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State of the O-line

justmy2cents said:
I agree with you on Hyatt. I thought he would come out last year. If you were to take him with one of our seconds, would you also consider taking Wisconsin ROT - David Edwards in latter part of first round ?
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If he was still on the board, it would be a no brainer but he's slated to be gone in early RD1. In my mind, Dalton Risner, Kansas State is my next big pick on the board. Risner would be a definitive answer at Center should Martin get injured or demand more money than he's worth when his contract comes up. I think the play of Lamm could buy the Texans another draft before they need to address the position.

I still think the best move the Texans could make come draft day, trade back in RD1, unless someone of need has slid down the board. I'd love to see the Texans get an extra RD3 or RD4 pick for the trade back so it would give them 5 picks in the first 4 rounds. Defensive talent is going to be strong in this draft and the Texans have questions at CB.

I'd be good if the Texans could land both Hyatt and Risner, 2- CB's and a RB in the first 4 rounds.....that would be huge.

I'd also be fine if the Texans signed Bell for an immediate answer at the RB position. Could be nice to have a Bell - Foreman rotation in the backfield. Bell, is going to have full season off and therefore no physical abuse to his body or injury to come back from. Most everyone told me I was crazy for insisting the Texans sign Peterson...I wasn't wrong and I'm pretty certain, Bell would pay off big time in Houston. I still wouldn't mind landing Karan Higdon, Michigan in the draft to round out a potentially explosive backfield. It could be like that old 3-headed monster Shula created in Miami when he had Csonka, Kiick and Morris.....see the similarity....Bell, Foreman and Higdon?

To have an improved OL, a deep running game, improving TE's, then one of the better QB's and possibly one of the best WR groups in the NFL when healthy......damn, this could exciting in a hurry!!!!
 
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Cajustie, LT West Virginia would be no brainer in first. Good feet, plus athlete who maintains base and plays with attitude. If off board would consider trading down for added draft fodder. But then again if it is a potential franchise QB prospect (Grier) would make them pay through the nose or just select him to develop behind Watson, and leverage for more draft fodder down road as well improve depth for immediate return.

Check out OSU vs West Virginia 2:30 this Saturday!
 
"Progress"

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Shishkabob said:
If it makes you feel better according to football outsiders metrics we have the 31st ranked pass pro line, and the 27th ranked run blocking line...
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But they're improving.

What I want to know is all of the posters that said lets see what this OL can do before we judge them think now? Or are they still living in denial?

My hopes for this season had nothing to do with playoffs/record etc.... My hopes were for Watson to stay healthy behind this OL and keep learning how to read defenses.

So far so good on the injury front and he's really improving on reading defenses. So I'm very happy with how the season is going.
 
steelbtexan said:
But they're improving.

What I want to know is all of the posters that said lets see what this OL can do before we judge them think now? Or are they still living in denial?

My hopes for this season had nothing to do with playoffs/record etc.... My hopes were for Watson to stay healthy behind this OL and keep learning how to read defenses.

So far so good on the injury front and he's really improving on reading defenses. So I'm very happy with how the season is going.
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Lol I was one of those posters, but mainly because I was trying to hope for the best and I knew it was an uphill battle trying to overhaul our line in 1 off season without a 1st and 2nd
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah, some expect us to field a top 10 offense with some of the worst o-line play in the league though.
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The fact that they're moving the ball between the 20's as well as they are tell's me BOB/Watson are doing a great job considering the 27/31st ranked OL.
 
steelbtexan said:
But they're improving.

What I want to know is all of the posters that said lets see what this OL can do before we judge them think now? Or are they still living in denial?

My hopes for this season had nothing to do with playoffs/record etc.... My hopes were for Watson to stay healthy behind this OL and keep learning how to read defenses.

So far so good on the injury front and he's really improving on reading defenses. So I'm very happy with how the season is going.
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Yes, they are definitely improving. I've got a lot of respect for them .... but I'm all too convinced that their ceiling is just too low.
 
