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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

The longer the Texan’s Big Brains do nothing, the more I am afraid they are going to sign JD to a big contract as their big move. We need OL, secondary,wr, and rb more than signing JD. Again my feeling is playoff caliber teams can nullify our front 7 as we saw in last few games and playoffs. The only substantial move we can make other than a couple lower tier FAs is to trade JD for a couple of semi-high draft choices or maybe a good player OL or secondary preferred and draft choice/s
As always just my opinion
 
amazing80 said:
Not really. The gamble wasn't about money it was about his health. The risk of being injured and losing out on a long term deal wasn't worth it. He may have "lost" 14.5 million by sitting out, but he guaranteed his health for this off-season to be able to sign the deal he did.
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I wouldn't have posted what I did if I had read this post.
 
amazing80 said:
Not really. The gamble wasn't about money it was about his health. The risk of being injured and losing out on a long term deal wasn't worth it. He may have "lost" 14.5 million by sitting out, but he guaranteed his health for this off-season to be able to sign the deal he did.
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It was essentially a rather expensive (14.5M) insurance policy that netted him at least 35M in the end. And fair enough.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
We have direct comps

Mack--the best edge player



Dee ford- good, emerging edge player



IMO, Clowney is positioned between these to in terms of value that he should get in terms of draft picks and contract value...who he is closer to is a really good discussion.
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I can't consider either Mack or Ford as direct comps..............as both are established pass rushers with significant sack numbers. Although media continue to refer to Clowney as a top passer rusher, for whatever positives he may have Clowney is no way a top pass rusher/sack producer.............and that is what teams max value.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I can't consider either Mack or Ford as direct comps..............as both are established pass rushers with significant sack numbers. Although media continue to refer to Clowney as a top passer rusher, for whatever positives he may have Clowney is no way a top pass rusher/sack producer.............and that is what teams max value.
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The only real point is that they are all considered "edge" players..i.e. 3-4 OLB, 4-3 end. You're making an argument that agent or Gm might make to move price versus general classification.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I think it was Seth Payne who said Clowney was the best DE in the NFL vs the run .
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I think this is easily the case.

People really don’t give him enough Credit here. He doesn’t make the Flashy Watt type plays but he also is more solid against the run in his responsibilities. It’s almost impossible to run at him.

Add on top of that he’s a pretty good pass rusher.

That’s why I said earlier that they better have a plan to replace him because he does so much for this defense.

Even on passing plays where he’s not accumulating stats he’s running stunts and freeing other and/or collapsing the pocket.

Dude is a monster and if not for his knee there is 0 chance I’d even entertain trading him given how good he is and the current make up of the team.
 
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There are two negatives about Clowney - his injury history and his discipline on the field. He gets way too many penalties and overextends on some plays. That being said, dude is a beast and without the injury concerns I would gladly give him a contract a little under what Mack got. The way it is, I am glad we used the franchise tag and I would trade him for a first and a mid-rounder...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I think this is easily the case.

People really don’t give him enough Credit here. He doesn’t make the Flashy Watt type plays but he also is more solid against the run in his responsibilities. It’s almost impossible to run at him.

Add on top of that he’s a pretty good pass rusher.

That’s why I said earlier that they better have a plan to replace him because he does so much for this defense.

Even on passing plays where he’s not accumulating stats he’s running stunts and freeing other and/or collapsing the pocket.

Dude is a monster and if not for his knee there is 0 chance I’d even entertain trading him given how good he is and the current make up of the team.
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Couldn't agree more.
Don't understand why folks want to leave JJ Watt as the sole DL that offenses have to focus on stopping.
 
LikeMike said:
There are two negatives about Clowney - his injury history and his discipline on the field. He gets way too many penalties and overextends on some plays. That being said, dude is a beast and without the injury concerns I would gladly give him a contract a little under what Mack got. The way it is, I am glad we used the franchise tag and I would trade him for a first and a mid-rounder...
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JD Clowney is a genuinely great athlete and a very good football player with whom we would have already reached a new long-term contract agreement some time ago if not for his unfortunate injury history.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I think this is easily the case.

People really don’t give him enough Credit here. He doesn’t make the Flashy Watt type plays but he also is more solid against the run in his responsibilities. It’s almost impossible to run at him.

Add on top of that he’s a pretty good pass rusher.

