three step drops and less? Also where the QB takes the snap out of shotgun and immediately throws the ball to a WR where the CB is playing 10 to 12 yards off LOS. You know, how Brady destroys us every time we play NE.
 
mussop said:
Good question. I would say three step drops and less? Also where the QB takes the snap out of shotgun and immediately throws the ball to a WR where the CB is playing 10 to 12 yards off LOS. You know, how Brady destroys us every time we play NE.
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I don't disagree with you fundamentally, I just wonder do we have the talent in the secondary to line up close and prevent ty hilton's in every game? Maybe we dont have that talent? Maybe rac is conservative in that respect?

I tend to agree with you. Add 1 second due to secondary alignment, and the dl looks far better.
 
I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about how RACs game plan was to
powda said:
I don't disagree with you fundamentally, I just wonder do we have the talent in the secondary to line up close and prevent ty hilton's in every game? Maybe we dont have that talent? Maybe rac is conservative in that respect?

I tend to agree with you. Add 1 second due to secondary alignment, and the dl looks far better.
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I heard somewhere (don’t remember, podcast/610am??) and they were saying that’s RACs MO. Keep everything underneath. Force the other team to to take as many plays as possible giving the defense more chances to create turnovers or make big plays. If he’s just doing it because of a talent issue then get the man the talent he needs. If that’s his true style/scheme then he needs to go. That **** isn’t going to cut it in this league. We have one of the most talented front seven in the NFL. Jam/press the WRs and force the QB to hold the ball longer. Give the defense more time to get to the QB. Half a second and most of those QB hits and knock downs become sacks.
 
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mussop said:
Which has nothing to do with my statement. There are a significant amount of snaps that our Front seven have ZERO chance at affecting because teams take advantage of our HORRIBLE defensive alignments.

You put what or clowney in a defense where the coordinator takes away the quick pass more and their numbers would go up significantly.

Does anyone know where to find the numbers of quick passes thrown per game?
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It has all to do with what you stated............complaining about the way Watt and Clowney have been utilized.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
It has all to do with what you stated............complaining about the way Watt and Clowney have been utilized.
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I never complained about the way we use Watt and Clowney. I was complaining about the way we use our CBs. Smart good QBs see our CB s so far off the wr it’s an easy few yards with very little risk.
 
mussop said:
I never complained about the way we use Watt and Clowney. I was complaining about the way we use our CBs. Smart good QBs see our CB s so far off the wr it’s an easy few yards with very little risk.
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Do you still have an "in" with Texans?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
If you’re moving on from Clowney you better be able to replace him instantly or the defense will suffer big time.

People can undervalue him all they want but he does a lot for the defense and no it doesn’t always result in sexy stats.
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It feels like me and you are the only two around here who don't want to trade Clowney …. He doesn't always put up "stats" but he makes an impact far more often than people are giving him credit for - he's always round the ball and always disruptive - Teams MUST game plan for him.

You aren't going to replace Clowney with JAG.

If its me , I'm trying to work out a reasonable long term deal with the guy … He's not Aaron Donald or JJ Watt in his prime but he's nearly as impactful.
The problem with the defense was the inability to cover anyone - the back end was just bad & the middle was just mediocre at best.
 
Corrosion said:
It feels like me and you are the only two around here who don't want to trade Clowney …. He doesn't always put up "stats" but he makes an impact far more often than people are giving him credit for - he's always round the ball and always disruptive - Teams MUST game plan for him.

You aren't going to replace Clowney with JAG.

If its me , I'm trying to work out a reasonable long term deal with the guy … He's not Aaron Donald or JJ Watt in his prime but he's nearly as impactful.
The problem with the defense was the inability to cover anyone - the back end was just bad & the middle was just mediocre at best.
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I dont just want to trade Clowney.

I want to get something like moving up to #9 and taking Dillard plus a 3rd rd pick.
 
Corrosion said:
It feels like me and you are the only two around here who don't want to trade Clowney …. He doesn't always put up "stats" but he makes an impact far more often than people are giving him credit for - he's always round the ball and always disruptive - Teams MUST game plan for him.

You aren't going to replace Clowney with JAG.

If its me , I'm trying to work out a reasonable long term deal with the guy … He's not Aaron Donald or JJ Watt in his prime but he's nearly as impactful.
The problem with the defense was the inability to cover anyone - the back end was just bad & the middle was just mediocre at best.
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I dont just want to trade Clowney.