How can I expect to watch football and post at the same time, if I can't even walk and chew gum at the same time ? What I said was .... Yes, they are definitely improving. I've got a lot of respect for them .... but, I am all too convinced that their ceiling is just too low .... something akin to a Blue situation.
 
justmy2cents said:
How can I expect to watch football and post at the same time, if I can't even walk and chew gum at the same time ? What I said was .... Yes, they are definitely improving. I've got a lot of respect for them .... but, I am all too convinced that their ceiling is just too low .... something akin to a Blue situation.
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This yrs Texans and Blue are a perfect comparison.

They're good enough, but you know they aren't special.
 
steelbtexan said:
But they're improving.

What I want to know is all of the posters that said lets see what this OL can do before we judge them think now? Or are they still living in denial?

My hopes for this season had nothing to do with playoffs/record etc.... My hopes were for Watson to stay healthy behind this OL and keep learning how to read defenses.

So far so good on the injury front and he's really improving on reading defenses. So I'm very happy with how the season is going.
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Kinda where i was as well. Knew they weren't gonna be a contender, but thought they could surprise a little & make the playoffs this year if Watson continued to grow into the player i thought he was coming out of Clemson.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If he was still on the board, it would be a no brainer but he's slated to be gone in early RD1. In my mind, Dalton Risner, Kansas State is my next big pick on the board. Risner would be a definitive answer at Center should Martin get injured or demand more money than he's worth when his contract comes up. I think the play of Lamm could buy the Texans another draft before they need to address the position.

I still think the best move the Texans could make come draft day, trade back in RD1, unless someone of need has slid down the board. I'd love to see the Texans get an extra RD3 or RD4 pick for the trade back so it would give them 5 picks in the first 4 rounds. Defensive talent is going to be strong in this draft and the Texans have questions at CB.

I'd be good if the Texans could land both Hyatt and Risner, 2- CB's and a RB in the first 4 rounds.....that would be huge.

I'd also be fine if the Texans signed Bell for an immediate answer at the RB position. Could be nice to have a Bell - Foreman rotation in the backfield. Bell, is going to have full season off and therefore no physical abuse to his body or injury to come back from. Most everyone told me I was crazy for insisting the Texans sign Peterson...I wasn't wrong and I'm pretty certain, Bell would pay off big time in Houston. I still wouldn't mind landing Karan Higdon, Michigan in the draft to round out a potentially explosive backfield. It could be like that old 3-headed monster Shula created in Miami when he had Csonka, Kiick and Morris.....see the similarity....Bell, Foreman and Higdon?

To have an improved OL, a deep running game, improving TE's, then one of the better QB's and possibly one of the best WR groups in the NFL when healthy......damn, this could exciting in a hurry!!!!
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Opto, you're getting just like me .... I'll take one of these, and one of these, and ooh, some of those, and oh, look, across the street .... a squirrel ! Seriously though, take a look at Shishkabob's charts again. That's nothing new ! We've got 3 picks in the top 60 players. We're never going to be a great team .... unless we summon the will power to build a line with talented linemen !
 
badboy said:
It will be interesting see who gets snaps this week. Some rest and some coming back should be great. I'm more concerned with play calling than players. Argh!
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I'm hoping to see Fulton at LG and Mancz at RG.

I can't believe the running game improvement wasn't down to Mancz playing RG, while Fulton probably is the best lineman we have, I think he has to try to move. Line play was greater than the sum of its parts when Mancz played RG.
 
Shishkabob said:
Yes our line has been pass blocking better, but we are also leaving tight ends, and RBs in to block a lot more often then we should have to.
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I thought BO'b did a good job against the Dolphins mixing up max protect vs not. Against Denver I didn't see a lot (may be bad memory). We did a lot more chipping though... probably every play.

Shishkabob said:
Funny you mention Griff, on one of Watson's sack, Griff actually did a good job blocking Chubb initially before leaking out as is the play design, Davenport clearly didn't know the play so Chubb got a straight line shot at Watson.
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That's possible. It's also possible Griffin wasn't supposed to leak out. Maybe he didn't know the play. Davenport was on the DE on the majority of the plays. Like Wade Phillips did, the DE opposite Von Miller played on to OT's outside shoulder.

It's also possible Griffen was supposed to release Chubb inside where Davenport could pick him up after passing off the DE.

Yes... could be possible that Davenport was supposed to slide under Chubb after he ran around Griffen... he did that successfully a couple of times.