That’s why I said earlier that they better have a plan to replace him because he does so much for this defense.

Even on passing plays where he’s not accumulating stats he’s running stunts and freeing other and/or collapsing the pocket.

Dude is a monster and if not for his knee there is 0 chance I’d even entertain trading him given how good he is and the current make up of the team.
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His first step is as fast as any in the league - it's what makes him so dangerous.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I think this is easily the case.

People really don’t give him enough Credit here. He doesn’t make the Flashy Watt type plays but he also is more solid against the run in his responsibilities. It’s almost impossible to run at him.

Add on top of that he’s a pretty good pass rusher.

That’s why I said earlier that they better have a plan to replace him because he does so much for this defense.

Even on passing plays where he’s not accumulating stats he’s running stunts and freeing other and/or collapsing the pocket.

Dude is a monster and if not for his knee there is 0 chance I’d even entertain trading him given how good he is and the current make up of the team.
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His first step is as fast as any dlineman in the league - it's what makes him so dangerous.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Just thought of this and it has no merit except to see where we’re at . Would anybody trade Clowney for Leonard Fournette ?
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I don't want Leonard Fournette so I don't think I'd consider it. I want a draft pick and ideally a #1 pick. Fournette busted loose on us when he was a rookie and that made a big impression on Texans fans but he doesn't even average 4 yards a carry and in two attempts has yet to play 16 games in a season. Yes we can replace Clowney for less money and get exactly what he gives us more or less. We can also do better than Leonard Fournette for less than he'll want I think.
 
My opinion is probably not the majority but I think Clowney is better than Mack but not by much. He does draw way too many penalties, but he plays effectively all over the line and has incredible quickness for a man his size. Dont get me wrong...I wanted Mack over Clowney in the draft and Mack is an amazing player. I'm just a Clowney convert since he took over the line in 2017.
LikeMike said:
There are two negatives about Clowney - his injury history and his discipline on the field. He gets way too many penalties and overextends on some plays. That being said, dude is a beast and without the injury concerns I would gladly give him a contract a little under what Mack got. The way it is, I am glad we used the franchise tag and I would trade him for a first and a mid-rounder...
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
infantrycak said:
Clowney has a whopping 4 sacks less than Mack over the past two seasons and 12 more tackles for loss. Clowney hs 2 more QB hits. Not sure what you're watching.
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Mollywhopper said:
I can't speak for all optics, but the two optics lodged in the front of my face have also seen Clowney be dangerous and change games. So..
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I'm looking at a more fair value comparison, especially when thinking long-term contract. Clowney in the last 4 years has had 29 sacks. Mack has tallied 49 in that same period.
 
frethack said:
My opinion is probably not the majority but I think Clowney is better than Mack but not by much. He does draw way too many penalties, but he plays effectively all over the line and has incredible quickness for a man his size. Dont get me wrong...I wanted Mack over Clowney in the draft and Mack is an amazing player. I'm just a Clowney convert since he took over the line in 2017.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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Funny that the only place you'd ever hear anyone even put them two in the same sentence would be on a Texans board. Nowhere else in the country is Clowney even mentioned in the same breath as Mack. Clowney is a good player. He won't be worth anywhere near 18 Mill a season though. If we don't trade him we are just a very stupid franchise.
 
Texecutioner said:
Funny that the only place you'd ever hear anyone even put them two in the same sentence would be on a Texans board. Nowhere else in the country is Clowney even mentioned in the same breath as Mack. Clowney is a good player. He won't be worth anywhere near 18 Mill a season though. If we don't trade him we are just a very stupid franchise.
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As I said...my opinion.

Binary thinking sir...its a fallacy

I'd trade him because of the knee injury, but it would still need to be a 1st+

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Mollywhopper said:
I can't speak for all optics, but the two optics lodged in the front of my face have also seen Clowney be dangerous and change games. So..
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Yes....see strip, sack against Indy when they were going in for the score. Last year??
And also the jumping offside against Indy to let them kneel and not get the ball back to us. So, there's that too.

I like him but like the majority I wouldn't give him a long term contract.
 