I want to get something like moving up to #9 and taking Dillard plus a 3rd rd pick. Gotta find a way to be a player in FA next yr.
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont just want to trade Clowney.

I want to get something like moving up to #9 and taking Dillard plus a 3rd rd pick. Gotta find a way to be a player in FA next yr.
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I don't want to trade Clowney either but would if it was a great offer. More than just swapping 1st round picks. Something like an additional one this year and a 3rd maybe
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont just want to trade Clowney.

I want to get something like moving up to #9 and taking Dillard plus a 3rd rd pick. Gotta find a way to be a player in FA next yr.
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Not enough. I really want to see what our front 7 looks like with better CBs. Hopefully we get some with traits that allow RAC to be more aggressive, but will he? When we do draft a CB the one they draft will be telling.

I really believe “fixing” the secondary is just as important as fixing the OL. Getting rid of clowney would be making a strength a weakness. I don’t want to trade him but if someone got stupid with an offer yeah go ahead. But it’s going to have to something like a first this year and next. Or a first a third and a good player. Patrick Peterson and their second round pick.
 
Corrosion said:
It feels like me and you are the only two around here who don't want to trade Clowney …. He doesn't always put up "stats" but he makes an impact far more often than people are giving him credit for - he's always round the ball and always disruptive - Teams MUST game plan for him.

You aren't going to replace Clowney with JAG.

If its me , I'm trying to work out a reasonable long term deal with the guy … He's not Aaron Donald or JJ Watt in his prime but he's nearly as impactful.
The problem with the defense was the inability to cover anyone - the back end was just bad & the middle was just mediocre at best.
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The only reason I want to trade Clowney is because I think the knee is a ticking time bomb. Take that out of the equation and i am right there with you. That said, I am not trading him unless I get significant value for him.
 
Corrosion said:
It feels like me and you are the only two around here who don't want to trade Clowney …. He doesn't always put up "stats" but he makes an impact far more often than people are giving him credit for - he's always round the ball and always disruptive - Teams MUST game plan for him.

You aren't going to replace Clowney with JAG.

If its me , I'm trying to work out a reasonable long term deal with the guy … He's not Aaron Donald or JJ Watt in his prime but he's nearly as impactful.
The problem with the defense was the inability to cover anyone - the back end was just bad & the middle was just mediocre at best.
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Oh y'all aren't the only ones

for me its as simple as the bolded.

and unless they plan on replacing one of RAC's favorite (and more productive) 'toys' with a third-day pick, it significantly re-prioritizes the draft.
 
There has been some talk about Clowney in recent days that leads me to believe that there may be something on the medicals that may be hindering them signing him long term or from teams dealing for him. Im not 100% on this but thought it was interesting and wanted to pass it along. There have been at least 4 teams that have inquired about clowney via trade thus far. Asking price from Houston was a 1st and a mid round pick or experienced player. I still dont believe they move him and i think they will eventually sign him long term but its interesting that they arent shying away from inquiries.
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http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/official-texans-offseason.295544/page-101#post-12289217
 
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zshawn10 said:
Chad Forbes@NFLDraftBites

Quiet rumbling Owners Meeting... #Texans Not Interested longterm deal on Jadeveon Clowney who was Franchise Tagged. And if he’s willing to sign the tender, a trade definitely possible. #Chiefs seen as natural landing spot.


4:41 PM - Mar 27, 2019
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So we can't trade until he signs the franchise agreement? Trading Clowney is the only way to make a significant change at this point.
Still not sure what he is worth. Again I will be surprised if it is as high as a mid to high 1 and a 3.
 
gafftop said:
So we can't trade until he signs the franchise agreement? Trading Clowney is the only way to make a significant change at this point.
Still not sure what he is worth. Again I will be surprised if it is as high as a mid to high 1 and a 3.
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The closer to the season we get the more leverage clowney has (and it gives him a better chance to see his true market value with other signings/extensions.) He wont sign before the draft. Anything we get in trade would be for 2020 picks most likely and not help us this year.