I don't know what the break down was.

On that play I didn't assess blame to any one player. For all I know everyone did exactly what Watson barked out at the line... he might have screwed up.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I thought BO'b did a good job against the Dolphins mixing up max protect vs not. Against Denver I didn't see a lot (may be bad memory). We did a lot more chipping though... probably every play.



That's possible. It's also possible Griffin wasn't supposed to leak out. Maybe he didn't know the play. Davenport was on the DE on the majority of the plays. Like Wade Phillips did, the DE opposite Von Miller played on to OT's outside shoulder.

It's also possible Griffen was supposed to release Chubb inside where Davenport could pick him up after passing off the DE.

Yes... could be possible that Davenport was supposed to slide under Chubb after he ran around Griffen... he did that successfully a couple of times.

I don't know what the break down was.

On that play I didn't assess blame to any one player. For all I know everyone did exactly what Watson barked out at the line... he might have screwed up.
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All I know is Davenport has been involved in plays like this more than any other OL and if you dont know why do you even make a post like this. Tell you what watch Davenport and how he and the TE/RB chip and releaese into patterns 10-15 pass plays instead of watching the ball and get back to me with what you saw. This is what I do and we can have a discussion. Also check out how Davenport/Kelemte pass off stunts.

What I can tell you is Davenport has improved in the run game.
 
steelbtexan said:
All I know is Davenport has been involved in plays like this more than any other OL and if you dont know why do you even make a post like this. Tell you what watch Davenport and how he and the TE/RB chip and releaese into patterns 10-15 pass plays instead of watching the ball and get back to me with what you saw. This is what I do and we can have a discussion. Also check out how Davenport/Kelemte pass off stunts.

What I can tell you is Davenport has improved in the run game.
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But his one-on-one pass protection is pretty suspect, especially as pertains to his poor footwork. Coaching can only do so much for this problem. If anyone has ever watched "Dancing with the Stars," you will have seen some embarrassing performances.........and some by professional athletes (including NFL)...........after several months of practice with professional coaching............and they will still come out looking as if they were born with 2 left feet.
 
welsh texan said:
I'm hoping to see Fulton at LG and Mancz at RG.

I can't believe the running game improvement wasn't down to Mancz playing RG, while Fulton probably is the best lineman we have, I think he has to try to move. Line play was greater than the sum of its parts when Mancz played RG.
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I wanted Fulton to play LG from time he signed; next to D would have helped him and made left side much stronger. Add to that Mancz and Lamm with TE Thomas on side we would run would make offense much better.
 
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steelbtexan said:
But they're improving.

What I want to know is all of the posters that said lets see what this OL can do before we judge them think now? Or are they still living in denial?

My hopes for this season had nothing to do with playoffs/record etc.... My hopes were for Watson to stay healthy behind this OL and keep learning how to read defenses.

So far so good on the injury front and he's really improving on reading defenses. So I'm very happy with how the season is going.
Click to expand...

I definitely stated I would give the OL time before passing judgement. In my eyes, there are pieces in place that could make the OL even better in 2019 both from the starters to the depth chart. Of course, making that next step in success plausible will be what Gaine does in the draft and if he can land the right prospects to continue the growth.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's also possible Griffen was supposed to release Chubb inside where Davenport could pick him up after passing off the DE.

Yes... could be possible that Davenport was supposed to slide under Chubb after he ran around Griffen... he did that successfully a couple of times.

I don't know what the break down was.