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Why does Clowney have to be compared to Mack except for contract if that? He was listed as #1 off season free agent before tag and if traded should bring very significant offer or no trade. If traded he should be replaced this draft with a similar type player. IMO, any GM wanting Clowney will look at what he brings not what Mack is doing elsewhere because they will not be getting Mack.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm looking at a more fair value comparison, especially when thinking long-term contract. Clowney in the last 4 years has had 29 sacks. Mack has tallied 49 in that same period.
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Yeah, if you want to get that 4th year in where JD only played 9 games.

Last 3 years it's 34 - 24.5 in sacks, 53 - 39 TFL in favor of JD. Mack 66-59 QB hits.

Last 2 years Mack 23-18.5 sacks, JD 37-25 TFL, JD 42-40 QBH.

Easy to pick and choose stats to make an argument.
 
Speedy said:
Yeah, if you want to get that 4th year in where JD only played 9 games.

Last 3 years it's 34 - 24.5 in sacks, 53 - 39 TFL in favor of JD. Mack 66-59 QB hits.

Last 2 years Mack 23-18.5 sacks, JD 37-25 TFL, JD 42-40 QBH.

Easy to pick and choose stats to make an argument.
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I guess in comparison it's much easier to ignore Clowney's injury history and games lost to injury than to point out Khalil Mack has only missed 2 games in 80 starts.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm looking at a more fair value comparison, especially when thinking long-term contract. Clowney in the last 4 years has had 29 sacks. Mack has tallied 49 in that same period.
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Seriously? Clowney as injured??? Compare healthy years. Clowney is the better player and if it weren’t for our lousy secondary and the way we use them Watt and clowney wouldbhave significantly better numbers.

When you play your DBs 10 to 12 yards off the LOS it allows offenses to consistently do quick passes taking opportunities away from DL to make plays.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I guess in comparison it's much easier to ignore Clowney's injury history and games lost to injury than to point out Khalil Mack has only missed 2 games in 80 starts.
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Yeah, he got off to a slow start because of injury, but his health the last 3 years I think has surprised even you. And you still chose to include an injury season 4 years ago to skew your stat comparison. So there's that.
 
mussop said:
Seriously? Clowney as injured??? Compare healthy years. Clowney is the better player and if it weren’t for our lousy secondary and the way we use them Watt and clowney wouldbhave significantly better numbers.

When you play your DBs 10 to 12 yards off the LOS it allows offenses to consistently do quick passes taking opportunities away from DL to make plays.
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The way Clowney and Watt have been used is directly related to their history of injuries and surgeries, especially the type of their injuries...............and in attempts to protect them from extending their injuries, and prolonging their careers.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The way Clowney and Watt have been used is directly related to their history of injuries and surgeries, especially the type of their injuries...............and in attempts to protect them from extending their injuries, and prolonging their careers.
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That's a good thing right?
 
Speedy said:
Yeah, he got off to a slow start because of injury, but his health the last 3 years I think has surprised even you. And you still chose to include an injury season 4 years ago to skew your stat comparison. So there's that.
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I have posted several times that I have been impressed how well Clowney has done after his serious knee surgery. It's easy to forget the numerous injuries he has dealt with since, including surgery on his opposite knee as well and a back problem the beginning of the last season and a recurrent groin problem (post previous bilateral sports hernia surgery) the latter portion of last season. However, the question of value relates to the future. No surgeon would argue that Clowney is not on the clock.
 
I'd easily take Mack over Clowney. I'll give Clown the win on run defense overall, although he also over runs plays at times. But he also makes some serious splash plays in the run game. But in the modern NFL it's a pass league. I'll take the impact pass rusher and just ok run defender player over the impact run defender and just ok pass rusher.

Outside of play against the run, give me Mack on most of the other categories - much better and more consistent pass rusher, better health by far over his career, and stays on the field. Most important of all is that Mack is a much smarter, headier, and more disciplined player.

You can take it to the bank that Clowney will go completely brain dead in very key situations multiple times per year.

If he stays and they sign him to a LTC, I'm not going to cry in my soup. I'm not at the run him out of town on a rail mode...yet.... but my strong preference is to find a willing trade partner, and get something of value for him while he is still considered to be in his prime.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Yes..........unless you don't care about prolonging their careers.
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But i thought you said what they were doing was prolonging their careers?

CloakNNNdagger said:
The way Clowney and Watt have been used is directly related to their history of injuries and surgeries, especially the type of their injuries...............and in attempts to protect them from extending their injuries, and prolonging their careers.
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