Imo, we get a mid to late 1 and 4th round pick at best.
 
gafftop said:
So we can't trade until he signs the franchise agreement? Trading Clowney is the only way to make a significant change at this point.
Still not sure what he is worth. Again I will be surprised if it is as high as a mid to high 1 and a 3.
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I'm still thinking he returns a RD1 (mid) and RD4 (early) pick.
 
great idea, lets give away one of the few guys who is actually making a difference for this team for a guy in the draft who could bust (especially with this front office identifying talent) because the team won't commit on the notion that his knee has an expiration date even after 2 solid years of production. SMH. The Texans currently are slated to have the 2nd most cap money again next year, but Gaine and OBrien want to accumulate interest on the funds or pay guys who are washed up or underperforming and banking on resurgence instead of just paying their homegrown guys who have shown that they are elite. Such a hard on to be just like the Patriots that they think the same type of personnel decisions apply. Misguided bunch.

All JDC has to do to KILL this front offices' leverage is say he would hold out on a franchise tag and BOOM 1st rounders?? LOL no way. Its a game of chicken that the TExans just cant win. Best bet would be to try and pry a first from OAK before it gets messy because Chucky might just fall for it. Even then you guys know that these brainiacs would just select another TE with the extra pick!
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I'm still thinking he returns a RD1 (mid) and RD4 (early) pick.
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Where do folks get the early, mid, late stuff? It's not like teams have a deck of picks spread thru all the rounds. If a team is early and doesn't want to give up tgeir 1st they have to come up with some other package like the Texans giving 2 2nds and swapping 1sts to get Schaub.
 
Uncle Rico said:
great idea, lets give away one of the few guys who is actually making a difference for this team for a guy in the draft who could bust (especially with this front office identifying talent) because the team won't commit on the notion that his knee has an expiration date even after 2 solid years of production. SMH. The Texans currently are slated to have the 2nd most cap money again next year, but Gaine and OBrien want to accumulate interest on the funds or pay guys who are washed up or underperforming and banking on resurgence instead of just paying their homegrown guys who have shown that they are elite. Such a hard on to be just like the Patriots that they think the same type of personnel decisions apply. Misguided bunch.

All JDC has to do to KILL this front offices' leverage is say he would hold out on a franchise tag and BOOM 1st rounders?? LOL no way. Its a game of chicken that the TExans just cant win. Best bet would be to try and pry a first from OAK before it gets messy because Chucky might just fall for it. Even then you guys know that these brainiacs would just select another TE with the extra pick!
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Has anyone actually heard the numbers Clowney and his camp are expecting in a new contract? Maybe he's going Boras and Kuechel.....just pricing or valuing himself out of what the Texans believe he's worth. Personally, I think Clowney has had his moments, both good and bad, on the football field. I don't think Clowney is what makes this defense tick, he plays a part but Watt is still the heart of this defense. I think the Texans could draft a true EDGE this season and get very good results.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Has anyone actually heard the numbers Clowney and his camp are expecting in a new contract? Maybe he's going Boras and Kuechel.....just pricing or valuing himself out of what the Texans believe he's worth. Personally, I think Clowney has had his moments, both good and bad, on the football field. I don't think Clowney is what makes this defense tick, he plays a part but Watt is still the heart of this defense. I think the Texans could draft a true EDGE this season and get very good results.
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Clowney in the run game is vital. He single handedly destroys opponents run concepts and gameplans. Everyone touts Mack as deserving of all the money he got, but he had very similar numbers to Clowney in a per game basis over their careers and considering he's played about one FULL SEASON more worth of games. Aaron Donald is more impactful than both of those guys, but the market dictates what these guys get, and if the Texans dont step up they will lose a very important piece to their defense dont get it confused. In RACs psycho fronts and bear packages Clowney roaming around plays havoc on the offense. Its not as easy as saying "we'll just draft the next great edge guy at 23" its just not realistic to get that type of talent late in the draft (especially with the brain surgeons in charge of making the picks in the first place) or to say that "Mercilus or Player X would fill in just fine" (Mercilus regression last year was scary into itself) I would hope that the TExans would offer something in excess of 100Ms, but fall shy of those other two guys that are mentioned, at least then they show that they are serious, and it would be JDC who is looking for more. Not fair to compare a first ballot guy in JJ to JDC they arent the same type of player, and yet JJ was the highest paid defensive guy for a brief moment himself, its the market that keeps trending up.

If these guys can offer stupid money to Solder and Trent Brown in back to back seasons as marginal players, why cant they step up for their own guy in JDC? Again if falls back to the 'bad knee' narrative and guys paralyzing themselves with over analysis of something not even certain to happen within the first few years of the contract anyway. Furthermore, there would be plenty of health addendums in the contract to protect the team from that very scenario.
 