On that play I didn't assess blame to any one player. For all I know everyone did exactly what Watson barked out at the line... he might have screwed up.
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Well if BOB thought a TE who is as poor at blocking as Griffin is should be 1 on 1 with a DE, then he should get fired on the spot lol. But judging by Davenport going inside having no one to block and essentially making us triple team their DT, I'm inclined to believe D just got the play wrong.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I definitely stated I would give the OL time before passing judgement. In my eyes, there are pieces in place that could make the OL even better in 2019 both from the starters to the depth chart. Of course, making that next step in success plausible will be what Gaine does in the draft and if he can land the right prospects to continue the growth.
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I think our interior of our line is fine, our tackles are still weak. Lamm has gotten better, but I still don't trust him in 1 on 1 situations and neither do the coaches for the most part
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I definitely stated I would give the OL time before passing judgement. In my eyes, there are pieces in place that could make the OL even better in 2019 both from the starters to the depth chart. Of course, making that next step in success plausible will be what Gaine does in the draft and if he can land the right prospects to continue the growth.
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Agreed, but how long before we can say these guys suck?
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, but how long before we can say these guys suck?
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The left side is still in question....if O'Brien and Devlin would pull their collective heads from one another arses, they would roll with C, Martin; RG, Mancz; RT, Lamm for the rest of the season. I would try Rankin at LG or at least let him split time with Kelemete. I think with Mancz and Lamm handling the right side.....this just may buy some time at RT. This would mean draft a RT in the 2020 and let Lamm and possibly Henderson (ST) handle the position in 2019.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
The left side is still in question....if O'Brien and Devlin would pull their collective heads from one another arses, they would roll with C, Martin; RG, Mancz; RT, Lamm for the rest of the season. I would try Rankin at LG or at least let him split time with Kelemete. I think with Mancz and Lamm handling the right side.....this just may buy some time at RT. This would mean draft a RT in the 2020 and let Lamm and possibly Henderson (ST) handle the position in 2019.
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Kelemente has been are best lineman over the last 3 or 4 games. Why does everyone here want him replaced?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The left side is still in question....if O'Brien and Devlin would pull their collective heads from one another arses, they would roll with C, Martin; RG, Mancz; RT, Lamm for the rest of the season. I would try Rankin at LG or at least let him split time with Kelemete. I think with Mancz and Lamm handling the right side.....this just may buy some time at RT. This would mean draft a RT in the 2020 and let Lamm and possibly Henderson (ST) handle the position in 2019.
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Martin has had a tough time holding back or pushing on, especially against decent NTs.........a definite residual of his history of 2 high ankle sprain/fractures. After such injuries, strength becomes an unavoidable chronic problem.
 
I don't subscribe to PFF, but from the postings on here, I too was under that impression.
CloakNNNdagger said:
Martin has had a tough time holding back or pushing on, especially against decent NTs.........a definite residual of his history of 2 high ankle sprain/fractures. After such injuries, strength becomes an unavoidable chronic problem.
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Wow, that's depressing .... he never looked very powerful or athletic to me !
 
Shishkabob said:
Well if BOB thought a TE who is as poor at blocking as Griffin is should be 1 on 1 with a DE, then he should get fired on the spot lol. But judging by Davenport going inside having no one to block and essentially making us triple team their DT, I'm inclined to believe D just got the play wrong.
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Maybe. I acknowledge the possibility. If it happened more than once I think it would be worth talking about. as it is.... eh!

If we're going to "give BO'b & Gaines a chance" I'm going to say let's see how their decision at LT works out. Personally I hope it works out to where we can take the BPA & let the draft come to us.

If he isn't any better at the end of the year & we have no choice but to slot our 1st round pick on a LT.... so be it.

But I'm much happier with Davenport at LT than Lamm at RT.
 
justmy2cents said:
I don't subscribe to PFF, but from the postings on here, I too was under that impression.

Wow, that's depressing .... he never looked very powerful or athletic to me !
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But yet he's the starting center for the Texans when we know Mancz is very capable of playing that position.

Oh wait that's Rick Smith's doing, not the coach.
 
steelbtexan said:
Colvin playing the slot could be a big upgrade.

Hopefully he's healthy that was a bad injury.
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while I agree I think we might see Kareem Jackson in slot with Colvin replacing Wright on outside opposite Joseph. Reid is playing well with Badger at safety. Hoping we have huge lead allowing some plays for back ups like Jamerson, Bademosi, Ejiofor, Kalambayi and Carlos Watkins who seems to have disappeared.
 
badboy said:
while I agree think we might see Kareem Jackson in slot with Colvin replacing Wright on outside opposite Joseph. Reid is playing well with Badger.
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Why Jackson has been playing great on the outside and Colvin has a history of playing much better in the slot.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Colvin playing the slot could be a big upgrade.

Hopefully he's healthy that was a bad injury.
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All Colvin has done since arriving here (besides being hurt) is get burned by receivers. I think Kareem will probably have to step in and fill that role as well.
 
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