D2wWfQMVYAApXfk.jpg


https://twitter.com/FrontOfficeNFL/status/1111287938225078272
 
maverick512000 said:
I will say many posters when I see they've posted my first thought is what funny, interesting or dumbass thing as (Insert name here) posted this time. When I see you've posted my first thought is, what news is being broken this time.
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What is this feeling I am having in my stomach? It's warm and inviting :)
 
Robert Quinn is being traded to the Dallas Cowboys.

The Dallas Morning News'David Moore reports the team is sending a 2020 sixth-round pick to the Miami Dolphins for the defensive end.
***
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2019/03/28/cowboys-reportedly-tradingfor-de-robert-quinn-instant-analysis-help-dallas-defense?f=r#/questions
***
I dunno how comparable is Robert Quinn to JD Clowney ?
He's a couple years older with an impressive sack history as an NFL edge rusher and certainly has like Clowney had injury concerns.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Clowney in the run game is vital. He single handedly destroys opponents run concepts and gameplans. Everyone touts Mack as deserving of all the money he got, but he had very similar numbers to Clowney in a per game basis over their careers and considering he's played about one FULL SEASON more worth of games. Aaron Donald is more impactful than both of those guys, but the market dictates what these guys get, and if the Texans dont step up they will lose a very important piece to their defense dont get it confused. In RACs psycho fronts and bear packages Clowney roaming around plays havoc on the offense. Its not as easy as saying "we'll just draft the next great edge guy at 23" its just not realistic to get that type of talent late in the draft (especially with the brain surgeons in charge of making the picks in the first place) or to say that "Mercilus or Player X would fill in just fine" (Mercilus regression last year was scary into itself) I would hope that the TExans would offer something in excess of 100Ms, but fall shy of those other two guys that are mentioned, at least then they show that they are serious, and it would be JDC who is looking for more. Not fair to compare a first ballot guy in JJ to JDC they arent the same type of player, and yet JJ was the highest paid defensive guy for a brief moment himself, its the market that keeps trending up.

If these guys can offer stupid money to Solder and Trent Brown in back to back seasons as marginal players, why cant they step up for their own guy in JDC? Again if falls back to the 'bad knee' narrative and guys paralyzing themselves with over analysis of something not even certain to happen within the first few years of the contract anyway. Furthermore, there would be plenty of health addendums in the contract to protect the team from that very scenario.
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Apparently they are scared of clowneys injury yet they are committing $10m (with incentives) to seantrel and kalil who haven't been healthy in years. That said those are one year deals.

But they also didn't mind Rankin's foot and ankle injuries.

They must not think Clowney is worth it even if healthy
 
Uncle Rico said:
great idea, lets give away one of the few guys who is actually making a difference for this team for a guy in the draft who could bust (especially with this front office identifying talent) because the team won't commit on the notion that his knee has an expiration date even after 2 solid years of production. SMH. The Texans currently are slated to have the 2nd most cap money again next year, but Gaine and OBrien want to accumulate interest on the funds or pay guys who are washed up or underperforming and banking on resurgence instead of just paying their homegrown guys who have shown that they are elite. Such a hard on to be just like the Patriots that they think the same type of personnel decisions apply. Misguided bunch.

All JDC has to do to KILL this front offices' leverage is say he would hold out on a franchise tag and BOOM 1st rounders?? LOL no way. Its a game of chicken that the TExans just cant win. Best bet would be to try and pry a first from OAK before it gets messy because Chucky might just fall for it. Even then you guys know that these brainiacs would just select another TE with the extra pick!
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Agreed with everything but the leverage part. If Clowney was to hold out that would further the Texans goal of winning the Salary cap championship. But it wont help bring a Lombardi to Kirby.
 
The Texans need to realize that this Clowney situation is getting a little long in the tooth. I could see Clowney sitting for the season if he's tagged for this season. If we all think Clowney is playing on a ticking time bomb of a knee.....you don't think that exact thought hasn't crossed his mind?

Texans need to shite or get off the pot. Sign Clowney long term and move forward or get very pro-active in finding a team that would trade for Clowney and get him the contract he's looking for. In all seriousness, I'd be good if he's signed and I'd be fine if he was traded to the NFL for a couple of picks.

If they were to move Clowney......my first move would be to take care of Watson now so he's no longer an issue as the team starts to improve the offense around him.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The Texans need to realize that this Clowney situation is getting a little long in the tooth. I could see Clowney sitting for the season if he's tagged for this season. If we all think Clowney is playing on a ticking time bomb of a knee.....you don't think that exact thought hasn't crossed his mind?

Texans need to shite or get off the pot. Sign Clowney long term and move forward or get very pro-active in finding a team that would trade for Clowney and get him the contract he's looking for. In all seriousness, I'd be good if he's signed and I'd be fine if he was traded to the NFL for a couple of picks.

If they were to move Clowney......my first move would be to take care of Watson now so he's no longer an issue as the team starts to improve the offense around him.
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I really do think they are trying to move him but no team is biting. Even with Clowney I think he is being silent on it, as far as I know, because he knows they are trying to trade him but not only aren't teams offering anything of value to the Texans they aren't offering him a contract that's much better than what the Texans will pay him. The problem is this seems to be a year where the big spenders all went offense with Bell and the two Browns. The only exception was KC with badger but even that money wasn't Clowney level. Even his own agent maybe telling him this is not the year to push because teams wanting to make a splash have already done it and other teams aren't adding 0s to checks this year.

I don't know this it just makes sense to me.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The Texans need to realize that this Clowney situation is getting a little long in the tooth. I could see Clowney sitting for the season if he's tagged for this season. If we all think Clowney is playing on a ticking time bomb of a knee.....you don't think that exact thought hasn't crossed his mind?
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Sitting down in a huff while holding a bomb with a fuse of indeterminate length makes zero sense.

If they were to move Clowney......my first move would be to take care of Watson now so he's no longer an issue as the team starts to improve the offense around him.
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Can't do anything until 2020 league year. And why waste 2 years of rookie contract?
 
maverick512000 said:
I really do think they are trying to move him but no team is biting. Even with Clowney I think he is being silent on it, as far as I know, because he knows they are trying to trade him but not only aren't teams offering anything of value to the Texans they aren't offering him a contract that's much better than what the Texans will pay him. The problem is this seems to be a year where the big spenders all went offense with Bell and the two Browns. The only exception was KC with badger but even that money wasn't Clowney level. Even his own agent maybe telling him this is not the year to push because teams wanting to make a splash have already done it and other teams aren't adding 0s to checks this year.

I don't know this it just makes sense to me.
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I think it's just the fans getting antsy. Texans can do nothing with Clowney until he signs the tender, and Clowney knows he has until what, July 15? It's not even April yet
 
JDC "can" be an absolutely unstoppable force in a game. The question becomes how many times a game (and how many games a season) does he actually bring it? The Texans have been in the position of having two superstars on the D-Line that can wreak havok at will, but are rarely healthy at the same time.

Clowney "on paper" looks to be equivalent to the top-tier Defensive players out there, but I'm waiting for that consistency over a season, and stepping it up in the playoffs.

I think Clowney is easily worth the $20-24 million a season shown by Zshawn above (especially considering the ever-inflating nature of NFL contracts), but of the players he's compared against though, none have missed more than a couple of games to injury in their entire career. The Texans should have offered a multi-year deal, but shouldn't break the bank on the guarantees, given the often tenuous nature of his health and motor.
 
Eagles are not done: Some rumblings in Vegas that they are in on Clowney if Texans get serious about moving his huge cap # elsewhere.
Teams like Chiefs, Jets, Rams, Lions, Pats also rumored to have interest. #VegasKnows

Texans aren’t serious as of now but things could change

— Vegas Gambling Steam (@Pregame_Steam) March 29, 2019


Also him and Incerated BOB broke the Howard to Eagles trade yesterday; however him and Albright think for sure Kyler is going #1:

NFL Rumors: Bears still discussing trading (RB) Jordan Howard with Eagles and Raiders two leaders, possible third team could jump in depending on price #IB

— IB AXELROD (@incarceratedbob) March 14, 2019


Eagles heist just took place for RB Howard #Bears #VegasKnows

— Vegas Gambling Steam (@Pregame_Steam) March 29, 2019
 
Uncle Rico said:
great idea, lets give away one of the few guys who is actually making a difference for this team for a guy in the draft who could bust
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Going all in on the draft, they’re apparently banking their entire future for guys in the draft who could bust.
 
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